Would we have been wiser buying in Turkey?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 23:08

Given the emnity between the TCs and GCs, would we have been more wise to buy our villas



on mainland Turkey, or a Greek Island. Prices are no more, and we would not have got



involved in The Cyprus Problem, and all that entails.



Do you feel that you were conned?



wyn

simma



Joined: 03/02/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 23:13

The jury is still out on that one wyn, i'll let you know when our villa is completed to a high standard and we have ptp and title deed. In for a long wait me thinks.

John.

puppylover



Joined: 05/05/2008
Posts: 1427

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 00:10

Wyn......conned by who?



The history of the Island has been known for 45 odd years.

Surely anyone who did their homework before buying would have known the pit falls.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 00:20

Just my opinion.

The enmity will only affect us once/if reunification takes place ,and even then it will take time before the GC's try to take full control again,so I envisage a luv in until that becomes apparent.I dont think there will much trouble as the power shift will be enforced economically and behind the scenes till its a fait accomplis.

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 00:20

I agree. I went in with my eyes open having taken an opinion on the situation myself. No, I was not conned. If it all goes wrong then I only have myself to blame. However I don't think anything is going to go wrong. (fingers crossed)

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 00:40

Had we have known of the politics, and the depth of the emnity, We would have bought elsewhere.



Naive? We were told that we were buying on land that had been exchanged with people living in the South. The Estate Agents told us confirmed by the builder. We later confirmed that with our Lawyer.We were on holiday!



In retrospect we should have investigated further, but who do you ask?



Conned? Only time will tell,as will by whom!



wyn



wyn

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 01:05

Wyn, And other interested Parties.



I honestly believe |Like I Predict the rain accuarately in TRNC| That a Solution Not REUNIFICATION will be accomplished very soon before this Year is out!!!



Like many of my Postings if you can read back......that far......Boycotting and agreeing to Disagree is not going to happen.



The news on Cyprus radio I heard yesterday WAS very Positive with regards the Talks between the 2 Presidents!



There will be a set of leadership sharing and Government ruling between the North and the South but I do not honestly think a full reunification.



Trade embargos, Ports direct flights etc will be lifted and open up the TRNC but with strict conditions still. It is only a small place and needs to be PROTECTED at every angle for all People ETC.



nunu

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 01:41

Wyn: "Naive? We were told that we were buying on land that had been exchanged with people living in the South. The Estate Agents told us confirmed by the builder. We later confirmed that with our Lawyer. We were on holiday!"



So you did no research on north Cyprus and believed the very people whose word should never be trusted? You should have gone to Butlins.



Wyn: "In retrospect we should have investigated further, but who do you ask?"



If you need to be told that, then Butlins is probably too big a challenge.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 10:20

Pikey,



For the avoidance of doubt, we don't do Butlins or Ann Summers, but we have no problem with people that do!



wyn

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 10:23

As regards unification, ask yourself why the Greeks want it.

It won't lift any embargoes on them - there aren't any.

It won't give them freedom to trade - they've already got it.

It won't give them direct flights - they've already got them.

It won't give them full EU membership and access to loads of EU money - they already have it.

In fact everything the TC's will get, the GC's already have. So what do they really want?

TR army out. Settlers out. Land/property back. Everything else they already have, so why would they settle for less? The only ace TR and TC's have is access to TR ports which GC's desperately want.

Sorry to go off-thread.

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 11:03

Wyn - am I correct in thinking you decided to buy a property whilst you were on holiday in TRNC,that you did no research, read no books on the history of Cyprus (from both sides)? Reminds me of a conversation I overheard whilst in a restaurant there some years ago. Two families having lunch; neither of them had ever visited NC before, but between them had bought two houses, the decision reached whilst they were on holiday, because "the weather's nice and the houses are cheap". It never ceases to amaze me that people buy property whilst they're on holiday! Go for a couple of weeks of sun and relaxation and come back with a house! Likewise, those who have retired there (some years previously) and now complain that things have gone up, with the consequence that their pensions, etc. do not cover living expenses. What did those people expect - that everything was going to stand still? Prices go up everywhere. Yes - perhaps you would have been better buying elsewhere - who knows?

