The Speech of Rasev Pertev - 11/02/09

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 21:05

Went to Pia bella to say this politician speak, he has been a friend to HBPG for a couple years being one of the few responsive people to our predicaments.



The first thing he emphasised is that we deserve support because we are mainly HOME BUYERS and not property speculators.



He had been Chief Negotiator over the Cyprus issue. One thing he made clear was that the GC had always made strong efforts to destroy the construction industry but in his view the industry has destroyed itself. When later asked about a final resolution, because the government have opted out by calling an election it will probably be another couple of years before issues of a Federal Resolution are finally thrown. Followed by a further couple to decide on a final divorce.



His view of the current state of politics in TRNC is of total disarray and with the current modes operating things will never change. This system is based on "favours" ie you scratch mine and I will scratch yours. (we know what he means)

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 21:12

cont.



He went to great lengths to explain that all outsiders are rejected here. That is not just foreigners, it includes those who left and returned also peopl in outlaying areas are also excluded. His own career development is a good example having gone to England for University and then worked at senior levels in EU type organisations ( sorry for my missing info). On deciding to return to try to help his home country he finds he has lost all political rights, no different to the rest of us.



He is adament that he wants to see a government run by rules and regulations not by Favours, this would include slashing the number of civil servants.



Obviosuly, he does not see his People Party taking a majoirty of seats in the election but has high hopes of having enough to partake as ajunior member of a coalition. First thing would be to fight for equal rights for ALL.







I think that covers most, but he included several good anecdotes to high lite points and was a good speech.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 21:13

Last point at end of session.



It is not illegal to take positive protest action. Mr Pertev has checked this with the Attorney General after the last attempt by HBPG. So if there is a call to arms, get out there boys and girls.

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 21:14

Cyprusishome, are there any minutes taken of the meeting/presentations etc?



If so are they available for interested parties? i would have liked to have attended the Pia Bella meeting today, however, Im stuck in the UK trying to wade thru the Mountains of %hit that this Goverment (UK) and the Jodrell Bank (Er's) have caused!



nunu1

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 21:15

I know Sibel was taking notes but if it will be produced as minutes...!!



This after all was a speech not a meeting.

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 21:24

OK Fair enough...So is Rasev Pertev a person in the spotlight to take over from Mr Talat?



Interesting points from the above threads.....I think that the majority of purchasers from UK are genuine people that have fallen in Love with the TRNC, the People, the mixed culture, the way of life and the Fantastic healing climate!.....All we want is quality of life no stupid keeping up with the Jones'ses and Ive go a Merc and a 4x4.......But Quality of life!



If the Cypriots can understand this and we mean well and the type of person that moves to North or South Cyprus, then I think things can and will move along and help sort out the political divide for all.!



We dont want to take over the place, just blend in, and help each other in life and business? yes? Does this make sense?



nunu1

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 21:28

Nunu



'We dont want to take over the place, just blend in, and help each other in life and business? yes? Does this make sense?'



It does make sense to me but unfortunately there a lot of others out there that do not think the same way.

AJ

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:01

cih. nunu and AJ lets hope he can get enough votes to make a difference AJ you are wel up on the polotics here who do you see and what would thier agenda be.Many are related to present and past mps etc wouldnt they all go the same way. we are just becoming social outcasts now we have lined thier pockets. We all want a better future we came for that. Little did we know we would loose so much money but we were not alone with aga so we dont feel so stupid. Because of it we hae to work and thats hard enough but its called survival. A few more years and Guido can actually claim a retirement pension here with all we have paid in. I wonder if any expat who paid social segorta actually got one on retirment age.Its just so awful being taken for second class when mostly expats elevated them to thier nice positions. But then they have no one to answer to not even turkeyHow much will it all cost to become a resident finally then maybe a citzen. sorry but all these posts worry usBuy your dream liv

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:06

sorry mind rummming away again. Buy your dream live your nightmare. Im sorry on my soapbox. I dont understand all the polocies or promises and if the talks are not any where near completion what happens with a new government.I hope you dont think im being stupid but as I know all 3 of you perhaps in laymans terms (a woman can undestand) your collective knowledge would be great thank you all see you soon xxxx

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:12

Rasev Pertev IS A MINORITY and all Minority's will say anything to make them popular with the masses aka liberal party in UK not a snow balls chance in hell of being elected but like to sound good on SOUND BITES.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:14

Liz,



The general concensus is that the talks are failing and from what Mr Petev implied, no stated, under Talat they will not suceed. Therefore the government resigned to avoid the embaresment of failure despite all their rhetoric. Mr pertev went so far as implying that Christofas has Talat wrapped around his little finger especially knowing the ego of Talat was looking to a Nobel!!!!



