Latest on the talks

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 10:10

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=7737&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



Just keeping you all abreast,

Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 10:28

Usual postering .. GCs not liking anything to do with the A word and TCs saying in public something that will make any plan hard to sell to GCs, if they think it is A-plan again.. which it sort of WILL be, but the trick to "success" is to emphasise any difference..



BET the end offer will be similar to Annan but less territory going to "southern" part and more property ownership - but not possible to take possession - to south side ( leasing) ..



Second home owners / non Cypriots will not fair as well... they don't VOTE..

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 11:48

m,

Please lend me your crystal ball,lol

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 13:13

Marky Mark my friend and also adversery

Answer this question



How can they differentiate between ex pats living on greek land and Tc's living on Greek land and shops built on Greek land, and britis living on Greek land.

You mean we will be sold down the river and the TC's wont.?



And that is why there will not be an element in any setlement that causes people to lose thier homes.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 17:09

Dear Hippo re msg 5



TCs voted for a plan that DID differentiate - it did not allow GCs to move back to areas defined as being in the TC Autonomous area



They also voted for having to give up territory AND a fair number of TR mainlanders would have had to return to TR..



Finally, folk who had bought on dispute land post 2003 had to pay out far more in compo.. THAT was obviously aimed at non Cypriots..



SO.. if the EU / UN think it's ok to restrict the freedom of movement of EU citizens of a certain ethnicity, don't think for a second that Cypriots are too worried about your rights..



It may sound "harsh" - but this is a Cyprus problem and those folk who HAD to leave THEIR land have to be dealt with first..



I doubt many Cypriots will have to move - save those in areas being "handed" to the GC "region" in any bi-zonal Settlement...



I reckon the houses/ land belonging to GCs will be "theirs again" -but only as lessors.. with no ride to abode for a long time..

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 17:17

Well the land that my house is on was given?? alocated??? exchanged?? whatever and he/she has sold it to me been paid for it.

So as you advocate as long as aTC hung on to land and developed it for himself or another TC then they will retain ownership in any settlement and because i am British I wont??

i did not come here squat on a piece of land and build a house i bought it from a a TC., so the compensation lies with the vedor not the customer.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 17:36

hippo:



"How can they differentiate between ex pats living on greek land and Tc's living on Greek land and shops built on Greek land, and britis living on Greek land. You mean we will be sold down the river and the TC's wont.?



I think the answer to your question will be yes. This peace plan is about the human and property rights of CYPRIOTS, not Turkish or British settlers.

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 18:34

Read what i said i bought from a TC !!!!

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 20:08

hippo



But the tc had no rights to sell what is not his!! NO tc property has been sold on the south to expats & if it has it has been done with the tcs permission after he has lived in it for 6months...

vincehugo


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 20:21

Mark, re Msg 6



"Finally, folk who had bought on dispute land post 2003 had to pay out far more in compo.. THAT was obviously aimed at non Cypriots.. "



Could you tell me what you based this on?

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 20:27

Macha/juliet here goes pikey again.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 20:44

The Anan plan of 2004 was rejected, even after several amendments, by the ROC.

A great deal has changed since 2004 particularly relating to a very evident property, populus and economic boom in the TRNC. The ROC has asscended to the EU and remains seperated from the northern enclave.



It is my opinion that the ROC position has weakened since 2004 and will continue to decline with time. Certainly asspects of the Anan plan could be resurected as a revitalised basis for settlement.

Clearly, many people are interested in property issues. Property is most likely to be dealt with in general with some regional differentiation. It will certainly not be the case that post 1974 building will be handed over to ROC citizens.

The possibility of ROC citizens becoming lessors of land is unlikely to be considered by TRNC. Compensation as per the Anan plan is a distinct possibility. Sale of land and or compulsory purchase is also a more favourable option to the TRNV administration.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 21:35

Dear Waz, re msg 13



Annan was rejected because the President of the RoC didn't negotiate in good faith and told GCs he would get a better deal - based on "EU norms" - he argued that it wasn't right that folk of a certain ethnicity could be prevented from freedom of movement and the right to come back to their land / home..



As he didn't bother at Burgenstock the "blanks " were filled by UN appointees and the plan was doomed..



