News on K5 court case today

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 11:23

I have just glanced at NCFP and todays K5 court case....................



http://northcyprusfreepress.com/2011/08/26/kulaksiz-5-interim-injuction-against-eviction-fails/

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 12:20

What awful news Earlybird, my heart bleeds for them!

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 12:23

Shocking !!

metin


Joined: 08/09/2008
Posts: 1588

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 12:26

Sometimes I just hate this country........

Today is one of those days !!!!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 12:30

It is a setback and a major one but as a well know poster has said many times before



Never give up never give in.

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 12:32

I don't think Pauline will be giving up any time soon!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 12:41

Neither do I Earlybird. I suspect few know better than you how long these kind of things can take to reach a final conclusion. A battle has been lost but the war goes on, so to speak.

jimmyG


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 900

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 12:44

Beggars belief - I just want to read the judges justification for this ruling.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 14:00

What exactly does this mean please?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 14:26

philbailey as I understand it, this case was seeking an injunction to stop Akfinas bank doing anything with the properties until the full case regarding the legality of how they granted the loan on said properties and then siezed the homes subsequently after default on loan can be heard and ruled on.



The 'main' case is yet to be heard and fought in court.



What todays result means, ignoring the appeal, is that Akfinas can continue to 'do things' with and to the properties whilst the main case is waiting to be heard. If the injunction had been granted they would not have been allowed to do anything with the properties until the main case is heard and ruled on.



That is my understanding but I am not directly involved just an observer and I am sure those with better knowledge than me will correct any innacuracies in the summary above.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 14:29

Thank you erolz

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 14:45

Does it not mean that the bank can now evict the K5? They can now sell/demolish /use or rent out the properties?



What laws allow people to pay in full for their properties as per the signed contracts, take possession and then be evicted because the builder or land owner decides to take out a loan from a bank using this sold land?



It beggars belief.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 15:37

Hi I'm back. You are right earlybird, I wont be giving up ever. Too many people with problems.



I have submitted a full report to NCFP which will be on shortly.



The Judge said NO. to the Injunction. There will be an Appeal and the legal beagles will continue to get rich.

Akan KUrsat and Mehmet Kader (part owner of Akfinans Bank) were not in court, guess theyhad a sneak preview of the verdict) When you read about it you will realise this will go to the wire the ECHR. I thinkthis article might fnd me having my collar felt again.



Paulinex

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 16:14

The full report is now on NCFP if any one is interested. I am no good with links.



I wantto scream but I am afraid if I do I will never be able to stop.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 16:27

The link is here



http://northcyprusfreepress.com/2011/08/26/kulaksiz-5-judges-decisions-akfinans-bank-are-innocent-the-north-cyprus-property-victims-are-to-blame/

LondonCypriot


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 426

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 16:33

You have to keep fighting



Fight



Fight



Fight



You have to promote your campaign in Turkish as well , as not many understand English. Write to all the political parties , including the Turkish embasy.

matula


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 647

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 16:46

Effing disgusting. Another nail in the TRNC coffin as far as I'm concerned.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 16:50

We will but today we are all a little low. We were expecting a good result.



I am afraid it will go to the wire. The ECHR

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 16:55

Sorry bradus I did not answer your question, no it should not mean than can evict without evcition notices and that means court cases. Of course in the case of me and Eva McCluskey, they never bothered with such niceties. Must have been our fault since the Judge thinks they are a normal responsible Bank. That bloody Agile throwng himself in front of their car, we all know the victims are to blame.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 17:03

So now the intimidation will continue, which of the villas, fully furnished but the owners in the U.K will they take next., Course its Friday and a week of Bayram so who knows what horrors the K5 wll be subjected to over the next week. NO good calling the Police, in fact, K5 are pretty much at their mercy. Those poor hard working Bank owners will be on their way to spend the weekend and possibly the week relaxing in MY VILLA.

I hope the roof falls in on their evil heads.



Perhaps it is time for the CORCHIDACTUS to bloom.

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 17:06

Re msg 19 "normal responsible bank" . I'd be laughing my head off if it weren't so sad.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 17:20

Perhaps it is for here, especially when you consider the 1400 in the queue behind K5. earlybird, this is a country that is committing suicide with a blunt knife.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 17:55

Words fail me.



The property issues's are scary and those who have purchased a property should be very concerned.



For what ever reason there appears to be very little justice for property owners.



We should all help the K5 as much as we can.



It just makes my blood boil.

Chef99


Joined: 21/08/2011
Posts: 34

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 18:16

set up tents outside branches of the bank k5 will live here since the bank wants their villa.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 18:51

I feel physically sick at this incredible bad news re. K5......words fail me....



How can this 'judge' reconcile such a decision with his/her conscience and be able to sleep at night?



If this isn't [alleged] croynism at it's worst, I'm b^ggered if I know what is.

rocking


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 421

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 18:52

Misunderstood, should anything happen to you over the Bayram period and you need a Turkish speaker please give me a ring (my husband) and we shall be with you in a couple of minutes - meeting you today I know you and those involved will NEVER give up and whatever I can do or write my offer is there. God bless you all.

Mandy


Joined: 25/10/2009
Posts: 48

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 19:57

If the judge did not grant the injunction, that basically sends the message that there was no point.



In otherwords, it does not sound good for the final judgement.



In that case, the banks are rubbing their hands glee, and we're going to see penioners by the dozen thrown out of their homes.



I've read somewhere the number of people affected runs into thousands.



The TRNC government may believe this is a victory, but I think it may be the tide turns.



People will only take so much, I think that we'll see a max application to the ECHR, pulling Turkey into the frame.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 19:58

Thanks rocking, thanks everyone. Today more supporters than ever turned up. I am sad it did not turn out to be a happy occasion.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 20:16

I wonder how this travesty will affect the people who defend the TRNC’s right to exist?

I wonder how this will sit with the 350 thousand TC’s living in the UK? Perhaps this is why they have no vote here in their homeland, and why they are not encouraged to return.

I wonder how the local TC’s will react when they discover some of their own are about to be caught up in this type of fraud?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 20:35

Troodo;

It realy doesn't matter wether one is foreign or local when it comes to matters like this as there cannot be a coprimise between right and wrongOne thing buying a house in an unrocognised country and loosing it to real owner/s and another thing to actualy buy/pay and have it taken away from you because of sellers debts.



...and no tC's in uk are not being encouraged to return nor have rights to vote because WE'd then be a majority...........and the ones did make that mistake to return are and will gradualy be going back...........every single one..............with big regrets..............I have so far put my head down and got on with it................cannot promise nor I know how long it'd last................

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 20:45

That message of yours is SO HONEST - you've got my respect, 'yorgozlu'!



Brinsley always tells me you're 'one of the good guys'!!!



Hope we meet sooner or later for a coupla three beers!

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 20:46

The implications of this Banks hollow victory will be felt everywhere within the TRNC and beyond, anyone thinking about investing in this oh so stupid Country must surely think, think, and think again! please don't do it! you don't have to leave your brains on a plane! you can do eveything by the book! and still your life savings will be stolen from under your feet by criminals using the name of Law!



Pauline and all K5 please "Never Give Up Never Give In"

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 21:12

Tenakoutou;



"That message of yours is SO HONEST"

Do I take your above comment that 'my messages' usualy full of lies?

