Another failure by KAR

Cocklebay


Joined: 26/02/2011
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 11:43

We have had avery large dog dumped outside our property!, he is jumping up at anyone and everything to the annoyance of all the neighbours. One neighbour really hit the Dog with a builders shovel, but it still will not leave the area.

We have asked KAR for help, but they have refused, giving me the advice to shoo the dog away!, they are also fully aware that the last dog dumped here was poisoned.

They have received their last donation from this family. Why are they calling themselves Animal RESCUE!?

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 11:52

As the owner of four dogs, three of which just turned up, as this dog did, please tell me where you live as I will be coming around with a shovel, but not to hit the dog. Kar will only take puppies. as we all know. The dog sounds playful, if you don't want him around then drive him a few miles down the road and release him there. It's not the dog's fault that he's on the streets.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 12:08

'Another failure by KAR' - what are you on as I wouldn't mind a couple of pints of it !!



KAR didn't dump the dog, they only have so much space at the centre and are overcrowded as it is. What do you expect them to do ??



As frontalman says, why not take a bit of responsibility yourself, even better, why not volunteer a bit of your time to work up at the rescue centre so that you get a true idea of the scale of the problem that KAR are trying to deal with.



KAR can claim many more successes than failures and posts like this really don't help their cause.

yrret


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 761

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 12:30

Spot on FMFA and FP

Kar do a great job against all the odds and should be applauded. They are not a personal 'pick up' or 'move on' service. I suggest Cock stands on her own 2 feet and deals with the matter as if KAR did not exist, after all, who would you have called then?

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 12:34

I'm afraid that in order to move the dog on, you have to become as bad as the people who dumped him there in the first place, as suggested in post 2....

swyflot


Joined: 07/11/2008
Posts: 916

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 13:36

yrret

Well said !!!

Cocklebay


Joined: 26/02/2011
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 14:35

I repeat, why are they called Animal RESCUE!? And by the way message 3, we already have 3 rescue dogs and a cat!!and message 4. They do exsist with not only volunteers but salaried staff who should be upholding the aims and objectives of KAR.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 15:16

Message 7



They are called Animal Rescue because they rescue animals.....simples !! However, as said before, there is only so much room at the 'inn' and there comes a point when you have to say no because to accept even more dogs is going to have a detrimental effect on the dogs already housed at KAR. As for some staff being salaried, it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they accept a dog.



Your 'beef' with KAR appears to be based not on their overall performance but simply because they haven't been able to address your particular 'problem'. I personally think that they do a fantastic job under the most difficult of circumstances and shudder to think what the stray problem would be like without them.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 15:25

I am not a fan of replies that simply say 'well said' to a previous post but ....



Well said fiendishpaul.

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 15:37

I have found KAR a tad unhelpfull at times but can't complain about them, I do understand how hard it can be to look after so many unloved dogs etc at times.



Msg 1, a neighbour hitting the dog with a shovel, that is disgusting.

trooper


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 211

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 15:45

perhaps when KAR get funding from the trnc government and other local municipalities then perhaps they can do more than they do now. Until that happens KAR could do with all the help and support they can get.



They DO rescue very many dogs and cats and I have seen the evidence over the eight years that I have lived here but it's obvious to a blind man that there is a limit. As Paul suggesed to the original post - we all have some responsibility for these animals as well not just Margaret and her crew. When we first came here the decision was taken not to have any dogs.....we have three now and most people we know have taken in one or two. Maybe that's that answer not slagging off KAR and refusing ever again to contribute to their coffers.

Cocklebay


Joined: 26/02/2011
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 15:52

Last year we looked after a street dog for over 12 months, however certain people were not happy with this, unfortunately he was eventually poisioned!, KAR were aware of this and know that the current dumped animal is now very vunerable. Please do not suggest that we move it, it is a big dog and we are no spring chickens. Or perhaps you want us to ärrange"for the poor thing to be taken up the mountain. I repeat they are an ANIMAL RESCUE Service and should abide by their aims and objectives.

Yes I agree that they have difficulties, but that is a management problem, not the problem of the vulnerable animals that require some compassion etc.

Cocklebay


Joined: 26/02/2011
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 15:55

Message 11 please read message 7 again! We do have rescue animals ourselves!!!!

Cocklebay


Joined: 26/02/2011
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 15:55

Message 11 please read message 7 again! We do have rescue animals ourselves!!!!

Aslan


Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 757

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 15:57

You not only offend me but also my long lost friends Anne and Reece God bless them. KAR makes every attempt to help and as said earlier is restricted by its size and funding, they need help not people like you jumping to ill advised conclusions on their ethics and working practices. If you have an issue with animal welfare speak to the government office in charge. P R I C K!

Cocklebay


Joined: 26/02/2011
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 16:09

Message 15 I am not questioning their ethics or working practices, just their failure to respond! By the way what does PRICK stand for?

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 16:32

When there is "NO ROOM at the INN", the unfortunates have to make do with the streets......... this is the plight of KAR....A forth while charity, snowed under by demand....and therefore no longer able to function as a "rescue centre," sad but true...I admire their efforts greatly..

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 16:34

Cocklebay

You really are not understanding what KAR are there for are you.

Their prime concern is for sick and injured animals. Where does your situation fit into this scenario?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 16:42

The other problem with how your post come across at least to me cocklebay, is that because they are unable to help in this one specific case, you do appear to be stating that the orgnisation is failing to meets its aims and objectives in general terms, whilst appearing to ignore the 1000's of animals it HAS helped and aided over the many years it has been in existance and the hundreds that it helps month in and month out. When you add in the bit about 'paid staff' it leaves me with an impression, which may be right or may not, that your real issues is not KAR's failure in general terms but actualy just their failure in this one specific case because this one specific case impinges on your life. Sorry if that is unfair to you but that is how it comes accross to me.

Cocklebay


Joined: 26/02/2011
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 16:44

I do understand what KAR are about. The situation here fits into the scenario iin as much that the previous street dog was not popular with certain neighbours and was eventually poisoned, the current animal is continually jumping up at people and has been physically attack by a TC neighbour by being hit with a heavy builders shovel. Do these issues not make the animal very vulnerable and needing protection?

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 16:45

msg18..I didn't know that Dave, The Homeless Hundreds at the rescue centre look pretty healthy to me..

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 16:57

To many puppies perhaps being kept for rehoming...





Not nice, but perhaps this is a situation that should be looked at. I know nobody likes taking the life of a pup, but if so many are being born then homed then abandoned, then left to roam on their own, its an impossible situation all round.



A long hard reshuffle perhaps.... Putting to sleep the puppies, old dogs and very sick ones.... Hard... but the situation could be practically solved within a few years of the barking dogs, unloved dogs and the horrible death by poison ..

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 17:01

Dizzycows it is one thing to suggest that this or that change of policy could enable KAR to help even more animals than it currently does with it's limited resoruces and another thing entirely to suggest that unless it can help every single animal that is in need or potentialy so it is therefore failing in general terms as an organisation, at least as I see things.

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 17:26

I think KAR do an excellent job, but as the pressure from more development, which means more people, KAR is on to a hiding for nothing.



Perhaps in the future things will force a change of policy, who knows ... But at the moment it looks like every one is fed up with stray dogs, the poisoning, dogs always barking. Can it be sustained the current formula? Only those actually involved with the running of it know this answer ...

rolly


Joined: 12/03/2009
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 17:59

will you get the same response when you may become homeless and you are scraping at my door for food a shoval across your head.before you quote anything yes i have taken in strays and fed them and cared for both cats and dogs and i am up to my limit.so dont be so unkind just take it some where safe and feed it before you leave it then you have done all you can and then you can live with your actions.

rolly


Joined: 12/03/2009
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 18:00

will you get the same response when you may become homeless and you are scraping at my door for food a shoval across your head.before you quote anything yes i have taken in strays and fed them and cared for both cats and dogs and i am up to my limit.so dont be so unkind just take it some where safe and feed it before you leave it then you have done all you can and then you can live with your actions.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 18:02

I watched recently a very interesting program on grey wolves. They are only 0.2% different in DNA to your domestic dog. Hence dogs can survive on the streets in packs no problem.



