greek conversation

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 15:36

met a greek from the south here in the Uk and the conversation on property was that I bought the villa in Lapta off the lorry as you say,ie the reason its so cheap,the land is still owned by the greek

eventually we are not entitled to the property as we don't own the land so when the land issue comes to a close , even though I am on exchange land will either return the property or buy the land off the greek once he is restored with his land,well I said I will enjoy the villa till then

Tell me

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 15:41

Before mmmmmm goes ballistic (I'm sure his patience is wearing thin),do you mean a Greek Cypriot?.......or was he indeed a Greek mainlander?

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 15:48

greek cypriot

his conclusion is the land is theirs and the villa is mine

eventually one needs to negotiate to buy the land or in his case give up the villa

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 15:51

If his conclusion became the basis of any property settlement , and mass demolitions were not on the cards,then any compensation based purely on land values in 1974 plus loss of notional rent since should be acceptable to most.



However...life is never that simple !

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 16:41

cronos

i don't for one minute believe that they would accept 1974 prices for their land.

lots i have spoken with regarding the situ say it is not for sale at any price.

its principle!

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 16:44

this is if turkey give in to the demands for any agreement

whereby all Brits owning property would be the sufferer

a way out without any cost to themselves!!!

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 20:30

Agree with Firestarter and what his GC friends say regarding 1974 prices,



No one should be under any illusion,Brit or TC. the GCs will want there land back, they would be crazy not too,they left a field and get back a couple of villas with pools.Even selling the villas on to other GCs at half price would give them a huge return.

Also if they decide not to sell on, but to move back they are still quids in. Kyrenia,probably the nicest and most valuable part of Cyprus will become GC again by default, regardless of any other landswap agreement. as most of the land was GC. ,and with most of the land in GC hands and with their business acumen, the construction and tourist industry would take off.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 20:35

Lets be truthful... if you were the owner of the land be it (GC or TC) and was willing to accept compensation you would be mad to settle for anything less than todays going rate as a building plot.



This would be very true for the GC who has been in rented refugee housing since 1974 and has never had an exchange. This makes me think any settlement will not be on 74 values.

Cruella


Joined: 16/05/2008
Posts: 63

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 20:48

We will need a few bulldosers because most brits whoul rather bulldose than give up their homes.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 21:16

It all depends on what compensation ROC offers the TC's to leave exchange land,which is what will have to happen. If the EU says Cyprus is right to declare it illegal to purchase exchange ,then it is illegal for everyone,and all must be returned.



The problem will occur if TC's from Kyrenia refuse to move elsewhere.While they might evict Brits I cant see them evicting TC.s.but compensation to leave could work



With a property handback to GC's in say Kyrenia ,involving a large movement of gc into former TC areas .The ethnic shift will have to be handled very slowly and carefully.Likewise TCs being made to move into mostly greek areas in the south will have to be done slowly.

Harlequin


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 21:18

The are no Greek Cypriots. They are not Greek.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 22:39

message 11



What are they then?

Harlequin


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 22:42

They are Cypriots. "Greek" and "Turkish" Cypriot DNA is the same and is different from Greek or mainland Turk DNA.



Greece has never controlled the island of Cyprus and the inhabitants did not come from Greece.

Harlequin


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 22:45

http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsEurope/GreeceCyprus.htm

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 22:52

msg13



Thankyou

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 23:39

Where's the mention of the post-2003 Neolithic influx to the north? Historians of the future will be baffled at traces of karaoke bars and ruins of tasteless villas in an area once known for its ancient civilisation and culture.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 23:50

Macha....msg16......HAHAHAHA



"post-2003 Neolithic influx"



Now I know it's you Pike!

Your love of the tattooed,vest wearing,bear-bellied Brit is legendary.



Welcome back my friend!

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 00:05

Turkey bashing here we come !

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 00:10

Now that we are off track ,how do you differentiate between the two sides.

Here is my last paragraph message 10 with GC and TC changed to Cypriot.



"With a property handback to CYPRIOTS in say Kyrenia ,involving a large movement of CYPRIOTS into former CYPRIOT areas .The ethnic shift will have to be handled very slowly and carefully.Likewise CYPRIOTS being made to move into mostly CYPRIOT areas in the south will have to be done slowly.



Better tell the UN they are as stupid as me



In just 2 paras of

UNSC report to UN on Annan Plan--capitals are mine.





20. On security, the GREEK Cypriot side,



' The TURKISH Cypriot side, equally bitterly'



'the GREEK Cypriots feared the TURKISH Goliath, the TURKISH

Cypriots feared the GREEK Cypriot Goliath.'



21. On territory, the GREEK Cypriot side started from the position that a substantial'



'controlled by the TURKISH Cypriots'



'given the GREEK Cypriot wish'



'TURKISH Cypriot side'



GREE

AndyLynnW


Joined: 05/12/2008
Posts: 61

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 00:50

Agree with the sentiment in posting number 9. If I have to give my property back im going to lock it up and leave it neat and tidy for a GC to live in or rent out.



HELLO ?



It will be demolished and there will be nothing there except big holes filled with waste that would confuse a chemical engineer student for years .

maybemike


Joined: 12/01/2009
Posts: 188

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 07:32

what do you think after 30 odd years, people that have settled in others parts of cyprus and worldwide, will want to move back next to there old neibour, get a life most of which are proberly dead











maybe

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 10:22

mike

i do go onto another forum and speak with the gc's because i am interested in what they have to say.

after speaking with them a while back they will be wanting to take back their properties and lands.

no amount of money would buy it!

thats the responces which i had!

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 13:21

quite right firestarter! the Cypriots have a different culture to the brits ie, family land being passed down to generations has always gone on, thats why all the cypriots on both sides want & deserve what is rightfully theres!!!

