Russian Ship, Cypriot ( RoC) flagged, carrying Iranian Arms - ooops

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 01:14

I haven't seen anyone pick up on this...sorry if it's duplicated..





"The Government is taking all the necessary steps to overcome the issue

of a Cypriot flagged ship, that has docked at Limassol Port, House

President Marios Garoyian has said. It has been reported that the

Russian-owned ship is carrying arms that originated from Iran. As a

result, it was forced by an American military vessel to dock at

Limassol Port.



Speaking here Sunday, Garoyian noted that the issue requires patience,

and careful handlings. For that reason, I would not like to say in

detail what has to be done, he said, adding that the less we talk about

this issue in public, the better.



I know that the Government is making all the necessary moves. And not

only the Government, but also several other people are trying to help

in order the problem to be solved in the best possible way for Cyprus,

he added."

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 01:30

Mark. This must be a mistake, the mistake being they got caught.

P

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 01:36

re msg 2 .. Very Good..



I'm really surprised this hasn't "kicked off" more...

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 01:41

Mark, everyone has gone to bed.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 01:57

I didn't mean here.. I MEANT internationally ;)



Nighty night !

irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 02:12

I just do not think this story has any legs.



Or if that is a little to abstract for people



They must have sold the legs before they were caught.



Will they be cool under questioning or lose their head.



I must stop now before I put my foot in it.

Mr Vince


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 696

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 08:46

Does not say where the ship was going. I wonder if it was going to Gaza? I for one would not be too upset if it was. What the Izraelies have done there is quite disgusting and unforgivable.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 10:47

RE msg 7, Mr Vince : (...) Does not say where the ship was going. I wonder if it was going to Gaza? I for one would not be too upset if it was. What the Izraelies have done there is quite disgusting and unforgivable. (...)



===> What do you mean, Mr. Vince?! You blame Israel for destroying the arms of the Hamas terrorists, so the poor innocent guys have to "buy"/"import" new weapons? And when they have to buy new weaponry they can't buy food for the starving population of course..? (Again: Israels fault, of course, of course)...



Well, in the past days Hamas proved that they have enough spare rockets to be able to break the truce (again). And when Israel retaliates (after - again - strong warnings yesterday) it's "disgusting and unforgivable" - in your twisted opinion?! What a sad way of thinking, when one can call it "thinking".

Amber


Joined: 26/09/2008
Posts: 561

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 12:28

Reports say ship was going from Iran to Syria when stopped by American military.

Cabbie


Joined: 30/01/2009
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 12:35

it was in the NEWS section on another board mark

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 13:57

Hi mmmmmmm,



As an old salty let me give you my opinion. When I went to sea in 1967 the British Merchant Navy was the biggest in the world. When I left, 16 years later, it was one of the smallest. The reason? Flags of convenience (FoC). A bit like RoC banks and lawyers - nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Just pay us the money and you can sail around the world, under our flag, doing what you want, employing dubiously qualified foreign seamen, no health & safety, no life saving equipment. Just one thing though - we don't want to know what you get up to.

While we tolerate FoCs you'll always have this sort of thing happening.

Rant over.

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 14:00

TRNCVaughan - would this explain the amount of vessels sailing under the Panamian flag?



Thanks.



J

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 14:00

was the ROC president not in Russia a few weeks ago negotiating deals?

perhaps this was part of the deal?..just a thought

denizkisi


Joined: 18/09/2008
Posts: 196

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 14:39

They were doing the Americans a "favour":



http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060782.html



Hedging their bets between Russian ties v American???

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 14:48

Hi J,



The Panamanian, Liberian, RoC and Malta are all there as well as The Caymans Islands and lots of others. If you ever book a cruise, ask where the ship registered if you value your life.

Mr Vince


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 696

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 16:27

Dutch Crusader



It is sad that the Palestinians in Gaza are starving. Not because of the money being spent on weapons, but because the Israelies have blocked the borders from shipping in food, both on land and sea. The Israelies have created a gheto state and the world stands by and does nothing. Gaza does not have a protector state, unlike TRNC, who can stand up to bullies so has to try to defend itself anyway it can. I do not condone violence from either side but can understand the frustration of the Palastinians when faced and abused by their baligerant neighbours. Condemnation of the Israelies actions have been feeble by the international comunity. That is what is disgusting and unforgivable.

