The Talks

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/02/2009 20:47

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=123&sdetail=7597&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



Just to keep you lovely folks updated,

Paul.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
09/02/2009 20:53

re: msg 1 article in famagusta gazette a newspaper published in nicosia:



submit proposals and impose no time limit



that's the way to do it...



bloomin' 'eck, I'm beginning to sound like the little guy in the sailor suit



andre

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/02/2009 21:13

Andre,

Whats the norths version then.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
09/02/2009 22:08

noted the hand behind the back approach

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
10/02/2009 00:10

Paul,



Keep posting these, it's good to get some news/points of view, rather than non at all



Mc

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
10/02/2009 01:19

Hi Steve,

No problem with the posts but it seems that some people on here now just want to hijack posts which is a shame as this board used to be such a friendly site.But i will keep batting away.Not like the England cricket team,

Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/02/2009 09:54

Looks like the RoC spokesman is saying, TR's application oto the EU is linked to a solution to the CY problem and that they ( the GCs) aren't in any rush...



It's probably the "clever" move for them as they hold all the legal cards... unless the ECHR publically rap their knuckles and back up Turkey's IPC in the north as the only game in town re property resolution...and the UK tries to argue that the Annan YES of TCs means we should look at a new status for TCs.. ;)...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/02/2009 10:17

Sorry I wanted to add.. I wish that both sides agreed to SHUT UP and merely say they are still talking - these statements aren't "helpful"..

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
10/02/2009 23:07

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=123&sdetail=7606&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



More to get the grey matter going,

Paul.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 00:35

paul



the report in this nicosia newspaper should be read with caution



the guy is talking about properties in the northern part of cyprus,

an area totally outside of their control

concerning which they can only apply the most tortuous legalistic manoevers



they would be far better off trying to find some common ground

in the current talks, which are not necessarily destined to fail,

but will only ever succeed provided concessions are forthcoming



andre

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 01:02

Thank you once again Paul. Always usefull to view these links.



I fear that Mr Sylikoitis is speaking as if his government control the TRNC.

They clearly do not.

Concerning his measures for valuation of property in the TRNC that an ROC citizen may sell to another ROC citizen.

The Value of anything is that which a purchaser is willing to pay. No more and no less.





I cannot imagine anyone buying property from a person that cannot show that he has possession or indeed free access.



It may be a better option for a potential seller to negotiate with some one that may be actually interested in pursuing purchase such as the Property commission or possibly a person that resides in the TRNC. Such a person may value the said property according to the risks associated with possible dual title issues. The level of risk is likely to be similar to that associated with a TRNC title purchase.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 20:27

Thanks guys,

I always try to keep an open mind on the back biting that goes on with the politicians.And try and keep as updated as possible regarding any breaking news stories.I do feel though that this forum is missing some valuable contributions from people that no longer post,

News Hound Newlad.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 20:36

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=7631&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



Sentiments that should be echoed right accross europe,

Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 20:56

Dear Waz re msg 1



I saw this article on Tuesday am and I wondered what were the developments at the ECHR that seemed to "please" him... We all await to se the report of TURKEY'S local remedy.. the IPC.. ( which I maintain GCs should be "testing" )



Actaully, you are quite wrong to suggest he shouldn't be talking in the way he does..



The properties he refers to are those of dispossessed Cypriot citizens, and he is a representative of said govt.



Now we ALL know the govt doesn't exercise EFFECTIVE control and WHY... !



Paul, spotted a POLL re the effect of the strong Euro on expats and if might effect their decision to STAY in Cyprus..





Has the credit crunch and strong euro made you think about returning home?



Poll Result:





54% 137 Votes Yes



34% 87 Votes No



12% 30 Votes Unsure



Total Votes: 254



Doesn't look so rosy for folk ANYWHERE in Cyprus.. :(

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 21:53

m,

Bloody hell wheres my shot gun time to end it now i think.For gods sake mate cheer up we are in a world recession things will get a bit near to the knuckle.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:33

http://www.turkishdigest.com/2009/02/turkey-cannot-join-eu-until-troops-out.html



Will Turkey now abandon the eu and side with the middle east,

Paul.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:43

Paul, Thanks again for this additional link.



Ms Flints, comments are encouraging and clearly the UK Government is supportive of the Political route to solution which is also my own view.

Again, and thankfully ,no litigation and recognition pedantics.



mmmmmmm. Mark,

The ECHR is, as we all know, directly involved with the Human rights issues of displaced Cypriots. As it is the ROC that has the majority of grievance it is the ROC that has most to gain from Human rights litigation.