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 13:58

You cant turn the clock back, large numbers of people on both sides of the border have never known one island living together and those that do have many bad memories, as the years go by unification takes on the feel of a Walt Disney fairy tale we tell our children.

LeylaS


Joined: 21/01/2009
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 14:09

It is incredibly complicated. Ok here is a hypothetical scenario. A 60 old TC or GC displaced in 1974 will be 94 years old today, they would have settled into their respective towns. villages, etc. Will they really want to be forced to re-settle again and moved from everything they have known for the past 34 years?!!!!!

Bertie


Joined: 15/04/2008
Posts: 155

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 14:20

I really cant agree with the sentiment of message 23 a large proportion have willingly sold land to provide houses for family and to buy SUVs, Mercedes and large screen TV's. The whole economy of the North has been based on selling land and construction. 12/13 years ago when we first began to visit the only cars were old renault 12's and the only shops were local village shops, goat herding and agriculture the main source of employment

Europeans rightly or wrongly by building and buying property have totally altered a way of life in Northern Cyprus. They have put very large sums of money into the economy of the country.

I cant see Turkish Cypriots moving anywhere there would be absolutely no gain for them in that and to labour under the notion that we would just walk away from what has been a very large investment for most of us is laughable.I dont have a clue how it will work out and I suspect the answer is it wont- too much money is involved

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 14:40

msg25



my in-laws are now in there late 80s & often go see there land & propertys on the north, maybe they wont move back, but there offspring most definetly will once the mainlanders are out! at the end of the day it`s there choice weather they go back or sell whatever is legally theres!

LeylaS


Joined: 21/01/2009
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 15:16

Msg 27.

I have visited my family's property in the South with my relatives. A few of their houses have been demolished, cars are now parked on where the houses once stood. They simply accept what has happened, they do not wish to move back, they do not wish to claim compensation or live on the South for 6 months and claim their land back. They now live in Turkish titled property on the North so it's not like they have anything to gain and they are too old to go through another move (which won't happen anyway).

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 16:44

leylaS



What a shame they don`t want to reclaim there land back for there children etc, at least the land is there & has not been built on or won`t be built on unless your family sell it either in 6mnts or after reunification.

LeylaS


Joined: 21/01/2009
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 17:00

Well Juliet, they are too old and fragile to face the prospect of having to live on the South for 6 months in order to claim their land back, they say they are happy where they are now. And out of respect for them we don't push them on the subject as they are at a vulnerable age.

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 17:05

quite a large % of land in the north did not hold any title deed prior to 74. FACT) this can be found out at the land registry office. what i would like to know is how can a GC prove that the land belong to them when they had no title deed in the first place.



In 1987 a mass Registration of title deeds went ahead in the south for land in the north. So in theory, the GC never owened the land, otherwise they would have already had a title deed and would not have to have registered in 87...this was 13 years after the GC went south.



So can anyone tell me why the gc reistered in 87 if they already owned the land and had a title deed to prove this??????

this puzzles me...

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 17:05

leylaS

Why dont they sign it over to the family? dont like to say this but if they cant get to the land registry then eventually it will automatically go to there children. at least you know it will always be there for the family.

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 17:08

sparta

we have all the title deeds from way before 74!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 17:10

so why the mass reg in 87 my freind?

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 17:44

back to the first question,that greek says turkish property in the south is out of bounds and cannot be touched that means all turkish land is not sellable or rentable basheer

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 17:47

that is not true basheer many of TC land in South has been built on and then rented out. Who is this Greek you speak of ???

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 17:57

was it stavros from the kebab house,

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 18:06

can I call you troy sometimes!

he used to live out here in the Uk and known him back in the 90's then retired back to the south and now a developer with cash issues due to world issues and he is running out of cash in the middle of building his villas and came out here to see if any banks are willing to help or tend to lose millions

His family also owned land in the north and waiting for recapture !!

he says they are not allowed to touch turkisk land so what you say contradicts his version so I don;t know which turkish land has been built on unless the turk has made one to one agreements

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 18:23

basheer msg 1,35,38 i think hes only telling you what he wants to hear ||

maybemike


Joined: 12/01/2009
Posts: 188

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 19:08

why is there no mosques left in the south, plenty of church's in the north, thats because the gc demolish them, because they had no intention of ever having tc back







maybe

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 19:23

maybemike,



No mosques left in the south? I take it you have never been to Cyprus.



BTW, Elvis is still alive and an American bomber was found on the moon.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 19:25

i live here, and drive to paphos regularly from girne.

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 19:30

msg40

Have you been to the south???????????

ALL the mosques are in perfect condition!! unlike the churchs in the north!! which have been turned into mosques or cattle sheds! (wish i could upload photos on this old comp of mine!)



All tc land is intact unless it had to be demolished due to age, but the land still awaits, all the tcs have to do is come & claim it & after 6mnts of residing in it can sell if they wish,!you must all remember its not TURKISH land its CYPRIOT land on the whole island, weather they be tc, gc, armenien, maronite or even uk cyps!!!!

maybemike


Joined: 12/01/2009
Posts: 188

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 19:41

bit hard to reside in, if its demmolished

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 19:46

About those mosques, maybe? All gone are they?

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 19:52

ha ha! mike you no what i mean

maybemike


Joined: 12/01/2009
Posts: 188

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 20:05

shame the gc tried to ethnic cleanse it, if they had'nt been so greedy it would all be 1.

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 20:08

msg47



two sides to every story! as the saying goes! you should read up on the history of cyprus.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 20:13

Starting with chapter 1 - how not to make a fool of oneself by making false assertions.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 20:16

msg 43 whose keeping the mosques in perfect condition ??

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 20:19

msg50

the roc municipalitys! most are in use for the muslims that either reside here or visit.

vincehugo


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 21:18

I'd like to understand something from a Greek Cypriot perspective.