My messages are always honest,hence the reason where I am today,or should I have said........where I'm not today..........some refer to me as marmite.......it's a kind of love and hate relation if you know what I mean...





These days I am residing opposite w***e houses in guzelyali,so if you heppen to be up this end of the world I'd be accross the road.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 21:24

TRNC victim,the implications will ONLY be felt by those who have mortgages and memorandums on their property and have experienced the unjust system, that prevails in the TRNC.

Do you think this Government gives two hoots about what has happened? With all the negative publicity did it act? Have they changed the laws to prevent this from happening again? Have they stepped in and done anything constructive throughout the whole ordeal? NO, NO NO........they are merely riding the gravy train and as yet, its not time to get off. Far more memorandums and mortgages for rich pickings.



At the end of the day the philosophy seems to be get what you can, whilst you can.This is not about guilt or shame, such people are without these emotions. Although support is growing, there are still far too many members that make excuses for Government actions and omissions. They have never given support in order to establish a real voice that says very clearly, "Enough is Enough"

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 21:30

yorgozlu - I didn't get where I am today without being always promoted to the level of my INCOMPETENCE - geddit?!



I get the message in your messages - you love Marmite and hate Poms - I guess that's quite understandable!



Er, which side of the road did ya say.......?



Forum Rules say we must keep to the subject - so, the sooner the ECHR blats Turkey [as the 'occupying power] for allowing all this 'monkey business' in TRNC, the better. I suppose the 'powers that be' here are laughing til they p1ss their 'Y' Fronts, safe in the knowledge that they can do what they like, cos Turkey's the one that will 'take the rap' at 'the end of the day'!



I bet all the 'baksheesh' flying around could keep us in grog [booze] for a fair while!

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 21:50

Bradus, I knew the Government couldn't careless years ago! victims of Aga have received nothing from either the last Government or the present Government, or the Turkish Government! but I did think perhaps I was stupid, even though I had never heard of Gary Robb! I don't think any official body in the god forsaken country care about anyone but themselves, but for the life of me I couldn't see how victims who knew nothing about mortgages being taken on homes they had bought and paid for could be evicted!



Guilt and shame are no where to be seen, from Government, to Lawyers, to the Judiciary, even it seems to shop-keepers! and the average man in the street!



How the hell can anyone make any more excuses?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 22:07

Yorg stated:



It really doesn't matter whether one is foreign or local when it comes to matters like this as there cannot be a compromise between right and wrong. One thing buying a house in an unrecognized country and loosing it to real owner/s and another thing to actually buy/pay and have it taken away from you because of sellers debts.



You have summed up the whole situation in just a few honest words. Well said. If only you had been the judge!

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 22:17

Come on guy's they make up their own laws each and every day its changed ! The judge was going with his feeling..............Who was he feeling for !









Spider,X

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 22:25

NOT a good outcome and one i was not expecting,nepotism comes to mind, the sooner the country becomes recognized the better ,then maybe we will start too toe the line,shame on the judge ,just can,t understand how on earth he came to that decision,or maybe we know .



still ,just one battle many more yet.



musin



long live the kktc

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 22:29

Who was the judge?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 22:35

Talat Ursar? I think

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 23:29

Everybody should use the power of the Internet and email all Turkish Embassies around the World about whats happening here.

I have started by emailing the Turkish Embassy in Lebanon



It might work as sooner or later someone will contact 'Higher Authorities' and maybe something will happen.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
27/08/2011 00:01

ang1706



It's already been done! IT'S A WASTE OF TIME!

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
27/08/2011 04:34

And you still see people on here

saying they are going to buy

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
27/08/2011 07:37

Judge Talat Usar picked two main issues to reject the application; 1. The withdrawal of a case before I joined the group, as I understand it Gunes Mentes withdrew the wrong case, but as I was not party to it, I cannot give details. 2. That knowing about the repossesion case going on, we made no attempt to join in with it. That would be the case the resulted in the repossession order date 20 Nov 2008. That is just not true.



BOth, to my mind are spurious arguments. The JUdge seems to be saying that it is okay for the Bank to put mortgages on someone elses land and the victim is to blame for not stoppping them.



If the ECHR or even a court here eventually rule the mortgages illegal from inception, which is the claim of Boysan Boyra, this judgement is going to look pretty flawed The only good thing to come out of yesterday, from a person point of view is that the JUdge denied Aknfinans's petition to have me removed from the case.

Now I wonder why he did that?

Pauline Rea

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
27/08/2011 07:40

REMEMBER:



In a civlised society this case would not be necessary. There would be no intimidation, no illegal repossessions and no Bank with the Police in their pockets. The final oucome would be awaited.

Wibow


Joined: 10/07/2011
Posts: 97

Message Posted:
27/08/2011 07:54

After reading about the K5 case is



I'm totally disgusted how these people have been treated



Who in there right mind NOW would ever think of buying here in the TRNC



Surely someone somewhere can help these people



They have invested there lifelong savings to retire here



DISGUSTING !!!!!

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
27/08/2011 08:01

Help will come from the ECHR - THE ONLY PROBLEM - will we live long enough to benefit from it?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
27/08/2011 09:08

Apparently Cyprus Today is reporting the Judge as saying 'that there would be no irreversible harm to the defendant if they were evicted'



Perhaps it is just as well I dont undesrtand Turkish, I really do not know what I wouuld have done had I understood that.



Who says crime doesn't pay.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
27/08/2011 10:03

Yippeee Page 5 in Cyprus Today. Obviously not as important as Big Mac

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
27/08/2011 11:14

Hey Misunderstood. Is this a case of 'lost in translation' or if the Judge said that, might I ask from which Planet or hell Hole he originates. Has he ever been homeless, or better still would be take in those who were homeless to ensure that no further harm came to them.



I haven't seen the paper yet, but ,honestly, in the words of Richard Mildrew ' I don't believe it!'

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
27/08/2011 11:52

Marion, he is not the first judge to make a statement like that. It seems we are a resilient bunch. It shouldn't have been lost in translation since the CT reporter appeared to speak Turkish. He must have been reading about the cartwheels I do every time Stop the Blackmail get more members.



AGED BETWEEN 63 and 89 and it wont do irreversible harm, for God's sake, even the court hearings are doing irreversible harm, having the Kaders at K5 flaunting their power is doing harm, this man's competence is only exceeded by his compassion. I have seen the paper, it is there is black and white, the exact words are.

"He also said he believed there would be no 'irreversible harm' to the defendants if they were evicted as the bank could compensate the Kulaksiz 5 buyers - if they were to win the main case." Tell me Sir, how do they pay rent whlst waiting for that compensation??



I expect they can all go and stay at his house.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
27/08/2011 15:56

lower court, high court, lower court, now back to the High Court - 4th attempt at the sam Interim Injunction and it only stops the Bank selling our properties.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
27/08/2011 21:42

misunderstood,



They love having everyone running round in circles! saves them from having to confront their demons

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 00:13

The Incesu buyers never evengot to court.

Vandals are now stripping the houses (not banks). The Landowner suggested fencing the site off in May 2011, but when the buyers agreed (as long as they have access) he then stated that they have to pay for the fencing and the security........

Its all a bloody Joke!!!!!!

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 18:52

When is the next court date ?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 19:02

Why did the Incesu buyers not even get to court?

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 19:06

What happened to Incesu ?