You can't just blame KAR for the current situation, they do what they feel is best.



Lets also blame those vets who won't put a dog to sleep.



Recently we had to deal with a very nasty situation where by a dog had attacked more than once, it had also intimidated humans for quite some time. The vets were contacted as there was only one kind thing to do. All they said was NO,contact KAR. Well KAR are not equipted to deal this. So what were the owners ment to do, be attacked? kick the dog out into the street? So it can be a danger to everyone.? Why is it they, the vets can't just do the decent thing.??



Any dog which is rehomed should be assest for suitablilty, and if found unsuitable put kindly to sleep.

Hopefully then the real dog lovers won't have to mop up the mess! And nobody else will suffer.

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 18:15

Well said blade...



Think the problem all stems from not putting to sleep dogs and cats that are a problem...



Dogs do survive in a pack, but unfortunately they become a problem to humans ...

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 18:39

Too many in this thread don't want to look at the one and only real problem.

Which is (AND WE ALL IN TRNC KNOW IT, BUT SOFTIES DON'T WANT TO NAME IT!): kill the strays (''euthanasia', or 'put them asleep' or etc).

This is thread number 21x4 in the past decennium - it will be the same old, the same old, the same old.

Oh, you think I'm wrong?

Fine.

Tell me. What is the solution then..?!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 18:48

DC this thread as I see it was principaly about KAR's failure as an organisation or not, based on its failure to help in one specific case. In that regard my view is its crazy to say if it does not help every animal in need or potentialy in need then it is a failure. To me if you help 10 animals and dont help another 10,000 that is better than no help for 10,010 animals. In that respect saying KAR is failing as an organisation is not something I agree with. It achieves much of very real benefit to many very real animals whose lives have been improved because KAR are there, some immesurably so and that to me makes it far from a failure and this is true if a long term well managed humane solution to street dogs via systematic etuhenasia of healthy animals is put in place (by someone other than KAR) or if it is not put in place, in my opinion. Either way its still my opinion that KAR in general terms is not failing.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:00

@ msg 30, Erolz: With all due respect. All the words in hundreds (thousands?) of posts on C44 have not helped to solve the problem at all.

Why?

Because most of the locals don't see 'strays' as a problem and expats are too 'soft' to do or acknowledge what is necessary.

And what is neccessary?

'Euthanise' or 'put to sleep' animals nobody want. NOBODY.

How many dogs/cats are in the care of KAR? 100, 200, 300, 500? And how long are these animals there? What's their future? Living and eating because unrealistic people ask for more money to feed them all the time?



P.S. I have two dogs who will get my last Turkish Lira if necessary. And I became a life-time KAR member when I first arrived here. But I'm not blind - KAR is part of the problem.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:11

Erols, to some extent i do agree with you. But it has become clear that KAR only take in puppies and injured dogs. Or spay/neuter and release.

What i am saying is when the s--t hits the fan and someone is in danger from a dog, be it in the street or in the home, who is helping those people.? Most of the vets won't help.

We can't help, neither can KAR help every stray.

Dogs who are not suitable for rehoming should be put to sleep kindly. Its best for everyone.



DC, i am sure you understand where i am coming from.

I am all in favour of rehoming a dog which is suitable but the main issues come when a dog has issues and the new owner, who is possible not an experience dog person has to deal with it.

In the case i have just delt with its a cross bred fighting dog, which has been in a caring/ but unknowing family enviroment. The sort of dog which should only have been in experience hands.

Any dog which is or could be out of control ,or a danger to anyone, should be put to sleep.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:30

The animals that have had their lives immesurably transformed by KAR are not those that end up in the center. It is those that end up homed, in lloving and caring homes both hear and abroad. I do not think it is KAR's aim or job or remit to 'solve' the problem whoever defines what the problem is (cypriots , soft hearted expats of hard hearted ones). I do think it is its remit to make the lives better of as many animlas as it can and to relive suffering for as many as it can. To me as long as it can show it is achieving this, and I think clearly it can, then it is a worthwhile organisation.

Defining what the problem is and 'solving it' once and for all does not change this for me nor do I agree it is KAR part of the problem so we will have to agree to disagree on that point.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:31

by the way reading my last post back, I was actual taught the difference between here and hear at school but by my previous post you would not know it ;)

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:36

Rob

Re message 21:

'The Homeless Hundreds at the rescue centre look pretty healthy to me'



Well they certainly were not quite so healthy when they were taken in.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:41

Is KAR a charity? Does it have membership like the UK RSPCA? Does KAR have published policies so everyone can see what it's stance is? Does it have an AGM, publish a yearly report and it's finances so that people can see for themselves what it's doing?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:44

Hector the answer is to the best of my knowledge yes to all of those, the only one I am not sure about is published policies, but definately yes to all the others.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:45

Ok Erols, (no offence ment) you are a dog.

Your running free with a pack, (your mates and family).

Someone picks you up and your taken to KAR center.



Then your put into a new pack, in a large compound.



If you have ever introduced a new dog into your home pack?, you would understand where i am coming from. It can be nice or it can be the most traumatic thing for you as a dog. Basically everything changes.

Your freedom is taken. your pecking order changes, your food order of eating changes, your agressive/submissive situ changes. Maximum changes for any dog.



As that dog , where would you rather be? Grey wolves live in packs in the wilds they survive. they are so close to our domestic dogs.

What i do think is that dogs in/ native to Cyprus are not as domesticated as dogs of UK/ EU origin. It's genetic, only time and people will change that.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:48

Aj,

How long have you been a experienced dog owner?

Is that your qualified opinion?

Just asking.

trooper


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 211

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:55

If just some of the effort that goes into the negative posts went into something positive for KAR then the problems would have some chance of success. Come on, stop whingeing and get on with doing something about it. In my old Corps you got nil points for moaning but loads for trying to solve the problem - and smiling at the same time - mind you as the old recruiting slogan had it '99 per cent need not apply'......perhaps that applies here too. Shame on you negative buggers.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:56

Blade I am a dog (or cat). I live on the street, craving affection and attention, with uncertain food supply. Sometimes I go hungry for long periods of time. I get ticks and worms and other illness. I do get occasional food and affection from people but often I get shouted at , stones thrown at me, abuse and even hit. I confront many potential dangers. I am sweet natured and not agressive but my life is hard.



Then one day through the efforts of KAR I am living happily in a loving home. I have 'humans' that give me afection and food and and care for me and much more besides.



Where would I rather be ? Back on the street that I know or in my new home here in the TRNC or even overseas ?



Once again - KAR's sucsess stories are not those animals that end up in the center but thopse that are homed. 5 found homes in such a way is better than none. 500 better than 5. 5000 better than 500. I do not know the exactl figure but I know that everyone is a sucsess for the animal and KAR.

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:02

Look to the Vets who to a large extent are blind to the problems (lets face it, the more dogs that are taken in by loving owners, the more clients they have) look to the Government, local authorities and police who won't enact a Cruelty law that has existed since 1947 (?) and look to a huge proportion of TC's and others whereby a dog is just a "tool" to be used or abused, very rarely to be cared for. However if a dog is an expensive pedigree (of which there are few genuine ones here, just gullible buyers) then it will be treated as a pampered pooch until they get bored with it or want to go on holiday. Leave KAR alone, too many demands on its resources, far too many dogs and a population who thinks they can do what is demanded of them, at the drop of a hat.

Becker


Joined: 13/11/2011
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:02

Don't understand the posts"KAR only take puppies n injured".The eight we exercised today were niether of these.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:08

Blade

Re your message 39:

'How long have you been a experienced dog owner?



Is that your qualified opinion?'