The said ROC Minister is simply attempting to strengthen his hand against the TRNC. He certainly has the perogative to explore this possibility but he most certainly frustrating the progress of civil, political dialogue.

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:52

Mr Sylikioits could also use the meeting that he proposes to study the position of Owners in the Republic who don't have title deeds, in the context of the inevitable flood of bankruptcies of Property Development Companies that will take place and the consequent acquisition of the original title by a Bank or Other Lender/ Buyer / Successor of the Company concerned. The scope for "Extortion" of already hard pressed owners seems potentially very wide indeed, as things stand at the moment. It doesn't seem to matter that the present Cyprus System is potentially in Breach of EU Law and the Laws of Natural Justice. (Never bothered anybody did it!)

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:52

msg 16--- the Isreali election result will push the Turkish government to assume the leadership position in the muslim world, something the present government in Ankara will relish.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:55

I think there are people who need their version of a settlement deal enacted

so desperately that they can almost conjure it up, like faustus' helen of troy



reality check 1



any real progress in the talks beggars belief indeed since both sides

have contradictory and mutually exclusive objectives...sad but true



reality check 2



using european courts may indeed result in one-sided compensation awards

which whether or not ever paid up, will not recover one single property



reality check 3



waiting hoping and claiming that one day turkey may get kicked out of cyprus

in return for eu membership is a self-deception of truly galactic proportions,

promoted by people who know a lot, but really understand little about turkey



andre

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 23:07

Will the e.u. now go cap in hand to turkey and beg them to join to stop them joining the middle east,

Paul.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 23:58

paul,



the idea of turkey joining a "middle east" is rather romantic:



the middle east is very fragmented



you have latter-day iraq with a shiite government, the rest are mostly sunni



there are several traditional kingdoms, egypt's leadership and tunisia's are sort of friendly with the west but the populations are already muttering

the bbc's middle east expert says that if either israel or america attacked iran

the arab countries will dance for joy etc etc etc



no it is more likely we would see a nationalistic turkey turning it's back on

europe and looking to build bilateral political and economic links in an area where it is already a mighty player...



leading eu states don't want turkey as a member and neither do their masses,

yes, britain is more sympathetic but their influence is small



curiously, the one link the west dreads most is a tie-up between russia and turkey, but there are rows over gas prices and arguments about pipelines



andre

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 20:41

Andre,

Good post, seems to me that the turks hold all the aces and they know this.They also have plenty of water as well which is also a rich commodity these days,

Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 21:04

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=7652&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=





Off they go again.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 21:41

paul



you know you have called this post "the talks" sorry mate but that,s all they are "talks".......sorry .



musin

long live the kktc

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 13:16

From the UN:

"this is a very early stage of the discussions. They have a way to go, of

course, not surprisingly. As I have always said these are difficult

issues and they are not going to be resolved in one meeting like that,

he added.



Replying to a question on the UN team of experts, Downer said that it

is very important for himself and the people working with him to have a

good understanding of the issues.



``So we of course are able under the budget of the United Nations to

draw on people who are able to ensure that in particularly I understand

all the international precedents and approaches that have been taken to

these types of issues``, Downer (UN envoy) said...



Responding to another question, Donwer said President Christofias and

Turkish Cypriot leader know each other well and have a very good

personal relationship, and that is reflected in the meetings, adding

that this was reflected in todays meeting also."



There was more.. but that is the gist of it..

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 13:24

msge 22



Andre said



"curiously, the one link the west dreads most is a tie-up between russia and turkey, but there are rows over gas prices and arguments about pipelines "



Funny you say that. Gul is in russia right now



ps love your posts. you have a good handle on the psychological and complexity of issues that impact world events

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 13:27

ps Andre



I was trying to work out if Turkey has a natural ally and no country springs to mind? It hasn't been very good at making friends?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 17:44

Dear ILC re msg 28



Historically , TR and RU have exchanged territories



Many places in Russia have TR sounding names Gelendjik - south of Novorossiysk - north of Sochi on the Eastern Black Sea coast..



I was involved in a big project whereby a TR co built a luxury hotel complex in this area and were involved in the biz and management.



Russians love TR "all incl hols"



But when it comes to matters Cyprus, Russian sides with the RoC - their Orthodox Christian brothers... part of the problem for the "TRNC".. if they EVER want to get the UN Sec Council resolutions overturned re the "legality" of "TRNC"..