If any settlement allows for a Greek Cypriot to come to the North and take back land that was "exchanged" (Es Deger), then presumably the person who lost the land would be entitled to go the South and claim back the land which was originally given up in the Es Deger arrangement (whether they be Turkish Cypriot, British or whatever). This might be a bare plot of land, it might contain a house or houses with Greek Cypriots living in them or it might be part of Larnaca airport. We could end up with an awful lot of homeless Greek Cypriots. But the person with the Es Deger deey would be entitled to take the land back, wouldn't they?

Is this reciprocity understood and accepted by those demanding return of their land?

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 21:42

msg52



As has been posted numourous times there is no such thing as exchange land!!!

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 21:58

i watched a programme on ada tv last night on a turkish village called elmali



the programme is about the turkish residents going back to their villages and to see the changes ,their was an old lady the grand age of 100 years old and her daughter who choose to stay after the 74 conflict although her other children left and now live in the north.



most of the houses were still there and some new ones had been built in and around their gardens ,however what they could not understand is why they bulldozed the cemetery and the graves and built a road and properties on the land ,so forget the mosques and the churches ,whether they are used or not ,

why remove the cemeteries ?



musin

long live the kktc

vincehugo


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 22:07

Juliet, that may be true. Put it another way then - there are many Turkish Cypriots with deeds to land in the South. There may also be many non-Turkish Cypriots who have bought these deeds from their rightful Turkish Cypriot owners. Presumably Greek Cypriots would not stand in the way of any of these people taking back this land as part of a settlement? Even if it meant uprooting Greek Cypriots and losing bits of Larnaca airport.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 22:13

msg 54 theyre in the eu now musin perhaps nothing is sacrolige to them?? let them rot in hell//

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
29/01/2009 13:32

back to the first as britsh citizens thats my wife and i, her parents were born in lanaca and after the war resided in the Uk, of turkish origin, i guess that makes no diference owning exchange land my daughter says my wife should try for the kimlit(hope spelt right)card based on her family origin that way maybe some protection is there if ever the situation arrives, and if they compensate us for our investment,then there's no fear if worce to worce comes to us

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
29/01/2009 13:52

Basheer you need to stop worrying about a Gc coming back to collect his house, or land, and stop listerning to stavros from the kebab house... if you think your Kimilc card will help you then go get one...and stop preaching about stavros

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
29/01/2009 13:59

Juliet you have not answer the question why the mass reg in 87 if you had your deeds before 74...... i am waiting..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/01/2009 15:53

Dear Sparta, re msg 59



are you inferring "foul play"... re the "mass reg" in '87 .. ? If so please state why, and THEN I might offer you a possible reason..

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
29/01/2009 16:53

i want the reason as to why there was a mass reg in 87? if the GC already held a tile deed, i do not see why they needed to reg AGAIN...

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
29/01/2009 17:17

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

why the mass reg in 87 ? if you know about the foul play, why dont you tell us?

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
29/01/2009 17:32

Musim, did you ever watch the film Poltergeist where a housing estate was built on a graveyard... just think it could happen to the GC's...oh wouldn't that be good, we reap what we sow in life..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/01/2009 17:40

Dear Sparta re msg 62..



I know nothing untoward happened ( otherwise the ECHR wouldn't be using the RoC LR as a source of info) and I ask *you* again, why do YOU think this is "foul play"..



Suggest you check on procedures for registration at the time - if you know something sinister, please tell us all.

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
29/01/2009 17:46

are you saying that 13 years after the divide the GC suddenly thought i know i will go and reg my title in the north...ha ha no foul play? it was because they did not have any title deeds in the north in the first place.....as you may know that 80% Lapta had no title deeds issued to anyone, now the GC had title to it all, dont make me laugh...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/01/2009 18:03

re msg 65 Sparta



I have given you a BIG clue as to what was going on.. but if you want to believe in some sort of conspiracy theory...

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
29/01/2009 18:37

Macha please tell me where in the south are there mosques, name the village or anywhere there is one and if I am wrong then you will receive an apology...

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
29/01/2009 18:41

Listen all you lot bigging up the South, you are all brainwashed by the propoganda, believe me I know cos I used to live there 5 years ago and I believed everything I was told about the north, then I came here and learned the truth!!!!

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
29/01/2009 18:48

guess I will now refer to unwins and speak to Peter in town and see his opinion as he says exchange land is safe and is busy selling and come back to you all thanks for all the ideas and thoughts bash

vincehugo


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
30/01/2009 01:21

Juliet. I'm really sad that you haven't been able to take the time to respond to my post (Message 55) as I REALLY would like to understand the GC perspective on this. Maybe you are too busy but you do seem to be able to answer other posts.

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
30/01/2009 15:39

Basheer,

You say your family are Cypriot? so why dont you get your Kimlic card pay your taxes and take title to your property....and stop moaning about the house you have. Are you saying as a Cypriot you had no idea about North and south devide, what planet are you from.....as you realy are a space cadet..

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
30/01/2009 15:43

mmmmmm

When was the Roc land Reg set up? as my understanding was that the only LR office was in Girne before 74 and that is in the TRNC...

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
30/01/2009 17:13

Spatra I am not Cypriot but south african Indian british born the first time I ever came to north cyprus was last year,my daughter loved the place and so did I and so bought the villa out of love of sunny holiday spells,my wife is turkish and her grandparents and parents were born in Lanaca,and other then their birth certificate no knowledge of land if they had anything,that.s not the issue,here I am like yourselves loving cyprus ,it's afterwards that we realised that thro my wife we could apply for kimlic card but that is a long proceedure and no gareentee if we will ever able to and so like yourselves think about this issue as a british investor

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/01/2009 17:48

Dear Dee, re msg 67



my name is not Macha but.. how about the Blooming Great one that is to the north west of Larnaca Airport ? . It is visited by Muslims from all over the world..



