Her Majesty's "democratic" government... not

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
10/02/2009 20:56

News flash: The Dutch MP Geert Wilders is not allowed entrance to the UK, where he wanted to show his film "Fitna" in the House of Lords.



PS. The stupid Dutch MP should of course have told Gordon Brown c.s. that he was from Poland?



PPS. The story is developing - Wilders will try to enter the UK anyway.



P3S. Long live the EU, where everybody can...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/02/2009 21:15

EH, Hans ?!



A Pole/ Netherlands citizen doesn't NEED permission to enter the UK



He/ they can only be refused entry for reasons of Public Health or National security..

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
10/02/2009 21:32

RE msg 2, 6xm : (...) He/ they can only be refused entry for reasons of Public Health or National security... (...)



===> In this case the official reason (Foreign Office) is: "possible disturbance of public order". So much for "freedom of speech" in the UK 2009.



The Dutch minister of Foreign Affairs has already protested in London.



(case will be continued).

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
10/02/2009 23:49

Hans,



Just to show how bad UK is, a certain media personality called Prime Minister Gordon Brown - "a one eyed idiot". There was uproar in the media and in government.



The question is why?? He only has one eye and he is an idiot!!

paddy1966


Joined: 29/06/2008
Posts: 37

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 00:05

Hans,



Tough SH*t



You win some, -- you loose some



XX

ian444


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 71

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 02:51

Dutch crusader



Freedom Party leader Geert Wilders is not banned from the Uk he is banned from entering to show his racist film.



He is so popular in his own country A Dutch court has ordered prosecutors to put the right-wing politician on trial for making anti-Islamic statements.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7842344.stm



He is supported by the BNP in the Uk



http://www.bnp-chronicle.com/2009/01/geert-wilders-free-speech-petition.html





He is calling for the Koran to be banned and comparing it to Hitler’s Mien Kamf, the opening scenes of his film show the pictures of the Koran followed by scenes from of 9/11.



You may be proud of him Dutch Crusader but how about discussing it with some of your Muslim neighbours.

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 04:38

RE msg 2, 6xm : (...) He/ they can only be refused entry for reasons of Public Health or National security... (...)



Or if he smells of cheese

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 08:47

Hippo you do make me chuckle

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 09:24

RE msg 6, ian444:



(...) Freedom Party leader Geert Wilders is not banned from the Uk he is banned from entering to show his racist film. (...)

===> That's what I said in my post, didn't I? So what is your point?



(...) He is so popular in his own country A Dutch court has ordered prosecutors to put the right-wing politician on trial for making anti-Islamic statements. (...)

===> True. And that's the way it should be in a decent democratic country. You can say or show what you want, but the judge decides whether it is within or outside the law. Not the government.



(...) He is supported by the BNP in the Uk (...)

===> I didn't know and it's not relevant in this case, I think.



(...) He is calling for the Koran to be banned and comparing it to Hitler’s Mien Kamf, the opening scenes of his film show the pictures of the Koran followed by scenes from of 9/11. (...)

===> True. Again: the judge decides.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 09:36

Continued from msg 6 & 9 (ian444):



(...) You may be proud of him Dutch Crusader but how about discussing it with some of your Muslim neighbours. (...)

===> The first part is an unfunded remark, to say the least, which I reject. And for the second part: I have Moslim friends and neighbours who think healthier than you obviously do.



I support Freedom of Speech and the right to fight what is said, shown or done. But still and always: Freedom of Speech. Everywhere - but the current UK government qualifies as cowards.



=====



And one for my friend "Hoppi" (msg 7): I ignore your often repeated, intelligent contribution from the muddy waters in the Zoo - as usual.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 10:48

in the uk racism is not acceptable and is a crime

maybe not in holland?

ian444


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 71

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 10:51

message 9

Dutch crusader



As you well know democratic countries have constraints to Freedom of Speech.



The laws on racial incitement In Holland Germany and France are much more draconian than the UK.



Geert Wilders is a minor politician from a small country.

