Yet more misery for the Orams

Enchanted


Joined: 20/07/2008
Posts: 159

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 20:43

Just when the Oramses might have thought that their troubles were coming to an end, they have woken up to discover that the Greek Cypriots are up to their tricks again. E-mails from their lawyers have told them that they have at last agreed to lift the two charges on their English home now that all the outstanding legal fees have finally been paid.



But now they are applying for another charge because recent ‘rent’ hasn't been paid. It looks like there's going to be another High Court Application at the beginning of December. They want well over £1,000 for mesne profits (rent) from this May to November but will probably charge a disproportionate further £6,000+ for the charging order to go on. As their Lapta house cannot be demolished under TRNC law, presumably this ‘rent’ could go on indefinitely….



The 26 October was actually the 7th anniversary of the original serving of the writ. Haven’t they been through enough of this hell, without it being started up again? So much for the

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 20:58

Why dont they sell their home in England or get someone to put a charge on it or transfer ownership to another family member?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 21:17

where did this information come from? As far as I know they have moved out and are no longer trespassing.

Birdsong


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 21:39

Re: message no. 2.

The whole point of a charge is that you cannot sell, transfer ownership, do anything re a property. As soon as a check is made on the Land Registry which has to be done by law in UK it would show that a charge was in place and the GC would be informed. Two charges have been in place on the Orams' house since early in the year and you can bet the GCs lawyers won't apply to have the existing charges removed until the new one is in place.

During the 7 years the case has been going on the Orams have investigated every possible way to avoid the Gcs greedy demands but there is no way out. Greedy because over GB£2 million has been spent on this case over a piece of land worth only £6,000 in 2002.

Message no. 2

They have moved out, but the GC wants "rent" until the house is actually demolished and the land returned to him. As everyone should know, the TRNC have refused permission to demolish the property so the Orams are once again hostage to a political situation.

Enchanted


Joined: 20/07/2008
Posts: 159

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 21:46

Reply to #2, this information is direct from Linda, who is a good friend of ours.



It must be made known that this is how the GCs go on and it could very well be that if they eventually win on this one the floodgates will open and all the GCs will start applying for rent if they can't get their properties back. So please tell everyone that these are the facts.



There are also rumours circulating that the Oramses have been paid off handsomely, & also secretly given another property by the TRNC government. This is totally untrue, & is something being spread around (by estate agents trying to talk up the market???). Their nightmares continue….

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 22:10

Surely people were not naive enough to believe the rumour that the TRNC had given the Oram's another property?

Come on now, we all know they don't work like that.



If they had a decent bone in their body they would have given the Orams permission to demolish the property, knowing that not to do so, would result in even more cost and heartache for this family.



The GC's are doing this for publicity and to cause further damage to the property market. It's also a warning to others thinking of buying. Had the villa, which is absolutely of no use at all to the Orams, been demolished their agony would have been over now.



Enough is enough, pull it down and let this poor family have their lives back.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 22:23

You are right Bradus, the property should be pulled down so that they can move on in their lives.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 22:37

msg 6;



Talk is not cheap,it is free!!!

You think by demolishing their house will be the end of it?

They will then turn round and take every one of you with properties in EU to court for same thing.

......and then what???



Orams are just a number though I do feel for them and wouldn't like to be in their shoes,However,politics are politics and I can assure you that not one member of TRNC government or citizen is proud of what has happened to them.



I dont agree with Turkey still having 40.000+ troops here.It is WRONG.

GCs should not have been voted in to EU by other members.It is WRONG.

and against the agreements.

However,if we are to go by the prinsible of '2 wrongs do not make 1 wright'............perhaps it is time to wake up and smell the coffee........and ask your own EU member governments to clear up the mess they had made.

eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 22:46

Why doesnt the greek guy sell the house ?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 22:59

Enchanted (mess 5)



So maybe we can all join together, and form an orderly que! when the floodgates open! the Greek Cypriots are welcome to the rent on my ledge at Amaranta Valley! all our nightmares continue.. not just the Orams! it's been 7 years of hypocrisy for many victims from the TRNC Government, Estate agents, and so called Lawyers! and from the Orams Government backed Lawyer Mr & Mrs Vahib & Co., complete with Cherie Blair QC!



No1Doyen (mess 2)



"Why don't they sell their home in England"? could it be that maybe they don't want to live in such a corrupt country anymore? and would prefer their TRNC home given back, so they can live in peace in the UK?



Why on earth would anyone want to buy anything in CYPRUS, either side of the green line, from a home to an Investment to a hotdog? anyone with any sense wouldn't touch it with a bargepole! Just go on holiday, lap up the sun, and head home, there are many more places in the world to live and invest thats free from grief!

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
04/11/2010 23:08

my heart goes out to them and all the other victims, but what can we do here as you have all seen with the K5 saga, we feel powerless. I had customers in tonight who bought from santa fee, only to find out they have a mortgage on it. They like us are gutted and spent their holiday chasing up various departments, solicitors or advocates, they said they are going to walk away. Its sad as they also wanted to rent it out and have a tenant ready for 5 years. i told they to think very carefully and explain the situation to thetennant. beggars belief x

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 00:01

yorguzlo,





"They will then turn round and take every one of you with properties in EU to court for same thing"



Not strictly true, as unlike the Oram's all claims now go through the IPC.