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hala_Sultan_Tekke



Or you could go into Larnaca itself, ( one their , too ) or take trip into old Limas(s)ol , or Paphos( Baf)



I could give you many more.. but then only one of many should bring that miracle of miracles..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/01/2009 17:52

re 68 Dee



"Listen all you lot bigging up the South, you are all brainwashed by the propoganda, believe me I know cos I used to live there 5 years ago and I believed everything I was told about the north, then I came here and learned the truth!!!!"



Dee, try to "wise" up and realise that folk who ( by your own admission) are smarter than you are actually able to make decisions for themselves.



You find me ONE thing that I have posted that is "propaganda".. and be ready to apologise TWO times in one day... !

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
30/01/2009 17:54

if your wife is Turkish Basheer, then it is a formality to get a kimlic card.. your house is perfectly safe, just reg in your wife's name..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/01/2009 17:55

Dear Basheer re 69



If you are looking for advice re "exchange" title you could do worse than read the advice re buying property in Cyprus on the UK's Foreign and Commonwealth Office website.



They don't make commission and they aren't biased.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/01/2009 17:59

Sparta re 70



"When was the Roc land Reg set up? as my understanding was that the only LR office was in Girne before 74 and that is in the TRNC..."



Why you even trying to debate this?



WHO have the ECHR said is the official keeper of records in Cyprus - and whose info is the basis for proving ownership of land up to 1974 ?



Turkey has had to accept this - for it's Immoveable Property Commission - why can't you?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/01/2009 18:11

One more time - when can we have the EDIT feature.. my theirs and there's are testimony to my "limitations" ;)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/01/2009 18:29

Sparta re msg 70

"if your wife is Turkish Basheer, then it is a formality to get a kimlic card.. your house is perfectly safe, just reg in your wife's name.."



I would suggest his wife is TC in origin - if her ancestry is from LCA. If they are both UK citizens, then buying on "exchange" land MIGHT leave them open to an action by the GC who could , point out the land is STILL his.

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
30/01/2009 19:04

on the internet check out

exchange land north cpprus lots of infor which also leads to north cyprus investment

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
30/01/2009 23:55

deecyprus:



"Macha please tell me where in the south are there mosques, name the village or anywhere there is one and if I am wrong then you will receive an apology..."



How about the mosques in almost every former mixed village in the south and the several in and around southern Nicosia? How about the one I visit in Larnaca whenever I'm near the airport? You know, it's one of the holiest sites in the Islamic world? Or the one I photographed in Paphos? Or the one I visited in Episkopi? Limmasol has some good mosques too.



Forget the apology. Ignorance is often not the victim's fault, but merely his misfortune.



So in the spirit of sympathy and understanding, here's something that should help improve your general knowledge and understanding of Cyprus:



http://www.undp-act.org/Main/Tekkefinal191204_files/Page357.htm

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
31/01/2009 00:15

the old village records from before 1974 are in the roc.

been there, seen them!

from what i understand the first land records in cyprus date from the ottomans time here.

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
31/01/2009 10:36

if, buts, might, maybes,



and if my grandma had balls she would have been my grandad!!



But the TRNC maybe the TRNC or it might be the ROC !!

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 19:27

all property that has been bought and continues to be bought has all been guaranteed by the TRNC government. Therefore, the government are saying that if there is a settlement, our investments are safe. If our investments were not safe and not guaranteed by the government, I would not have put everything I have into this island Basheer,

So everybody take a back seat nothing ever is going to happen,and lets not listen to any more greeks

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 20:05

msg 85 heres hoping??

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 20:22

Mark ref your posting 79

There is an edit feature, it is called re-read before you post.

AJ

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 22:00

msg 85



have you not heard the so called TRNC goverment is NOT internationaly recognised!!!

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 22:12

msg 88 i wonder for how much longer????

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 11:18

juliet,



Msg 88



If the "so called TRNC government is NOT internationally recognised", why is the President of the RoC negotiating with Mr Talat, the President of the TRNC?

The RoC recognises that talking to Mr. Talat is the only game in town and if this is the case they must acknowledge that Mr. Talats government is the de facto governemnt of the de facto state known as the TRNC. Once we accept that, we accept that any deeds issued by this de facto government are indeed legal as far as the people they were issued to are concerned. The outside world may not agree with this state of affairs, but that is something they will have to take up with Mr. Talat and his governemt after reunification. After all, Mr. Talat and the TRNC government will not disappear after a settlement, they will no doubt form part of the new United Cyprus government.

twaddle


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 14:05

Ref message 90. I agree with you Vaughan. The ROC has obviously recognised that Mr Talat represents the government of the TRNC otherwise they would not be negotiating. Why would anyone negotiate with someone who has no power. Once and if any reunification occurs involving any Bi Zonal agreement, many of the existing TRNC politicians will carry on in a form of government. They have accepted our taxes and issued us with title deeds that they have said they guarantee. Therefore I cannot see any way that they can do the dirty on foreign purchasers of land and property in North Cyprus. Any agreement that is signed between the ROC and TRNC would implicate those on both sides of the border in any drive to dispossess foreign buyers which would in any case be contrary to article 14 of the European Human Rights Act.

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 14:08

i rest my case will stay possitive that we all are safe as can be thank you all

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 14:28

TRNCVaughan



Ref your message No.90



'The outside world may not agree with this state of affairs, but that is something they will have to take up with Mr. Talat and his governemt after reunification. After all, Mr. Talat and the TRNC government will not disappear after a settlement, they will no doubt form part of the new United Cyprus government.'