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 11:08

Sorry - ran out of space. However, do you not think that in a lot of cases a little bit of research could have saved an awful lot of heartache. By the way, I am speaking as someone who has been visiting TRNC for 18 years. We have a holiday home there and so, after having lecturing people, we could still be in the same boat as many, but at least we went into it with eyes wide open!

Hope all works out well for all who are now in the buying process - good luck!

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 11:28

Wyn



For what its worth I think the Greek property system is even more of a mess than here with no proper central title registry and in some case titles may even be in Ottoman Turkish (old Turkish in arabic script) which you would need to get a historical language expert to translate.



I also read in the Cyprus Mail that even former ROC president Clerides couldn't get the title to a property he bought many years before there.



As for Turkey I supect there would be plenty of traps as well plus lots of dodgy building which showed up when they had the Earthquakes in 2000 when many properties built entirely for locals collapsed and didn't have proper foundations etc.



Most of the regions property systems and consumer propections seem like something out of the dark ages so whilst you don't have the same title issues as TRNC there are many others that could even be worse.



Aussie

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 11:37

Aussie



Your posts are always excellent. You convey some very useful facts and I have never heard you criticise another member. You are very disciplined. Just my observation

eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 12:08

Went to nc with the view of buying, but after looking at the situation and talking to everyone decided it was a big risk. Bought a lovely appartment on the Bodrum penninsular instead, very happy.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 12:09

TRNCVaughan ,message 10

Spot on

Thats why re-unification is an only option for the south,otherwise they will not have the control that will enable them to implement what you have mentioned.I dont think though, that much adverse will happen for a while after ,certainly not until the Turkish Army has left.

There is a chance the north will negotiate to maintain the identity that attracted us, but only if the govt and voters 'beware of greeks bearing gifts' .

OR remember that" if you marry for money you end up earning it





As for buying , we wanted to buy and spend our later lives in trnc,we knew the problems and obviously concerned, but the only choice was not live there at all or take the chance .If we had waited we could have ended up waiting for never never land.".



The Wicks.

We bought on hols, after research and previous hols.

When else would you buy? On a visit to Asda!

We werent naive, stupid, just thought the place was worth the gamble.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 12:25

today we had to visit the british high comission in the south. on a totally unrelated matter.

a gc receptionist told us we will have problems with our property in the north.

when we produced the copy of the kochan we had taken with us, she claimed she couldn't read it. so we explained what it said. she shut up and vanished. all because she had it wrong! (pre 74 turkish title. ) clearly she didn't want to loose face!



so wyn you could have gone to the british high commission for good advice !

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 12:45

To be fair fire starter, wouldn't that have been a natural thing for a GC receptionist at the British High Commission to say?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 12:57

The Wicks,



Thank you for your good wishes.



I would like to say, that we were bought up, to rely on Lawyers for advise on such



transactions.



As to reading books on Cyprus, I did not, nor do I know anyone else that, read up on the



history of England prior to buying our house in the UK.



We bought on impulse having just enjoyed a lovely holiday, with retirement approaching,



we just sought a bolthole in the sun, in which to enjoy part of our retirement, with our



family.



wyn

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 12:59

no, i think she should have her facts correct before making judgements on people.



i know loads of gc's who respect people who have pre 74 turkish title. they don't have a problem with me or that i live in the north.



i just took it that she was a brainwashed racist!



with the job she is in, she should have known better. all she wanted us to do was to see her guy who deals with the property things there. i didn't need to.



we were there for a different reason. the roc land office doesn't have a problem with our title deed why should she?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 13:07

i just took it that she was a brainwashed racist!............



What else?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 13:33

i expected more from an employee of the british high commision!

OLDGIRL



Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 118

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 14:45

Come on lads cheer up,I love my little place in the north by the mountains,the food is more than organic the wine is good, (I often have too much).

Ok we pay through the nose for a few things but the sunshine makes up for that.

