Will we lose our Villas?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 19:52

As many will know, I have somewhat strong views over the Cyprus Problem.



Pikey, preaches that those of us that bought in good faith, on exchange land, risk loosing our



villas. Pikey says there is no such thing, as good faith! in the TRNC!



How many..........



1 Think he is right?



2 Think maybe we will have to pay again for our land?



3 Think we will be thrown out of our villas, and watch them demolished



4 Think Exchange land option will be ratified, and we will have our Kochans Internationally



recognised.



5 Think Pikeys thoughts have real validity, and we should take the honourable way out?



wyn

Tatlisu4me


Joined: 26/01/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 20:01

Untill a decision is made by the powers that be, it is all guesswork.

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 20:19

Everybody should read the Annan Plan,although not accepted if there is a resolution to this situation the international community is sure to use it as the basis for the solution rather than do years of ground work all over again. In it many of us would have to pay compensation, in my own case £3000/£4000 not the end of the world when you consider how much the value of my flat would increase by overnight. Before anyone points out the obvious and says these amounts are small and this is why the Greeks did not accept remember there are 40 flats on my development this is £120000/£160000 for a piece of land the Greek owner had written off as hopeless cause. The Plan is fair to all and recognises all sides of the divide and it is a travesty that it was not accepted by all. Let us all hope that there will be another opportunity to revisit this issue. Cyprus is a small enough island with out dividing it and its people.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 20:19

Just enjoy things while we can , life is to short , however maybe we would have to pay compensation even though we were all sold in good faith .

MaggieAndBernie



Joined: 26/07/2008
Posts: 2012

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 20:29

Hear hear Pipie!, Wyn don't let worrying about what may or may not happen in the future spoil your enjoyment of living on this beautiful island, Like I said on the smoking thread - one could be run over by a truck tomorrow.

Personally I think Pikey is totally wrong and scaremongering - You are right, if a property is bought in good faith and the price paid (all under the guidance of a T.R.N.C. Advocate) I cannot imagine anyone being able to throw you out of it. But I'm sure any decision/settlement is a long way off yet so why not relax and enjoy the sun (and the efes!)

Maggie

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 20:33

Bernie,



Non smoker myself, but have another fag! I could'nt agree more!



Bring back flogging I say!



Cheers,



wyn

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 20:42

compensation, as per the Annan plan of 2004 is unlikely to proceed as a viable option to settle. The United Nations and more importantly the EU do indeed need to see resolution. The Island needs to see reolution. The Cypriot people need a resolution.

So what will happen. The EU are to become more involved in brokering a deal. South Island is a member. The North needs the same status so that the Union then has an Eastern mediteranean strategic and unified member.

The EU need to provide significant funds to the Island as a whole in order to provide financial incentive to agreived parties. Money will settle the vast majority of land claims and issues. Certainly, it will not be the case that mass evictions and demolishment will take place. Anarchy and an economic castastrophy is not an option and would vetoed by the UN and EU.

Ther is a clear advancment in talks between both egimes since 2004. Latest talks on 8th October 2008 are encouraging to a solution.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 20:45

WAZ -24-7.



An interesting take on the situation!



wyn

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 20:51

Wyn ...There is absolutely no point in giving your self an ulcer worriyng what is going to happen in the futureIf you or any of the others can predict that can you let me no what the lottery numbers are for this week end are.As Pipie says enjoy it for as long as you can because you never know they may take into consideration every body who has bought property there and I dont htink they will want to loose that sort of money in the future..So heres hoping for you and every body else it turns out ok...

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 20:51

continued...



Come EU member states. Stump up some significant cash. Bring it to the table and negotiate compensation linked to a reunification ( ie removal of borders) recognition of all comunities. Economic development. EU membership of the Island as a Cypriot Republic. et al.



How much money? Well what price for human rights, harmony and a unified single and national community without the neede of UN peace keeping forces and the ever present military presence of two fueding factions.

£500 million should do it. Phased in, in conjunction with specific objectives, aspirations and targets. Let negotiation begin.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 20:59

karakum5c,



I have a copy of the Annan Plan by the side of my seat. I wholly agree with you.



IF there is to be a settlement, it is inconcievable in my opinion, that that they will try and



rework the property issues again. These issues took years to formulate what the International



community, deemed to be fair and equitable. It is my view that in respect of the immovable



property issues, a settlement will be agreed broadly around that formula.



My view, that is all,



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:09

Coachie,



I raise my glass, to your good health. Could I have a glass of what you are drinking? It



seems to be a lot better than mine!



wyn

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:11

Wyn,

Stop worrying mate and being so pessimistic.If you are on exchange land you will probably have to pay a percentage of the worth.Thats todays ruling (i think) who knows what it will be tommorrow.Be more optimistic like me lol,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:14

Newlad,



I would sooner wager my UK house, on Hull City winning their next three matches!



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:15

Dodger,



I think you lot drugged the Baggies!



wynyardman

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:21

Wyn,

There at the theater of dreams on Saturday so dont waste your money.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:33

Wyn..Not even had one yet but if I do it will only be a glass of three of red wine,just trying to be realistic.Live for today is my motto wyn let tomorrow look after itsself......

lovelife


Joined: 07/07/2007
Posts: 231

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:36

The pessimistic and cynic in me tells me that we will end up paying compensation, if they agree along the guidelines regarding property as set in the Annan Plan, I feel the respective governments (TRNC/Turkey) will not pay out and I feel it will be more than the 4-5K that we were told by our 'honest' estate agents et al, we thought long and hard about buying our plot and decided that we would have to shoulder the responsibility and deal with the consequences should a stettlement be reached.

LL

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:39

Coachie,

Ill drink to that.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:46

Newlad,



You and Coachie are plonkies! Don't let Pikey know! The refuge of the pessimistic!



wyn

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:47

Newlad ..Cheers...Life is too short without worry about what is or is not going to happen.Sod all you can do about it if it goes the wrong way for you.Like I said in another post its there island not yours and what will be will be...

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:47

Wyn,

It was pikey that sent me the drink lol.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:51

Wyn ..Didnt think you thought i was apessimist.I only wear abelt. not belt and braces!!!!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:56

Coachie,



I have no fixed views. I like people that enjoy life and attack it head on. in a positive vein.



It was your photograph, that did it for me.



wyn

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 21:57

Coachie,

I think Wyn has been at the three legged donkeys food and er indoors medication.He needs a good rub down with a sports mail to knock him back into kilter,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 22:09

Paul,



We can only tell you guys, the right way. It is up to you lads whether you wish to listen!



wyn



(and some fell on stoney ground)

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 22:12

Wyn,

I always listen to you matey you know that,

Paul.

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
30/10/2008 23:23

Lovelife, I agree with your take on this matter.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 04:17

wyn,



have to agree with pike on exchange land but from a different viewpoint

I am sure you bought in good faith and the last thing you did

was to deprive anyone else since "they" couldn't live there anyway

but the south and the supporters they have garnered internationally do not

officially recognise this trnc-inspired exchange process



there are however two omnipresent factors:



firstly you enjoy local as well as de-facto recognition of your property rights,

for example in the remote possibility of an amicable agreement

between the two sides you may garner a formally official status...