There is a forthcoming election which (If I understand what is going on) will do away with Talat and his cronies and also present an impediment to ongoing re-unification talks (i.e. the end to talks). And with the increasing prospect of Turkey declining EU membership then the TRNC will become an integrated part of Turkey. Ok so I know that some will say that the TRNC is already part of Turkey but my feelings are that Turkey will look at their Muslim friends in the Middle East for support and there is every indication that Turkey is turning its back on the West.

Food for thought.

AJ

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 15:49

msg 90



As has been stated before Mr T is NOT internationally recognised as the so called "president" of the so called trnc! he is the official leader of the turkish cypriot community & is in talks with the official "president" of Cyprus!



msg92



I suggest you read the orams article in todays cyprus mail!!! http://www.cyprus-mail.com very interesting for the expats that don`t understand.....

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 16:07

juliet

What are your thoughts on my message 93?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 16:10

Suzanne...msg 94.....I think that's the wrong link....Russian ship stuff not Orams !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 16:12

re 89 Rowlo NEVER.. and I'm accepting wagers



re 90 "TRNC" Vaughan - Christofias is meeting the elected representative of the TC people.

If you remember the Turkish organisers of the F1 GP in 2007 told us Mr Talat was "President of the TRNC" and it cost 'em and the TR equiv of the the racing club $5 million in fines ( $2.5million later suspended to avoid bankrupting the club)



IF a deal is sorted out then Mr Talat - or whoever is the elected leader will be recognised..

Your thought process re "deeds" is so full of holes.. and TR is a paid up member of the ECHR "club" .. not sure why you would even TRY that one on Juliet :O



re 92 Basheer - wishful thinking, surely, as "no deal" means ( for sure) we're back to the ECHR re property an THOUSANDs of GC applications are being held back ... some deal HAS to be done.



re 93 AJ - for the above reason - it doesn't matter WHO is elected - no matter how "hardline" they are... if TR needs a deal - a deal will get done.(crossing po

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 16:12

( crossing points - opened in April 03)

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 17:00

msg96

turn the page to news!

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 17:21

having your house knocked down is a bit of a "principal ", aint it ?

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 17:23

message 7.....you GC by any chance ?

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 17:28

Your property is safe no matter Greeks will get nothing back,

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 17:30

quite right sparta! greeks wont get anything but CYPRIOTS will!!!!

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 17:31

Sparta...msg 102



I presume you mean Greek Cypriots?



Is this something you know,or just something you wish for?

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 17:36

TRNC is here to stay GC will not get anything back, so you might as well get used to it.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 17:39

Sparta.....why so aggressive?

I simply asked you a question.

You don't know me or my situation so stop being paranoid and believing that everyone is against TC's and the TRNC.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 17:40

message 33Juliet,and I have all the title deeds going back to Ottoman, Byzantine and Phoenician times .......give me a break!

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 17:44

as i have said before 80% of all land in the TRNC never held any kind of title deed before 74, so where do the GC get off on the fact they own most of the north... 20% held title just 20% of all land in north,

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 17:55

Juliet,



You clearly have some deep seated nationalistic views. I assume that you are ROC Cypriot and understandibly seek the most advatageous solution to the problem.



The Island history is long and diverse with Greeks,Turks,British, Italians et al having a hand in its progression.



The de-facto situation cannot be dismissed. The TRNC does exhist and is accepted as the administration in force in the region.

The Current talks and the forthcomming settlement will be yet another pawn in the Islands History. Life and the Island move foward.

My suggestion is that you grasp this opportunity for prolonged peace and prosperity for the Island and live and let live. The Turkish influence is omnipresent in the North and this cannot now be erradicated. A multicultural community is no bad thing. You too may consider the advantages that such diversity will bring to the Island...International trade and investment. Increased Tourism and prolonged economic prosperity for all.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 17:55

message 77, not biased ! The same UK that is a memberof the EU..... Wakey, wakey !

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 18:01

Juliet message 88 , neither was Israel until after WW2, but they own a lot of the rest of the planet !

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 18:13

waz



i can assure you my views are not nationalistic, if you read back to some of my posts i state that the island belongs to all cypriots, armenian, tcs, gcs, maronite to name a few!! & the so called trnc only exists by turkey. this is the island of cyprus & will remain with that name after reunification with all cypriots of all walks of life enjoying the whole island.

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 18:14

clarets



maybe you should read the link on msg 77 it could be to your advantage!!

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 18:21

Hi mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,



Your msg 97.



I can't let you get away with that. I'm sure you know the meaning of de facto, if not take a squint at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto

check out the section on politics, especially the first two paras.



Talat IS the de facto President of the de facto state of TRNC. Once we accept this (which we must, according to the definition of "de facto") we must also accept that this de facto government or administration is fully entitled, within its own boundaries, to issue documents such as birth, death and marriage certificates, driving licences and even property deeds to people resident within that administration. These deeds are therefore legal within that state. Talat is negotiating on behalf of that state and any consequent objections, after a settlement, about the legality of the issuing of these documents will have to be taken up with the issuers of them rather than the people they were issued to.

The present TRNC gov will take part in

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 18:26

administrating the new Cyprus, post any settlement, and they must accept responsibility for their current actions, and justify them, if they are not to lose all credibility with their electorate and the outside world.

vincehugo


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 18:26

As Juliet doesn't seem to want to answer my question, perhaps somebody else could give me a view on this.



IF it were decided that Greek Cypriots bearing deeds could take back their land in North Cyprus, presumably it would also be accepted that Turkish Cypriots (or those with Turkish Cypriot deeds) would equally be entitled to take back their land in the South.



I'm not sure how much of this land has been developed, or how many Greek Cypriots are currently borrowing Turkish Cypriot houses. My question is, do the Greek Cypriots looking for return of their land accept the inevitable consequence that many other Greek Cypriots will become homeless as a result?



