'Eroglu missed a chance to make fools of us'

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 10:32

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/opinions/eroglu-missed-chance-make-fools-us/20100926

girne


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 11:10

in my eyes Eroglu is correct in what he said. There are no refuges left from 1974 all have settled and have their own lives to live now.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 11:16

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/46162.asp

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 11:48

It seem the RoC is the only country in the world which allows people to inherit their parents' refugee status. What a way to run the country. They have come unstuck with that one with the way ECHR defined who can claim a home and who cannot.

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 12:08

Let's all look forward and start to think positively - too many gripes makes one bitter and twisted.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 12:24

Hey AJ.. this is a duplicate post and a few days behind ;)



http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/46162.asp

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 12:26

Hi Yfred



>>It seem the RoC is the only country in the world which allows people to inherit their parents' refugee status. What a way to run the country. They have come unstuck with that one with the way ECHR defined who can claim a home and who cannot.<<



I'm lost here.. are you saying that on death of the original claimant the next of kin can't continue it :o ?!





I think your assertion needs revising ..

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 12:39

6Ms that's exactly what they are doing. Upon their parents death, the children can apply and get Refugee status which mean all sorts of financial help (Up to 50k I beieve). It is difficult to believe I know, but true.

So now you know what the roc has been doing with all the financial assistance they have received from the UN on behalf of the TCs.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 12:42

http://www.indexcyprus.com/site/index.php?option=com_myblog&task=tag&category=150&Itemid=202



Read up on this. RoC will only transfer only the Fathers' staus as refugee so the Mothers are taking the RoC to ECHR for sex descrimination.



You could not write better comedy if you tried.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 12:55

Hi Yfred



now we have two issues here:



1/ you said >>It seem the RoC is the only country in the world which allows people to inherit their parents' refugee status. What a way to run the country. They have come unstuck with that one with the way ECHR defined who can claim a home and who cannot.<<



I said: I'm lost here.. are you saying that on death of the original claimant the next of kin can't continue it :o ?!

I think your assertion needs revising ..



It is OBVIOUS to me that if the ECHR say the house is still yours and 'yours' dies - then his/hers next of kin should 'benefit'. If 'yours' house was in any normal EU state they would benefit...





2/ This particular ECHR case is a 'red herring' re the your assertion that next of kin shouldn't inherit a property - even if it is ( currently) impossible to use.. Naturally, the sex of next of kin shouldn't come into it..

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 12:57

How can someone who was born in ROC, was educated there, probably lives in a more than adequate home, drives a nice car, has a job etc possibly be classed as a refugee, it makes a mockery of the plight of genuine refugees and is an insult. These people need to get a grip on reality and count themselves lucky to have what they have got.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 13:22

6Ms you are confusing house with a home. ECHR ruled that you have to have lived in the home for 14 years to be able to claim as such. This does not take away your right to seek compensation for the house you should have inherited from your parents. However it does stop you from claiming the house as a home back and throwing the current resident out.



You are correct the original claimant can claim the property back as well as compensations, where as the offspring who has not lived in the said home for more than 14 years only has only compensation available.



Does that make sense?

As to the refugee status being inherited only from your father, what more is there to be said?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 13:23

Dear Hattikins - the answer is simple.. they were mostly ethnically cleansed and many of the properties where they live are 'refugee status' housing - they can only 'sell' to another refugee - they can't realise equity from the property ... many of the houses are on TC land.





Hope that clears up your misconceptions

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 17:10

6ms, so the same applies to TC,s who had to move to the north does it, our neighbours had to leave land and property in the south but don't class themselves as refugees, just lucky to be alive. It must be a matter of personal priorities I guess.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 17:12

Usual appeaser 6m's

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 17:41

You learn something new every day, to think that those luxurious villas and swish apartments are refugee housing, well I never.

silentbutdim


Joined: 07/09/2010
Posts: 121

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 19:29

what does "ethnically cleansed" mean?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 19:39

Yes a very charged term usually linked to genocide... moving people around to stop inter-communal violence is seldom justifiably likened to ethnic cleansing.



In this case I think the GC and Greeks would love the world to believe that they were "ethnically cleansed" when in fact this was the firm intention for some of their own number in relation to the TCs.



One day the real truth will be more widely known until then the civilised world seems to have to make do with the GC version of events.



How the south has managed to pull off this sleight of hand is a mystery that only they can wonder at... a bit the man man in court asking for clemency for the murder of his parents given that he was after now an orphan.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 19:54

People were murdered and the argument is about money?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 20:36

I would like to know how many first generation Greek Cypriot 'refugees' are still alive. Anyone know?

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 20:50

For reference - let's look at UK TV programs in the 70s:-

Love thy neighbour - included:-



Jack Smethurst - Alive and kicking.

Rudolph Walker - Alive and kicking

Nina Baden-Semper - Alive and kicking

Kate Williams - Alive and kicking

halffull


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 571

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 21:52

My neighbour is a Turkish survivor with a claim to land in the south and he is only 63

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 22:02

Hattikins re 16



>>You learn something new every day, to think that those luxurious villas and swish apartments are refugee housing, well I never.<<



'luxurious villas / apatments' are not refugee housing... are we to take you seriously ?



If you want to see REAL refugee housing take a trip to ( say) Episkopi near the Western Sovereign bases.. loads of houses built on TC land.. the folks there are from villages in the 'north' and have no equity in these houses and can only pass them on to other refugees ..