If there is a change of government now, the right do not want a federal solution at any cost ie they want the total split. So the talks will start again, Christofas will fight for a federal solution with the backing of EU, USA etc and the talks will fail.



My opinion as regualrly stated is that Turkey do not want membership of EU so they have nothing to loose fighting for the divorce scenario. That said they will insist on TRNC government becoming more responsible with the funds the hand over annually. This a point made by Mr Pertev.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:15

Lilli

From the heart.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:18

May be the case Nige but you know how the MP's jump from party to party, creating their own etc that who knows who will be in what party come April 19th.



This man has no illusion of being a majority but under the system of proportional representation applied here he could hold power. As is the current deputy prime minister belonging to a party of 6 MP's.

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:19

Vote Lilli!...Thats it! Your purpose Liz....in life!



You do speak sense and seem very knowlegable.



I liked you the minute I met you!....My Italien Mate said own a Restaurant dont try to run it! That way get everybody else running around you in your Restaurant Si?.......Sorry me no speaka Italiano!



VOTE LILLI!



nunu1

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:22

Hi Lilli

Unfortunately although I support Rasit Pertev I think that the UBP party will be the party of choice. I was disappointed with the general attitude of the expats at the meeting and it was the usual negative attitude of 'what can we do we don't have a vote'. I spoke to Rasit and his right hand man Mustafa after the meeting and both would like to get expats seriously involved in their campaign but the problem is the usual story expats bleat but do nothing.

I feel strongly about this subject and unless expats get to grips with what is happening politically here in the TRNC then ultimately they only have themselves to blame.

AJ

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:28

nunu we cant my love we dont get voting rights here. Maybe we can show support but you already saw they do not want us. What would our votes matter.. As a matter of interest and im sure mmmmmmmmmm will tell me can an eu citizen vote in south side. Your italian mate whom we know he has the luck to have a great restaurant in uk you try here and get staff that can even understand you . Neale it aint easy my love.We do our best and only ask for support to help us through.Speak to you soon via email as have msg from chart for you xxxx

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:44

AJ



Ex-pats can do nothing in the TRNC, they have no rights whatsover.



How can you say that ex-pats do nothing. On this and other bb's its ex-pats who not only support but are also at the forefront of many things in the TRNC. From KAR, SOS project, the pegasus car rally, 112 fund the list is endless.



As "visitors" we have no rights and Mr Pertev also know this. Do you think our neighbours will vote for someone because we ask them to? If you were in the UK would you appreciate if your resident neighbour asked you to vote for one political party?



Im afraid to say that many of Mr Pertevs comments are actually true and is a fair reflection on what is happening with the current government. Is the next government going to do anything different? Prob not

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 22:58

Stubs

I do not disagree with the major part of your posting but Rasit is actively asking for expats to support his party and that can be done in many ways. I am disappointed with your reaction, here is the best chance possible for expats to have representation in the TRNC Government and as usual none of you are grabbing the bull by the horns. You will all be agents of your own misfortune unless you all try to understand what is going on in this country that we have all adopted.

AJ

Mindy



Joined: 27/10/2008
Posts: 1210

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 23:03

When Mr Pertev touched on Mr Talat, I believe he said he was a fence-sitter (my words) saying 'Yes' then adding a 'but' or saying 'no' then adding a but,.

I had this picture in my mind of Vicky Pollard from "Little Britain"



Yeh but, no but ,yea but ,no but.