Erm which posting of mine are you referring to?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:10

Becker but they may have been when they were originaly taken in. The ones that get places in the center are 'loosers' compared to the ones that get homes.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:17

I think KAR do a good job....( Dave been trying to E-mail you re Fender 12 string)but are overcrowded and hence ineffectual as a rescue centre IMHO

Becker


Joined: 13/11/2011
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:19

erolz,I will stand correcting,doubt that any of these were pups/injured when they were taken in.

Becker


Joined: 13/11/2011
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:20

erolz,I will stand correcting,doubt that any of these were pups/injured when they were taken in.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:25

Aj, the one where you say they are all in good heath or better than they were.



Erols, i will add your comments to my reply also.



I have many customers who have taken/ rescued dogs from KAR who have been in need of worming and tick/ flee treatment. This doesn't worry me, but the possible Leish risk does. People rescue animals and put them into their families, IMHO that puts them at possible risk. You only have to read the research.



Interesting enough in the research program i watched, and this was a suprise to me as well was.

Packs of dogs are a lot healthier than single owned city type dogs. Basically because they live in a pack with close family and friends, they don't often stray outside their pack, hence less chance of infection.



I know KAR can't do it all. Its impossible.

What i do know is we are having a lot of owners with rescue German Shepherds, i see the next generation of rescue as Fighting dogs and Huskies.

Are you all ready for that?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:28

Becker that is also a possibility as well. I do nto really like to speak for KAR in such details because I have no offical standing. However I do believe that the 'policy' of only pups and injured re the center is not something that has always been the case, that is if it is an actual policy. However as I say, if you really want proper authorative answers to questions of policy the best and proper place to get it would be the KAR office I think.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:44

Rob

Re message 46:

Phone me or text me on 0533 8447821

AJ

Becker


Joined: 13/11/2011
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:49

Not trying to question anyones feelings on this subject,just speaking as I find when we visit KAR.Obviously by donations etc.people in general think of it as a worthwhile organisation.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:56

erolz

Re your kind response to my post 36

"Hector the answer is to the best of my knowledge yes to all of those, the only one I am not sure about is published policies, but definately yes to all the others."



Where can one see the KAR annual report, AGM minutes, yearly accounts etc? Are they published online?

dap3081


Joined: 30/01/2011
Posts: 265

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 21:14

Msg40, trooper. Good words, well said. Recently a puppy was dump by our house, we contacted KAR and they asked us to look after the dog until they had room for it. True to their words they later contacted us, but by then 'Sammy' had become part of our family here in TRNC. I like to think I am that 0.1%. And to them negative buggers that have no good to say for KAR I say, keep your head down and mouth shut and...........................think you might know the rest 'trooper'.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 21:15

Blade

Reread the only two relevant posts I have made on this thread (18 & 35) and try to understand what I was saying. Oh by the way the only experience I have had with dogs is from when I was a kid and my dad used to breed German Shepherds and a neighbor of ours had a Rhodesian Ridgeback that I had to look after when he was taken ill and as you may know ridgies are one man dogs so I had quite an exciting time trying to win it over but since then there have always been dogs in my family and even now out here in the TRNC we have a rescued Brindle Staff. So I guess you are right to question my experience with regards to dogs. Do you want to talk to me about cats?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 21:18

Hector they are available publicaly at the anual AGM, to which anyone can attend member or not and ask questions about them. As to their avilablity other than that I just do not know what it is, you would have to contact KAR and ask them, but every year there is an AGM, it is minuted (I assume), the annual accounts are presented, anyone can attend and ask questions about the accounts or policy or other concerncs and issues but only members can vote.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 21:25

erolz

Thanks for that. I've checked the KAR website but the AGM minutes are of the 2009 AGM. Has there been an AGM since then?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 21:30

I believe / understand they are annual. Please do ask KAR and not me, they are the ones who can give the best answers. I can understand how KAR might be less than able to divert scarce resources to keeping their website up to date, than say trying to home animals, but that is just a guess as to why the site only has up to 2009 on it and not minutes or more recent AGMs.

laptajack


Joined: 04/10/2008
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 21:36

re message 53....does that really help the animals..!

Who cares about annual reports etc.

I think KAR do a great job, what would happen to the animals they help, if KAR did not exist?

Also agree with message 29....

westender


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 328

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 21:56

I'm a member of KAR and received a copy of the accounts before the AGM, believe me they make heart-breaking reading. Ask yourselves what the situation would be if KAR had to fold? Who would step in to take its place?

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 04:11

Why don't KAR use donations to pay a pro-rata salary to a Vet who is prepared to euthanase puppies and sick and injured or violent animals, or those that clearly cannot be homed for whatever reason - they should also use donations to engage a Solicitor to continually lobby TRNC Government, until they agree, to introduce a programme to euthanase strays/feral/abandoned animals picked up off the streets, every - say First thursday of the month (if the date is known and kept to - responsible owners could keep their pets inside that day) until this problem is considerably reduced - as has been said - for all the good they do, KAR is also a huge part of the problem...

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 08:54

Ms Garnet, there isn't a problem getting vets to euthanise sick and injured animals - when I volunteered at KAR I took a number of sick dogs to be put to sleep - not a nice task but it was in the best interest of the animals. However, vets will not put healthy dogs to sleep. As for paying a solicitor to continually lobby government, it would be throwing money away that KAR do not have to waste. KAR regularly meet with government officials, are promised the world and nothing of any substance is ever delivered. Par for the course for most of the 'important' issues here in the TRNC methinks !!!!!



If a regular cull of strays were to be organised, it is the responsibility of the government to introduce and execute (forgive the pun) such a programme and I believe it is unfair to infer that KAR are a 'huge' part of the problem. If KAR weren't there, do you think that the stray 'problem' would be better or worse ?? I know what I think and it isn't the former !!

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 11:17

msg 62 "If KAR weren't there ,do you think that the stray problem would be better or worse?"



Obviously it would be worse, but crowding unwanted animals into a remote compound with little hope of re-homing ,is neither improving the animals "Quality of life" nor ultimately solving the problem..Governmental intervention is needed and quickly..

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 11:54

Martin, I couldn't agree more - as my previous post clearly states, it is a governmental responsibility to sort out the problem of the strays on the streets, not the responsibility of a charity.



As for crowding unwanted animals into a remote compound with little hope of rehoming - I take your point but at least they are given a chance of re-homing and whilst I worked up there they rehomed on average approx 3 dogs per week.



KAR do what they can with the limited resources and powers available to them. No one can deny that they have had a positive impact on the stray situation although understandably people want to see the problem eradicated. People need to lobby the government for change but as expats we have no rights so what hope do we have ??

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 12:11

msg64..".Kar on average re-homed 3 dogs per week", that's 156 dogs per year,forgive me for thinking that your averages are a little ambitious..

Marcusharris


Joined: 28/12/2011
Posts: 90

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 12:21

Saw a dog which had been run over & in pain, called car for help & they didnt want to know. So took the poor fella to a vet in kyrenia. The vet took him in a looked after him, a few days later he was getting

Much better. I got a call being asked for 450 tl !!! Said it was not my pet & could not afford to pay... Vet decided to put him down.... Well done KAR......

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 15:40

Last week a Girne vet refused to put to sleep a dog which had attacked another dog nearly killing it. Not for the first time. Was out of control intimidating humans and the owners just couldn't cope.

Is that a healthy dog??



Don't get me wrong i am in no way a fan of KAR, but they do in there own way try to help animals. Even if they only cover the sea side areas of the TRNC.

My local gov do actually act if the strays become a problem, well done them for taking sensible steps.



My thoughts are that whilst we continue to mop up the stray dogs, the goverment will still sit back and do nothing.

Micropchipping and a data base is the way forward. Make people take care of their animals and be responcible. There is a system like this of kinds at the Gov vets department. But until it is complusary nothing will change. Instead of just registering dogs with a tag, it should be law to do them with a chip.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 15:42

AJ, we do have a few cats which stay now and then. But if it comes to cats, you can explain all to me!