I think this may be implicit in the 2004 peace plan

since no mass exchange of population was really anticipated



secondly the rights and wrongs of the whole cyprus business 1878 to 1974

are subject to heated debate and bitter recrimination between those involved

and so many wrongs done by all and sundry

that it is suspicious if anyone sets themself up as moral arbitrator



andre

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 05:52

Andre "wrongs of the whole cyprus business 1878 to 1974 are subject to heated debate and bitter recrimination between those involved and so many wrongs done by all and sundry"



Andre, you are right that this situation is extant as some of the people in power may still have blood on their hands... Certainly so from the period 1963 - 1974...



But time - the Great Healer, which catches up with us all in the end, will obviously move these power-brokers aside and then perhaps the younger generations of the two major communities can set these polarised postures behind them and take a more informed and inclusive stance on their island...



They don't seem able to do this currently probably because the soul-searching is simply too painful for them.. It's particularly hard when their leaders and teachers have been culpable in the deliberate mis-interpretation of their history. how can they now come clean?



Maybe they're going to need a Truth and Reconciliation Committee

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 08:57

When we bought here we had read all the info available and were fully aware that at some future date there may be a problem with compensaton or whatever.



Anybody who bought after 2004 should have been aware of this as even the estate agents had links to some of this information, in the small print obviously but it was there.



I therefore agree that there is merit in what Pikey says. However, I believe that to sort this on any individual basis if an agreement is reached I think many of us will have moved onto a different plane.



As others have said, Wyn - STOP WORRYING. You and I have no control over this. Right now I am more concerned cos some toe rag, probably British cos Cypriots do not do bike riding, has stolen our mountain bikes. Plus they would be so noticable in a village!!!!!!!!!!!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 09:26

CIH,



Can I make one thing clear. I am not worried!



I am deeply resentful that I have been put in a position that is outwith our control, and as the human condition dictates,we find ourselves in a period of uncertainty.



I do accept that with research, I would not have bought in the TRNC at this point in time.



We were bought up in an envoiroment where you can trust solicitors to look after your interests, in these circumstances. In retrospect we were hoodwinked with phrases such as Exchange Land, Laws based on British legal system , A government and a builder that entered a written contract that stated that they had the legal rights to the land, and therefore the right to sell it to us.



ieIn retrospect, a concerted effort appears to have been made to defraud us,



I am angry That Pikey is allowed to accuse, on a public forum, people who bought in good faith.of being in receipt of "stolen land", of knowingly acting in bad faith,and without morals,

despite their protes

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 09:36

protestations.



I believe that he was wrong, and the moderators of that forum should have intervened.



I believe that there will be a bizonal agreement to settle the Cyprus Problem and the Exchange

Land principle will be ratified.



There, that is how we see this most unfortunte debacle. We still see the TRNC as a lovely place to own a home in which to enjoy part of our declining years.



Finally if I am deeply worried about anything it is the way This UK Labour Government is

trying to get us through The Credit Crunch by spend, spend spend,(usually to save their own knecks and the unworthy) and the fact I will probably not live long enough to pay back the debts they are taking on, and therefore mortgaging my Grandchilds future,



My views, that is all,



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 09:47

Andre, Groucho,



You make very interesting observations in your postings!



wyn



CIH,



I hope that you soon recover your mountain bikes........far better hobby than mounting sheep!

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 09:47

I do not agree with anyone who says we should have known us buyers may have been faced with problems .

When you pay a solicitor to guide you , you automaticly assume that they are right this is what i assumed , otherwise why do they act for you .

It is only after paying them and a few years down the line you find out this is not so , now this is not us buyers fault .

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 09:51

Also if we were all to be turned out of our homes in TRNC , could you see how the economy would suffer , already there are signs of a less spend by us owners , and who would be there be left to tax , cause again at present we are the only ones who are taxed left right and centre .

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 09:57

Pipie,



Caveat Emptor........unfortunatley the information was available if we had researched properly.



The advocate (another con, they are not solicitors) position appears indefensible, but do you fancy taking one to Court in The TRNC?



Theres always a glass of Ice Cold Efes or two!



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 10:12

Suzanne,



I hope you shaved off your moustache before typing this"



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 11:30

Suz,



Waxed moustache?



wyn

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 11:53

wyn

whats done is done, you will just have to wait and see.



the annan plan was rejected by the gc's so i don't think that any settlement will involve it.



do you know any gc's on a personaly level?



have you ever listened to what they have to say or how they feel?



how would you feel if your land was taken from you and sold to someone else?



would you not want it back?



i think you should start seeing things from bothsides, and hope that someone will

step in and save the day, for your sake.



sorry but i'm with pike on this one!

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 11:59

Wynn .. and whats in that bottle on your photo then holy water!!!!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 14:06

Firestarter,



I hope that I make it very clear in my postings that I see both points of view.



I have consistently argued in favour of an end to the emnity, and a mutually acceptable

solution to the problem. What I am opposed to is one sided propaganda that feeds the emnity.



As I have said many times, I accepted the assurrances of my professional advisers that Exchange land, was just that, and I paid the asking price.



I do know some GCs in the UK. I find there arguments, lack balance.



Again I hope maters can be settled to the mutual satisfaction, of both sides.



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 14:27

Coachie,



Don't start this again! I thought that it was beer but apparently the beer is spelt with one "F".



It tasted divine though!



wyn

aripointer


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 15:31

Wyn

In response to your concerns. Message 32



We carried out copious research in Northern Cyprus for some twenty years. In the interim we looked at buying in Spain each week the price of the property/land went up. At the time we were dealing with an English architect who was holding our hand. Hence Spain went on the back burner.



We now have a very nice house in the TRNC. The house was finished two months ahead of schedule in 2005.Electricity and water was connected before we moved in so we were quite pleased.



We have had problems with the builder but not insurmountable…it tests your ability to resolve the problems in a constructive manner. One thing we have found is the real Turkish Cypriots are a very proud group of people. The tradesmen we have employed have been very good indeed although slow at times.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 15:45

aripointer,



Very nice to hear about your positive experience.



Our villa is nearing completion, late of course, but excellent tradesmen, and quality build.

If only they realised the importance of effective communication!

The Turkish people we have been involved with are excellent and very friendly!



As Bradus once advised on this board. I will refrain from unconditional praise until all

mains services are connected, and we have our Kocan!





I remain quietly optomistic in respect of the property aspect of The Cyprus Problem negotiations.



wyn

aripointer


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 15:49

Cont 2

Yes we were told about the legal system in the TRNC etc.It is my view until Mr Robb and his band of merry men are shipped out we are fair game to the TRNC building industry. I am sure the builders thought if Mr Robb can do it to Brits "so can we". After all he is one of us... so we are all fair game.



I am not worried about the exchange land problem nor should others. The EU and UN have already put aside the compensation money (if needed) for both sides. The money will be part of the reunification settlement in whatever format all parties decide on. Don't worry you will not have to pay for your land again.



Like you we still have a home in the UK. Mr Brown takes our money by stealth and lies.Our greatest concern is....not knowing what extra taxes he is going to burden us with in the future to get us out of the mire he has put the country in.

aripointer


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 15:55

Cont 3



The goverment in the TRNC at least controls petrol and utility prices to some degree whereas in the UK it is a free for all, with very little concern for the residents on fixed incomes.



To conclude Mr Brown is pleased Mr Robb is in the TRNC. He would not tollerate having two robbers on the same patch.



Ends

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 16:14

wyn



have you or anyone else ever met a greek cypriot who exchanged his land with a turkish cypriot in the north?