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 19:13

Shocking for all those poor people. My advise stay well clear if you want to live in the TRNC then rent.

I am afraid nothing will change, it will just get worse. The only thing these people may react to is being shamed internationally!

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 19:49

philbailey We now have to wait for a date for the Appeal at the High Court, guess Bayram comes first.

K5 that is. Will let you all know when I know.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 20:00

Ask yourself: Where was I in november 2010, when a couple of great, brave Cypriot Turks (Ismet, Teresa, Ali and others) and a double handful of expats (*) were silently demonstrating (the disappointing vigil in Nicosia) for the good cause?

I'll tell you. YOU were not there. You didn't have the time to drive all the way to Nicosia.

You were not interested in the good cause at all.

Even most of the people who are in problems (K5) now didn't show up.

Sorry: this whole thread is pathetic.

Written in front of the keyboards, mostly anonymously.

Worthless.

Too late.

Solidarity in the expat community - mainly British here?

Don't make me laugh.

On the Bulletin Boards?

Pathetic rumble in the background.

(*) P.S. My wife and I were there out of solidarity with the threatened Brits - although we don't have "the problem".

P.P.S And where were YOU when it mattered?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 20:01

P.P.P.S. It's all too bl**dy late now - why would the TRNC government worry about all the powerless words on Bulletin Boards?



N.B. I'm too ashamed to show a picture here about the 'candle vigil' - you'd see more police officers than "silently demonstrating Expats (Brits)".



One of the black days in my life (but a true eye-opener).

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 20:11

@ msg 49, Misunderstood: (...) Apparently Cyprus Today is reporting the Judge as saying 'that there would be no irreversible harm to the defendant if they were evicted'. Perhaps it is just as well I dont undesrtand Turkish, I really do not know what I wouuld have done had I understood that. Who says crime doesn't pay. (...)



▶ I'm sorry to say it, but you "honour" your nickname. If you quote from a newspaper article - quote in full or don't quote at all. Read the article and the judge's words again.

What sweet favors do you think you do yourself with your increasingly bitter posts?!

Old Dutch saying (translated): "One catches more flies with honey than with vinegar".

kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 20:26

Hans, I understand your comments about the vigil, and agree that it was poorly attended. However, I do not believe that if 1,000 people had attended, it would have made a scrap of difference to these apathetic self-seekers.

They would probably have called in the Army, and they would not have been concerned about ordering them to open fire.

The only things that they might understand are loss of money and physical violence.

Sad, but that's how I see it.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 20:46

Hans, as ever you speak from cold facts.



It is very true what you feel about some of the people on this site are anonymous and just type to make themselves important, but that is not everybody. Please do not tar everybody with the same brush!

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 20:47

I am trying to understand the thinking here. - Please, don't think I am on the side of the banks because I am not.



"no legal provision to inform buyers of mortgages"...... What exactly does this mean? Assuming that the Judge is there to measure the legality of the plaintiff's case against the law as described in (whatever) statutes that apply, does this statement mean :-

a) there is no requirement in law to inform...

or

b) there is no legal mechanism to inform.



So, the bloke who took out the mortgage seems not to have broken the law ? Although I think it is morally a pretty horrible action to take, a step towards potentially being able to defraud the future owners.



That's quite a loophole to exploit. The question being, how does one close that loophole, and thus make the taking out of a mortgage on land that has been sold, illegal?



TonyE

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 20:54

@ msg 65, Ang1706: (...) It is very true what you feel about some of the people on this site are anonymous and just type to make themselves important, but that is not everybody. Please do not tar everybody with the same brush! (...)



▶ Just for the record, Ang1706, I do not tar everybody with the same brush. But I stick to my words: when it could have been the start of an ongoing, growing campaign by many expats - I only met 20-30 people in Nicosia to tar with the same brush.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 21:02

Tony,



the loophole was supposedly closed with the registering of contracts. I believe that there is no requirement in law to inform you if mortgages/memorandums are placed on your property. The onus is on you to make regular trips to the land registry and check. Not good news for those with holiday homes who don't get over to the TRNC as much as they would like. Obviously its not a matter of there actually being a legal mechanism..............they simply don't have to do this, much like they don't have to inform you when PTP is granted or refused or more importantly, WHY.



Now why would you not wish to put things in writing and keep it all above board, I wonder?

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 21:04

Tony a very sound point and hopefully this can be passed onto the Legal Eagles and a solution can be found!

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 22:24

bradus, I remember this, did one not have to use an estate agent to register the contract, or some such palaver? My contract goes back to 2005, I guess before this wrinkle appeared.

Ok, I am not a legal mind, but in the past have worked with gentlemen of that ilk in restructuring business processes.

Digging a bit deeper....someone thought registering the contracts would provide a safeguard? So,if the registering of the contract actually offers no safeguard, as it seems, is there a link missing, ie does the registered contract have no further legality actually added on the purchasers side?

So, was this just some sloppy drafting? or done with a lack of knowledge of the legal standing of the processes involved? or a job not completed? Anyone got any input on this?

And no, I don't believe in conspiracy theories....

TonyE

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 22:53

No more than a loophole Tony. Registering of the Contract was introduced as part of the Newly introduced Estate Agents Law. Indeed most people were totally unaware of mortgages on their properties until they attempted to register their contracts with the land registry. It was at this stage they actually found out. As the law was not retrospective nothing could be done for those finding themselves in this position at the time. However all those that registered thought they were safe. Indeed most have been safeguarded against mortgages (a few fell fowl having discovered their advocates had never actually registered their contracts) but memorandum have now appeared to take the place of mortgages and the risk factor remains.



Hope this explains it better than I can. Its question number 2.



http://living-in-northern-cyprus.com/review/2010/08/north-cyprus-legal-advice-august-sept-2010/

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 22:56

In short memorandums take precedence over registration. The law is happy for builders not to pay their debts and use the registered property you have paid in full for to recover his debt.



Unbelievable!

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 23:05

Hans , very true

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 23:40

Bradus, thank you for the link, interesting reading...."... recent cases have shown that memorandums and injunctions can still be registered over properties even after Contracts of Sale have been registered...."



Shows the loophole seems to be in the precedence give by the legal "value or standing" of the memorandum V the contract of sale. - Needs it's priority upped !



TonyE

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
28/08/2011 23:46

Sorry, incorrect use of apostrophe!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
29/08/2011 00:20

The Registration of Estate Agents Law which brought in registration of Sale Contracts was drafted by a Turkish Cypriot who had legal training and worked in Australia for the last 30 years on matters of Human Rights and thus had very little experience in Cyprus nor any experience in drafting. Thus the loopholes. That is not his fault. The loopholes could be closed if anybody cared but those in effective positions are incompetent to say the least.



I was speaking to the General Manager of Tapu and he assured me that if there is a Sale Order, they inform all those with registered contracts to take appropriate action. I would like to think that Registration takes priority over Memorandums but it has yet to be tested in courts. In the case of K5, the mortgages were in place before registration. That difference is very important.



Finally, once a court decides on a case or matter, it is final and can only be altered by the appeal court and the appeal must be lodged within 42 days od the court decision. There is no way to alter it through a back door action.



ismet

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
29/08/2011 11:24

No comments so far on msg. 76?

ismet

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
29/08/2011 13:11

Thanks for your input elko2. I agree this loophole could be closed very quickly without the necessity to have a case tested in the courts. It seems common sense that once you have paid in full for a property and registered what should be a legally binding contact that actually states no encumbrances of any description are to be placed on the property, then this act should give you the protection needed. To then allow memorandums to be placed, simply makes a mockery of having a contract in the first place.