Marcusharris


Joined: 28/12/2011
Posts: 90

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 16:20

I agree kar do things in there own way, good to have them

But I think there are to many fingers in the pot... They could / should be able to do more... But we are all

Entitled to our own opinions.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 16:57

Martin



Re message 64. I can only comment on what I experienced. The fact that the centre is always full to the brim is not purely because no animals get rehomed - animals are rehomed and probably on a more frequent basis than people realise.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 17:25

Re Microchipping:



(1) My 15 year old Cyprus Terrier developed a lump on her back last year. Vet said it could be cancer, recommended surgery to remove but said that if it were cancer there was no treatment available here.

In view of the age of the dog and the state of my bank balance I decided to do nothing as the dog was not apparently suffering. Fortunately when I had another VEt attend another dog I asked his opinion.

He ran the microchip reader over the terrier and said the chip had migrated. Chip removed (rather traumatic at her age) , dog fully recovered and still going strong.



I havent had her re-chipped and am dithering whether to have the new puppy chipped..



contd.............................

Marcusharris


Joined: 28/12/2011
Posts: 90

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 17:27

Has this thread not been adressed or is it not accusing KAR? Why is it still running & other threads get shut down?

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 17:43

continued from Message 71



A story on Yahoo today tells of a cat missing from home a long time returned on Christmas Day. Lovely story but it appears the cat was found along way from home, and cared for by the finders until the RSPCA had a vacancy in their santuary. Only when room was available was it discovered the animal was microchipped and the owners contacted.



hOW many animals are left/returned to the streets or unnecessarily rehomed because no one checked for microchip Should not KAR at least look at the animal and check for chips ...and diseases.

westender


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 328

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 17:49

Marcusharris, if you think KAR could/should do more, why don't you get involved yourself & volunteer your own time?

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 17:50

Message 73



The problem is the post has not been addressed! Several people have sprung to KARs defence but admitted they had no authority. KAR have not made an official statement.



KAR depend on people giving them money and making considerable financial and other sacrifices to care for stray animals. They have a public duty to explain their actions to those who support them.



Holding an AGM for members only at a time and place that is not possible for many to attend, and making their accounts available only on that occasion does not meet the need for public accountability.

Their arrogance in this and other aspects loses them a lot of public support.

itfc1978


Joined: 31/03/2009
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 18:04

What loses them support is the nonsense posted in message 69



"But I think there are to many fingers in the pot... They could / should be able to do more... But we are all

Entitled to our own opinions."



People continually make false and unproven accusations. And no you are not entitled to an opinion which makes claims you cannot back up.



"Holding an AGM for members only at a time and place that is not possible for many to attend, and making their accounts available only on that occasion does not meet the need for public accountability.

Their arrogance in this and other aspects loses them a lot of public support."



Anyone can attend the AGM.

Venue is advertised in the press beforehand and of course you could take the drastic action of actually phoning the office for date and venue.



The venue is as central as KAR can afford,which I suspect is a point you completely miss anyway,the room has to be paid for out of funds.

The accounts can be seen by anyone in the office.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 18:22

itfc - very well said



Next they will be wanting KAR to pay for minibuses to transport people to the AGM, lay on a free dinner (with drinks) and if they don't then they (KAR) will be accused of hiding something !! You couldn't make it up.



Bizzi - Why do KAR need to make a public statement ? - if they had to make a public statement every time that they were contacted re a stray animal, they would never get anything done.



I don't know what actions you want them to explain. As itfc states, go to the AGM and all will be revealed and if it isn't, then you can pose any questions to satisfy your curiosity.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 18:31

Oh thank you so much Message 76. So you are kindly offering to come and "babysit" my dogs (who cant be left outside unattended because of the risk of poison), so that I can leave them long enough to make the journey and attend the long winded AGM and/or make the difficult jouney to the Centre.



There are lots of reasons (which people do not necessarily wish to advertise on a public forum, particularly one that has such insensitive members) why people who care and make sacrifices for animals cant attend the AGM etc. That you make such a sweeping statement says more about you than them - and none of it to your credit, just as KARs attitude is a disincentive to people who would otherwise support them.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 18:49

BizziLizzi

I will make you an offer you cannot refuse (or maybe you will). When the next AGM is announced I will be willing to organize some one to look after your dogs and also organize transport to and from the venue for you. That way you might have a better understanding of what KAR is all about and you can ask any questions that you may feel are pertinent.

cleos


Joined: 13/03/2008
Posts: 77

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 19:44

Not only did KAR hold its usual AGM last year - it also held an Open Forum. It was publicised, it was during the day, it was in a venue that was central, it was open to EVERY BODY who wanted to attend and ask questions, make reccomendations about the way KAR is run and hear why it does what it does.

How many turned up ??? Less than 10 members of the public ! Says it all really doesn't it - it is so easy to sit here and tap tap tap away but when it comes to putting themselves out for what they constantly tap tap tap about - OH no that is just too much trouble/they can't do it its too far away/ they have noone to look after their dogs/they haven't read todays newspaper/they may have ironing to do !!! But they will still sit here and tap tap tap away.

Pathetic.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 20:24

Ladies and Gentlemen, it's not about what KAR do, it's about what they are now unable to do...KAR are by their own admission overloaded with strays..What started as an Animal Rescue Centre is now simply a" Home on the Hill" for Hundreds of unwanted Dogs.....KAR do very good work with cats (N/R), but it's the dog problem that weighs them down to the point of being ineffective as a "Rescue"centre...In my view Euthanasia is the only solution for many of the long term inhabitants of the centre...after all Quality of life comes before Quantity..Some of the dogs incarcerated there have been there many Years..

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 21:58

I agree with MartinD41.

Again the dog problem in the TRNC causing distress anxiety.

Too many dogs, too many irresponsible owners, too few solutions, too little action.

If the dog in question was, for example, the wearer of a dog tag with details of owner/guardian.Then the trail of responsibility could be followed and action take.

It is very likely that the animal has been dumped to fend for itself, much to the annoyance of the topic poster.

Extra resources for KAR will simply make the dumping of cats and dogs a much easier option to bored ,irresponsible owners. How many animals can be cared for? When do you stop?

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 22:14

Martin/WAZ



KAR also neuter and return dogs, not an ideal solution admittedly but it has contributed significantly to the decline in the number of strays.



I am disappointed that KAR keep being mentioned in the same sentences as euthanasia/culling etc when it is NOT their remit to do such a thing - in fact they would probably be breaking the law if they were to pursue such a practice. Rather than vilify KAR for their actions, why not try lobbying those who can change the law - the government.

SWCathy


Joined: 22/11/2011
Posts: 292

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 22:29

I contacted KAR on 20 December regarding a small ferel cat which lives on a tank in my garden. I have fed him for 18 months. I was not able to stroke him until very recently and then, only when I was feeding him. I noticed that he had become matted with something and that he was foaming at the mouth. I contacted Kar and the Cat catchers came and I managed to catch him and they took him to a vet. the said they would have him neutered and asked if I was prepared to pay for any other treatment - I said I was happy to pay for any treatment he needed. They contacted me regularly to give me an update, he had 2 infections one in his mouth and one general one. He was on a Drip for a few days and on a heated pillow - Sadly he died. I have a lot to thank KAR for. Tiger died in comfort, warm and cared for, THANKS TO KAR!!!!!

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 23:18

Msg 83

Paul,

You are absolutely right.

I do not hold, in anyway, KAR responsible. They must indeed be commended for their excellent work.



However, their work does not solve the dog problem in the TRNC. Infact the problem is more a human one in that irresponsible dog owners allow dogs to irritate and annoy others. If you cant control them then dont keep them!!



All I ask, is to be able to walk, ride my bike and generally enjoy the TRNC without the almost daily irritating and annoying encounter with a badly behaved, overly terretorial dog.

chriswife


Joined: 30/03/2011
Posts: 449

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 23:24

I have found KAR a tad unhelpfull at times but can't complain about them, I do understand how hard it can be to look after so many unloved dogs etc at times.