Its rather nice to think of it as a straight swap but somehow I don't think this reflects the reality.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 18:27

administrating the new Cyprus, post any settlement, and they must accept responsibility for their current actions, and justify them, if they are not to lose all credibility with their electorate and the outside world.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 18:28

administrating the new Cyprus, post any settlement, and they must therefore defend their current actions, and justify them, if they are not to lose all credibility with their electorate and in the outside world.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 18:29

Juliet Msg 112

Thank you for your response.

TRNC is indeed part of and destinguished as part of Cyprus.

There have been clear moves towards your asspiration for unified Island since the 70s.

The opportunity is clear and has never bee better for settlement. The Turkish inhabitants of the Island cannot be ostracised from the settlement.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 18:31

administrating the new Cyprus, post any settlement, and they must therefore defend their current actions, and justify them, if they are not to lose all credibility with their electorate and in the outside world.

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 18:38

waz



of course tsc wouldn`t be ostracised as you put it it is there island as well, but anyone who was illegally brought over after 74 from turkey..... well thats another story!!!!!

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 20:44

Pikey

You cannot kick all the settlers out,Turks from the North and Greeks from the South.If you do believe that ,then would that include children who have been brought up in Cyprus, North and South.and to whom life in Turkey or Greece is now alien. Who would do the rounding up and deporting.No Turkish Govt would survive the political fallout of pictures of the Turkish army fixing bayonet and rounding up Turks ,at what would be taken as being at the behest of the south.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 21:06

msg 121 bullshxt ,wouldnt be ostracised ? you have a short memory my friend ? thats why the turkish army is here now ? better to be ostracised than murdered

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 22:19

re msg 110 Clarets:



Interesting - here we have a poster that thinks the UK is biased towards GCs... unless I'm mistaken... The UK website reflects the ECHR findings.



If anything the UK is perceived to be biased to the TC side and Turkey by GCs ..



I suppose you think the ECHR is the EU....?

vincehugo


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 22:35

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm



"If anything the UK is perceived to be biased to the TC side and Turkey by GCs .."



What's the basis for this observation?

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 01:34

Msg 121

Juliet,

Many Turkish imigrants have been on the Island for more than 30 years. They have citizenship within TRNC.

Do you suggest that they are illegals and should be deported in any settlement deal.

There are indeed many Turkish workers that are on work permits in TRNC their status is temporary but they too may apply for citizenship.

The developing economy of the region needs this type of labour as well as a variety of other skills.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 02:58

re 114 "TRNC"Vaughan



Do be esp. vigilant when quoting Wikipedia sites.. esp. if they carry this warning...



"This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards."..



Who is this "we" who must accept what you say.. ? The "we" who remind you of UN Sec Council Resolutions ?! ;)



The IMPORTANT thing you conveniently forget is WHO runs the country in reality.. "de facto" ... you are correct that it is not the recognised govt..( RoC) .. it is TURKEY.. as deemed by the ECHR...



I can quote you more reliable sites than your "flawed" Wiki example... but I think you've had links to various UN / ECHR ones often enough ;)

maybemike


Joined: 12/01/2009
Posts: 188

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 07:40

mmmmmmmm you very much remind me of a former friend who thought he knew everthing and was as arrogant as you ...he died a very lonely old man who paid a heavy price for people to offer him 'love'

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 10:20

Dear may be re 128



May be you really don't know WHAT you're talking about....

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 15:58

Hi mmmmmmmmmmmmmm,



What do you mean?



Are you saying Talat ISN'T the de facto President of the de facto state of TRNC? Who actually "runs" the country is neither here nor there.

As the de facto government, the TRNC administration adminsters in the way it sees fit and is therefore responsible for its actions and/or any decisions it makes, including the issuing of deeds. As participants in any United Cyprus gov, it cannot, post settlement/reunification, wash its hands of any decisions it may have made or any legislation it may have passed during its time previous to that and suggest that it is the people who they issued the deeds to who are liable.

It is they who issued the deeds - it is they who will be answerable.

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 16:20

they won't probably go sweet on those who have more then one property

if ever a solution is in hand

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 17:31

mmmmmm.



Your view that Turkey run the TRNC is very much misplaced.

It is the case that that Turkey provide economic and political support for the region as it has for many years.

Anyone who is familiar with the TRNC will soon realise that the region is very much inwardly supportive of itself.

Whilst the region is ostracised from the world stage it does indeed capitalise on support from Turkey and also from the EU and UN. This is perfectly acceptable .

Without doubt, once the shackles of deprivation are removed the region will prosper. The region is blessed with a young and vibrant community that will relish in the forthcomming freedom that is so justly deserves.

The TRNC is far stronger and motivated than i believe you think.

The banks are well capitalised and GDP is remarkebly good considering the restraints forced upon it. Standards of education continue to rise and Tourism numbers for 2009 are likely to be good.

maybemike


Joined: 12/01/2009
Posts: 188

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 18:35

WAZ very well said and I agree with every word.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 18:59

spot on waz, well said

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 19:21

waz



so no problem for the so called trnc when turkey close the purse strings!!!!ok for you expats who have some sort of income coming in but what about the tcs? reunification is the only way forward for the tcs! many are already sending there kids to the south to be educated, even tc teachers are seen at semminars conducted by the ministry of education, this island WILL be one again!!

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 21:39

Juliet, msg 135.



As I have previously indicated.

The TRNC currently operates and survives in a very disandvantaged environment due to its lack of acceptance particularly by the ROC.

Once the shackles of deprivation are removed. I think we will all be pleasantly suprised as to how the region and all its citizens will prosper and flourish to the deserved potential.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 22:16

Waz



It is a well known fact that the TRNC as we know it is run by Turkey. Many laws have been adopted into the TRNC from Turkey.