Guess what I am sat in a stuffy office in the uk looking forward to our next stay

so stop moaning you lot you are in the sunshine.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 14:53

Wyn,



You are in it for the long haul now mate.



Cheer up and think of your next visit to NC.

T.

aripointer


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 14:59

Wyn.

Just a little bit more brainwashing from our local MP? Our reply follows.



NIGEL WATERSON MP

EASTBOURNE

SHADOW PENSIONS MINISTER

SHADOW MINISTER FOR OLDER PEOPLE





__________________________________NIGEL VISITS CYPRUS. _________________________________



Local MP Nigel Waterson has just returned from a short visit to Cyprus. Nigel has long taken an interest in the island and is an officer of the British-Cyprus group at Westminster.



Nigel commented: “I went to Cyprus primarily for the Morphou Rally as a guest of the Municipality of Morphou. Each year the displaced citizens of Morphou and their descendants organise a rally and a march to the ‘Green Line’ which divides the island, to demand a return to their homeland. It was a profoundly moving occasion for me.”



“I was also able to meet local politicians and hear more about the new talks which have begun between the President of the Republic Mr. Christofias and the leader of the Turkish Cypriots. Let us all

aripointer


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 15:05

Our response.



Dear Mr Waterson,



Dear Mr Waterson,







Do you ever visit Lefkosa, Girne or Gazi Magusa in the TRNC to hear North Cypriot views of the current situation? It is clear all parties on this tragic island wish for a satisfactory resolution, but there are two sides to the story. Is ‘Friends of Cyprus’ a Greek-Cypriot sponsored pressure group? It seems to yield little representation from the other community. Do the Greek Cypriots believe they had absolutely no responsibility for circumstances which helped trigger the 1974 denouement? The term ‘invasion’ is described by many as an intervention to halt Greek ethnic cleansing of Turkish communities. I am sure you must have Turkish Cypriot constituents in Eastbourne. It would be good to hear their views. People on the island – both sides of the border – consider themselves Cypriot first and Greek or Turk second. Most seem anxious to see a return to a united island with fair parliamentary representation for both communities

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 15:36

Does nobody have a plan B?

The whole thing about life is planning, It does not matter what you do for the present there is always going to be something that upsets your future. Why just buy a property in the TRNC and leave it at that. We have a plan 'B' and also a plan 'C'. If you get fooled into a false sense of security then you will suffer. You have to adopt a different mental attitude. There really is no point in thinking 'thats it I am here in the TRNC and I am sorted'.

Think about it!

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 21:12

Wyn, when my wife posted in reply to your original post she was not being obtuse about people doing research. Remember, when you buy a property in England you actually speak the language (unless you speak Turkish, in which case I apologise). Before we decided to buy in the TRNC we visited in November, January, April as well as all the summer months. Hope all turns out well for you.



Girne29 . No, we do not think you go to Asda to buy property & I don't think naive or stupid was mentioned. Indeed, you say that you visited several times and did research, as did we. We also took a gamble but as Jack so wisely puts it, if this move is plan A,B, & possibly C and it all goes wrong then no-one has anyone else to blame but themselves.

P of P & J

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 21:26

The Wicks,



Point noted.



My view, see "Would you buy again now?"



Cheers,



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 21:27

sorry ...That should read..."Would you sell now?



wyn

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 23:39

Wyn,

Hang on in there matey leave the worrying to me my friend its a mine field out there but i have you covered.Would i sell now, answer NO,

Paul.

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 15:10

wyn



So how much 'safer' is it to buy in the UK with our wonderful legal system??



You see a property. The agent gives you the vendors HIP and the EPC, giving all details of ownership, Planning Permissions, Title, Searches, energy efficiency, etc. Your Solicitor accepts them as they are 'Government' approved criteria.



You buy.... Later to find out the vendor has been repossesed or remortgaged, there is an Asylum Hostel or tower block being built in front of you,.. etc.



Our Government allows HIP's to be valid for up to 6 months , during which time much can change.