Msg 1, a neighbour hitting the dog with a shovel, that is disgusting.

agrre all

chriswife


Joined: 30/03/2011
Posts: 449

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 23:30

hi can someone clarify if there is a dog around that is vicious is there no authority to impound and ethanise as in uk dangerous dogs act bad if is the case however i have only come across over playful attaentive strays so far.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 23:59

Message 79 Ok Put a message on this Board before the next AGM and provided I am well, and my other obligations (including to another Charity dont obtrude) and I am satisfied my dogs and home will be in responsible hands, I will take you up on it. Be warned, I shall be asking quesions about why KAR dont do more to encourage responsible animal ownership and to discourage the importation and breeding of dogs , particularly large and dangerous dogs. Are you going to do the same for other owners and people who dont have transport. And what about people who are working - for pay or voluntarily during the day?

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 00:16

Message 82. Responsible dog owners are also very upset about the irresposible ones - they make life even more difficult for us- and it is hard enough already with people like some on the forum having no compassion or understanding.



There are a lot more responsible owners than irresponsible ones. The problem is that there are a lot of caring people who take on animals out of sheer kindness of heart without realising the problems that dog ownership involves and without the ability, facilities or or knowledge to care for them properly. And the expats are an aging population and older people who would actually benefit from the company of a pet are deterred because there is no one to help if they themselves fall ill. Someone tried to start a mutual assistance organisation but it seems to have disappeared from lack of support - so much easier to sit at a computer or in a bar moan about strays than offer to help someone homing strays excercise

and train them. cont........

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 00:46

There is no help or guidance for people taking on animals out of kindness. And no facilities. I recently took on a new puppy because its owner returned to the UK. With my other dogs being 15 and 8years old, I had forgotten how difficult it is now to train a puppy with no where safe to take them outside the garden for lead training and the problem of watching the others while I concentrated on teaching the new one.



A lot of education is needed of the public - not just the locals the expat population. And support and advice for new owners, Instead of concentrating on pure breeds,and appearance, why dont KAR use their annual show to give demonstrations of training, obedience classes etc. And have a stall proividing a surgery and leaflets giving advice on feeding, bedding, training etc. - I am sure some of the Vets would help and there must be people here who have experience of dog training and might be persuaded to give half a day to a good cause

swyflot


Joined: 07/11/2008
Posts: 916

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 08:26

I am sure that if you put your question in writing ,it could be read out at the AGM.

I would like to ask what kind of dogs you have,that need the sort of namby pamby type of treatment you are giving them,you don`t seem to be treating them like dogs,but as spoiled children.

swyflot


Joined: 07/11/2008
Posts: 916

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 08:40

I am sure that if you put your question in writing ,it could be read out at the AGM.

I would like to ask what kind of dogs you have,that need the sort of namby pamby type of treatment you are giving them,you don`t seem to be treating them like dogs,but as spoiled children.





Just thought of a way to satisfy all the complainers and help the animals and also to enable KAR to work efficientlly, someone donate £1 MILLION TO K.A.R.,no that would not work,because as soon as a volunteer bought something new they would be accused of dipping their fingers in the till.



As you close the curtains at night and, turn the heating up. A THOUGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some very bad weather this past week,anyone out there want to help me build some new portable kennels for the dogs at the centre,half a day would get 3 built,we need 40 otherwise some of the dogs are going to have cold and wet time of it this winter

cleos


Joined: 13/03/2008
Posts: 77

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 10:52

don't be daft swyflot - that would mean "putting" themselves out and doing something - it is obvious that some of the posters on this thread can't possibly do that !

I wonder what Cocklebay (instigator of this thread) did about the neighbour who hit the dog with a builders shovel ? Nothing i expect because that would have meant doing something !

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 11:23

Bizzi,

Sorry i hear about your microchip problem. Clearly it was an old chip and i don't disagree that they can migrate.

A couple of years ago i purchased in the UK a large number of EU quality microchips and brought them back here for my vet. Some of the older kind are not readable now adays and he wanted to make sure he had current ones. They are from the pet detect company who also have a database for pets in the UK.

He also has the latest reader.



I agree that a lot of the problems here stem from people taking on a dog out of kindness, who are not dog people so to speak. There is a training group running now and i would suggest all people new to dogs go along.



I also have a new puppy, with two older dogs. So i know where your coming from, you do forget what pups can get up to. But with the right training they should grow into well mannered adults.

Cocklebay


Joined: 26/02/2011
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 13:01

Cleos I have done my share for KAR 3 rescue dogs and a cat. So please stop talking out of your rear end! The neighbour was dealt with by the way!

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 18:18

Bizzi



'Ok Put a message on this Board before the next AGM and provided I am well, and my other obligations (including to another Charity dont obtrude) and I am satisfied my dogs and home will be in responsible hands, I will take you up on it.



Maybe, whilst AJ is there he could also do your washing and ironing for you as well !!



What do you do when you go to the supermarket ? - do you get someone in to look after your dogs and ensure that your house is secure and in responsible hands ??



Finally, please explain to me why KAR are in the slightest bit responsible for discouraging the importation and breeding of dogs - isn't this a function of government ? As for encouraging responsible ownership, KAR conduct visits to local schools where they try to teach these skills to the children. I trust this meets with your expectations ??

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 18:22

Cocklebay surely taking in three dogs and a cat is doing something for the animals concerned and not for KAR ? Would you think getting a dog from Battersea dogs home is 'doing your share' for Battersea dogs home ?

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 18:23

Blade: Bless you for a thoughtful, constructive post - to make a change here!



Yes, the microchip must have been about l0 years old. I really mentioned it to warn others who might have similar problems with a dog, to look for that as a cause.



I dont go to England, but have a good vet who is very up to date so will be talking to him about microchipping the new "baby"



Yes, we forget what a load of mischief puppies can be! That is why inexperienced people taking on dogs need help. I tried obedience classes for both my older dogs, but found they covered the basic sthat I had already taught - and all assumed one dog at a time, I needed help training two to walk together. They are however a good idea for new owners , but are not always convenient and of course not free - people struggle as it is to afford vets etc. We need more mutual help - but there has tobe a coordinator and KAR could do more.



The new puppy, forunately, is intelligent and willing (not all strays

Cocklebay


Joined: 26/02/2011
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 18:28

Message 97, yes taking some of the pressure off of KAR! Battersea Dogs Home is not in the equation!, too far away surely?

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 18:34

cont..are) and has already learned Stay, Sit, Come and to trot round the garden at heel on a lead. It helps that she adores and shadows one of the older dogs, who is a good natured and well mannered animal and sets a good example. But now she needs to get out and learn manners in public with distractions, and there is no where convenient to take her, particular with two others who cant be left behind. All the quiet village streets where I trained the others are full of dangerous traffic and the open spaces where the others used to run free are covered in concrete .

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 18:37

It just struck me as a strange idea that deciding to take in animals was 'doing your bit' for the orgnaisation. As for it taking the pressure of them a bit, the reality is that taking in animals from them releases no pressure as for every one homed there are many many waiting to take their place. Its a great result for the animals but does not really make any difference to the day to day running of KAR. It is KAR's objective to facilitate such great results for animals but if the only 'help' people gave to KAR was to 'take in animals' then there would be no KAR at all for them to take them in from.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 18:48

To the others who prefer to dig at people who are doing something rather than help themselves:



My dogs are friends and good companions but although they have a much better life than a street or hunting dog they are not pampered pets. I deliberately bought a house with a garden so I could leave dogs safely in the garden. Unfortunately since the Brutish (NOT a typo) invasion followin the Annan plan the garden is no longer safe for them and to the detriment of their lifestyles and mine, they have to be shut indoors for safety - which means no more than 3 hours away from home for me fortunately enough to get to the Supermarket etc. but a problem with hospital appointments and attending long meeting with traffic delays. etc.