Mr Talat can not agree to anything with the ROC without the green light from Turkey. Turkey has been funding the TRNC for years.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 22:25

suzanne

the dream that many greek cypriots have about turkish mainlanders leaving cyprus is just a dream,think of it like a sapling being put into the ground and after 35 years is now a huge tree with even bigger roots.



so it does not matter how much you rant about the turkish leaving the kktc it won,t happen ,what will materialize however is that the kktc will be recognised

sooner or later and like waz says we will prosper and flourish regardless of what you ,i or anyone on this bb says.



as you and i are both cypriots i am sure you would be happy for all cypriots to prosper.



long live the kktc

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 22:29

msg 135 have you read the genocide files ?? why would turkey close the so called purse strings ?what really does roc have to offer eu? look at the big picture not thru the eyes of a brainwashed hypocondriact,turkey has more to offer usa and nato ive said it before you think your a player now because you entered under the flag of greece? but say youre not greek ?but cypriot ? so what are you really then ?

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 23:06

Stubs,



TRNC is considered by some to be a Turkish republic. However the Region clearly has its own administration and governance.

Turkey has significant resources, both economic and political which it redily and rightly offers to this island enclave.

Turkey does indeed provide important and needed political and moral support to the administration of the TRNC. Without this assistance the regions political adversaries may well fair better in for example the current talks.

Turkey has a strong political position in its own right being the longstanding junction between East and West. Turkey is a major player on the international political field because of its strategic location, its strong economic base and its significant military strength.

The USA and Europe aspire to recruit Turkey as a dependable ally. Membership of the EU will secure this. Turkey consequently certainly have influence upon the Cyprus solution in so far as they have a good hand of cards to trade with. .continued

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 23:08

...cont.

I do not however for a moment believe that Turkey are the masters over the TRNC.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 23:15

Waz:



"Many Turkish imigrants have been on the Island for more than 30 years. They have citizenship within TRNC. Do you suggest that they are illegals and should be deported in any settlement deal."



They are in fact ALL illegals as they entered the island without the permission of the legitimate government. In reality the presence of Turkish settlers in north Cyprus is a recognised war crime, as they were imported to alter the demographic balance after the GCs were forced out of their own homes.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 23:20

WAZ:



"Your view that Turkey run the TRNC is very much misplaced."



Ah, right. So world opinion and international law which have deemed Turkey to be in control of north Cyprus is equally misplaced?



Ask any educated TC and the chances are they will tell you that Turkey allows the "TRNC" "government" to operate the functions of a parish council, and that's about it. Ankara pulls all the strings.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 23:21

rowlo:



"msg 135 have you read the genocide files ??"



Come on now. Who (of any intelligence) is going to put their hands up to that?

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 23:23

rowlo: "look at the big picture not thru the eyes of a brainwashed hypocondriact..."



MEDIC!!!

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 23:25

macha your full of shxt who was the legitimate government ? a bunch of greek murdering bastarxs ,who never had the balls to finish what they started? read the book you uneducated bastarxd?

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 23:42

Yoursh my besht mate, you are.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 23:43

Macha,

Msg 142 -3



I hardly think that turning the clock back 30 years will provide you with any lasting satisfaction.



The Island has had a multicultural history for many hundreds of years. It is likely that this will continue. Turkish citizens of the TRNC are well established and are very unlikely to leave and most certainly will not be expelled.



The international community are becoming more amenable to the TRNC.

There is clear international support for the current talks and there is increasing recognition that the TRNC cannot be excluded from the world stage for much longer.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
04/02/2009 23:49

he wont understand that waz, look at his replys??

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/02/2009 00:22

Dear Warren re msg 132



"Your view that Turkey run the TRNC is very much misplaced. "

not just MY view.. it's that of the ECHR..



"It is the case that that Turkey provide economic and political support for the region as it has for many years. "



He who pays the piper...



"Anyone who is familiar with the TRNC will soon realise that the region is very much inwardly supportive of itself. "



I'm extremely familiar.. "TRNC" is top heavy on civil servants and the funding mostly comes from TR...



I'm not knocking the resilience of TCs, but you are being a mite over-optimistic re Tourism and education. The economic downturn is hitting the economy HARD. This applies to BOTH sides of the green line.



Please try to remember that I'm as hopeful of a solution that will allow the TCs to be free of the shackles imposed on them by the daft UDI... and they deserve a "break" following the Annan yes..



Property is the key issue...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/02/2009 00:29

Warren re 139

"The TRNC currently operates and survives in a very disandvantaged environment due to its lack of acceptance particularly by the ROC. "



NO.. it disadvantaged itself by the short-sighted UDI in 1983 which resulted in the UN security council resolution confirming it's "illegitimacy" .. blaming the RoC is simply "daft" as the UN approved the resolution. Denktash put a rope around TCs necks..



"Once the shackles of deprivation are removed. I think we will all be pleasantly suprised as to how the region and all its citizens will prosper and flourish to the deserved potential."



No argument there.. but the shackles can be removed without the "rump" RoC's input.. denounce the "TRNC" claim an autonomous region pending a bi-zonal , bi -communal settlement, send some TR troops home and WATCH the outside nations find initiatives to get around the UN resolution.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
05/02/2009 14:10

mmmm

I welcome your comments.

However please endeavour to comment upon my precise wording.



The said "disadvantaged environment" is paticularly but not exclusively down to the ROC. Mr Denktash, in the 1980s acted as expected of any leader in order to protect his citizens from international pressure and isolation.

This saga is now history and best left there.



The illegitimacy stance is loosing its credibility as time goes by and the gripes of the ROC in particular become destined to history. International asspiration is evident for the region to become part of the world political and economic flock.



The TRNC continues to move from strength to strength and is able to bring significant contribution to the global stage.



