Riots in the South!

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
05/01/2008 13:23

Riot police were called to disperse a mob carrying Greek flags, torches and a banner with the slogan " This land doen't want you" outside RAF Akrotiri yesterday. Things started peacefully then around 120 youths started throwing rocks at vehicles being driven by British military personnel before local police moved in to disperse them.



I guess that if they can't get the North back then they will try and do an "ethnic cleansing" of the Brits down south!!!



Anyone fancy a re-unification of Cyprus???????????



Jim

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
05/01/2008 14:02

thats quite worrying for the brits in the south is'nt it jim , is it just the military or brits perse ?

regards pat

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
05/01/2008 14:42

Pat

Not sure, I would think its a militant group wanting the British military presence removed rather than a threat to British citizens. However it brings to mind the dangers to TC's if the Turkish army were to quit the Island or a so called re-unification took place.

Jim

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
05/01/2008 15:08

The GC's just don't like the Sovereign Base areas

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
05/01/2008 15:20

lovingcyprus



Not sure that the GC's like very much, certainly when it comes to harmony on the Island.



The RAF bases in Cyprus may be sovereign but they play a vital role in the middle east for NATO which ultimately helps provide the "peace" in the region that GC's benefit from as well.



Jim.

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
05/01/2008 16:51

wackyjim



The Sovereign bases in Cyprus are in effect part of the UK the GC's have no say whatsoever in what happens on them. That is what upsets the GC's

Tim10


Joined: 01/01/2008
Posts: 114

Message Posted:
05/01/2008 17:54

The fact is that the Greeks are very much like the French -- always a little bit of civil uprest and they tend not to like anyone but themselves.



Does this surprise anyone?



Not me!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/01/2008 12:10

I missed this thread, only just read it



The bases provide employment for 3,500 GC's and contributes 60 million pounds per year to their economy.



It does seem to me though, that the British government holds them over a barrell here. Any attempts by the GC's to remove these bases is threatened by us Brits, by saying that we will recognise the North if they are removed.



Nobody likes to be told what to do in their own country.

Tim10


Joined: 01/01/2008
Posts: 114

Message Posted:
09/01/2008 12:14

I am sure the North would love to have the UK bases. It would be sooooooo!! painful to the Greek Cypriots. Would we not all be pleased?

daily


Joined: 01/01/2008
Posts: 84

Message Posted:
09/01/2008 19:40

I was under the impression that the Greek Cypriots were quite different to the Greeks and therefore wouldn't collectively refer to both as 'the Greeks' - Tim10, message 7.

Didn't many Greek Cypriots oppose the strive for enosis - the Greeks desire to include Cyprus in one complete Hellenic empire - and many actually fought and died in the fighting against the Greeks who invaded in 1974.

Can this anti-British attitude therefore be attributed to the GC's in general or, as wackyjim said, isn't it just a militant group at work who don't represent the feelings of the majority?

Could Ukturk or Izzet clarify further for me?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/01/2008 20:56

daily, I have noted that you have followed tim10 on a couple of messages and taken exception to what he has said. I might have misread this situation and I don't know what is going on. I am not an adjudicator on this site, I am just conveying what I notice.

I think tim10 got a battering when he first came on to this site. He may have created this situation, but since, it has been nice that he has tried very hard to get integrated in to this group by writing many posts.



It's an interesting one about the differences between Greeks and GC's. Also did the Greek Cypriots want to be integrated in to the Hellenic system or did the Greeks want to integrate the GC's in to the Hellenic system?



You are right to ask ukturk and Izzet. They will know more.

The info I have is taken from the writings of Zaim Necatigil, who was the attorney General of the TRNC. I have pulled out the stuff that might be able to answer your question:

1915 - Britain offers the whole of Cyprus to Greece in return for troops to aid in the first world war. Greece says no.

1943 - Colonnial government of Cyprus convenes a consultative assembly to study proposals which provide for constitutional changes and envisage some degree of self government; proposals rejected by Greek Cypriots who demand complete self determination (Enosis) i.e union of Cyprus with Greece

1950 - Greek Orthodox church holds a plebiscite (no idea what that means) on Enosis which shows 96% in favour of Enosis. Makarios as Bishop of Kitium, plays a leading role in the organisation of the plebiscite, and on his election as Archbishop takes the oath to work for Enosis

1954 - Frustration of first appeal to UN by Greece, callling for Enosis.