By caring for dog (and in her case a cat) Cocklebay and others who look after strays (sometimes even more God bless them) reduce the strain on KAR and give the animals a better home than they (with the best will in the world) could hope to. I have spend hun

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 19:01

hundreds if not thousands of pounds on strays since I lived here - far more than those who make such a to do about making a donation of a few lira! The same would apply if we lived in the Uk and took a dog off the street or for a Charity there. The difference is the resposible UK charities ensure the people who take dogs get suitable ones and are able to care for them, and support and advise them.



As for some of the insulting comments about asking people to do my ironing for them - get real! Would you after reading this thread be prepared to let someone from it into you home and care for animals ?

Cocklebay


Joined: 26/02/2011
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 19:09

Message 101. Whatever!

Cocklebay


Joined: 26/02/2011
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 19:10

Message 101. Whatever!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 19:16

Taking an animal from KAR or off the street does not 'reduce the strain' on them. Sorry but it does not. It is KAR's objective to home animals, transforming the life for that animal for the better. It is a great result for them but it does not make the 'strain' on them any less. KAR does it best to ensure that both animals and human 'taker' are suitable and support them as best they can after. I know of many cases where KAR has declined to home a given animal with a given person / home because it was felt it was not suitable. Are they perfect in their efforts to match animal with owner ? No they are not but to say they make no effort in this regard is just not true.

For the record we have 3 adpted stray dogs and 19 adopted stray cats. Does that mean we have 'done our bit' for KAR and can not bother with the temporary housing any more of hundreds of others (and if you think 100's is exageration have a look here [cont]

SWCathy


Joined: 22/11/2011
Posts: 292

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 19:19

I am currently running a

DOG OBEDIENCE CLASS each

THURSDAY at 1.00 PM AT

THE CAR BOOT FIELD - Behind the Pine Bay



THIS THURSDAY - NO ONE CAME

So I, only assume that ALL of the dogs in TRNC are well behave and respond to their owners as they clearly do not want/need this service

The Cost is 10tl ALL of which goes to KAR in order to cater for he hundreds of dogs they have in the KAR Centre. I know how full it is as I go (UNPAID) every wednesday to do a food run. We drive to the Hospital, Schools and University in Lefkosa to pick up the waste food from the kitchens to feed the dogs.

KAR is OVERCROWDED.

If anyone feels that they can get one more dog in, then please take a dog away, give it a home and then they can get one more dog in.

SWCathy


Joined: 22/11/2011
Posts: 292

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 19:20

I am currently running a

DOG OBEDIENCE CLASS each

THURSDAY at 1.00 PM AT

THE CAR BOOT FIELD - Behind the Pine Bay



THIS THURSDAY - NO ONE CAME

So I, only assume that ALL of the dogs in TRNC are well behave and respond to their owners as they clearly do not want/need this service

The Cost is 10tl ALL of which goes to KAR in order to cater for he hundreds of dogs they have in the KAR Centre. I know how full it is as I go (UNPAID) every wednesday to do a food run. We drive to the Hospital, Schools and University in Lefkosa to pick up the waste food from the kitchens to feed the dogs.

KAR is OVERCROWDED.

If anyone feels that they can get one more dog in, then please take a dog away, give it a home and then they can get one more dog in.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 19:21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVWA9g99VRU which is just one lot of 'fostered kittens' that we (my partner really) did for several years. Can my partner also now forget the 10's of housr a WEEK, standing in the rain on supermarket begs and at Lambousa stall and previously cat catching, for N&R and countless other things for KAR because as a voluanteer 'we have done out bit' for them by taking in stray animals ?

I am not in the habit of discussing in public what we personaly do and have done for chartities in general or KAR in particular, but it seems to be the flavourr of this thread for some so I have done so here against my usual habit.

Cocklebay


Joined: 26/02/2011
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 19:36

Again Whatever!

Shawood


Joined: 29/06/2010
Posts: 85

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 19:38

Ref MSG92 (SWYFLOT)



Stuart. You have Email.............................



Some positive stuff on this thread but far too many "egotistical rants". So check your email, and let me know what you think



Cheers

Shawood


Joined: 29/06/2010
Posts: 85

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 20:05

Ref msg 92 (Swyflot)



Stuart



Your email bounced. Give me a buzz on 05338 253502 from Mon PM.



Cheers



Nigel

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 20:21

BizziLizzi

Re your message 88.

That was a genuine offer from me to you and I would suggest if you are serious about going to the next AGM then you tell me when and where and contact me by e-mail. Or if you want I can give you a total package and include booking your next holiday for you but you might have to think about your intended destination, oh and by the way you are right and I should offer to give the same service to everyone. In fact I am just going out to look for a suitable bus/coach at my own cost just to make sure those that cannot be bothered to sort out their own arrangements are catered for.

Beggars belief!

lionel


Joined: 21/04/2011
Posts: 179

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 20:22

FFS IMAGINE HERE WITHOUT KAR!!!!!! ....get a grip....... realise KAR is not GOD. they do all they can, within the limits given to them?

No i dont always agree when i see a starving tagged animal.................unless i get off my butt and do something (feed it, worm it)how can i expect a charity, with so many animals , to answer all my prayers????.





everyone is so quick to judge...kill them ...not in my back yard.....you chose to live here.....its an ongoing problem, which we should as IMMIGRANTS , understand and help !!!!!!!!!! not hinder and slag off on Cyprus44!

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 00:14

AJ With your attitude to other people's problems I wouldnt take a crust off you in I were starving. And sadly I dont feeel that most of the people here are the sort I would wan tot give me email or any other personal details to.



AS for holidays , I spend my holiday money on dogs, and unlike some people here if I cant afford something I do without so you neednt bother booking anything for me

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 00:32

Erolz



Those who really care about animals does what they can according to their ability. I happen to feel that kennels are not a long term solution to stray dogs, and more should be done support and advise those willing to give them a home. I have previous experience of dogs and enjoy their company so I do get some compensation for the sacrifices , but the attitude of the new people to dogs and lack of understanding of the problems of dog ownership is making it much harder. More important, I have know people with no experience home unsuitable dogs from KAR out of kindness and because the dog was pathetic - result traumatic for dog and owners -I am glad to hear they do check in some cases but that is not what I have witnesssed. I have also witnessed and experienced complete lack of charity on the part of KAR. I know they have problems including money - so do other equally worthy causes, but dont treat them a they were above criticism - it may actually be constructive

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 01:15

It is very clear to me that several posters are genuine animal lovers with noble intention towards dogs.



It is very apparent too however that the situation is out of control and currently beyond redemption.

Too many dog owners just cannot be bothered viz. Dog obedience class mesg. 107...No one turned up!!



Dare I say it, but a significant cull, regulation of ownership, dog licensing (with cost) is a possible path to a manageable and sustainable dog population.

the2ofus


Joined: 13/02/2008
Posts: 637

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 01:36

Could I ask the mods - has this thread been addressed ? Is it serving any purpose now ?

Why is it now about individuals as opposed to the original thread Heading ?

It is surely time to close it - why are some endless threads allowed to keep going. serving no purpose except to reiterate certain members opinionated views.

Purpose of keeping it open is ???? !!!

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 02:23

Taken from KAR website:-



"The aims of the K.A.R. are clearly stated on their website http://www.kyreniaanimalrescue.org and go into more detail of ways in which people can help even if they do not have time to be a ‘hands on’ volunteer. Life Membership is given to those who donate £50. This permits the member to view the society end of year accounts. They will be circulated with copies of AGM minutes and will be allowed to vote. It is K.A.R. policy to never kill a healthy animal and it is a policy that is expensive to maintain. Becoming a volunteer means joining an increasing group of like-minded people who will do anything required of them to help the animals."

Probably Cleo, why barely anyone attends meetings, it would be pointless as ONLY paid up members can hope to change the way KAR does things - ONLY paid up members can view end of year accounts - ergo -KAR will never change and TRNC will eventually be sink under the weight of feral, albeit neutered, animals...