Maybe you have your own twisted opinion, but I think that I am entitled to think what I like without your 2 pence worth.

irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 16:34

Let us not make this into another israel gaza flame war.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 16:53

RE msg 16, Mr. Vince: My opinion is based on facts, yours on emotion. So be it. Shall we both agree with msg # 17?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 17:15

Hi SaltyDog "TRNC"Vaughan re msg 11



Since CY joined the EU -your "flag of convenience" ( along with banking procedures) theory is less valid....

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 18:44

Hi mmmmmmmmm,



Why would anyone (Russian owner) register his ship in a 3rd country (RoC) and crew it with odds and bodds, probably none of which are Cypriots if it wasn't for some advantage not to be gained by registering in the home country of the owners and crewing it with nationals?

We (the UK) gave up years ago trying to fly the Red Ensign and crewing with Brits, whereas the US for example, will ONLY ship foreign-aid in US ships crewed by Americans (Similarly the French). The Roc, as an EU member state, should be ashamed and forbidden from continuing to be a FoC.

Cabbie


Joined: 30/01/2009
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 18:58

I agree with vaughan.



Do the Dutch have a Navy ?

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 20:31

Message 15. Vaughan, funny you should say that!! In the 1970's I worked in London as a secretary for a Greek Shipping Line. All their cruise ships sailed under the Panamian flag, although I didn't understand the significance of this until many years later. We were given the opportunity, as staff, to go on very cheap cruises, which I took up a few times.



Had I known then what I knew later, I may have had a rethink!



Thanks for the info.



J

Turbo


Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 833

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 21:04

Mmmm, I have been following the story, but yet have to read if explosives or ammunition was found, it had yet to be searched.



No Cyprus Mail on Mondays ( about the only source for my Cyprus news).

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 21:53

msg16 dont you know your history ? the germans tried to wipe out the jews ie israelites the palastinianes have jumped on the back of any camel passing thru theyre worthless piece of shxt land theyre terrorists to the highest bidder israel have nuclear capabillity , thats why usa moniter theyre borders ? ie they dont want a nuclear strike , israel has stated many times they will never again be taken to the brink of extinction they will push if shove comes??

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
02/02/2009 23:39

Msg 21:



"Do the Dutch have a Navy ?"



One of the best - and they certainly tanned our hides a few times, if we face facts.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
03/02/2009

RE msg 21, cabbie : (...) Do the Dutch have a Navy ? (...)



===> Yes, they have. But the fleet can only sail when there's wind.

caulkhead


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 149

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 00:52

As I understand it, Panama was the first FoC and came about as a way of allowing alcohol to be served on US ships during Prohibition. Not all FOCs are dodgy and the International Maritime Organisation have done a lot recently to improve safety. FoCs range from Isle of Man, which is virtually the same as British to far more dubious tinpot states. However, as far as this arms shipment is concerned, it is the nationality of the charterers or the owners that is far more relevant than the flag.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 08:50

Re msg 27,



The owners have registered their ship in RoC because they know they can get away with things they never could under some other flags. Also, unless the shipments were loaded in locked/sealed containers covered by falsified Bills of Lading, the crew or at least the master and chief mate would have had to be in on it.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 08:59

Hi "TRNC"Vaughan !



If I had of been worried about "upsetting" the RoC I wouldn't have posted this article.... .. .but I think you can't know the real reason for how/why this ship was CY reg'd.. does the vessel always carry "dodgy cargo"?



I am sure that the EU took into account Cy's prominence as a FoC when they applied for membership.....



Turbo: Latest News I could find....



"Government Spokesman Stephanos Stephanou said on Sunday that a Cyprus

flagged ship which has been reported to be carrying arms that

originated from Iran and was forced by an American military vessel to

dock at Limassol Port last week, remains at the port, adding the issue

is sensitive and delicate.



Invited to comment on reports concerning the ships cargo and whether it

falls within the prohibition framework provided by UN resolutions, the

Spokesman quoted statements by President of the Republic Demetris

Christofias and Foreign Minister Markos Kyprianou who said the issue is

sensitive an

maybemike


Joined: 12/01/2009
Posts: 188

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 09:24

Msg 24 I think that is a bit of an insult to Mr Vince, how could anyone not know what Hitler did to the jews, as they (the jews) have been reminding the world ever since and playing the sympathy card...What the israeli's are doing in Gaza is their holocaust again the Palestinians, now you may not agree with my views on this and you are entitled to your own misguided views but sarcasm which is what your post was aiming at isn't allowed on the forum, take my advice or you will get banned!