Nov: Lt Col George Grivas arrives secretly to organise the struggle for Enosis

1955 - campaign in favour of Enosis started by EOKA under Grivas, code name 'Dighenis'



Sorry Daily I would go on but my dinner is calling and I'm getting hungry.

Looks like a case of the mother wanting to be reunited with the child and the child wanting to be repatriated with the mother.

Also looks like the orthodox church in both countries played a big part and contunue to do so.

lovelife


Joined: 07/07/2007
Posts: 231

Message Posted:
09/01/2008 21:14

plebiscite is



' direct vote of the whole nation or of the people of a district on a special point, an ascertainment of general opinion on any matter'

No I am not clever, just had a dictionary next to my computer and was interested to know what it meant.



LL

daily


Joined: 01/01/2008
Posts: 84

Message Posted:
09/01/2008 22:46

I love cyprus



I had no intention in attacking Tim10 on this occasion - trust me - I'm not subtle about it when I feel aggrieved!This is for debate only as I have just finished reading 'The Genocide Files' over Christmas and got the impression that Greeks and Greek Cypriots were quite different in some respects.



Thanks for the response!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/01/2008 11:28

Thanks lovelife. Never heard of the word. Thanks for the definition.



Hi daily. If you get a chance it would be really great if you were able to share the differences expressed in the book or any interesting facts



Have a great day

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
10/01/2008 12:16

Hi



When I heard about the riots in the south against British base, my immediate thought was that the Cypriots are losing the battle against North Cyprus and that this was a warning shot to UK and west that if they go against the south, this is the price they will pay - desperate actions to retain the status quo!



Like Turkey, I personally, hope that NC doesn't allow foreign bases on it's soil as I wuld like to see NC become a proud and independent state.



Regards

Tim10


Joined: 01/01/2008
Posts: 114

Message Posted:
10/01/2008 12:33

There is nothing wrong with foreign military bases -- as long as they are by invitation and are not forced on the host country (like US bases in the Phillipines, Cuba and Japan). Actually, a strong foreign military base might deter hostile action against the host country by a third party. But I again state: such a presence must be desired by the host country and once the host country decides to end the agreement, the visiting military should pack up and go.



Milou: Turkey does have a US airbase on its soil.

TonyH


Joined: 22/11/2007
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
10/01/2008 13:19

I think you may be getting confused with the status of the British forces bases in Cyprus, North and South...........yes North too.



They are British territory......Sovereign Based Areas and have full Crown rights.



The base in the North is in the Famagusta area, once a year a trip is made by boat, a representative sets foot on the jetty, walks up and down gets back on the boat and returns to the SBA in Akrotiri, much to the delight of the Turkish military I'm sure. This yearly 'visit' maintains that the Brits still view the area as Crown property.

Tim10


Joined: 01/01/2008
Posts: 114

Message Posted:
10/01/2008 15:50

TonyH,



I was unaware of the UK base in the North.



I received an e-mail disputing the fact there is a US base in Turkey.



As I promised in my return e-mail, I will provide proof:



http://www.incirlik.af.mil/



The UK also has fighter jets at this base (at least they did until 2003). Look at the 4th paragraph:



http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/article123439.ece



So much for the claim that the Turkish do not have a military presence on their soil.

Tim10


Joined: 01/01/2008
Posts: 114

Message Posted:
10/01/2008 15:58

As per the point of history that "Daily" has claimed, history is open to interpretation. There are historical events, which are open for dispute, and historical facts, which are not. Daily has noted, in my opinion a historical fact. However, if I can be proven otherwise, I am willing to listen.



For clarification: A historical fact would be the outbreak of WW1 in 1917. A historical event would be that WW2 happened as a result of the allies giving the Germans a bad deal at the end of WW1.



WW=World War

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/01/2008 16:08

That is really interesting TonyH. I didn't know that about the base in the North. How big is it ?

Also, what is meant by full crown rights? What makes it so definable and immovable?



I have heard that the Yanks have used North Cyprus to fly small missions in to the Middle East. I guess, why wouldn't they, as Turkey is a NATO ally.