AJ re 20



>>I would like to know how many first generation Greek Cypriot 'refugees' are still alive. Anyone know?<<



Why does it matter? Are you another person suggesting the passage of time and the passing of the original disenfranchised Cypriot should mean sleeping dogs should be left to lie ?



How very 'convenient' !



*I* think that we should be looking back to '63 - not '74 - anyway

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 22:02

Paul

Ref message 21:

It was a question not a statement and I do not recognise any of those as being GC refugees.

I will ask again, Is there anyone that knows how many first generation GC refugees are still alive?

This is a serious question.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 22:12

Mark

Can I not ask a serious question?

I will ask again, Is there anyone who knows how many first generation GC refugees that are still alive today?

A simple question and all I require is a simple answer.

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 22:19

Simple answer ???

Not when you ask a question that is impossible to answer

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 22:19

AJ,



>>A simple question and all I require is a simple answer.<<



your response is fair and noted... and I'm sure you would do the same if asked a simple question, right ? ;)





Chillo Bro

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 22:28

I have a simple question, How many fibres in a jumper????



Anybody? No-body?



I rest my case

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 22:29

Blackpoolfan

'Simple answer ???



Not when you ask a question that is impossible to answer'



It is not impossible to answer because the ROC have all of the history regarding refugees. All I want is to know from anyone that has access to the data to inform me as to how many first generation Greek Cypriot refugees are still alive today. Jeez is that simple or not?

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 22:33

AJ - Look at people from the same era of the same age and whether they are still alive and kicking and that gives you an idea.



Washerman 

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 22:35

OK Paul

You seem to have the answer, so give me some figures.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 22:42

How many were there in the first place? Quite a few but not many !? I'd say it will take another 10 years and there wont be any!



Washerman 

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 22:50

Paul

'Quite a few but not many'

So I take that as an 'I do not know' then.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 22:51

No, how many were there in the first place? If we know this, we can work it out with statistics.

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 22:53

AJ,

Can i suggest you try the ROC direct maybe they have a census line, rather that this forum!!!!

And besides does it really matter what the answer is ??? what would be gleaned by knowing is my question??

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 23:02

Blackpoolfan

If you know anything about me then you will know that I have a passionate interest with regards to the 'Cyprus problem' and I am not trying to score any points with my question, all I am trying to do is get some extra information for my studies. It really is that simple and anyone that knows me will tell you likewise. 'To understand the past is to understand the future' Who said that? A free Efes to anyone that comes up with the right answer.

AJ

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 23:09

You are aware i know nothing about you as i don't know you.

I stand corrected sir, as by the script of a lot of your questions i had indeed formed the opinion that it was a point scoring excercise, a thousand appologies please continue.



By the way according to census archive 2001 approximate figure is 792

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 00:58

Msg 36

Stephen Hawking



Richard

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 03:03

AJ, I am afraid there is no official statistics to address your question but here is some math I've worked out based on the following data:



1. No. of GC refugees in 1974 ~ 200,000

2. Mortality rate in RoC ~ 7 deaths/1000 population per year



Assumptions:

1. the transfered population pyramide (age distribution) was more or less symilar to that of today's RoC population

2. actuarial life table (the one that is used to price insurance products) is similar to what is used in developed countries



Result -124,000 are still alive. About half of them are 56 years + in age.



If I have missed something along the way, any corrections or criticism are welcomed.



N.B. Do I deserve a free Efes?

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 15:26

Magbs, surely your mortality rate is incorrect? as it is an overall figure, the mortality rate increases as you get older?

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 17:17

Re 40 Puqwash,



The mortality rate is correct, but you are absolutely right, 7/1000 is a so called crude rate and it regards to the general population. I did not use this figure in my calculation (in fact, it could be only applicable to the first year since the migration, i.e 1974) I used the actuarial table that shows the mortality rate per each age.

I understand that some of my assumptions may be incorrect due to the limited information. Nevertheless, with all uncertainty factors, I guess the overall error would not be more than 20%

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 20:07

AJ

Where's my free Efes or was my answer incorrect!



Richard

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 21:09

Magbs

Thank you for your reasoned and intelligent reply. It is a shame a few more members on this board are not capable of replying with an intelligent answer.



Richard

You need to do a bit more reading. Needless to say you were wrong.

AJ

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 21:19

AJ

Got it, it was a trick question, the answer being YOU DID, as you penned it and no doubt uttered it!

I'm getting thirsty!



Richard

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 21:26

No trick question Richard. I always knew that antipodeans were not well read. Keep trying.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 21:34

Okay, to be erudite you need to know what erudite means!



Richard

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 21:39

Sorry Richard, I did not want to use posh words just in case you did not understand.

Anyway far be it for me to hi-jack my own thread Richard, just let us have some intelligent postings from you on the subject matter. Go on I know you can do it.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 22:11

Dr Carl Sagan? I never studied his works so a little hit & miss on that one!

Bertrand Russell, as a guess.



How about a clue; poet, dramatist, philosopher, politician etc..................



Richard

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 22:44

Alsancakjack. Now that magbs has given you an answer that is possibly as accurate as is known without very protracted research can I be flippant and suggest what could be a 100 % accurate answer. From a GC point of view "too few" and of course from a TC point of view "too many" Oh for an equitable settlement of land issues !

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 22:51

DNA them all! Well, those that purport to be TC's or GC's and that should throw up interesting statistics on final results.



Richard

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 23:05

Brinsley,

Then what???? surely not the Bazoooooooka