On the whole an interesting speech, I do hope he succeeds in his quest, TRNC's national debt would be halved over night by getting rid of half the employees in public service.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 23:12

AJ



I understand what you are saying. One of the problems is that Rasit Pertev's party is not big enough to have a say. Even if he is part of a coalition government he will have to make changes to his policies as he would be a minority.



Many ex-pats have been listened to by the government ie HBPG but most of that has came to nothing so far except more broken promises and dare i say down right lies from the current government.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 23:13

Personally I actually like what Rasit Pertev says much of it makes sense but he is a minority as culturely Cypriots will look after themselves. As he is promising to cut civil servants jobs, i believe this accounts for somewhere in the region of 60% of the population, they are not going to vote for him. Turkeys wouldnt vote for Christmas. From what i have followed he is someone who was trusted by Talat however he did not believe things were being done right and left to start his own party. That shows balls and principles however I dont think enough of his own countrymen will back him which is a shame.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 23:17

In the recent Kadem poll (987 people polled) 70% of TC's stated they were unhappy with the CTP party. They have failed for reasons ranging from the economy, the unfair and partisan distribution of government jobs, broken promises and failure to resolve the Cyprus problem.



27% of TC's state that they are facing legal proceedings over their failure to pay interest on debts.



The creator of the poll says that the UBP are set to win the next election.

Quarmby


Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 975

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 23:20

AJ

What exactly can the ex-pat community do to help Rasit get a position in government?

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 23:27

AJ, msg 15



I think your comment - "I was disappointed with the general attitude of the expats at the meeting and it was the usual negative attitude of 'what can we do we don't have a vote'. - is wrong.



I feel the majority were very supportive, by turning up for starters, well done folks. It was a minority who chose to pick up on a couple of words and tried to use it to do the knocking.



I have heard Marian say on a couple of occasions that people have to get off their behinds to get things done and I believe the message is slowly getting through, nobody is going to help you here except those at HBPG.



Stubs has a valid point, why will 10's of thousands of civil servants vote for someone who will potentially make them redundant. That said, who would have bet on Margaret Thatcher winning in 1979???



Here it has to be yavas, yavas and give the guy our support and maybe in 5 years things will change.

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 23:35

Also went to meeting and agree with Cyprusishomes' summary.



Mr Pertevs talk was very good and I believe his aims is really to try to get at least one member of parliament rather than seriously expecting to be a significant size party in one go.



It would be good to see him succeed but obviously his influence would still be small but hopefully worthwhile to at least bring some alternative perspectives, experiences and and views to the TRNC political scene. If even a few good ideas are taken up by the next government it would be an achievement.



Another possibility is to attract disenchanted elected members of other parties after the election such I understand happened with formation of the ORP although he didn't refer to this idea in his speech.



Aussie

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 23:41

Please see my earlier post re the minutes of the meeting or read the link:

http://trncvillaowners.phpbb3now.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5666



Unfortunately, apathy never changed anything. The only way to change things is to try, OK so it might not work the first time, but Obama probably said that too! Instead of people moaning that they can't do anything, why don't you try? You never know what will happen. If the HBPG thought that, we would've given up ages ago. You are the only ones who can make a change together.



Sibel

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
11/02/2009 23:48

From my understanding of the present political climate I concur with ILC ref message 22 and if the UBP become the party of choice then we will all be thrown into the maelstrom again. I have looked and asked but I cannot find the UBP's political manifest. As far as I am aware there is a strong Dentkash influence so that may be good for us expats but there again!

Watch this space.

AJ

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 00:08

Politics!...Yep Trying to get a straight answer with meaning and substance is the hardest thing!



I will say one thing, One of our local UK MP's John McDonell (Labour)(Hayes and Harlington) Has campaigned against the development of Heathrow Airport in Particular the 3rd Runway Proposal.



With big respect to Mr McDonell, he stood up in the Houses of Parliament on the announcement of the approval (Done deal 15 + Years ago, Public Corrupt enquiry going on 5 years £5 MILLION POUNDS Taxpayer) Stood up Raging in Protest and picked up the Mace.....Was asked to refrain, step down and banned for 1 week for His Behaviour!