From what I understand, the 'jewell in the crown' for the British, are the not so secret, high intelligence bases up in the Troodos mountains. Gives them the ability to eavesdrop on the whole of the middle east.



Milou, was the intention/purpose/goal of this riot reported in any of the Cypriot papers? Really what I mean is, did it report a wider objective?



I am sure it is a militant action as wackyjim stated, although, you never know, it could be symptomatic of a wider malaise. It has been reported that Greek chldren are taught to hate the Turkish. I don't know how true or false this is, and if true I don't know how widespread it is, or whether just isolated incidencies.



The youth of the world has always rioted, probably because they have the vigour to do so. For me, it would be more worrying if they were joined by more middle aged people. This would then suggest that the populas has lost patience, sees no way out and then takes matters in their own hands.



I have read a little about ethnic rioting that gets out of control. The conditions needed are as follows:

1) You need to have a dominant minoriy. i.e a non indigenous people who control the wealth by exploiting the natural resouces, and they either directly or indirectly control the political

2) You need the indigenous people to be poor or relatively poor

3) You need a strong, militant and angry leader or party with a nationalistic message to stir nationalistic patriotism.



If we look at these then:

1) The British in the south don't dominate the South financially nor the political agenda, although there is some loss of indigenous political power because of the sovereign bases. Thye may also be frustrated the the British are not doing more to stop the Brits buying in the north.

2) The GC's are relatively well off (unless someone wants to correct me on this )

3) There doesn't seem to be a nationalistic militant leader (unless Papadoplous falls in to this category - please correct me if I am wrong)



This is only one way to think about it there will be others so this theory is not foolproof



sorry had to rush this as have to go out

TonyH


Joined: 22/11/2007
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
10/01/2008 16:16

The base is Famugusta port which the Brits still view as their property and consequently make the point of going there once a year, berthing on it, a senior officer walks the lenght of the jetty, gets back on the landing craft and sails away............good stuff, typically ecentric Brit stuff.



Re the Crown rights, there are better historians on here than me who will point to the relevent treaty, basically Crown rights view it as British soil and all that it entails such as birth certificates for somebody born there is the same as if you were born in Croydon for example.

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
10/01/2008 16:54

Ilovecyprus



Yes - I read about the riots but didn't know about the bases.



Regards

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/01/2008 20:06

Thanks Tony, I would love to see that, the senior officer walking the jetty. What a carry on

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
11/01/2008 21:26

ilovecyprus



Papadoplous is ex Eoka

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
11/01/2008 21:28

ilovecyprus



You made the following statement "It does seem to me though, that the British government holds them over a barrell here. Any attempts by the GC's to remove these bases is threatened by us Brits, by saying that we will recognise the North if they are removed".



The British have never ever said this

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/01/2008 15:43

Hi lovingcyprus



Papadoplous is ex EOKA - that is very true. Not sure if youth is on his side though. Mind you, he still might have the energy. He seems to find the energy in his rhetoric.

I wasn't totally clear with condition 3. Normally a nationalistic leader rises as a consequence of condition 1 and 2 being met. Paps could rise to this, but I wonder if there are any more youthful/militant figures coming to the fore. I don't know enough about GC politics to answer this.



If I think in greater detail about condition 1, then to a large extent this is being met, as the GC's can believe that there natural resources, their land, is being exploited in the North.



In terms of condition 2, I don't really know the financial plight of those that were displaced. I have presumed that they have been looked after, but it doesn't seem as simple as that



Your qoute - 'The British have never ever said this'.

If they did say this, then, I am not sure they would be shouting too loud about this. I don't know if it is true, but it seems plausible to me, if not factual. I might be inclined to question its authenticity, now knowing that the bases are actually British land. I took the statement from Michael Stephenson in his book 'The Cyprus question', page 146. He says:

"In july 2001 a GC mob attacked the British base at Akrotori in Southern Cyprus (interesting that it has happened before) - drawing attention in Britain to the vulnerability of those bases. The facilities at the bases are used by the Americans as well as the British and they are both anxious to preserve them. It is arguable that neither the US nor the UK actually want a Cyprus settlement because they can at present threaten to recognise the TRNC if the Cypriots become difficult"



Ah lovincyprus, he's last statement is his interpretation, so you are right to question the validity of the statement.