Knock the property down or this will go through the courts, stir up more bad publicity. The Orams will lose their London home and for what?

Hatty


Joined: 13/07/2008
Posts: 260

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 01:18

Where does Mr Apostolides pay the tax on the rent due on the property? And for that matter the capital gains tax?

Enchanted


Joined: 20/07/2008
Posts: 159

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 06:28

Linda and David still hold the Kochan for their villa, and have in fact been told by Government that they can sell it!! (maybe a Russian might like to buy it). The Government won't take the villa from them, or knock it down because they would then be obliged to give them a replacement. Meanwhile their villa is being stripped bare of anything thats not screwed down!

It has become so serious for the Orams they have purchased a second hand camper van so they wont have to move in with their children should they are evicted.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 08:26

So, you can't get PTP for pre '74 Turkish title, and if you buy 'Esdeger' [which was never exchanged], you're liable, if the GC doesn't bother to claim through IPC, to be chased for rent through the court!



Many of us will be wondering, what does 'elko2' have to say about all this?



On the face of it, it seems fairly obvious that no foreigner can own 1 sq.mm of property in TRNC............

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 18:56

Enchanted,



Maybe a member of the government would like to buy it? As usual they talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Happy it would seem, to pass the problem on to someone else or just leave it with the Orams.



What an absolutely stupid statement from the government that they can sell it? It's more famous than Buckingham Palace! What good is the Kochan? Do they think Mr. A will have a change of heart? Sounds like its being semi-demolished anyway so demolish it, turn it back into scrub land and give it back to Mr. A. End of.



As yet there cannot be any further Oram type cases, as all now have to go through the IPC or wait for a settlement.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 19:20

am I being stupid but the Orams were convicted of trespass not buying the property, they can't own it as the owner never sold it to them.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 19:25

Good point, and who is topping Mr A taking possession of the property?

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 16:01

I would like to defend mr A against charges of "greed" (message 4)

...the bloke said himself his real motive is "political but with a small p"



of course he will never live in the place, so much is clear

while the ECHR has had it with being used for propaganda purposes

and has now delegated the property issue



best thing for those gc's very concerned with the cyprus "problem"

is a willingness to concentrate on finding a compromise on property,

rather than scoring propaganda points and blame-gaming



...oops, did I just state the obvious?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 16:13

re 19 andre514 . UTTER twaddle as per usual :(



Mr A's motive's aren't particularly relevant.. the point is that it is STILL his property and before the IPC he was pretty impotent to stop 'an authority' allowing it to be usurped...



Cases like his make it necessary for folk to NEVER forget that the CY prob isn't something that is someone else's problem..



Indeed when I hear folk showing the Orams' sympathy I still can't help wondering why in the next breath they regard the true owners of the land on which many of their houses were built on with such 'contempt'



As many are now learning buying a house ANYWHERE in CY is fraught with problems...



Andre514 - what you just don't seem to get is that the overall feeling of GCs is "WHY should we 'compromise' .. these are our homes - we have lots of legal precedent".



The passage of time since the event shouldn't be an 'excuse' to allow a wrong to be perpetrated.. and that goes back to '63

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 18:01

mark message 20:



you do me an injustice:

I have always accepted that the greek cypriot community have an arguable if unrealistic point of view

(and therefore may even be deserving of your obvious sympathy), in that sense mr A is playing his part



a basic problem is that there is no agreement on what is the overall cyprus problem!

property questions, the turkish army, security and freedom for the north, these are all candidates

...as a result it is pretty hopeless to imagine how the sides could settle for a compromise,

when neither can converge on what it is they are actually discussing



apportioning blame, right and wrong, for dangerous civilife that followed makarios binning

the power-sharing agreement he himself had signed in 1959, this is in the eye of the beholder



but I'd fully agree with your statement that buying property in cyprus is "fraught"

and that is why there are now more bargains than ever for the most shrewd investor

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 21:07

sorry as "I" am for the predicament the orams found themselves in,

a dispute clearly not of their making, yet they have shown great courage

...but without wanting to upset any reader, the problems of this or that expat couple

cannot in any way affect the overall future of divided cyprus



this is because the tourist or second-homes sector is a vital but not critical aspect

of the economic and political situation in north cyprus



so why all the effort in persuing this one case and persecuting the retired couple?



to "warn off" the uninitiated from north cyprus and also, in my personal opinion,

maintain a cosy fiction that one fine day all of the gc "claimants" return in glory



it is hardly for any of us to try to picture it for stranger things have happened



perhaps the stalemate will be broken when the two sides cook up a workable

compromise agreement or turkey is welcomed into the eu...



oops, now I really am writing twaddle!



andre

Blackbird



Joined: 11/08/2009
Posts: 1432

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 22:42

...Yes andre................I agree.......