(i remember one gc guy trying to sell his land and he was having problems

but apart from him which was a sale not an exchange)

come on you know the answer to this . they didn't exchange anything.

where is the trnc guarenty on exchange land written? who has seen a copy?



this issue is just going around in circles and there will be no answers until a final solution with the cyprus talks.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 16:26

Has anybody downloaded the CEPS report? I have only just started to read it. It's facinating



*Only 13% of the GC population believe that a solution should be based on the Annan plan. 60% strongly oppose the use of the plan



*63% of GC's and 66% of TC's would find it intolerable if they had to live on their own side of the island should reunification take place



*91% of GC's and 42% of TC's believe that the property issue should be resolved through restitution, so that affected individuals will regain control of their properties as they had them before the events of the Cyprus problem

markvpiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 17:11

There seems to be some inaccuracies posted as regards compensation terms set out in the AP



The formula was 1974 price + interest, the last time I calculated it, I think this equates to original price x 8



So, a block of 12 flats is built on a 2 donum piece of grazing land worth £50 per donum in 1974

£100 x 8 = £800 /12 £66.66 each



Those who bought ex-GC houses would obviously be in for a far bigger bill.



Mark

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 17:56

Firestarter,



Do not misinterpret what I have said. I was told by the Estate Agent and advocate that it was exchange land. I accepted their assurrance as to the validity, and I paid a full and fair price for the land and villa that was constructed on it.



I signed a contract that stated the land belonged to my builder, and he had a legal right to sell it. I paid stamp duty on the purchase to The Government of The TRNC (a legal demand) and a charge in my favour was registered with the land registry.



I paid my advocate who claimed to have been a Barrister of Law in the UK a very full price

for his professional services.



The land in question was undeveloped scrub land in Esentepe, and it is a small plot.



You are clearly seeking to argue and accuse someone of wrongdoing .I suggest you look elsewhere! It strikes me that I am as much a victim as anyone in this debacle!



I am happy for the matter to be resolved by mutual agreement, and I hope justice prevails for all concern

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 18:01

ilovecyprus



*91% of GC's and 42% of TC's believe that the property issue should be resolved through restitution, so that affected individuals will regain control of their properties as they had them before the events of the Cyprus problem"



Do you think that there will have to be some sort of population movement control.?

Kyrenia was mainly G.C. any form of bi-zonal govt would be useless if Greeks returned en masse to their land and property and TCs moved down to Paphos.

Would have a situation as in the sixties, with small pockets all over the place.



If in an apartment block of six, 3 owned by TC's and 3 owned by foreigners, GC's suddenly found themselves owners of the 3 vacated by the foreigners,would not slow assimilation be required of 3 TC families into that block to prevent trouble between the two brought together so quickly after so long apart.

Unlike in the past TC and GC will be living in very close proximity



Some sort of counselling might be needed .

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 19:28

Hi Girne 29



I have not read all of the report, it's a big read. What I sometimes find that statistics (like the property issue) sometimes get contradicted or annulled by other points , so as I read through the report, that might indeed be the case.



I think there can also be a big difference berween what people say and do in polls, also the difference between what is practical and what is just a dream but nevertheless I would never had guessed that such a large number of people, particularly GC's want to move. This has really surprised me. (Saying that I am not yet sure how they polled displaced and non displaced people)



That's a big operation to move so many people. It's got to be staged and would have to happen over an extended period of time. There would be lots of considerations i.e. employment, infrasrtucture etc. Yes, probably counselling and education. All your points Girne 29 are valid.



If the proposed solution is such that large numbrs can't move then there are

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 19:29

girne29,



Mammon comes readily to mind!



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 19:33

girne29,



Given that I paid a full price for my plot, and that it was exchange land, can someone please identify my plot of land in the "SOUTH" so that I can reposess it and sell it. I would have thought that it would be worth a lot more than scrubland in the NORTH!.



confused Wyn

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 19:36

ctd from msge 60



going to be lots of disapointed people, who probably won't vote yes to any plan.



One of the possible contradictions to this statistic that we are talking about is that 80% og GC's and 76% of TC's say that Turkey and Greece should contribute generously to the financial cost involved in the resolution of the property issue.



78% of GC's and 62% of TC's belive that before the property issue is resolved, a full cencus of all the affected properties should take place, in both communities, examining their current use and condition. This property census would then be used by the negotiators of the two communities in their deliberations.



I wonder how seriously the two leaders will look at this report or even consider it

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 19:55

I believe we are witnessing on this site is collective anxiety.



Both leaders have gone to great lengths throughout to assure everyone that the property



issue will be settled fairly and in accordance with International law.



There is little doubt that the EC will be pulling all the strings behind the scene, and they will



ensure so!



Lets leave the men to talk, Athens and Ankara to dictate, and The Internationak Community



to decide the outcome of this dispute.



My view, thats all,



wyn

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 20:45

come on Wyn, you started any anxiety with this thread

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 21:27

Spot on ILC.



Wyn you are the only one that persists with this hypothesis over several different threads. Most of us have been fully aware of the situation for a long time and bought knowing the potential consequences.



I am sorry to add that it is threads like this that you keep raising that have the potential for causing anxiety. Let it rest and let nature and politics take its course. You and the rest of us have no say in what will result and we will have to accept it.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 21:52

I was just seeking the views of other board members. It seems 66 members so far wished to share their opinions. I thought that was what these forums were for!



Surely ignoring current affairs will not make them go away.



My opinions on the subject matter,clearly expressed are that there is no reason to be concerned.



wyn

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
31/10/2008 22:26

Wyn, most people who purcased exchanged land knew what they were doing and they knew what could happen in the future. Yes there arexsome people who say that they did'nt know but they are few and far between. I don't think there are any anxious people here. I for one am not concerned about the result either way. I took a chance and knew the risks involved. If I have to pay some compensation then I will. However if I am told that I have to give the property up the I'll do that as well. Not without a fight I hasten to add. I've had a property here for 6 years, to be honest it didn't cost me a lot of moneyand if I lost it then it wouldn't be the end of the world by any means. Sure there are some people who gave 'invested' their life savings here and it is those that will fine it difficult. Will we lose our properties? Who knows, we are all speculating at the moment. I wouldn't like to say either way. It's a difficult question. I hope we don't.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 17:15

hi wyn we are new to the forum and just purchased in chelsey village we looked at all the building work going on and did have some reservations but hey dont think anyones going to be allowed to demolish half of trnc relax & enjoy

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 17:51

Lose Villas, never thought there was even the distinct possibility, to many sold, to many deeds issued, past the point of no return for GC's or TRNC goverment who facilitated construction boom. There would be so much litigation it would never come to pass. Main players problem and they know and understand it otherwise they wouldn't be talking.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 17:57

I think a realistic Western European ( EU and UN) approach to the property situation and its resolution would involve monetary compensation only.

People will not be evicted and even if they were recourse against the seller should be possible.



Anyone buying in TRNC should be very particular with their contract of sale.



You and your heirs and assigns should seek total indemnity from the seller against any claim whatsoever against title upon the said land, property and chattels as shown in the contract of sale.



Most developers will NOT agree to this because of the small risk of a claim.

I would certainly push for this clause and if it is not acheivable then a reduction in the asking price should be negotiated because of the obvious exposure of the buyer to claim risk.



In any event my belief is that the EU will stunp up significant cash as will both Republics. The risk of anarchy, violence.....cont

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 18:05

cont....

civil unrest, mass decline in tourism, etc will be too much of a threat to the economic status of the Island to be allowed. EU as well as North and South shurely aknowledge this.