Most of the people I have spoken to came across mortgages and memorandums by accident, they were certainly not notified by the land registry. Some discovered this when attempting to sell their property, others found out from the HBPG and others panicked when hearing of others experience and did their own search. Perhaps those that found themselves in this position you could tell us if they were notified or how they discovered this?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
29/08/2011 13:24

One could be forgiven for thinking that the Registration of Contracts was merely another way of getting more money from buyers?



It has obviously been set up in such a way as to still allow unscrupulous developers to extract "legally" even more money from the buyer.



Incompetence?

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
29/08/2011 18:19

msg. 78, Bradus,

Please note that the chief of Tapu stated that they notify everyone when there is a "Sale Order" on the land, not when they put a memorandum on it. Also please note that there can be no new mortgages imposed after registration and any existing one at the time of registration is made known to the buyer.

ismet

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
29/08/2011 18:49

Msg 80:



What a comfort to everyone, and how encouraging for potential buyers to know this!

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
29/08/2011 20:18

The whole system stinks and no self respecting Bank would have taken part in this fraud.



Are there any?



ECHR will right this terrible injustice, but we will all be pushing up the daisies by then.

Spike


Joined: 05/07/2011
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
29/08/2011 20:18

elko2 said: "The Registration of Estate Agents Law which brought in registration of Sale Contracts was drafted by a Turkish Cypriot who had legal training and worked in Australia for the last 30 years on matters of Human Rights and thus had very little experience in Cyprus nor any experience in drafting. Thus the loopholes."



Amazing the pool of talent in TRNC is so big. Very reassuring

hadenough


Joined: 14/08/2011
Posts: 19

Message Posted:
29/08/2011 20:52

I was wondering as to what direct action can one do ? to fight these B!S!!!!!.s

maybe its time for the same type of tactics are reciprocated.

hadenough


Joined: 14/08/2011
Posts: 19

Message Posted:
29/08/2011 20:52

Nope



But hey if we keep quiet and not rock the boat it may not happen to us !



hey whats the difference between Gary Rob & the banks UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH NONE

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
29/08/2011 21:06

If 'the powers that be' in Turkey only but realised how the open fraud that is being perpetrated in the name of 'law' is, and will, ultimately affect them, they'd be doing something about it, surely?



Personally, I am not suggesting for one moment that Turkey is condoning this rotten scenario - but any fair-minded person that does not agree with the continuing occupation of TRNC by Turkey, might well apportion total blame on the occupying power.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
30/08/2011 18:50

Incesu - above Alancak

7 British buyers bought property there from 5 years ago off plan. 2006/2007

The Landowner is HASAN SUNGUR President of the Estate Agents Union, and (I Believe) Chairman of the Employers Union. He contracted with an Unregistered builder CAFER YUCELGAZI to build houses off plan and without a build permit. He to sign the buyers contracts so that he could not be held liable as the landowner.

The Advocate SENER LAW FIRM used his wife AYHAN SENER to conduct the business SHE failed to inform them of the risks and reassured them of the safety of the project. The project plans were then changed to place Hasan Sungur's house directly in front of the sold houses. To do this they needed to remove about 20ft of land in front of the sold houses which compromised the integrity of the land/terrain. Who paid for the land to be removed not Hasan Sungur or Cafer Yucelgazi - the British buyers - then in 2009 their builder said he was broke and left the project.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
30/08/2011 18:59

The winter storms of 2009/10 took their toll and washed the mountainside onto the houses causing cracking and collapsed terrace and other damage. The bulder had failed to build the retaining wall behind the houses - there is a retaining wall behind Hasan Sungur's Houses they are safe.

Now the properties are being vandalised and Hasan Sungur wants the buyers to pay for security of the site. pay for their Land, pay for taxes etc etc etc

- Hasan states he is a VICTIM

- Pauline Read state that Hasan Sungur is a VICTIM.

- Gary Robb's wife was in the papers saying he is a VICTIM

- Maybe the K5 Bank is also a VICTIM

We have an awful lot of ????????? VICTIMS HERE !!!!!!!!!

The Incesu buyers, never got their houses, never got to live in them ALL the staged payments were paid for every house - the only payments due are the ones when the property is handed over.

This is the Ploy - pretend to build until all payments in this case around 1/2 a million then pack in and walk away.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
30/08/2011 19:06

All of the incesu buyers are currently in courts.

Cafer Yucelgazi posted Court Proceedings notices IN TURKISH, in the ENGLISH SPEAKING NEWPAPER, giving them 30 days to respond.

All of the buyers live in the UK except one. The only way they found out about the proceedings was thanks to Marian Stokes who contacted them and sent the notices on to them.

Cafer Yucelgazi stated that the addresses were UK unknown - RUBBISH - Sener Law Firm has all of the addresses AND so does Cafer Yucelgazi - he managed to contact them all in 2009 begging for more money.

Maybe if he had not moved all of the land to move Hasan Sungur's houses, he might have had some money left to finish the project.

Plot No 10 was on Homes from Hell last month.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
30/08/2011 19:18

HildySmith,



I agree totally with you that the FRAUD(or as you call it PLOY has always been certainly since 2004 to pretend to build gather all the money and then before any completed homes! just walk away leaving the Victims with nothing! that certainly was Gary Robb's Fraud with Amaranta Valley! and yes Hildy there certainly are an awful lot of victims in the TRNC! and I'm sure Mrs Robb thinks poor Gary is one of them because he was extradited to the UK to fulfil his sentence! she probably thinks he's a victim of the TRNC Government! as we all are!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
30/08/2011 20:53

H Sungur informed the Incesu buyers

- by email that costs were being sought to complete the site in 2009

- again in a meeting on 9th May 2011 - costs to complete the site were being sought

- last month - costs were being sought and would be ready for Monday 15th Aug 2011

- Still waiting???????

Does anything ever get done?

Will the Incesu buyers every get their houses?????

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
30/08/2011 21:05

Will the Aga VICTIMS ever get their houses???????

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
31/08/2011 01:26

msg 76 Ismet



our properties had a court order for sale issued on them and we werent informed nor were the advocates or so thats what they say. I found out myself and informed them, From your message does it mean as soon as a court order for sale is issued we have tolodge an appeal within 42 days ?



honestie

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
31/08/2011 01:40

Why do all the "victims "

not get together ?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
31/08/2011 12:29

Hildy, have negotiations between you and the landowner totally broken down then.?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
01/09/2011 08:11

Will I ever get my compensation, I am the first to have my villa illegally repossessed, followed by Eva McCluskey, will anyone ever forget that 'bum' going through her window. Will I ever forget them trying to run over Agile. So Eva and I share the unenviable distinction of being the first to have actually taken possession of our villas and then having had them 'stolen from us' we now have no villa and no compensation, at least the rest of K5 hang on to theirs, allbeit by a very tenuous thread.



For those of you who have paid and never had delivery of your villa, my heart goes out to you. For those who are being blackmailed for more money, whether it be to finish, to provide electricity, water, pay builders taxes, a bung to transfer title. You ar all being blackmailed and yet still some think keeping quiet is the answer. Tell me this, what has keeping quiet achieved so far? HISS IS FATAL.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
01/09/2011 08:17

Could'nt agree more.