The UK government took the sensible decision to allow him into the British Isles but not to show his racially inflammatory film. If they had, it could have involved protest violence, racial hatred and expensive legal proceedings.



This case has generated virtually no media interest in the UK the only people complaining are the BNP.



Is this the end of free speech in the UK I think not, is it the act of a cowardly government, no just a pragmatic one, who has better things to do than give racially motivated politicians like Geert Wilders the oxygen of publicity he so obviously craves.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 10:57

RE msg 11, fire_starter : (...) in the uk racism is not acceptable and is a crime maybe not in holland? (...)



===> Sigh. Is this a serious question? Can't you read what I wrote above? But especially for you: Racism is *not* allowed in Holland and the judge decides whether someone acted within or outside the law.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 12:00

dutch

i can read thank you!

in the uk we already have the laws in place.

we don't need a judge to decide, the law is the law.

thats why this film is not allowed.

films are also scrutinised in the uk, for there content.



look at the trouble in recent time in denmark regarding the cartoon.

why would the uk goverment want the same problems?

remember we do have a very large muslim population in the uk.



in holland you seem to have less strict laws regarding racism as this film has been show there.

ian444


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 71

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 13:06

Fire starter



The laws in Holland are stricter than the UK if anything. The Dutch courts have in fact ordered him to be prosecuted.



He was just coming to Britain to generate more publicity for himself; he would welcome being dragged through the courts.



Very sensible of the UK government not to ban him, but just not let him show his racist film.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 13:37

RE msg 14, fire_starter : (...) we don't need a judge to decide, the law is the law. thats why this film is not allowed. films are also scrutinised in the uk, for there content. (...)



===> Interesting. If in the UK "the law is the law" (btw: where not?), why are films scrutinised *before* showing them?! In Holland "the law is the law" also and if you break the law you may face the judge. *Afterwards*. It's called Freedom of speech, expression or whatever you want to call it. See the difference?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 13:41

BTW all readers: I am NOT bashing the UK in general, but I think it's interesting to know about each other's country, circumstances etc. Furthermore we don't have to agree on everything, do we?

ian444


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 71

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 23:55

Dutch



It seems I owe you an apology. The Uk Government has now decided to ban

Geert Wilders.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5710559.ece



It is now making headlines. I suspect much to his delight he will be arrested at Heathrow,

Did I say our government was sensible in an earlier post? Will I never learn?

spook


Joined: 23/01/2008
Posts: 244

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 01:01

This question has been asked many times "Whats this topic to do with the

TRNC"

ian444


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 71

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 02:18

Hi Spook



This thread has everything to do with the TRNC. It’s about democracy, freedom of speech, values, racial tolerance and justice.



Factors I think are very relevant as the two presidents meet.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 14:15

RE ian444: When you were writing about a politician of minor importance, whose case was ignored in the British media, I read the Dutch newspapers and saw the diplomatic row coming. Never mind. I just hear on Dutch radio (1 pm in Holland and 2 pm here) that he left for England, because the airline admitted him in the plane to London (which wasn't sure until today). I think he'll be back in Holland soonest... Very stupid to make him a martyr again!



PS. A very good, complete and balanced article in the link (The Times on line) you provided above. Thanks.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 14:25

This is also a very good article: (...) Let Him In - Denying entry to the UK for a Dutch demagogue is bad politics and precedent.



... There is almost nothing on which Mr Wilders cannot be relied upon to be inflammatory, ill advised and illiberal, and this is precisely why the Home Secretary is wrong to deny him entry. Mr Wilders is an elected politician in a member state of the European Union. Freedom of speech, association and travel is part of the political culture of Europe. (...)



Here's the link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article5712187.ece



PS. So good to see that there are still such excellent news papers in the UK!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 19:10

Hey DC, he TRIED to come anyway ;)



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7885918.stm

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 19:16

I heard it all live on Dutch radio, 6xm... He'll enjoy his martyrdom. Not very smart of the British, I think.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 19:38

He is a clever Clog!