Any buyers will have considered the fact that prices in TRNC are the best in the Mediteranean. This is reflected in the risk that purchase involves.



Budget for it at worst and at best protect your investment the best you can with contractual inclusions in your contract of sale.



Also Contracts would be best to follow British Law..you will be very lucky to get this. TRNC law is dubious and the courts in TRNC are not at all well respected.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 18:17

Although a good idea, personally I don,t think many sellers of property in NC whoever they may be will agree to total indemnity of title, and I don,t think their legal advisors would allow them to sign up to such a condition at present.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 18:20

spot on pilgrim everyone should stop worrying our savings are already spent well mine are anyway enjoy

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 18:22

spot on pilgrim everyone should stop worrying our savings are already spent well mine are anyway enjoy

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 18:37

Wyn re msg 62 "Given that I paid a full price for my plot, and that it was exchange land, can someone please identify my plot of land in the "SOUTH" so that I can reposess it and sell it. I would have thought that it would be worth a lot more than scrubland in the NORTH!."



Why are you still confused? I've lost count of the number of times that different members have explained to you that there has never been a physical exchange of land; plot A in Paphos for plot B in Esentepe or whatever. The exchange took place between the TCs and their government. They gave up their deeds for property in the South in exchange for points enabling them to buy land/property in the North.



So, once again, you do not have a plot in the South to make a claim against. If you are still unsure, please clarify this point with your Advocate.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 20:44

Wyn . At the end of the day they will have a hell of a fight on there hands ,if we all stick together , what do you think ?

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 21:11

PIPIE- we're right behind you!

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 21:35

To many Turkish Cypriots have now bought property and are continuing to buy property in large numbers as their prosperty has increased over the years. Most of this property is on old Greek land so the chances of any return by Greek former owners to reclaim their property being allowed seems impossible and as the years continue to go by even more so, there is more chance of the UK winning Eurovision.You cant turn back time---the Greeks have to still come to terms with this--better for us if they dont saves us paying them any cmpensation at all.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 21:57

I think the presence of the turkish army is the critical factor



and surely pikey agrees with that staement



'sept he thinks it is a bad thing and I think it is a good thing



diff'rent points of view...



it still looks like the south has yet to offer anything of substance



in terms of compromise so we the relevance of opinion surveys



could be rather limited



but I live in hope, he says tongue in cheek



andre

namus


Joined: 23/06/2007
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 22:50

Heavens above - YES you will lose your villas unless........



All countries agree to alter fundamental International Law that real property can only be transferred by deed with signature of owner.



Do you think International Law will be changed after 170 years precedent for TRNC? Great, I'll take a few big houses near me by force.



Please go figure.. are there no lawyers on this board apart from me? The Annan Plan is subordinate to International Law.



I hope all purchasers of 'exchange land' (who exchanged?) like court appearances and legal costs as this is their future.



The Rule of Law - the only rule

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 00:07

message 82.

Mr Pike, you of all people should acknowledge that civil discontent is not treated by the presence or threat of force it could at best be only controlled.



The adverse effect on the Island economy need not be substantiated.



It seems that your views are not conjusive to amicable settlement.



Perhaps you would like to indicate what you want and also how you see settlement could be acheived.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 00:48

OK, i,ll go first.



Settlement must benefit all parties. Historical differences need to be put aside and tolerance andrespect for all Island Inhabitants be an objective.

Settlement should aspire to providing economic prosperity, stability of governance and unification.



The above can be achieved, as i have indicated in previous postings, with significant input from the EU, UN and neighbouring countries.

Finnancial settlements need to be made to compensate displaced persons and also to small and medium enterprises that have suffered by exclusion from cross border and international trade.

The EU need to bring economic and financial pressure upon both Republics and Turkey to move forward.



OK .. Pte Pike and your proposals?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 01:01

msg 84:



which settlement is that then?



andre

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 01:14

msg 81.

Mr Namus,



International law is very diverse and very often disrespected.

It can be argued that turkey intevention in 1974 was illegal. Certainly atrocities in the 70,s are construed as illegal.



The law can be contested in the courts and only upon judgment can action be condoned.

Only upon a judgment can Villas be taken.



Out of court settlement is without duobt an asspiration of villa owners.

The terms of settlement will, withoubt doubt because of the magnitude of the problem, be resolved around the highest political table in Brussels.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 01:27

Nobodys losing any villa, international law and its ramifications will be considered as part of negociations if settlement is reached, thats why compensation will be the solution, otherwise international law will have ramifications for the parties agreeing to the contrary.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 08:22

According to Politis newspaper reports...



GCs are putting together a lovely deal they call Hariri along the lines of ... "You rent our lands and stay on them for up to 20 years and we'll take your lands in the South and build on them... "



Fair exchange is no robbery.....!



What a sleight of hand that will be...

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 12:15

What a surprise - some posts seem to have disappeared. Could they have been considered somehow "unhelpful"?

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 13:04

I would agree with Paul that nobody will loose their villa. However I feel that compensation will be paid and it will come from the present occupier.



To rely on the TRNC or Europe to pick up the bill and alter international law to meet the needs of a few Brits is just a dream.



Compensation will be demanded and its just a question of how much?

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 13:44

bradus

you are quite right on all three points you make .

the turks will give back what they want to give back and not because someone tells them too,can any one force them ,no. The greeks have maras and compensation should they choose to take it.

mainland turks are part of cyprus now ,the greeks must come to terms with this and stop fighting it,we all know this is the real problem, a problem which they cannot control ,as they have done so in the past with the turkish cypriots.

so for those who think they may loose their properties,think again .

compensation has always been there ,the greeks have not accepted,they are holding out for more (the whole island) comes to mind.

no changes there then.

musin

long live the kktc

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 13:48

Wyn

you wrote







'Given that I paid a full price for my plot, and that it was exchange land, can someone please identify my plot of land in the "SOUTH" so that I can reposess it and sell it. I would have thought that it would be worth a lot more than scrubland in the NORTH!.'



As far as the south is concerned there is no such thing as exchange land, and as far as they are concerned its the same as you unknowingly buying a stolen car.

So it all hinges on who has the upper hand in negotiations.



I expect TRNC to protect me as I bought within their exchange land framework.If that doesnt happen then I cant blame the ROC,as they have been open and consistant on the subject. I knew where they stood when I purchased and I had thought I knew where I stood with the TRNC govt

and presumed both arguments at the time were valid, I chose the TRNC argument and hope TRNC govt doesnt 'forget' all that was said in the past.



After all its them that gave me Permission to Purchase.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 13:50

OK, absolutely agree that villas will not be lost, compulsory purchased, demolished or persons evicted.



Compensation is a likely outcome. Who is likely to pay?

Modern contracts of sale should cover any claims against tile and or damages from any third party. Unfortunately TRNC law and courts are unlikely to be very strong in asssisting aliens.



European political strengths such as UK and other EU states are of course anxious to see a stable unified member in Cyprus representing a valuable member based in the Eastern Mediteranean.



Economic covergence followed by pollitical convergence is definately on the agenda. In February 2006 0ver 100 million Euros in aid to Northern cyprus was agreed. This is the first of the economic incentives to the North to get things sorted.



Compensation will eventually be on the agenda and finances from Republics the EU and posible the IMF will resolve the Property issues.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 14:01

as the gc's and private pike it's turkey that keeps the trnc afloat



both with financial and security help



however deserving north cyprus may or may not be, that is the reality



just like europe and the eu shift for the republic of cyprus



that's why the south is temprementally unable to make realistic concessions



and as a result no "settlement" whatsover is in prospect at this time



perhaps the south hopes the trnc and turkey will throw in the towel?