We have to take these crooks on.(thats what they are)



We should name and shame them on this forum.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
01/09/2011 08:25

Hope you are a member of the Stop the Blacmail Facebook group magicart - If you aren't on facebook, join it and then join the group. You do not have to overwhelemed with e mails, you can click edit settings, untick the boxes and then only look at it when you want to and most importantly, post your comments and tell it like it is.



Our membership is 1031 and you would be in the company of like minded people. This situation has to change or TRNC will never recover.

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
01/09/2011 12:36

msg 80 Ismet



Please note that the chief of Tapu stated that they notify everyone when there is a "Sale Order" on the land, not when they put a memorandum on it. Also please note that there can be no new mortgages imposed after registration and any existing one at the time of registration is made known to the buyer.



Actually, if the Tapu were to notify everyone when the memorandum is put on - the buyers have more time to act. Even better, if the buyer's were notified by the Tapu when the injunction is obtained, it would be even better because they could throw their hat into the ring prior to the Judge making a decision about THEIR property.



Secondly, you should be aware that mortgages have been obtained AFTER registration of contracts. It just goes on and on.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
01/09/2011 13:13

Molly Very sensible therefore the TRNC GOVT. will never listen.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
01/09/2011 18:56

Why not use the Magicart Facebook and the forum to arrange protests. Making sure to get the press (including) turkish press involved.

An incesu buyer asked their advocate about doing a 'Turkish' homes from Hell with Ada TV and he told them that the owner of Ada TV also had a construction company and their buyers have taken them to court.

It is clear that the brits are an easy target for quick money

The corruption is right to the top and the government will do nothing about it as the people involved are in high positions.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
01/09/2011 19:06

msg 99, Molly wrote:

"Secondly, you should be aware that mortgages have been obtained AFTER registration of contracts. It just goes on and on. "



This is the first time I hear about this. It is clearly against the law and if the Tapu does not cancel such a mortgage I can assure you that the court will do so. Can you give us more details please on such an occurence?

ismet

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
01/09/2011 19:45

elko2/Msg 102: 'Can you give us more details please on such an occurence?'



Just be 100% assured that if 'Molly' is prepared to state this on a public forum, then it is 'gospel'!



'Molly' only deals in facts - never hearsay!

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
01/09/2011 20:25

Even if the Mortgage is placed after registration of the contract (like ours, we signed in 2005, Mortgage taken out 2006, no notification) when you fight them in Court, they will produce a piece of paper that states a Mortgage was taken out in 1998 (as in our case) and they will do this after a year when you are at your final tether!



You cannot win!

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
01/09/2011 20:54

Perhaps Molly is in a position to know facts! good for her!



most of us try to meander our way through so much rubbish, the facts get distorted! even Ismet it seems dosent know "The Facts"!



britvic you really can't win!!!!!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
01/09/2011 21:09

msg 104, Britvic,

Please note that Registration began after 2006 i.e. after your mortgage dated 2006. Am I missing something?

ismet

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
02/09/2011 06:49

Ali Safa owns Ada TV and the Kibris and Cyprus Star groups. The advocate should be very sure of his facts when stating his buyers have taken him to court, remember he allegedly issued at £1,000,000 Writ against Maron Stokes when Medview appeared on the name and shame list. It was allegedly withdrawn when she apolgised and she is now friends with him.



Ali Safa did tell me he has no mortgages on any of his sites. I do not necesarily believe everything I am told. No he is not a friend of mine, in fact Naughty Nick would not print anything I took into him because I joined in a thread on here laughing at his antics when he used to work for them and was always photographing people.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
05/09/2011 00:10

does he do a 'homes from hell' programme?

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
05/09/2011 00:18

from the little I know, ali might, but it would need a sponsor - so who would pay? programmes cost money - quite a bit of money, so.......

Trotsky


Joined: 30/08/2011
Posts: 51

Message Posted:
05/09/2011 02:27

any silly fool can issue a writ asj Munir Akil ! has non T/C buyer off medway homes ever got their Kochan ?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
05/09/2011 07:28

Of course anyone can issue a writ but to be the recipient of one, especially from a man who has enough money and clout to follow through with it must be a very scary experience.



THat said, I think some Medview buyers have had Kocans, Marion Stokes would know, you can find her e mail on HBPG sie if you really want to know, or perhaps someone on here might know.



That's a funny one HIldy, Ada TV doing Homes from Hell type programme. As I remember it their guy who did the English TV proramme there left because it was shelved. Last I heard he was reporting for Cyprus Today. a very nice guy who I have a lot of time for.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
05/09/2011 18:31

It may be funny to some!!!!

However, the suggestion came from TC's locally who are disgusted with the treatment of the Incesu buyers. They suggested this and gave the name of the presenter. (one was an Estate Agent and a member of the Union)

Many TCs are disgusted with the way Incesu Buyers have been treat and with their countrymen for doing this to people to give so much to their country.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 08:33

Oh HIldy, I do think it funny that you would expect what is after all a TV station who shelved their only English language programme to produce such a programme, however all power to you elbow if you manage to get them to. A very good friend of mine Haluk who works for the group has won many prestigious awards for his investigative journalism but unfortunately all final decisions on such matter go through the owner, and I just do not see him sanctioning it.



Many TC's are disgusted with all the injustices heaped on ALL the property scam victims Hildy, AGA, iNCENSU, K5, ARMACON, SERCEM,BOYUT, NOKTA,RECAIOGLOU,SERCEM,SANTA FE, even with your builder Hildy, yours is just one of many he has walked away from. That is just to name a few, there are more.



JUst look at how many members of Stop the Blackmail in North Cyprus facebook group are Turkish Cypriots,

The total membrship 1065 and predominately TC's.

vixen


Joined: 03/09/2011
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 11:43

I am a new poster on this forum so please excuse my ignorance.



Would the signing of a contract not take priority over a later taken out mortgage.



In other words you signed the contract and at a later stage the developer/bank/builder/landowner then decided to engage the bank to supply him/her with a mortgage then that mortgage then becomes a second charge surely.



Perhaps i am being too simplistic here and after reading this horror story i cannot make sense of the judges reasoning at all.



Surely in property law the above would be true and recognised in any country when prioritising a list of ownership.



Vixen

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 12:10

Vixen, I do hope you are NOT about to buy property here! You don't seem to have grasped the dangers of buying here. If you contact Misunderstood I am sure she will put you on the right track.

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 12:23

Vixen message 114: "In other words you signed the contract and at a later stage the developer/bank/builder/landowner then decided to engage the bank to supply him/her with a mortgage then that mortgage then becomes a second charge surely."



This is exactly what has happened, they mortgage the land after you have signed contracts, this is where the blackmail comes into force, if you don't pay you don't get deeds, then the bank auctions off your house to pay the debt! Unbelievable I know but this is what is happening here, and in case you didn't know member Misunderstood has already lost her Villa this way.

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 12:35

Msg.114. Oh dear Vixen, You sound like the innocent we all were before we entered into the realms of property ownership (I say ownership with a huge question mark after it). Be here long eough and you will find out that signing your contract is just like signing a sheet of toilet paper. Believe me the toilet paper will probably be of more use to you.!!