Nowhere is 100% safe. There are enless horror stories of purchasers in the UK, France, Spain, Italy, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey, etc, finding themselves in a nightmare.



If you buy in the UK you should obviously have read the Magna Carta, Hansard vols. 21 to 98-2008 all 15,574 pages and referenced the 'Doomesday Book' for ownership!





Would I sell my NC property now?



A most definite NO!





rob

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 15:19

ROBnJO,



Quite!



wyn

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 15:28

Ilovecyprus



Thanks for your kind comments (post 14).



I always enjoy a bit of Irony and find it interesting looking at the various contradictions that occur both here and all over the world between what people and countries profess they believe in and do, verses what they actually do and what happens.



I think is fascinating that in this advanced age of the internet and communications etc that so many countries and systems such as property are based on a mess of old and unclear laws traditions and inadequate systems with little attempt to update them.



I also think everyone has their own beliefs and views and there is nothing to be gained by personally atacking anyone even if it seems justified.



Maybe we get together for a beer etc next time you are out here.





Aussie

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 15:38

I would like that Aussie



Sounds good to me. I will definately let you know when I am next out



Mark

mitsi


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 345

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 18:06

Wyn, we think about buying in Turkey because it is such a beautiful country and has everything, history, culture, riversm snow capped mountains, valleys and water in abundance. However the government are not issuing deeds for the foreseeable future and many laws are similar to here. Driving is a nightmare too. At the end of the day if you like where you are that's it.

Happiness is loving where you live. Nowhere is without problems and some UK builds are an utter disgrace since the boom and cowboys moved in. Building on flood plains etc; Shoddy builds, cutting corners, cutting costs always at the expense of the buyers.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 20:17

Mitsi,



I wholly concur with what you say.



Where in the world can anyone go to escape the selfish reach, and greed of the of our leaders.



Meanwhile we have to sit quietly and what the value of our savings, pensions, houses drift away by the day. Throw in the possibility of unemployment and the fact that people are loosing their houses on a daily basis, and you have a basis for a logical conclusion.



Large amount of Efes served in iced glasses at 4 Ytl per pint, in the hot sunshine. Enjoy your life in the TRNC. Gordon Brown could be directing your future.!



Cheers,



wyn

simma



Joined: 03/02/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
17/10/2008 00:22

Wyn, all of us that have purchased in trnc are in the same boat. It doesn't matter what title deed or when we purchased or when our property will be complete or what issues we have with our builders. We purchased because we love the place and the people or we considered it a good investment. It will all come good mate. Keep your chin up and forget about the Turkey thing. TRNC was always a better choice.

John.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
17/10/2008 00:37

John,



I totally agree with your view.I am quite relaxed. I would not however have bought had I had known the depth of emnity that exists between TCs and GCs.



Much has been said on this B/B but my only direct experience was when we flew into Larnaca and I asked Information at the airport, if they could help me with the telephone number for my hotel in The TRNC, I was totally ignored. Similarly when I sought a taxi.



Wholly unnescessary but most unpleasant just the same .I am British not TC!



As for deeds etc, only time will tell.



The Efes is really good though!



wyn

simma



Joined: 03/02/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
17/10/2008 00:49

John, the same happened to me mate when we were there in June. Our flight was redirected to Paphos and when I asked for help to get to Girne I was treat like a "numpty". Most of the guys I know that live over there have a good laugh winding the gc's up. I'm not sure if it's the way I would go but I definately think British humour can overcome any situation no matter how we are treat. I'm going over next week so if the Efes isn't up to scratch I'll sell up lol.

John.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
17/10/2008 00:52

John, Have a good trip. I wish I was coming with you!



Good luck with the snagging.



My regards all round!



Cheers mate,



John

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
24/10/2008 17:46

anyone buying in another country should do there home work before they buy if not then they are a complete fool...and can only blame themselfs. not the builder not the lawyer and not the estaeagent,

would you buy a house in iraq or afganistan.....?

RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
24/10/2008 18:22

if i could rent it out to students i`d have a go...