Edit ..I think a few hundred rockets that regularly miss and do mostly structural damage is hardly attempting to extinct the jews..the palestinians dont have tanks, jet fighters or anything to match the power of the Israeli's...the jews are pratcising genocide on the palestinians...

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 09:33

Hi mmmmmmmmmm,



I don't know the exact reason this particular vessel was registered in RoC, but a FoC allows vessels registered under it do things that it could not necessarily get away with under more "respectable" flags. This covers things like crew qualifications, health & safety (including fire-fighting and Life Saving Appliances), surveys for seaworthyness and financial matters like insurance and taxes. I am sure this ship doesn't always carry dodgy cargo (if ever) but under a FoC it is more likely to get away with it when/if it ever does.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 10:34

The government hopes that the issue of a Cypriot-flagged ship, of

Russian interests, said to have been carrying arms, will soon be

concluded.

Things are evolving and when we have something to say on the matter, we

will say it, President Demetris Christofias has said, replying to press

questions about this issue.

It has been alleged that the ship, which originated from Iran, was

carrying arms and it was forced by a US military vessel to dock at

Limassol port to have its cargo inspected, in order to establish

whether there has been a contravention of UN Security Council sanctions, as claimed.

Asked when the whole matter might be concluded, President Christofias

said he did not know.

It is possible that it may come to a close tonight but it may not. We

shall have a final conclusion of the matter within the next few days,

the President explained.

Asked if Israel had demanded confiscation of the ships cargo,

Christofias indicated that such matters have nothing to do with the

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 10:35

(cont)



the

issue at hand.



How can the Israelis have any demands from us? They cannot have demands

from the Republic of Cyprus, he stressed.



The ship remains docked at Limassol port, on the southern coast.



The government has said that the issue is delicate and sensitive and

called for patience."



That is the latest I have..

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 10:49

Whilst vessels owned by multi-national organizations will say that they have no one "home" nationality and that they should to be free to register anywhere that such a facility exists, it is quite clear that registration in "most" FoC countries allows the vessels owners to operate at much lower costs with less state intervention. If such multi-nationals wish to seek to register in a third-party state, why don't they pick a more "reputable" country such as one of the historically seafaring nations located in north western Europe?

Having worked on British and West German (as was) ships, I can tell you that gun-running or similar activities could not have been carried out as the operation and regulation of these vessels is far too transparent.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/02/2009 10:58

Hi "TRNC"Vaughan re msg 31/34



Now we may see how transparent the RoC are going to be in handling this "delicate" matter !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/02/2009 06:49

The Republic of Cyprus has accepted neither pressure nor any suggestion

from foreign governments on the issue of a Cypriot-flagged ship, of

Russian interests, which allegedly was carrying arms, Foreign Minister

Markos Kyprianou has said. Speaking here Wednesday, after a meeting

with the Deputy Foreign Minister for European Affairs of Egypt Fatma Al

Zahraa, Kyprianou assured that all foreign governments, interested in

this issue, have respected fully the sovereignty of the Republic of

Cyprus. There has not been any kind of pressure or intervention by

foreign governments.. all moves made on the matter are within the legitimate contacts Nicosia maintains with foreign governments.



Asked if the Israeli Foreign Minister has demanded from Cyprus the

confiscation of the ships cargo, Kyprianou stressed that no government

has indicated to Cyprus what to do, and no government has demanded

anything more than to act in accordance with international law and the

relevant UNSC resolut

captainjohn


Joined: 08/06/2008
Posts: 201

Message Posted:
05/02/2009 11:28

Did you do your training ,at the vindicarix traning school?



I went to sea in 1966, Blue Star Line



Cpt John

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
05/02/2009 12:16

Hi Capt. John,



I did my training at Plymouth School of Nautical Studies and went to sea in 1967 with Marconi (the company, not the man). My all time best secondment was with The Indo-China Steam Navigation Company, also known as Jardine Mathesons, out in Hong Kong for 4 years.