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 13:04

I think we should be explaining in layman's terms what is actually going on, as it won't only be Vixen who cannot grasp what is happening, straight answers to straight questions are the best policy.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 13:54

Britivic, I'll try.



Vixen.

In theory the introduction of the Estate Agents law should have prevented mortgages being taken out on properties bought under contract. It introduced registration of the contract at the Land Registry. Unfortunately the law was not retrospective and during the registration process many discovered mortgages on their fully paid for properties were already in place. To recover the mortgage the banks are seizing the properties with a view to selling them on and paying the developers loan. This is all above board, according to the TRNC, because you don't own your home until the deeds have been transferred, whilst they remain in the builders name the house is deemed to be his assets to seize. There is no legal obligation for the developer to transfer deeds so whilst ever you do not have deeds you are in a very vulnerable position.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 14:04

Others have been caught out because despite paying and giving the advocate power of attorney to register their contract, the advocate has failed to do this, giving the developer the time needed to take out a mortgage on the land you have paid for. Not in place when you did your search but appearing later.



The loophole does not stop there. Even if you successfully register the contract, if the builder does not pay his debts and you have not exchanged deeds (usually whilst waiting for your PTP or because the developer refuses) a memorandum can be placed on the house you have fully paid for and again the house seized to pay his debts.



There are 1400 houses with mortgages and memorandums on them in the TRNC. Financial hardship or a very well thought out Government sponsored scam?



I'll leave the reader to decide.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 00:50

One of the the architects of that law is Hasan Sungur who is:

- President of the Estate Agents Union

- Chairman of the Employers Union

to name just 2 of his roles - he also has a construction company and is one of the bigest landowners in TRNC.



He is our Landowner!!!!!!!!

in 2006, he contracted with an unregistered builder to build without a build permit - and refused to sign the buyers contracts. The buyers did not know this until 2009 thanks to Sener Law Firm who set this situation up.

All of the Incesu buyers have paid all of their staged payments - one has paid extra to get the work done - to no avail.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 10:44

Has Hasan Sungur taken out a mortgage on this land? Has the builder?

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 20:56

Hildy,



Why do you insist on bad mouthing Hasan Sungur ALL the time !

You brought your property from Remax who introduced you to the Sener Law Firm whom prepared

your contracts. Or messed up your contracts should I say.

If your contracts were in your interest you wouldnt be in this mess!

REMAX has got you into this mess and charged you a commission for something you havent got !

According to the Estate Agents Laws an Estate Agent is not entitled to their commission till all transactions are complete and they should have an insurance to entitle you to claim against in you sued ur Estate Agent NOW DO U UNDERSTAND WHY MRS BENAN IS SO STUCK UP UR AR------- !!!!

Hasan Sungur made an agreement with Cafer NOT YOU !

Hasan has nothing to do with u thats why he is not mentioned in your legal documentations ie ur contract .

But still is has offered many times to you and ur group to find solutions but you just intend on bad mouthing him ! WHY ? Why not bad mouth Cafer !!!!!

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 21:50

Browneyes



Aga Victims bought their Pigs in a Poke from Unwins! as many keep telling us we cannot get our commission back? retrospective and all that rubbish!



So why even mention Remax? (They are working for the constructor)?



Senar Law Firm, Munir Akil, Akan Gurkan, etc etc.................. All the (I cannot call any of them Lawyers)....(turns my stomach)



I don't know Hasan Sungur personally, but I do know victims that have met him, they all say he is a very nice man! I have met many so called nice men in the TRNC Government all have looked me in the eye and lied, and lied and lied!



In some ways I am a little stupid, but have to agree with Hildy,



Why would some-one who is president of the Estate Agents Union allow a non registered builder to build on "his" land without the necessary planning permissions?



If he was an honest man!

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 21:53

Totally agree with you TRNCvictim!!

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 22:14

As I understand it Hasan Sungur has been trying to sort this out both in court where after the case, he and Hildy shook hands outisde the court and he had a meeting with Hildy not so long ago. This situation has the potential to be settled simply because the landowner is trying to work with the purchasers. The landowner has never had a contract with the purchasers, he had a contract with the builder to provide houses in lieu of money for the land. The builder not only let the purchasers down he also let the landowner down. The land owner would now like to get another builder to finish the project and get the whole thing sorted. Hildy you can get this sorted, talk to Sungur. Are you really expectng him to pay for the finish of his own houses and give you the land. Common sense tells me that is not going to happen. I have no idea about the building permits, but perhaps like the purchasers, the landowner trusted the builder initially.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 22:22

misunderstood (mess 126)



Perhaps Hasan Sungur should have not allowed the builder to build on his land without planning permissions in place? and it would have been a good idea not to allow anyone to build on his land who was not a member of the union he represents?



If Hildysmith has paid all her contractual money? why should she and the rest of the victims pay any more? It's Blackmail, yet another case of you get nothing unless you pay us more money!



The fact that initally the landowner trusted the builder has absolutly nothing to do with Hildy! does it?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 22:49

TRNC victim - He is head of Estate Agents, not Constructors Union. Remax is the Estate Agent who sold the properties (or some of them I believe)



If HIldy had a Contract with the landowner, in law you would be right TRNC VICTIM, but she and the other purchasers dont. The fact that the landowner trusted the builder is indeed nothing to do with Hildy but then his Contract was with the builder and he had no Contract with Hildy, so in fact he has been as duped as HIldy.

Hildy was buying one house from Cafer, Hasan Sungur was having houses in lieu of payment for the land the owned. Are you saying he should just walk away from the land and give it to the victims, as I said it is not going to happen, what he is trying to do is come to an agreement with the purchasers to complete all the houses. In law he still owns all the land that the uncompleted houses stand on, that is a legal fact. He does recgonise that it is not fair and wants to come to an arrangement.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 23:19

misunderstood - I understand he is head of the Estate Agents (In my opinion he has an awful lot of work to do there)!



However for someone who should be working within the law, why did he allow (if Hildy is correct)? building on HIS land without the necessary permissions!



I agree Hildysmith is in a much better position than many of us in that at least Hasan Sungur is trying to come to some arrangement with the victims of the builder, however as far as I can see, the fact that Hasan Sungur was having houses in lieu of payment is absolutely nothing to do with either Hildy or the rest of the victims? is it?



In essence it's yet another scam! Hasan Sungur might be a nice man, which Aga victims certainly didn't have, but the end result is Mr Sungur want's more money for uncompleted homes!



Different from K5 and Aga but never the less yet another nightmare for them!



Arrangements are expensive

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 23:24

TRNCvictim (mess 124)



I just want to answer ur questions there !



The agreement between Hasan Sungur and Cafer was made in 2006 at the time cafer was the vice priesident of the Kyrenia builders Association Hasan Sungur was NOT yet the priesident of the Estate Agents Union he was appointed in 2007 after the new estate agent law was introduced 17th April 2007. Also for the incesu project all necessary planning permission was applied for through the Chambers of Arcitecture and was approved and visa'd. these are the facts maybe Hildy didnt know this herself but THIS IS THE TRUTH.

Hasan has stepped in to try and find solutions and help this situation Hildys first comment here was WHY ISNT INCESU BUYERS IN COURT then she said they were in court and they are! Hasan ans Hildy are in regular meetings and seem to be close friends but then she keeps insisting on bad mouthing him on the net WHY !