So....With that in mind, You always need somebody with courage, integrity common sense and vision!



Hence, I have respected Mr Talat for His Passion and dedication, Im not sure of the latest....I think G Elections are coming up?

He Mr Talat has tried very hard to get a SOLUTION

So ...If He is not going to win next election, you have to support somebody that talks sense

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 00:29

AJ:



''I have looked and asked but I cannot find the UBP's political manifest. As far as I am aware there is a strong Dentkash influence...''



No kıddıng, Sherlock

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 01:28

Would I kid you John?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 11:37

i have recently spoken to 2 different people involved in politics here.

one we had lunch with at bayram

when i asked him about the expats getting their kochans he just laughed in my face

the other i know through friends.

went hubby pointed out to him the amount of expats leaving and why, he claimed they didn't know

so hubby said if needed he would go along to one of their meetings to explain

well no offer to go has been forth coming.

neither are members of the hp party.

recently in the village a new kebab shop was proposed.

7 men from the village had to eat there and vote on whether or not this guy got his licence.

hubby asked why he couldn't go and was told because you are english.

until this kind of attitude changes it doesn't matter who gets into gov.

its ingrained into society here.

i wish rasit pertev all the best luck in the world because he is going to need it!

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 17:11

Rose,



That is exactly the point that was made yesterday. From your wording you could have actually been at Pia Bella!!!!!



Unless some one progressive like Rasev Pertev is elected then it will not matter which parties are in power, we are all stuffed. That does apply to Mr Pertev too as he is an outsider having been educted and worked abroad. Hence the problem he and his party will have.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 17:17

so sad no wind of change then.When will they learn than an educated person may have wisdom and vision to take the place foward. My guess the like thier status quo. Will we change anything. Im sure if we felt our voices would be heard then we could all back AJ .

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 17:40

The minutes of the HBPG meeting will be available soon, but they are very long, so please be patient. Well done Sheila for working on them and I'll post them as soon as they're done.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 18:14

I have reread the postings on here and nobody has answered Quarmbys posting msge 23



What exactly/specifically does Pertev want the ex pat community to do? What does he feel ex pats can do? What is the primary objective and what is the very first step towards that?



You will have to tread carefully. Locals do not take kindly to foreigners telling them what to do in any country, and probably more so in the TRNC. We take it for granted, that we mostly live in a rule governed society in the UK, but to jump from a brotherhood society to one that is rule governed is quite a momentus step.



For people to continue the current system they must be experiencing it as working (at least for those who hold the power) . To change they must experience the system as not working or hold the vision of a better system.



In any change you have to identify the influencers and the change open people. Seems to me that if the UBP is going to win, you need to be spending energy influencing them.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 18:33

Dear CiH re msg 11



Hi Dave,

you said "My opinion as regualrly stated is that Turkey do not want membership of EU so they have nothing to loose fighting for the divorce scenario. That said they will insist on TRNC government becoming more responsible with the funds the hand over annually. This a point made by Mr Pertev. "



You appear to have overlooked that if there is no political solution, then TR will be totally responsible to pay fro the upkeep of "TRNC" AND to resolve the property issue...



There will be a settlement - whether it is Talat or the "right"... whether TR gets in the EU or not..

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 19:32

I Love Cyprus re msg 35.



i too am a little puzzled about what Mr Pertev's motives are for attending the HBPG meeting. Ex-pats can do very little with regards the governing of the TRNC.



The system there is not going to change not in the near future anyway. It is common knowledge that there are too many civil servants which is draining money from the public purse. I have suggested a long time ago that if the government really wanted to raise some serious money then they should give all the ex-pats their title deeds and collect the tax monies due. The possible revenue from that would be tens of millions of ££££'s. Of course no one is going to listen to a foreigner saying that are they?



I do wish Mr Pertev well though. It is just a pity that there are not enough people who hold responsible positions who share his sentiments.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 20:47

I know Mark and there is nothing any of us can do to affect the issue.



One problem I can see by supporting Mr Pertev is he may get further alienated as an outsider (his term) by those that do not like foreigners being here.