Mark your final last para proposal may well be a basis for negotiation. I think it unlikely that the TRNC will be denounced. The UN may well provide initiative by new resolution.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 11:57

Dear Waz re msg 152



"The said "disadvantaged environment" is paticularly but not exclusively down to the ROC. Mr Denktash, in the 1980s acted as expected of any leader in order to protect his citizens from international pressure and isolation.



This saga is now history and best left there. "



You seem to have a habit of wishing to "drop" something when "inconvenient"..



it was during this period that TURKEY had the highest percentage of ECHR rulings against ( ref HR ) it in the western world..



A TC friend of mine would tell you "be careful what you wish for".. when it comes to being "ruled" by such erstwhile "democrats" as Mr D..



If you don't believe me, I refer you to Dr An...



The "TRNC" is already "denounced" by the UN security council ..do you need the link to read it? !

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 12:38

WAZ:



"The TRNC continues to move from strength to strength and is able to bring significant contribution to the global stage."



In reality the "TRNC" is not allowed on the world stage and it's going down the pan.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 13:42

msg 153 and 154,



Mark,

If you base your arguments upon past historical events then you will have difficulty in moving forward. I very much doubt that current talks are dwelling upon a tit for tat list of past events. The UN are giving full backing to current settlement talks. We must assume that the UN, including its security council have moved on from their denouncement of TRNC in favour of settlement.

Perhaps you ought consider the same.





Macha,

The TRNC has the potential to bring significant contribution to the world stage.

Clearly it is currently hindered. Considering its disadvantaged status. I think that it is doing rather well and far from down the pan.

It is the case that the ROC in particular would like to see it go down the pan. A minority are clearly hell bent on achieving this.

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 13:48

waz



There will be NO trnc when the talks are concluded! it will become ONE island named Cyprus as it is now. No seperate states as turkey would like it to be. Then and only then will the cypriots be able to move forward.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 14:01

Dear Waz, re msg 155



Yet another "wishy washy" answer.. you would have members believe you are the "voice of reason" but persist in talking in terms that the UN / ECHR point out aren't conducive to the "way forward"



FACT.. the UN / ECHR recognise TCs have a right to self determination.. but it is not/ never has been as an independent state - nor in real terms is "TRNC" independent now.. it leans heavily on the state that created it - the only one that recognises it AS a state...



The talks are about ending that surreality that you choose to "ignore".

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 14:05

Juliet,

I fear that you should await the outcome of the talks before you are in a position to conclude as you have.



If, as I hope, all parties will indeed pull on the same rope then Cyprus will emerge as one bizonal region. Indeed most people still view the Island as Cyprus. This is a reflection of the prevailing peace.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 19:27

Juliet/suzanne..have you been on the wacky backy again lol, it makes the impossible seem possible sometimes lol

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 19:56

mmmmmm



I again relay to you that the current talks take precedent over the views of ECHR, ECJ and indeed you.



Of course, Mr Talat and Christofias will take directions from the UN via Mr Dowling who I am sure is well up to speed with involvment of ECHR and ECJ.



I think that your interpretion of the talks objective is misplaced.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 23:33

Dear Waz re msg 160



The current talks are the "last chance" in the foreseeable future for a negotiated settlement ... WITHIN CYPRUS



Neither side can afford to have outside influences decide matters crucial to Cyprus development..for that IS what will happen - legal decisions outside Cyprus will effect folk - whether they like it or not..



For the TCs and Turkey's pocket - that means finding the most equitable solution re property...



ALL other matters are relatively easy to solve .. once the matter of property and population balance is resolved



The talks objectives reflect what one is hoping for..



PROPERTY, property .. "fix" that and t'other pieces will fall in place.

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 22:24

exchange land

turks given property for replacement for south cyprus is not allowed to develop or sell the land he holds until he obtains the tittle deeds thereafter he can sell plots and develop and who ever buys exchange land property is safe on those grounds

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 23:44

mmmmmmm

Mark,

I am not sure of your comment regarding outside influence upon Cyprus matters.



Cypriot matters are and continue to be influenced from outside.

The European Union influence is profound. Turkish influence upon TRNC is profound.



I agree that property issues are high on the list of priorities and need to be resolved in order to facilitate a smoother path to full settlement.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
15/02/2009 01:50

once again I'm dumfounded



there is no news yet of any breakthrough whatsover in the talks

which as mark says perceptively are the "last chance" for a settlement

that leaves about five months for something unexpected to happen...



but I still cannot account for the reams of stuff written heretofor

about a a possible event that more than likely will remain firmly in la la land



we don't have to be defensive about exchange property either,

since unless it is included in any deal, the former occupants will never return

so obviously you are not actually depriving them of anything at all



I do not pontificate on "right" and "wrong" in what was civil strife,

and the terms "liberation" or "invasion" depend purely which side you were on



of course bashing a liitle old lady over the head and making off with her handbag is quite wrong I would agree



andre

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
15/02/2009 01:55

oh and the other set of surreal talks, those between the eu and turkey

regarding turley's application to join have already been "suspended"



andre

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
15/02/2009 12:11

That is not quite right Andre.....2 new Chapters out of the 35,are expected to open imminently re Turkey's Accession......EUobserver

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/02/2009 12:37

re 166 Clarets



but the "train crash" matter of non compliance with the customs union - right of GC planes to overfly, GC ship to use TR ports looms again...



TR is wasting it's time trying to tie this to a CY settlement AFTER signing up ..



That sort of negotiation might work with "little Cyprus" but not with the EU, and simply gives France, NL, Austria to point and say... " do we want a country in the Union, that plays hard ball, and reneges on agreements signed, BEFORE we offer membership"?

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
07/06/2009 14:27

seems our greek guy had some knowledge about land rights and I did'nt