Hasan has come up with a fair idea and it has been discussed how to complete this project

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 23:24

cont.....



And Hildy was part of this meeting with her daughter and they all agreed to it SO Hildy why do you continue to write in this way !



Please attack Cafer because he is the man who took the money and so did sener law firm and Remax !

Upto date how much have you paid to Hasan Sungur ?



about what was mentioned in mess 124 about certain lawyers trnc victim I totally agree with you a brunch of money grabbing cowboys !

But you do have the rights to sue your estate agent and get ur commision back get a good lawyer to help you difficult to find but there are some !

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 23:34

mess 129



I seriously need Hildy to confirm what I am saying but in the final meeting between Hasan Sungur Hildy and her daughter it was agreed that Hasan was not taking any extra money from anyone but they made a plan for all properties to be completed with the outstanding money that was due to be paid to the builder at no extra costs to anyone ! and that a new independent builder was to complet the project so we do have a solution please HILDY correct me if im wrong and this is only through the help of Hasan Sungur that you came to this agreement and he is will to sign over all the deeds to each person once the houses are finished at no extra cost.

I dont think Cafer was any where to be seen in this meeting SO WHY O WHY do you keep attacking Hasan Sungur !

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 00:05

Browneyes (mess 132)



Could you just explain how Mr Sungur can complete all properties with just the outstanding money? as Hildy has stated there is not any outstanding money?



How can a new Independent builder complete the properties with NO outstanding money?



I think everyone can assume Cafer has disappeared like many before him :-(



Hildy perhaps you should be honest? IS THERE ANY OUTSTANDING MONIES? at least enought to finish your site?

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 00:35

TRNCvictim



A calculation was made and there is approx 180,000 GBP outstanding payments due to the builder to complete the project one house owner owes 80,000 alone Hildy still has an outstanding payment too.

some of the properties are almost complete some not; but for the money to be collected all 9 properties can be completed including Hasan Sungurs houses.

which an new plan for completion was put into action and agreed by Hildy !!!

on completion of all the properties Hasan Sungur has agreed to hand over all title deeds to all the house owners AT NO EXTRA COST ! He says so long as he gets his houses complete why should he want more money !!!!

SO there are always two sides to a story. HILDY PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I HAVE WRITTEN ANY INCORRECT INFORMATION ! and if you carry on bad mouthing the one person thats helping you free of charge then maybe you might just push it too far and u may not have Hasan Sungur on ur side !

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 01:12

cafer yucegazi is still around now in the Lefkosa area !

I just wanted to say there is a solution here and Hasan Sungur is not the bad man as being made out !

and Hildy knows this ! He is the land owner and wot stopped him from taking out a mortgage on this land ???

At least Hildy doesnt have this problem !

Misunderstood metioned earlier and asked if the land was mortgaged !

NO IT ISNT !!!!!! So thats a blessing in its self !

Thanks to Hasan Sungur not getting greedy !

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 07:24

My concern is for Hildy and her fellow purchasers. What browneyes has written makes perfect sense, Mr. Sungur ends up with the houses he was promised in payment for the land, the rest of the purchasers get their houses and everyone could end up in a WIN WIN situation.



Now everyone has two sets of facts, Hildy's and browneyes's. Which do you accept.



Why not go ahead with this plan Hildy? Wouldn't you rather go this route than have all the aggravation suffered by those who have no solution available to them. You keep attacking the wrong person and things just get muddied and misunderstood (pun intended)

TRNC vic. All along I have known Mr Sungur was trying to reason with Hildy, if I had not believed his sincerity in this I would not have come to his defence. I think you know me better than most posters here, I would never knowingly back a villian.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 07:32

Thank you also TRNC vic for asking all the right questions, you see there is much the posters on this thread did not know. Of course I already knew there were no mortgages but I really need you all to know the truth which is why I posed the questions.



Hildy I know you are angry, you have a right to be, I know you are stressed, who wouldnt be, but please recognise the hleping hand that is being extended to you. We all want to see you living happily in your new home free of the worry that will still be there for the rest of the victims. YOU, thank God can be a success story and perhaps give hope to the rest of us.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 10:45

Well there we have it Hildy?



I wish I was in your position! I agree with misunderstood you do have a right to be angry and stressed, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel for you, and your fellow victims, not ideal, but never the less an end!



Thankyou for explaining to me Browneyes!



misunderstood I do know you are straight, thank god! but I needed to understand in my head the true facts



Hildy you are so lucky to have Mr Sungur!



I wish you all the very best and that you eventually get your homes!

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 11:00

Thanks TRNC victim, oh how I wish there was an answer for you and all the Aga victims too.



How well I remember you at the demo in London last October and the false promises you received via the Turkish Embassy there - shame on all who break promises.

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 14:40

I wonder if Hildy knows how lucky they are, they only have to pay what is owed to get their Villa/apartment finished and their Kocan. I wish it was that simple for others, us included.

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 21:55

We like to help all with property issues we have so many property problems and people dont know who to turn to cant trust ur laywers! Builders demanding more cash !

Dont suffer alone we have 1000 + members on the STOP THE BLACKMAIL facebook campaign join us and we can help give you help advice and support ! meet many more people who share the same problems !

Lets support each other WE WONT BE IGNORED ANYMORE !!!!!!!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 21:59

Hildy,



I'm sure you will gain confidence and trust once the building starts. Do you know when this will be?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 22:03

Browneyes



A little knowledge goes a long way

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 23:07

Hi Bradus

No I do not, I hope it is soon.

Also, I hope that the statements made above come true.

I will let you all know when we move into our Incesu house.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 12:50

Browneyes: May I point out, I have not said/written a derogatory word about Hasan Sungur. He is a very likeable, interesting and very charming person. You attended the meeting as Hasan Sungur's legal advisor (I was asked not to bring my legal advisor) so you will remember that promises were made ie that costings written plans would be done by 22/8/11. I was introduced to you as a friend of Hasan's which to me was fine - I took Benan as my Friend as she is the only person on this island I trust. Remax's services to me have been second to none. As I had no knowedge of you I made enquiries and was informed that you are a Legal advisor and a friend of Pauline Read. I feel you two are 'ganging up' on me. Pauline recently was requesting an introduction and interview with Hasan.

I have said how I feel regarding Hasan and as you say I am very friendly towards him - AFTER THE MEETING - During the meeting - BUSINESS IS BUSINESS. I am on anti-depressants and sleeping tablets let me rest !!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 12:53

Browneyes:

I also feel that in your position as a legal advisor, your derogatory remarks and personal attack on Benan Kursat are very unprofessional.

I will not be putting any further comments regarding this matter on this or any other forum, until this matter is resolved.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 15:35

Good.



As a victim of Kulaksiz which is what this original thread was about, Mr. Moderator, I would not be sorry to see this topic CLOSED. Earlybird, I hope you wont mind me saying that.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 16:12

Of course you do, now that you have been sussed.

A journalist

- Wanting to get close to Hasan Sungur

- A close friend of Pembe - not biased are you??????#

Who has attacked me everytime I have been on the forum!!!!!!!!

Stick with K5

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 16:12

This is not the first time you have had postings stopped when the truth comes out!!!!!

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 16:26

Clearly Hildy, you cannot be saved from yoursellf no matter how hard anyone tries.