"Many people are interested in property issues" - ahem it is THE issue..



"TRNC" doesn't "consider" anything... it doesn't "figure"... Mr Talat represents TCs, but Turkey is the power.. If there is no "settlement" Turkey will STILL have big payouts / recompense claims - and they must be dealt with according to ECHR protocols -so property issue will not go away.. Turkey WANTS a deal..



Actually, it was "TRNC" that first talks about land being leasehold - the idea was quietly dropped - but NOT forgotten ;)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 21:57

Dear Vince Hugo.. re msg 6



What do you mean, please ? - the statement itself ( in relation to Annan) or that it was "obviously aimed at non Cypriots"...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/02/2009 23:20

Dear Hippo, re msg 9



I'm SURE you don't sail into unchrtered waters without an accurate chart, any more than you would buy a place in CY without knowing the "risks" ... if you were Waz you would have conducted a "risk assessment" based on some "interesting" criteria and decided all will be ok..



I'll just remind you that if it was thought OK, to exclude Cypriots of Greek ethnicity to settle in the "TC sector" post Annan, then non _Cypriots could be "fair game".. ;)

vincehugo


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
20/02/2009 02:19

Mark Re Msg 15



Could we start with the statement itself (in relation to Annan).

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
20/02/2009 17:45

hippo: "Read what i said i bought from a TC !!!!"



Correct - you bought GC property from a TC. It's like pass the parcel. It's the one holding the property when the music stops who has to face the music.



You could try tracing the person who sold you a pup and taking him to the civil court - but your chances are virtually nil, based on the fact that you did a Bad Thing in an unrecognised territory - and in the face of warnings from your own government.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 09:10

Dear Vince Hugo re msg 17



You asked me to explain the basis of this statement:



"Finally, folk who had bought on dispute land post 2003 had to pay out far more in compo.. THAT was obviously aimed at non Cypriots.. "



Simple- one had to have been living in that part of Cyprus for three years or more - if not you lost the right to "help" - subsidies- alternative land - if one had to move - due to territorial adjustment or if one had recently bought a house build on a dispossessed Cypriots land





Recently built properties- the owners had to pay out more in compo



In areas where Properties had to be handed back the the disposed owner the plan only allowed CYPRIOT citizens to remain in situ until suitable alternative accommodation was found.



It is clear that the plan was for Cypriots first and "latecomers" had less rights.



I don't see any future plan being any different.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 09:28

come on the tc's will always look after number one.

they don't give a damn about anyone else.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 11:44

a question for mark mmmmmm:



who is paying you to type these dozens and dozens of hostile postings?



andre

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 12:22

Dear Andre re msg 21



Why do you keep asking the same Q ( just phrased sl. differently ?)



No-one pays me..



May I ask how my "hostile" offerings differ from the UN perspective or that of the ECHR ?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 12:32

your postings are written from the goodness of your heart?



a burning will to help humanity, a righter of wrongs, a do-gooder



please forgive me I am not neccessarily accusing you of attacking windmills,



only trying to work out what really motivates you



andre

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:41

number of posts and 'slanted content' proves not an amateur, accept the agenda and consider in that context.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 17:22

mmmmmmmm et al

Mark et al

The Anan plan of 2004, political eternity ago was rejected by the ROC.

Whilst it may be the case that small parts of the plan may be resurected as part proposal in current talks. Debate upon a rejected (in all four of its versions) plan of four years ago is not of much benefit whilst new and current plans are under discussion.



I do not see how Mark is placed to predict that future plans will be any different, unless of course one of the Courts have indicated thus.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 17:53

Msgs 23/24,



So anyone who tells things as they are - as the UN, ECJ, ECHR and the UK government tell us things are - must be some kind of paid agent! That means about four of us on here must have a lucrative little sideline. I mean, how can any principled and honest people exist in this place? Yes, we all have the morals of an alley cat, don't we?



Take note - I for one will be laughing my ruddy head off when one or two individuals find themselves homeless and/or facing a HUGE compensation bill. For these people, their worst nightmares may teach them a valuable lesson about unacceptable behaviour in civilised society.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 18:31

Macha,msg 8,Human rights refer to humans! They do not differentiate between people from the UK, Cyprus,or Romania for that matter! Just because people may be from the UK or anywhere else other than the island,does NOT mean that their rights are compromised in any way compared to the "indigenous populus".In fact,if anything the ECJ and ECHR usually tends to preside in favour of minorities....that would include Brits etc!