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 18:04

msge 29



Thank you MM for the info



Interesting how Russia and Roc, Greece are Orthodox Christian brothers. How did they come to share the same religion?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 20:56

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=7663&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



Just keeping the thread at the top,

Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 21:46

Hi ILC, re msg 30





Don't forget the Bulgarians, Serbs.....



http://wsu.edu/~dee/MA/BYZ.HTM



This is the most readable .. You'll see the split from the Roman Empire, The Byzanthians making modern day Istanbul the hub, until the Ottomans seized it 1453..



Then the Orthodox church relied on the Slavs to keep it alive..



The ties go back centuries.. amazingly the Pontians ( Black Sea Greek speakers) who colonised parts of Modern day Turkey and South East Russia. even managed to keep their language and culture alive during 300-400 years of Ottoman rule.



The Greeks still refer to Istanbul as Constantinople - which always makes me chuckle ;)

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 22:03

msg 30



russia finally adopted the orthodox faith under vladimir of kiev in 987

byzantium, rome, the muslims and the jews had been studied:

in the end the greeks relgion was chosen because their ceremonial imagery

fitted in very well with existing russian traditional rituals



the khazar tribe in south russia is thought to have earlier converted to judaism



there has been great rivalry between orthodox and catholics eg in yugoslavia

and the knights of the first crusade which was financed by byzantium

ungratefully sacked and burned the byzantine capital at constantinople



during the period of the ussr the country had 60 million muslim subjects



after the fall of communism, american-style evangelists made many converts



the kremlin's relationship with turkey like that with most of its neighbours,

is suspicious and competitive

russian tourists flock to turkey and egypt, these are inexpensive places

and more or less due south of the russian heartland



andre

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 22:39

Dear Andre



re msg 33 re the Russians flocking to TR and Egypt.. and it's got nothing to do with not needing to get a Visa BEFORE flying ;)



Thailand and the Dominican Republic are also very popular, too and hardly close by..!



The RoC WAS a very popular destination until they joined the EU and made a pre travel Visa necessary.. The RoC have made Visa FREE to Russian Nationals to win back the trade ...

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 22:49

Thanks guys

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 11:52

taken from brt



"Turkish President Abdullah Gul has arrived in Moscow as guest of the Russian President Dimitry Medvedev.



During the visit, Mr. Gul will seek opportunities to improve relations between the two countries and exchange views on regional and international issues.



Gul and Medvedev will also sign a joint declaration to move relations to a new stage and deepen friendship and multidimensional partnership between Turkey and Russia, Gul's office said."



Russia is working hard to build up friends. Guess it has to as it wont join the eu

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 19:35

http://news.google.com/news?q=russia+in+talks+with+turkey&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLR&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&ei=av6WSZK1JpiL-gbluI31CA&sa=X&oi=news_group&resnum=1&ct=title



The turks are like a magnet to the russians at the moment,

Paul.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 19:39

You don't suppose Turkey could be playing the 'if you don't let us join your (EU) gang then Russia will. so ya boo sucks' card by any chance?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 19:46

http://famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?smenu=123&twindow=Default&sdetail=7668&mad=No&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=



Stay optitmistic.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 19:50

rtddci re-mess 38.The turks are playing it canny as they hold some good cards and realise that the eu want them on board for obvious reasons.The "ruskys" also want to play now as well as the middle east.Seems like Turkey is the place to be at the moment,

Paul.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 21:37

re msg 39 link to famagusta gazette



yes paul I agree wholeheartedly with the statement,

attributed to t b zerihoun

that that the prospects of success in the negociations:



"are as good as they have always been"



andre

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 21:57

Andre...msg 41

I would say that quotation is as non-commital as you can get !

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 18:28

http://www.brtk.cc/index.php/lang/en/cat/2/news/46387

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 20:33

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=7808&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 21:33

quote" turkey wants creation of two states" looking good eh paul?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 04:30

Dear ILC, re msg 36



"Russia is working hard to build up friends. Guess it has to as it wont join the eu "



Hi Mark, I don't think that EU membership is on their agenda.. they just don't want Ukraine Georgia, etc to join NATO /EU either ..;)



Turkey would like Russia to be a little less friendly to the RoC.. as it is one of the nations it needs to "convert" if it ever really wanted the "TRNC" recognised..



Such a shame .. 20 years ago I hoped that we might have been able to drive from Galway to the borders of Iran or Vladivostok with needing a visa..

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 20:36

http://www.northcyprusdaily.com/news/Politics/’Remarkable-consensus’-in-Cyprus-talks.asp



At last a view from an n.c perspective,

Paul.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 20:55

"In terms of the appointment of a Turkish Cypriot ambassador to Turkey, Talat said they were negotiating a name and the result would be announced in the next few days..."



Qualifications: Must be prepared to fetch and carry for the Turkish ambassador and carry out orders immediately and without question.