I believe and trust not...



underestimating turkey has been a hobby of europeans for a hundred years



long live kktc! long live north cyprus!



andre

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 14:12

Are we not falling into the trap of accepting the GC idea of compensation to readily therefore giving an easy out to the TRNC negotiators. Nowhere have I read that compensation was ever supported by the TRNC,that was the idea behind exchange land.

While I think it will happen ,the financing of it will be negotiated,but please dont help.



The point about nobody losing there villa because we can pay compensation might depend on your wallet size. I for one have heard of two options. Annan plan, which GC's rejected ,of pre 74 value plus interest.That works out at double the land cost then .Or the preferred method from GC point of view of land at todays value. Whats a donum of land in Girne cost ?



Plenty of TC's own exchange property.what about them.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 15:23

A reunification in one form or another is in evryones long term interest.

Economically, politically and last but nost least for the benefit of generations to follow. What better hope should we all hope for than to see overriding peace and prosperity for the youngsters and unborn of the island.



Sure, settlement, period, is not around the corner.

Economic convergence of North and South , which could be, will result in inceasing prosperity for all. Open trade and an opening of travel restrictions will be a positive move.



Political convergence and the final settlement will follow.

Land and property issues will also follow as matters are moved forward.

Certainly the powers of the EU, UN and possibly the IMF will bring pressures to bear. Yes Turkey currently has a controlling influence in North. However Turkey have desires in European unity and the EU, they would be unwise not to negotiate.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 17:09

Agree sue , never thought otherwise, but feel some funds will forthcoming to help some Tc,s obviously depends on valuation criteria settled on. If based on todays value will lead to a nightmare of litigation against developers and even TRNC government. Hence my reference to international law which would be then the point of reference.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 17:13

after reading cyprus today,



it now looks like they will be asking you to pay rent on your exchange land.

purchased legally as freehold, i can't see how they can even think that they

can pull off this stunt, but who knows this is cyprus!



wyn,

i have never accused you of anything. ok you purchased exchange land and you were a little nieve, but you are not alone. lots of people are in the same boat, only time will tell.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 17:36

I think Namus arguement has validity . He claims to be a lawyer so he should know.



Could I please ask that you do not shoot the messenger.!!



Can I ask yet again? I paid full price for a plot of freehold land, which it was claimed was exchange. If I have to pay compensation or rent, what happenned to my freehold exchange property.? Where is it or who has got it?



I have taken careful note of all responses, BUT I HAVE STILL NOT BEEN GIVEN AN ANSWER!!



wyn

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 18:48

Sorry Wyn, There is none, As described by other members :-

Exchange land, my belief is as follows.

As you know there was much displacement of both GC and TC in the aftermath of 1974 hostilites. CC,s heading south TC,s heading north, leaving their homes and land behind. Obviously with so much property empty displaced people who arrived in either area 'adopted' these homes sometimes with the blessing of the authorities in north and south. It has been said to me initially this was thought of just a temporary measure, however by 1985 the TRNC authorities decided to formalise property issue for TC's who had come North leaving property in the south. For those who could prove ownership , points were awarded on the basis of the nature and amount of property abandoned. These points were exchanged for abandoned greek cypriot property valued on the same points system and TRNC exchange title deeds were issued to confirm new ownership. I think it wasn't till 2002 that the TC could sell.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 19:04

Suzanne, thats not a bad idea.

Why can't this information be made available by either north or south authorities.

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 19:15

Hi all, try this, took it from another forum, don't think they will mind. Hope its in date and go into the website.

Land Information Office (Headquarters)



17 Alasias Street

1075 Nicosia

Tel: 22 304820

Fax: 22 767001



District Lands’ Offices



Famagusta

59 Faneromenis Street

P.O. Box 40419

6304 Larnaca

Tel: 24 304288

Fax: 24 304290



Kyrenia

35 Acheon Street

1101 Nicosia

Tel: 22 303945 Fax: 22 303838



Larnaca

6 Medousis Street

P.O. Box 40106

6301 Larnaca

Tel: 24 803301 Fax: 24 304288



Limassol

Franklin Roosevelt Avenue

P.O. Box 50200

3601 Limassol

Tel: 25 804800 Fax: 25 804890



Nicosia

21 Acheon Street & 10 Etolon Street

1459 Nicosia

Tel: 22 303939 Fax: 22 780961



Paphos

44 Eleftheriou Venizelou Street

P.O. Box 60008

8100 Paphos

Tel: 26 802300 Fax: 26 306129



Paralimni Sub-Office

26a Marias Sinklitikis Street

Paralimni

Tel: 23 821253 Fax: 23 829195





http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus7458.html

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 19:27

why would any Exchange land purchaser contact land registry in South , if you bought Exchange you accepted the seller as owner and now I imagine feel you own it. Suzanne is just being contentious.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 19:56

Depends which land registry you visit. If you accepted the validity of TRNC title deed you obviously would visit those in the north. If you didn,t accept validity you wouldn,t have bought.So why visit land registry in south.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 20:12

suzanne ,you have obviously led a very sheltered life 'No such thing as exchange land' . Correction the TRNC government issues title deeds for eshesger title land.

Although I agree not internationally recognised it exists by name and defacto status.

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 20:24

Best way of being held in custody and questioned................telling the staff at the land registry that you have bought GC land in the north. Please don't go there!

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 20:36

Of course there is such a thing as exchange land. If it didn't exist then we would not be discussing it now!



What you mean Suzanne is that the South of the island do not recognise exchange land. This is very different to saying that there is no such thing.

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 20:44

Even in the south some would also argue that exchange is a reality. There was recently much publicity about a TC and GC willing to exchange but being prevented by the ROC. The ECHR over ruled and allowed the exchange. Also this was taken from a GC newspaper and I think you'll agree these GC's certainly feel that they have exchanged with the TC land owner!



“WE HAVE been shouting and protesting for 30 years because the Turkish Cypriots have been building on our property. But the legitimate government (of Cyprus) gave us money to build houses on the properties of the Turkish Cypriots. And at the time they lied to us, telling us that they had given us state land. This was what was written on the documents we signed. We will never leave. We will stay here and if they dare, they can come and kick us out.”



Exchange albeit on a small scale is a reality.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 23:08

Err, no Bradus. An exchange is only valid when both parties agree to the exchange. And you won't find many Greek Cypriots telling you they exchanged their property with anybody, least of all a foreigner. Ordinary Cypriots they're OK with, speculators and outsiders they will not tolerate.



Which leads to the main issue people should be talking about if they are in the unfortunate position of occupying someone else's property (even though they were told it was exchanged etc etc at the point of a bayonet etc etc). How much support do you really think you can count on from the Turkish Cypriots and the TRNC government when it's time to face the music?

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 23:19

Suzzanne,



The post on visiting land reg. in South Nicosia is a comment that has been posted many times across the forums but nobody seems to think it is valid.



As this is the ONLY place where records at July 1974 are kept it is the only place to find factual information.



Nobody will bother if you go and ask the questions, I would think the guardians would be happy to see that someone is trying to protect their heritage!!!!



Personally could not be bothered as we know our land is "exchange". Also aware that the term "exchange" is a notional one although not as extreme in its consequences as Young Pike tries to promote. It is exasperating that the same people seem to keep raising this issue, getting the same posts in response but still will not be satisfied or indeed take advice given.