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 18:40

Macha,



Prey, Why should you laugh your head off over others misfortune?



Do I assume you are laughing at this very moment over the misfortune of disposessed Cypriots.



You clearly take a vindictive and revengefull stance against people who may well be your neighbours. I hope that your identity remains safe from the people and citizens that you work so hard to allienate.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 18:44

mmm

"Finally, folk who had bought on dispute land post 2003 had to pay out far more in compo.. THAT was obviously aimed at non Cypriots.. "



It was aimed at ALL people who bought post 2003





"n areas where Properties had to be handed back the the disposed owner the plan only allowed CYPRIOT citizens to remain in situ until suitable alternative accommodation was found."



They still had to move,like everyone else.



Sorry, but can you quote where it said in the Annan Plan that in the disputed areas or properties ,TC's could remain but all others of a different ethniticity would have to leave.

Besides, the Annan Plan was voted on BEFORE Cyprus joined the EU,and EU directives on discrimination etc ,would not have applied.



The Orams ruling was not based on them being Brits but rather on them being EU citizens as will be all Cypriots,and with that case the ROC has shouted to the world how much it likes EU law and how everyone has to obey.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 18:47

Macha,msg 18.....it that the same government that released loads of terrorist murderers in N.Ireland,brought the finances of the country to the doorstep of bankruptcy,and led us into a war in Iraq to discover...............no WMD.Good advice they give ......dont they?

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 18:50

Well said and very well put,Girne 29

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 18:51

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Juliet and Macha go away and drip your poison elsewhere, you are all up for bore of the year.





mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm you take the gold



the other two can fight it out

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 19:30

You are quite right Waz msg28 , If I had spouted so much hatred and bile about the very people I call neighbours I would be very worried about my and my families saftey and the ex police house in Kyrenia might get a bit of attention too !

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 19:34

Message 32,

Thats rich coming from you..................

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 19:35

oops Macha think you may have scored an own goal there ....great eh

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 19:41

Blackpool fan ..your name sums you up

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 19:45

dc4,

Get back under your stone...........

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 20:09

my stone has 4 bedrooms and a pool, how about yours rofl

redtom


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 116

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 20:14

Macha Juliet alias pikey suzanne Eric Seans if you lived in the north you would have been linched by now so please go away .why dont you both go and drown your sorrows ! In a lake preferably.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 20:39

Clarets msg 27,



Someone who is prevented from accessing their property due to the illegal presence of a foreign army, has suffered a serious breach of human rights.



However, someone who is ocuppying said property without permission from the owner - and who is then evicted or bankrupted following legal action - has clearly not suffered any breach of their human rights.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 20:43

WAZ: "Prey, Why should you laugh your head off over others misfortune?"



Because if I thought they were getting what they deserved for being unpleasant people it would give me great satisfaction.



"Do I assume you are laughing at this very moment over the misfortune of disposessed Cypriots."



No. Because I feel sorry for all innocent displaced Cypriots and wish them well. Their problems are not helped by foreign squatters on top of everything else.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 20:47

clarets:



"it that the same government that released loads of terrorist murderers in N.Ireland,brought the finances of the country to the doorstep of bankruptcy,and led us into a war in Iraq to discover...............no WMD.Good advice they give ......dont they?"



They had to get the ex-terrorists involved to bring real peace and a future for N Ireland. MM is the man to debate this with although my missus is from there too.



Re bankrupty and Iraq WMDs, I couldn't agree more with you.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 20:51

Perhaps ALL property sales and purchases in the North should have been deemed illegal until the island had been reunified as the govenment is supposed to be non recognised including pre 74 ?

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 21:11

Macha please do not ask anyone to post to mmmmmm., this forum is suffering enough ...please note I asked nicely

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 22:04

mmmmmm msg 22



hmmmmmmm.....



I believe nobody pays you but do you have a "friend" who is greek cypriot



like your "friend" you told us about who sorted out his credit problem above



like my "friend" who went to his doctor about a very embaressing illness?



andre