You know I only dabble around the fringes of the politics discussions because they generally end up with a "he says, she says scenario" (or MM and ES are pr**s) and unlike a debate no concluding vote is taken. It would be interesting if it were possible on these forums to do so freely and fairly.



Oh well, head back in!!!!!!!



Bet you wish you were back in this country with the great weather you are having.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
12/02/2009 21:36

I still think that some people are missing the point:

First of all some need to acquaint themselves with Rasit's history in politics, secondly he has supported the HBPG now for a long time and has access to people and departments in the government that otherwise would not be accessible to HBPG.

There is a good chance of Rasit Pertev becoming a junior member of a coalition government even if his 'Peoples Party' do not gain any significant ground in the forthcoming elections.

If this happens then Rasit will be the only member of the coalition government that will actively support expats (including TC's that have previously left the TRNC and on returning to their homeland find that they do not have the same rights as those that have lived here permanently). So lets just all ignore it and lose the best chance we have ever had of having a voice in the government.

AJ

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 11:25

msge 38



Hi David



You bet, I would love to be in NC right now. It is expected to get a little warmer in the UK on Sunday, but still too damn cold compared to NC weather.



Msge 39



Hi Dave



Sounds like Rasit might be well connected. How does he want to use the ex pats? Whats his strategy?

cocos


Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 12:28

Having listened to Pertev at the meeting and researching him, he seems to be the only genuin person who wants to make a change for the TRNC with regards to corruption, economy, rights of all residents etc. The way we can support him is to support any fundraising his party does to raise awareness, speak to TC's who do have a vote, spread the word. Yes, he has a difficult job, but he is the best hope for the benefit of the TRNC as a whole.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 12:34

The minutes of the meeting are available here: http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/Minutes/minutes110209.html

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 12:59

msge 42



Thanks kibrissibel for producing such thorough minutes. Brilliant



Rasev sounds like a really good guy and his talk is most interesting.



My suspicion has always been that the NC government is more akin to an African state than a European one. It makes perfect sense, being a pariah and isolated means cultural, emotional, political and social development is much harder to achieve.



Hopefully, some people on this forum will take note about what Rasev says in regard to who runs the TRNC.

Clearly as he says Turkey needs to start acting like an authoratative parent. The child needs to learn the value of rules and regulations. As he also stated the IMF are likely to force Turkey to be more responsible in it's dealings with NC

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 13:22

Hi Dave, re msg 38



Aha, talking about the weather is a neat way to divert me ;)



Veta really enjoyed the snow and was sorry to note it started to melt , yesterday !! :0



Hope you are both well ..

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 13:44

Just had a quick look at the CEPS report. It seems that ultimately TC's want democracy but they are open to a non - democratic yet effective and efficient forms of government.

Makes sense, lets get rules in place before we get democratic. Chaotic (brotherhood) governance needs to move from rules to democracy, less likely to work the other way around.



The big challenge for Rajev and any settlement is this -

"Both communities tend to trust only their immediate surroundings including the family (98% GC and 96% TC) and peole they know personally (85% GC and 76% TC), while both are distrustful of strangers and people of other nationalities and faiths. GC's in particular also appear to be fomenting the potential for ethnic intolerance and xenophobia with only 8% of GC's (as opposed to 37% of TC's) believing that ethnic diversity enriches life.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/02/2009 13:47

ps



"elements of mistrust and sceptism persist. Both communities tend to be generally mistrustful of others with only 5% of GC's and 11% of TC's agreeing that 'others generally try to be fair"

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 10:29

even when i speak with my tc friends they cannot understand equal rights for all.

they ask why the uk gov givs soo much to foreigners?



i know from family that rasit pertev may well be for equal rights including those of the turkish people here.

this won't win him votes with the old school cypriots..

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/02/2009 12:00

Equality is damn hard to achieve, as humans like all species, are driven by a pecking order. The UK has done a good job to create equality (long way to go still and will probably never fully achieve it).



TC's do need to trust more but it's not easy. There seems to be quite a strong correlation between trusting and economic propsperity (and likley political development)



Trust can be developed in many ways. One study showed that trust can increase by as much as 10% by people travelling to foreign countries.