Everyone knows this journalist membership came about as a desperate attempt on my part to stop the police from arresting me. I earn not one penny from anything I write so clearly your assumptions about my ambitions are nonsensical. You swipe at browneyes even when she has made a genuine and honest attempt to clear the air.



You seem hell bent on self destruction but remember, there are more people than just you involved in Incensu.



The truth is as browneyes has explained, Yes I want this post closed, but to assume it is to silence the truth is ridiculous and the sad thing is, you know it.



Stop crediting me with power I do not have, I suggested it be closed, the moderator makes the decision and if you let the 'red mist' clear long enough, HILDY, think, you can always start A NEW ONE, not rocket science now is it.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 16:43

Pembe is a supposed legal advisor

- Passes on incorrect information from a private meeting on a public forum '

- Benan did not recommend me to Sener Law Firm' - I wonder where and how she got that information.

Stick with K5 maybe you can do more there and leave others alone. I know everyone on the Incesu site

as we say in the North East - Mind your own business and keep your sneck out of other peoples troughs!

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 18:01

Hıldy ,

Lets call it a day ! yes I am a legal Advısor qualified in England but I do not practise here I and good friends with Hasan Sungur whom introduced me as a friend we became friends through the help he gave me with my own property problems here The Tutuşka case ( the properties that went up for auction one week after the K5)

so yes I am also a victim of the corruption !

I would just like to say Hildy please stop attacking people this thread started as K5 and finish with İncesu so looks like you was the one who has totally put a twıst to thıs thread may be you should stop picking on Pauline and let her have her own say on K5 and let them have there own say without twisting it to your personal problems !

maybe you should mind your own business ! We all have enough of our problems to get on with

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 18:19

Re msg 147 Misunderstood, yes time for the thread to be closed, I agree, this was about K5!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 18:20

Browneyes - I AM NOT ATTACKING - I am defending!!!!!!!

This is not the first thread or the first time that Pauline has attacked me in relation to this topic (that one was about Incesu not K5) and you 'a legal advisor' join in and pass derogatory remarks about another professional who has worked tirelessly for the Incesu Buyers for 5 years and state inaccurate information about her.

I too worked in Solicitors offices in the UK on legal matters, in addition to many others commercial organisations for 50 years. As a manager I dealt with all legal matters relating to a wide variety of topics. But I would not set myself up as an 'advisor' to anyone.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 18:24

Leave her browneyes she certainly has many problems which accounts for her attitude. She brings them to a public forum, and is surprised people dont mind their own businsess, go fiigure. You cannot help someone who does not want to be hleped.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 19:48

I am admin on Stop the Blackmail in NOrth Cyprus facebook Group, I am also a committee member together with Pembe. We work together to guide members to where they need to go with their particular problems.

My experience as a victim has helped me forge many connections and although I dont pretend to have the answers, I do have access to expertise I would not have had I not been a victim. Pembe has the advantage of speaking and writing Turkish and many many connections. We share this with our members and give our time and effort because we care, the accent on 'give'. We have no funding and are happy to keep it that way



Just because I am a victim does not make me immune to other peoples problems and I will always do what I can to help. I know Pembe feels exactly the same way.

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 20:46

MESS 151

I would like to say that I only felt it necessary to comment on c44 so everyone would know the truth about the incesu project. We have all spent lots of time and effort to find a solution. we have an action plan prepared and I personally will make sure it is stuck to and we hope Hildy to move into her property as soon as possible!

I wish Hildy did not go public with this because there is an on going court cases and she will only damage herself by talking about it in public! so lets put a stop to this bickering.

Hildy I was present and witness to ur meeting and Hasan is an honourable man so I will make sure that all that was discussed will be delivered.

If you need any help or support please take my number from Hasan all call me anytime I will be happy to help!

As I said I do not do this for a living we got ourselves involved through our own problems. I help and give support voluntarily and I am not on Hasan Sungurs payroll !Im not here giving legal advice just suppport !

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 21:29

The more support amongst victims Browneyes the better as far as I am concerned!



The problem is there are so many victims with so many different problems, sometimes it's hard to decipher the real from the real for any of us

Honeybee


Joined: 09/09/2011
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 22:12

Hi



I am new on this forum, i have bought property here, like most of you i was taken in by the....sun, sea and sand......and yes i have had loads of problems........and hopefully about to get my kochan.........and would like to get rid....like a lot of ex-pats. I have read loads of stuff on here, and my heart goes out to you people that have lost everything...truthfully...but how would you feel if every thing went smoothly for you? i see you victims all giving advice 'dont buy' ' away with the fairys' etc.....but then i read about success stories! Yes i am wanting to sell my property, and i feel that some of the comments on here are quite harse....understanderbly so, because of what you have been through...but people can still have a nice life here....and some people like to feel that they want to own their property....the saying a english man and his castle springs to mind. Please go easy on me i am new LOL.....yes and i know people will say...you will never own yr property.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
10/09/2011 08:22

Since this thread subject is about 'K5', I expect many people would like to know whether, or not, it is now safe to log onto 'North Cyprus Free Press'?



'misunderstood' posted a warning several days ago not to attempt to access this website due to a 'Malaware' attack.



Can anyone comment?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/09/2011 08:34

Tenaktou, as was said on the thread, a single page directing people to a malware site was added overnight to NCFP's website and was removed within hours and the loophole allowing this was closed.

THERE IS NO MALWARE ON NCFP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe that "certain people" wanted to give the impression that NCFP was a dangerous website because they failed to take it down and if the page had remained there longer then Google may have labelled it as such so that visitors would have received a warning message when they visited.

However, the matter was dealt with swiftly and the temporary danger is no more.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
10/09/2011 08:51

malsancak/Msg 161:



Thank you very much for that specific information - 'straight from the horse's mouth'!



I've been missing my daily 'tonic' of NCFP' due to uncertainty, as I guess many others have.



I wish someone from NCFP had posted the 'all clear' when it had been established that all was well again.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/09/2011 08:58

my message 8 of the thread said "fixed!"

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
10/09/2011 09:35

As Malcolm has said it is PERFECTLY SAFE to access NCFP, I myself was misinformed and Malaware could be Tupperware for all I know. At first I though it was all my fault for accessing it on my page, just shows how little this Luddite knows. I was in a state of panic. Sorry Malcolm, sorry everyone.



There are some very interestimg and informative articles on there now with more to come.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 20:13

Took your advice - still waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 21:10

HildySmith, what advice - waiting for what?

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 23:49

Why not try and stick together ?

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
11/10/2011 23:43

The advice is above from Browneyes and Misunderstood.....



I followed it and......



I am still waiting

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
12/10/2011 01:52

I am confused ?

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
12/10/2011 15:10

Browneyes and Misunderstood 'advised' me to take certain actions -

which I have done!!!!!

I have been awaiting an email from Browneyes since Mid September as promised by the landowner regarding the meeting she attended (as stated above)

Still......waiting ....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
14/10/2011 13:14

Browneyes, Misunderstood - you have suddenly gone quiet - nothing to say???????

Harold2555



Joined: 19/04/2008
Posts: 1139

Message Posted:
14/10/2011 13:42

I am closing this thread as it has definitely gone off topic. Start another re other sites but not to post member specific questions.



H

Harold2555



Joined: 19/04/2008
Posts: 1139

Message Posted:
14/10/2011 13:42

This thread is now closed. Reason: Not specified.