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 02:59

BizziLizzi I do not treat KAR as if they are above critisim. I do try and defend them from unfair attacks. Attacks like 'finger in the pie' and the organisation is a failure based on the fact that they failed to act in one specific case and that ignores the the other cases where KAR work has trasnformed the lives of thousands of animals for the better. To give another example KAR is about vastly more than 'kennels'. They have homed vastly more animals than are in the kennels. They have provided medical care to vastly more animals than are in the 'kennels'. They have netured vastly more animals than are in the kennels. They run a schools program that educates and seeks to change attitudes long term. They have relieved the suffering of vastly more animals than those in the 'kennels'. Yet you suggest that all they do is put a few animals in kennels and home them in approriate homes. Constructive critisism is one thing. Outright attacks based on incorrect assumtions is another thing.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 03:23

MsGarnet, anyone can attend the AGM, member or not. One of the principal functions of the AGM is the presentation of that years audited accounts, to all that are present member and non member alike. Only member can vote but anyone can raise issues.

Have you heard of the UK organisation the RSPCA ? Can anyone attend their AGM ? No, only fully paid up members can. Can any member raise an issue for discussion at their AGM ? Yes they can provided they have given written notice of the resolution to the chief executive at least 28 days before the date of the AGM and the Council forms an opinion that the proposal or discussion of such resolution “will not be detrimental to the interests of the Society”. How much is a lifetime membership ? 750 pounds.



So this (msgarnets post 119) bizzilizzi is exactly the kind of unfair (imo) attack that I seek to counter with facts. Accounts are provided to members, because its their money being spent but anyone can hear the AGM [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 03:31

review of the accounts. That is the reality but it is 'spun' as 'only paid up members can view the accounts' as if they are secret from everyone else. They are not secret. KAR has a duty to provide them to those who's money it is and they do. Everyone else can know whats in them by attending the AGM. MsGarnet's post makes out that it somehow 'outreagous' that only paid up members can vote, yet this is how every orgnaisation that is properly run, from the RSPCA downwards operates. In fact KAR is more open to non members at its AGM than the RSPCA is and allows not only members to raise issues for discussion, without written notifcation or prior approval from the orgnaisation itself, but also non members. Yet this is spun as if it is somehow outreagous that only members can vote. These are not constructive critisms, they are outright attacks and in my experience more often than not the result of a personal grudge from KAR failing to solve a person problems and not an animals.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 03:40

Finally for the record there are aspects of KAR's policies and operation that I personaly do not agree with but what I do not do is ignore the fact that, despite my disagreement, they have transformed the lives of countless animals for the better, relieved the suffering of countless animals and do much that is of value far beyond the 'rescue center'.

Constructive critism I have no problem with, though I do beleive that anyone who genuinely wanted to offer constructive critisim in the hope that it would lead to a better KAR, rather than slate it in the hope that it would lead to KARs destruction, would not seek to use these forums to express their critisim.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 15:06

Are KAR doing home checks on people before letting dogs go to their new homes? This is usual practice with the animal rescues i have worked with in the past.



We see lots and lots of dogs and i also can't believe that the training class had nobody turn up!

If anything your puppies would gain from the socialisation aspect of meeting other dogs in a controlled enviroment. Dogs also settle better once they have had some fresh air!

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 15:16

erol-ATTEMPTING to patronise or condescend to me will never work. RSPCA accounts can be viewed on-line;tocompare UK (peopled by millions) RSPCA to TRNC KAR (few thousand) is beyond ludicrous. Our media could sway RSPCA tenets if enough citizens got involved, KAR is run by tunnel-visioned folk with NO intention of changing their paradigms, thus it will remain that TRNC will sink under the weight of homeless animals that you, and they, heavily anthropomorphise. No-one would put a child in the road and say - get on with it, find your own food and shelter and protection from bullies, or cars or attacks from other dogs-sexual and/or aggressive, if you get hurt, mildly or badly, or terminally ill, up to luck if anyone finds out and helps. It is NOTHING short of MADNESS to put animals on the street and hope they will find sanctuary for their LIFETIMES, being neutered doesn't alter that. A major cull needs to be carried out - KAR would never support that, so I would never support KAR.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 16:18

MsGarnet



With respect, you seem to believe that you have all the answers. Bearing in mind that vets will not euthanize healthy animals and pretty much every promise given to KAR by the government has come to naught. What is the answer ??



Please, when answering, I would like to know what KAR can do (legally and within their current budget) that would result in less dogs/cats on the streets and a better educated local populace.

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 21:05

Msg # 125 was cut/paste directly from KAR's inflexible 'net' statement of intent. It's hard for a Vet, trained to uphold life, to take a life - yet keeping an animal kennelled or dumping them on the street drives it slowly mad, its tantamount to the worst type of cruelty. Abandoned/unwanted animals need more than food, water, and shelter; they also need loving care, regular and sustained companionship, respect for their individuality, and the ability to run and play in safety. As difficult as it is to accept, euthanasia facilitated by vets or trained animal shelter professionals with a painless intravenous injection of sodium pentobarbital is the most compassionate and dignified way for unwanted animals to leave a world that has abandoned them. I feel KAR should lobby DAILY the TRNC Gov. to implement this, but they don't, as they don't believe the foregoing! I support via a C44 member, some dogs in TRNC by sending Frontline drops etc-longterm as effective as nailing jelly to the wall!

gemzy4


Joined: 07/01/2012
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 21:45

KAR takes the money that we give for the animals! they tag the poor dogs then throw them back out again whats the damn point of that or they just put the poor animals down if they are a puppy or a adult or whatever that bullshit is! what makes me laugh is that with all the money that they are taking from us WHY dont they just get a bigger place for the animals as thats what they should be doing not putting them down and putting them back on the street!!!!

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 21:57

gemzy4. Do you think KAR would ever find a big enough place to house the number of stray animals there?

lionel


Joined: 21/04/2011
Posts: 179

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 00:11

KAR IS A RESCUE CHARITY...NOT A HOLOCAUST CAMP!!!!!!!!!

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 00:21

Bitches first come into season between six and twelve months, and at similar intervals thereafter for the life of the bitch, although fertility decreases with age . The average litter is six puppies. I dont know any limit to the amount of pups an entire male dog can sire.



Say the average breeding life of a stray bitch is five years and 4 puppies survive that is 20 pups growing up and breeding another 20 each - well you do the maths for bitches. For dogs is it infinite. Then multiply by four or five dogs during the carers stay in Cyprus.



That is the number of dogs that a responsible owner adopting stray animals and neutering them at their own expense (and it is expensive particularly for bitches) saves KAR being asked to deal with



Apart from the cost in time, energy and money - particularly in Vets fees and medicines - expended in giving the first dog a better life then kennels. contd..................

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 00:26

How on earth can any decent, intelligent person vilify and make difficulties for those taking these poor animals off the streets. And how can any resposible Animal Charity with the best interests of the beasts at heart fail to institute a programme to support , help , advice , educate and protect such carers without putting them to further unbearable expense?

westender


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 328

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 01:13

Mes 127, so KAR should lobby the government daily? Er and who should take up this time consuming task, I think the staff/volunteers have more than got their hands full, maybe you would like to volunteer your services? No,I thought not.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 01:29

Blade KAR do not do home visits, they do what they can with the resources they havewhen they home an animal, namely they interview the person seeking the animal and if they are suitable from that interview they will home the animal with the person and if they feel the person is not suitable or not suiotable for a particular animal they do not. It is not a perfect system but KAR do not have the resources to do a full home visit before homing an animal. Of course if you were willing to volunter say a day a week specificaly to do home visits for prospective adopters I am sure KAR would jump at the chance.