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 00:10

Err no Pike,



Read carefully. I said, "There was recently much publicity about a TC and GC willing to exchange but being prevented by the ROC" I then quoted an article about 300 GC families that had been given TC land to build on and had only found out recently that it was actually TC land. They were not willing to give up their land but were happy to exchange for the land they left behind in the North as they had no intention of returning.Where have I written about foreigners being involved in this above process?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 00:21

msg 102 suzanne:



there is such a thing as exchange land,

but it is not internationaly recognised as such

there is no such thing as a prospective settlement however

since as we both know,

an acceptable agreement has yet to be agreed:



if such an event were ever to occur I will be among the first

to try to analyse its implications



andre

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 00:28

CIH,

I would agree that the only place to find factual information about your deeds is the South. Certainly for those that have purchased pre 74 it is the sensible tand recommended thing to do.

However perhaps this valid suggestion is not taken up by exchange purchasers because they are aware that the South has made it illegal (read somewhere up to 7 years imprisonment) to purchase such property.

Perhaps its not so much can't be bothered and more about fear of the consequences?

Superscousers


Joined: 25/10/2008
Posts: 71

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 00:49

Once again everbody is brainwashed in thinking that the TCs and foreigners have no rights and own not a scrap of land in the island of Cyprus! and do not have any rights whatsoever exchange land what a load of B......lks were do you want the TCs to live ? in the caves and animal pens the Greek mainland terrorists forced them to! .how many mainland greeks live in the south ? if turkish people have to be repatriated why not the enosis supporters and the ELLas terrorists? lets have an amicable settlement and live our lifes in harmony.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 02:48

msgs 1-113



very interesting material from one and all



but am I the only person on this board

who can find no evidence whatsoever

for any of this having any immediate relevance

unless there is ever an agreed settlement

or a collapse of the trnc?



since there seems no likelyhood of either

in the forseeable future

I feel something else is going on here

which I find hard to define...

at least in any form that is printable



perhaps someone could explain?



andre

Jo Valentine


Joined: 10/02/2008
Posts: 508

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 03:22

From Cyprus Mail, October 8th

Clerides waiting for title deeds

(archive article - Wednesday, October 8, 2008)

MEMBERS of the public without connections are not the only ones to experience difficulty when trying to get their hands on title deeds to their property.



Former President Glafcos Clerides is also among the thousands of Cypriot homeowners who are unable to receive the title deeds to their homes.



It seems Clerides has yet to receive the deeds to his holiday home, which he purchased second-hand at the Spyros Seaside Complex in Meneou five years ago.



The home is part of a complex built 15 years ago and to this day none of the owners have received a title deed.



According to Politis a few irregularities were made by the development company which including building part of the complex on government land and another part on foreign private property. The tenants were told this made issuing the title deeds more difficult and complicated.

Jo Valentine


Joined: 10/02/2008
Posts: 508

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 03:27

Continuation of 115....(8th October Cyprus Mail)



In 2004 a law was passed allowing owners who had problems in acquiring their title deeds to apply for deeds or to have their property approved. In line with this law a number of owners submitted an application to the Larnaca District Office two years ago. Among the applicants was also Clerides. By yesterday none of them had received an answer, his daughter DISY deputy Katy Clerides said.

Jo Valentine


Joined: 10/02/2008
Posts: 508

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 03:28

And from Cyprus Eastern Forum, 30th October:

From N Howarth

There were some errors in the original article - I had it removed & I'll post a correction later today.



There are two processes - one for residents, & one for non-residents.



Before the change, residents went to the District Office & got a certificate from them on production of their Temporary Residents Certificate. The District Offices are no longer doing this - the residency process has changed.



Before they can own property, non-Cypriot residents need to complete the new residency process. This is similar to the process they went through before, but they now need to complete one of the MEU forms depending on their circumstances.



For non-residents - nothing's changed. They still require Council of Ministers permission to own property.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 12:02

bradus,



It was this comment you made that drew my attention:



"Of course there is such a thing as exchange land. If it didn't exist then we would not be discussing it now!"



Forget your examples of 300 people down south etc. We are talking for all intents and purposes about the so-called "exchange" property occupied by the vast majority of expats in North Cyprus. Who exchanged anything with them? They were sold a pup.

namus


Joined: 23/06/2007
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 13:59

UK Perspective



Old chap down the road has been annoying me, blocking my drive, issuing threats etc. Never liked him.



I decided to invade his property and took it as my own. I informed him that he could have my lock up as 'exchange'. I then took his property and sold it to some Poles and I gave them a piece of paper titled 'Deed of Ownership' with a fancy stamp issued by my Land Office (my bedroom).



The Poles seemed happy with this and will defend their right to live in the exchange property as the old chap was a nuisance anyway.

They claim legal validity of their Deed of Ownership...etc. I could not care less as I have their money.



Could such a daft thing ever happen? Well it has in TRNC under the rule of the Turkish army bayonets.



If 'owners' of exchange land feel it is legally or morally correct or that their ownership is safe then it is OK. We all make risk assessments.

namus


Joined: 23/06/2007
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 15:14

Suzanne - I hardly know what to say. My posts are normally met by hostility and a load of clap trap along the lines - the GCs started it, our ownership is legal because some halfwit estate agent told us etc....



Apart from Pike this is the first positive comment I have received.



Thank you. Maybe I'll get another star under my name.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 15:28

At least by your responses you agree Exchange land exists. point made.

Tatlisu4me


Joined: 26/01/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 16:26

Apart from Pike this is the first positive comment I have received.



(Same persons)

namus


Joined: 23/06/2007
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 16:27

Pilgrim, how can I put this?



By giving something a name and referring to it does not mean it exists or is a legal entity.



I can refer to God but the reference alone does not prove existence.



If I refer to ex GC land as Namus Land does this mean that I own it?



Exchange land exists in the minds of the TRNC politicians and sellers and buyers of such disputed land.

As I said before, you may have taken a risk on the land based on Turkish army protection but it does not mean it is legal, moral or safe.

namus


Joined: 23/06/2007
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 16:41

Msg 124



Tatlisu4me, does a message in agreement mean they are from the same person?



Is the same person posting pro Exchange Land messages under 60 different guises?



Well, with such views you certainly cannot refer to this BB a source of unbiased, well argued opinions.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 16:59

namus, I have to say that reading through your posts they do have a similarity in writing style to that of Mr. P's.



Good analogy at 119 though.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 17:09

Tatlisu4me msg 124,



Mal, an intelligent and professional man like you must be pretty sure of your facts to state that namus and myself are one and the same.



That being the case, would you care to back up your claim with a £500 bet?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 17:16

Doyen,



You won't catch me accusing semi-literates on this BB as being the same person just because of their writing style. So what exactly do you consider to be the style similarity between namus and me?

namus


Joined: 23/06/2007
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 17:26

I misunderstood. I thought same person referred to Suzanne and Pike.



It is very crass and simple to accuse opposite view points as double posting. I like Pike's idea of a bet but would make it £5,000.



It is very simple for the company hosting this page to determine double posts.



Pike, a while back I pointed out that you were pushing against the tide on this message board. This is what stopped me posting before and I think I'll call it a day again.



It is impossible to warn people against their own greed. They prefer the sensible unbiased views of Estate Agents rather than from me, married to a TC for many, many years and a visitor to N Cyprus since the early 80s. The newcomers will soon tire of NC.



By the way, when did the Turk thing become an issue. My wife considers herself a Turkish speaking Cypriot but never a Turk. As I mentioned before on this BB, my wife and her family would not touch 'exchange' land except to acquire by points (great system that was) and sell on.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 17:26

regarding the roc land office,

i have been there, the main records from before 1974 are kept in the office just down the road.

you need to have the greek name of your village and your plot number along with the

reference which is a ordinance survey ref found on the bottom of your kochan.

they can then find the village records.

the village maps from the trnc are identical to the roc copies.

many plots were not registered to anyone before 1974, so if you have purchased the so called exchange land, you could be lucky and find out that there was no registered

owner pre 1974.

or at least you will find out who the legal owner was/is now, and know where you stand.

what is stopping you trying to find the owner and having a deal with them directly?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 17:28

Mr.P. I said that namus’s writing style had a similarity to that of your’s. For example how about some of these remarks from namus:

Well your reply blew me away but I feel you you protest too loudly. I'm not sure propaganda is related to gene pools or just instruments of control by corrupt regimes.

Nothing like free speech. Contrary views are seen as thread napping, vitriol etc... How narrow minded. Foolishly I thought potential buyers may be interested in hearing of a few pitfalls but all seem to have done their...

Last message because i do not want to extend this but ilovecyprus, can you recommend any basic intro books on this subject as your explanation of the fears we all share has me intrigued?

Well you all know my views on the land issues but shame on you all for justifying buying somebody's stolen land. Just because they are GCs does not mean they are bad people and they have every right to protest. Thank heavens...

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 17:30

and a couple more......



The people are all lovely. For heavens sake Julie, a welcome smile does not excuse corruption, lies, theft and deception. Cypriots, in general, are nice natured

Free speech and debate at its best - Musin M ' you should be taken off this bb' Words fail me. If this bb is just a pat on the back to TRNC lovers that is ok but please open your closed mind a smidgen to accept a few.



You don't think there is a similarity in writing styles here then Mr.P ?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 17:31

No1 Doyen,



I had a similar line of thought as both yourself and Talislu4me over Namus. I tried to E mail him off board two days ago, and the E mail was returned as being invalid. He also does not state his Occupation or location. Strange that at least three of us, came to the same conclusion. Perhaps if Namus would choose to be a little bit more open!



wyn

namus


Joined: 23/06/2007
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 17:34

Well I never - amateur graphologists as well.



You fools do not deserve my views.

Good riddance









ps , personal remarks will not be tolerated , any more and they will be deleted

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 17:42

Dummy anyone?



wyn

Tatlisu4me


Joined: 26/01/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 17:45

Msge 130



I misunderstood. I thought same person referred to Suzanne and Pike.



Thats what I was referring, again

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 17:46

Time for another shave Suz.



wyn

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 17:48

dream on.

thanks for the amusement.

Tatlisu4me


Joined: 26/01/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 18:06

Suzanne, I don,t really know you but Pikey seems ok though.



P.S will have the £500.00 and bet that there are 3 or more persons on the forum using 2 different names

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 18:11

suzanne,



I think he has a fantasy thing going. ;-)

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 18:14

namus,



Stick around old chap. It's far better a BB with at least a few well informed people who actually know Cyprus and the Cypriots.

Tatlisu4me


Joined: 26/01/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 18:18

You crease me young Pikey, do not usually have much time during the day for this forum, but have had a laugh to-day !!

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 18:33

A united Cyprus is as probable as a united Ireland--keep smoking the weed girls and boys.

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 18:35

Cant beat a good crack back and sack.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 18:39

karakum5c,



Hardly a decent analogy since there is little demand for a united Ireland from anyone apart from terrorists and extreme mentalists. Whereas the entire international community and most Cypriots want a united Cyprus while the only ones opposed to this are the terrorists and extreme mentalists.

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 19:04

Suzanne



Re your msg 138



If it does go tits up for villa owners I can't for the life of me think why we would ever want thank you....for what????? I can't say I've ever seen much advice from you which is of any use to those that already have property here in NC.



Correct me if I'm wrong but I get the distinct feeling that you would take a perverse delight in seeing things go wrong for people here.



Jim

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 19:25

spot on Jim

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 19:41

hes like a cancer and thats no disrespect on a growth lol,

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 19:52

Epiphany...



After all that has gone on I now realise... Pike is McCain and Suzanne is Sarah Palin...



Well it explains a lot... does it not?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 19:56

Pikey,



As a pseudo policeman (a uniform and a truncheon to play with) but no more authority than

Mr Jo Public, have you not listened to your more professional colleagues, the importance of MO ( modus operandi) when investigating.



Now then Campbell Thomas aka Eric Seans aka Rifleman Thomas aka Pvt Pike. aka

Miss Tidio (idiot) aka Scaramanger.



How many more write in exactly the same disruptive style? Suzanne, Slipper ,Namus.

Peeler? As I said in a previous posting..."If the cap fits"



Personally I come on this board to be informed and if appropriate inform.



NO ONE knows the outcome of the property issues, as it is not yet decided. We have been assurred by generalised statements from the powers that be. What we do know, if there is to be a settlement, it will be under the auspices of the EU and the International community,

and no doubt using their funds, and as such you can expect it to be fair to all members of that community and in particular members of the EC.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 20:00

I personally do not think that there are any irreconcilable differences between the YOUNGER

Cypriots and whilst it is good to listen to and debate members views, why don't we just leave it up to them, and give peace a chance.



After all, it is their futures which are at stake!



wyn

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 20:10

suzanne

the kktc belongs to the turkish and anyone who chooses to live amongst us ,greek people are also welcome.



namus

if you are a lawyer ,then i am peter jones.

you and pikey may be different people ,but you talk the same s..t



musin

long live the kktc

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 20:58

Wynyardman: "As a pseudo policeman (a uniform and a truncheon to play with) but no more authority than Mr Jo Public, have you not listened to your more professional colleagues, the importance of MO ( modus operandi) when investigating."



Hilarious. As well as being out of your depth in Cyprus, you don't even know the basics of policing. Special constables have exactly the same powers as regular officers. We are all constables in law. And I have the power of arrest whether on or off-duty. But relax - being a buffoon is not an offence at present. Truncheons? You belong to Dixon of Dock Green. Whisper it, but we all get Autolock extendable batons, Captor spray, Speedcuffs and body armour. I think the police thing quite excites you, as you revisit it, usually after opening time. Yoursh my besht mate, you are.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 21:06

Pikey, behave yourself your a Hobby Bobby so stop getting carried away

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 21:16

Would the real Pikey, please stand up?



Allo! Allo! Allo! what ave we ere? You and Suzanne use these smiley faces a lot!



Strange that also!



wyn

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 21:23

Im not one to gossip and dont wish to stir things up but convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that wynyardyman and pike are the same people.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 21:28

BillyB,



You may have a point!