MsGarnet the fact remains that KAR is more open to non member involvement than the RSPCA is. Yes it is true that, unlike the RSPCA, accounts are not on their website, though minutes of AGM are within the limits of keeping this up to date. Those accounts ARE availalbe to any member and if I thought for one mintue it would make any differnce to you I would get them and make a copy [cont

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 01:37

of them and delvier them to yo0u at my own expense in money and time. Of course if I were to do this it would not stop your attacks on KAR so it is hard to know why one should bother. If you want to change KAR policy then become a member , seek election to the comittee and seek to change it's policies that way. If you just want to create as much negative impressions of KAR in others as you can continue as you always have. Ms Garnet you claim I anthropomorphise and then go on to say 'no one would put a child in the road and say...'. Indeed no one would but then neither would any sane person argue that it is better for a homless, parentless street child in any number of developing nations , who will face almost certain hunger and illness and premature death would be best humanely put down for its own benefit, rather than remain a street child.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 01:47

Gemzy4 taking an animal from the streets, be it feral or abandoned, and putting it in the center is not a good result, not for the animal and not for KAR. The quality of life for an average dog in the KAR shelter is arguably worse than as a netured street dog. Increasing shelter capacity, even if the funds to do it AND then maintina running it could be found, solves nothing and does not improve the life of animals. If the shelter did not exist then KAR would still have improved the life of countless animals through rehoming, through medical treatment and neutering and returning of street animals, through humane euthenasia of animals injured beyond medical treatment and through its eductational activites in schools.



BizziLizzi I do not understand what you are talking about ? Who are these 'carers' that KAR is failing to support ? Who is villifying whom (according to you)? Do you have any idea how much KAR spends on Vet fees and medicene to improve the life and reduce the [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 01:48

suffering of animals that would not get such without KAR ?

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 13:52

It is beyond comprehension that to all of us who say we would NEVER condone the paradigms KAR refuse compromise on (UNTIL those at the top leave, making way for those that live in the present, and whose eyes are NOT wide shut) we are told to give up our time to volunteer, or contribute financially, or in some way shape or form - support the indefensible - which is - putting animals (neutered? so what - just means a few less animals will be produced to live in utter misery) onto the street - NO voice box, so CANNOT tell humans, just how horrendous it is to live in daily fear of cars, abuse by humans or other animals, be boiling hot and dying of thirst, or freezing cold and starving hungry, have internal ailments or external damage (let alone, ticks in crevices that aren't visible to any passing person who may care) the list of utter, utter misery, is never ending...definition of madness? KAR policies. So a few (unknown provinance)animals are re-homed - so what, ratio wise, meaningless

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 14:22

Erols,

i would love to be able to spend time doing home visits. I work all day every day, i take 4 weeks holiday a year. I then spend part of those weeks dealing with my UK company.

In an ideal world, but where the hell would i find the time?



Why i asked is because most UK re homing centers would not just let a dog go.



Last year i tried to rehome an adult dog, so many people emailed me who lived in apartments and were disgusted and even insulting when i refused to entertain them.



I think with home visits, along with continued support, training and microchipping people would be more responsible for the pet they took on. Microchipping is key that way all dogs would have owners. Then a serious cull could be looked at.



Bizzi, spaying is not that expensive it depends on which vet you use. If anyone is looking to do this and wants a good vet a a reasonable price please let me know and i will give you details.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 14:24

MsGarnet



It would appear that your eloquence on the page is matched by your ability to talk to the animals. To describe the lives of all street dogs as miserable, horrendous etc etc is disingenious at the very least. Many street dogs have decent lives and I can honestly say that I have never come across a KAR 'tagged' dog in the sort of condition that you describe in your previous post - maybe I have been lucky in the 3 years that I have lived here.



It would be wonderful if we had the Utopia that you refer to, but one has to remember that this is the TRNC where sometimes achieving the simplest of things can take a lifetime. The Neuter and Return policy is not ideal but the dogs are checked over and treated for any ailments before they are released AND they are unable to produce anymore offspring.



Continued

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 14:31

This policy has resulted in the prevention of hundreds if not thousands of unwanted dogs being born on the streets and NOT the 'few less animals will be produced to live in utter misery' that you so glibly refer to.



Your views are in contrast to those of KAR and you are of course entitled to that view. If you cannot support KAR and their methods, then maybe forming a group of your own with likeminded people may be the answer. You could then lobby the government to your hearts content, find vets that will humanely euthanize healthy animals, raise the funds to destroy the aforementioned healthy animals and in a few months you will have solved the problem. Congratulations

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 16:02

fiendishpaul. I think MsGarnet is in the UK so pointless in telling her to form a group or lobby the government there.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 16:17

MsGarnet msg138 it is not just a 'few' aniamls that KAR rehomes, its hundreds annualy and not just here in the TRNC but also in places like Germany. Such rehomings may be meaningless if the objective is rid humans of the problems of strays, but KAR's objective is to help and improve the life of anaimals and thus EVERY SINGLE homing is of value to KAR but even more so to the homed animal.



Blade msg139 once again KAR do not 'just let the dog go'. They interview the prospective adopters, every one. They will and do turn down specific people and or combinations of adopter and adoptee. Questions like what is the adopters house like, what human family members do they have, exisiting animals and many other questions. They also offer as much support post homing as they can and have and will take back animals if it is not working out for any reason. They simply do not have the resources to do home visits of every and any prospective adopter. [cont]

itfc1978


Joined: 31/03/2009
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 16:48

Practical experience.



Once a month I man the KAR information stand in the Town centre.

I have made it a habit to ask people about the number of street dogs they see,without exception all have said less. Not one has commented on a street dogs being in poor condition,in fact a couple I have noticed on the Plaza are bordering on obese!



I made an appeal on here a couple of weeks ago to save Otto,

Otto will get his chance.

Thanks to KAR, his new owners, a generous vet and the one person on here who responded.



The 60 or so people that represent KAR do marvellous work with no government support.

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 17:35

There are three dogs always near the round tower who sleep in boxes they are so placid and well fed by the look of them.

cassius


Joined: 20/03/2009
Posts: 110

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 20:21

do you know what, I am so fed up with the negative attitude of some of the so called knowledgable posters on here who do nothing but criticise and nothing to improve the lives of the animals here on this part of the island. I first came here in 2000 and their lives then were so bad it was not true but thanks to KAR and their band of helpers, lives have improved so much. I am notso blinkered to believe that animal life here is perfect, far from it , but surely better than it was. A|ll I can say to some of you is, get off your backsides and do something constructive. If you are really animal lovers, words do not mean too much, building kennels for examples does. And , yes, if this sounds like I am angry, you are right, I am.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 20:52

I am thinking I might start a blog on behalf of the street dog that live in out street, Lana and post periodic updates on her behalf on her life. She is well fed, by us but also by at least 4 others local (TC) familes from time to time, she is well liked in the area. She gets regular attention and affection from many more poeple than our own dogs do. She accompanies not just us when we walk out dogs but others when they wal theirs, so gets alot more 'walkies' than our dogs. The TC family accross the road have bought here a nice new modern Kennel that must have cost at least 200TL probably alot more, so she has shelter from the worst weather. She certainly has alot more freedom than our dogs who are kepy inside the house and garden at all times unless accompanied by us. She gets medical treatment as and when she needs it.

Of course not all street dogs are this lucky, but then neither do all street dogs live a life of such abject misert and suffering that they would be better off dead.

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
11/01/2012 11:56

If you are in the area of Girne Belidyese offices, then have a look out for WALTER. Like others on the BB I occasionally help out on the KAR information stall. There used to be a sad, old chap, with a face similar to a blood hound/boxer, with a docked tail. He was always being shooed away by the cafes "because he hasn't been tagged" We all kept an eye out for the old boy and one day he appeared at just the right time and the KAR van was able to take him to the Centre. He was fattened up, injected, tested and "snipped". I bought him a new red collar for Christmas and he's back in the area again. However he was sad up at the Centre but now, he's back with his mates in an area he's spent an awful lot of his time. So if you're sitting having a coffee and this old bloke of a dog comes and plonks himself down by your feet, please give him a tickle behind his ears and call him WALTER.



Life on the streets is not all bad, if that's all they know.