Positive and negative attract? (Oh my ...Help) Its OK I've checked ...Poles apart!



wyn

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 21:36

pikey,



I was out with the uk police on hallowe'en

as part of my job,

and we took a girl of 13 home

who had fallen into the gutter totally drunk

I thought, I don't believe this,



but then remembered many similarly

very hard-to-believe things like:



pike appears to want turkey in the eu,

perhaps he really likes the turks after all?

or maybe he thinks the eu will get the north back

"the easy way"?



megabites of stuff about a "cyprus settlement"

(what's that all about then?)

when the south still fails to offer

any real concessions and have now split

about what to do over the "guarantor" question



while contacts in the turkish army have told a friend

they will "never" leave cyprus...



could I most graciously venture to suggest

that not only will wyn get to keep his de-facto villa

but that he need not lose any sleep over it either



andre

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 21:37

Turtle,



Is this more your thing? ;-)





http://www.specopstactical.com/shop/catalog/images/30020_NAVYBLUE_SHORT_SLEEVE_GENUINE_POLICE_UNIFORM_SHIRT.jpg

briggus


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 21:38

WUM I think applies to Mr Pte Pikey

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 21:41

Andre,



What job do you do that involves you picking up teeny drunks with my police colleagues?



BTW, the analogy you gave appears to support the points I make on this BB.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 21:43

Just as obscure nonentity applies to Mr John Mills, eh Briggus?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 21:46

You've aged a bit Pikey.....and what a brilliant tan ?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 21:55

Pikey,



I was stopped by the Police 3 days ago (a real one with a gun strapped to his thigh) a propper jobsworth (goes with the job , I suppose) attracted by the shiny split rim alloys. I had just washed the car! ....anyway to the point.. .not a breathalyser in sight. Strange that!



Real uniform as well.......Not a Bobby Shafto lookalike!



What was that you were saying about dilusional?



wyn

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 22:05

Andre, This is outragous that police took a drunk 13 year old home. Why did you not stop them?

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 22:06

wyn

he does kids parties as well you know,his got a clowns outfit also,along with a ...police uniform,army uniform, sailors uniform,pilots uniform and of course the bay city roller outfit, which as you see his got on .



have a nice evening wyn



musin

long live the kktc

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 22:15

Mus,



Do you reckon he would be safe around children. You want to see my truncheon sonny?



scary!



wyn

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 22:26

please do not provoke the lootenant



'sides, he might get his soul-mates in the south

to bring back the S300 anti-aircraft missiles

they so had so ignominiously to ship to crete

when turkey warned they would "neutralise" them



I shake in my shoes



andre

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:03

musin: "he does kids parties as well you know,his got a clowns outfit also,along with a ...police uniform,army uniform, sailors uniform,pilots uniform and of course the bay city roller outfit, which as you see his got on."



Am I right in saying you have dodged ever having to wear Turkish uniform in Cyprus - by making sure you stayed safe in London? Just as well the Turkish Cypriots are made of sterner stuff than you.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:05

andre,



Was it work experience to become a police cadet? If so I can give you some people to write to.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:09

Wynyardman,



I can see why you don't like police officers because you were fixed for some road traffic offence. But have you ever thought that your index/es may be tagged as someone to be stopped and checked out? I'd say there was a BIG chance this may be true. ;-)

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:19

That just about sums the scuffers up Pike ?

2 weeks ago our business was broken into and £20k of goods stolen and £4k of damage to the building....scum bags.

But the funny thing was your lot could,nt be arsed to turn up for 4 hours having been alerted by redcare.

But even funnier is when I was on my way to work the next morning there he was in his big white van with a camera sticking out the back window nicking people going to work to pay for the fat lazy plod in his van.

Good to see you have your priorities in order ?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:20

Pikey, Police Officers.



On the contrary. I have no problem with them (the real ones)



In fact I waited for 2 days with baited breath for them to turn up when our house was broken into.



Fortunatley they were there in seconds when I was slightly over the speed limit.



I think maybe that is down to the quality of personell they get nowadays.



Whats this got to do with the posting?



wyn



ps Looking at your photograph....was it the softest little thing that kept you out of The

Strathclyde Girls Band? never mind sonny, stroke your truncheon!

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:22

oh dear your upset pike ,never mind love .



i was on holiday in cyprus in 74 ,and yes i have worn a turkish uniform albeit for 8 weeks ,but i dont claim to be a super hero .



but i am a turkish cypriot,and north cyprus is turkish now ,so live with it.



not you or any number of greeks will get it back.



have a nice evening ,,,super hero.



musin

long live the kktc

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:29

Turtle msg 179,



Unless you know what else was happening when your call was made and how many officers on response were actually available to deal with it, you can't blame the guys on the ground. Everyone's in the same boat.



As for the mobile speed camera, most are part of civilian-run safety partnership networks and I'd be very surprised if a police officer was involved in this.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:34

musin,



I think you told us elsewhere you have never been in uniform and I'm afraid I'll have to take your first answer. But let's face it - London's a much safer place to bad-mouth those nasty Greeks who have kept you away from Cyprus for 50 years. Big news since you've been away, BTW - the island is now independent from Britain! Who'd have guessed it, eh?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:35

Things happening on the ground........do me a favour it was 4.30 in the morning

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:47

Is your place in a bad area, or as we say a place of "mixed social values"? Could explain why it gets busy.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:59

Our premises are in a very affluent area, mainly residential lots of "nice people"

Perhaps its too much to ask of you lot to actually do you job and give us something back in the form of protection.



Anyway you are only being argumentaive AGAIN .........back to the thread.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 00:11

oh dear you are upset.

i know this because you start to make things up .

london is a safer place then cyprus ,i think not ,nasty greeks keeping me away from cyprus ,prehaps you haven,t worked it out yet ,you live in the kktc

thats turkish ,but hey super heroes don,t care .

maybe ill put a picture of myself in my uniform .

but like i say i,m no super hero,just a bricklayer.

oh nasty greeks thats just your opinion.

oh and how come you bad mouth turks from behind your pc.

maybe your not a super hero after all



chin up.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 00:17

Who would have thought it - 186.



These threads get so boring I am sure some like myself try to think of ways to go out and commit a serious crime - like standing on the cracks in the pavement or talking in a strange accent!!!!!! Have I Got News For You!!!!!



I look in occasionally to see if Wyn has got the point but it seems not! There are several thousand of us in same position and it seems it is only you that keeps raising this issue. Maybe it is you that is the subversive trying to undermine the confidence of British people here!!!!!!!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 00:26

CIH,



In message 11 I made my views crystal clear.

Other opinions are those of others who subscribed to this thread.

I sought, and have received others views.I'snt that what these boards are about?

Other people have opinions on the subject matter, not just you aqnd Pikey.



wynyardman

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 21:29

Pikey,



You and your friends gone quiet when faced with reality?



A balanced well thought out response, is what makes membership of this board worthwhile.



When the members speak, personal insult, attacking the man becomes the order of the day,



instead of debating the subject. The bottom of an empty bottle is poor company!



wyn

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 21:45

"Bravo Mike 10 to Delta, suspect is suspected drunk and in possession of an empty beer bottle, Bravo Mike over."



"Delta to Bravo Mike 10, roger that. We know all about this one, social services have been informed, Delta out."

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 21:46

step back a minute guys take a look closer to home seems like its all about eu membership well weve got an island divided in two and theyre both in the eu if turkey get in trnc wont need to change works in ireland why not

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 21:52

Allo! Allo! Allo!,



What ave we ere? Conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace. Slam im up in Strathclyde Police Station, and disregard his drunken rantings about being a Special Constable. Even is so

called mates don't want to know him.



Do you want anything spread on the cell walls sarge? No leave that to im, hes full of it!



wyn (detail available from the WORLDWIDE NET) od dear!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 22:02

Suz,



Seems its time to trim the old moustache again!



wyn

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 22:24

"Delta to Bravo Mike 10, we've logged the drunk and incapable one for the nightshift, as he often attempts disruption until he falls asleep, Delta out."

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 22:26