Return it to the rightful owner!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:14

Your Daughter is engaged to be married. After a year long engagement they break it off due to the Boyfriend being offered a superb job in a country the other side of the world. The Girlfriend does not want to go to this country and live, even for a week.



Question; Should she return the engagement ring to him?

eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:22

Is there any point ? What would he do with it ?

denizkisi


Joined: 18/09/2008
Posts: 196

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:24

I think that I would say, yes, return the ring. After all he is not dumping her for pastures new, he is offering her a wonderful opportunity and an adventure!!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:24

He may meet someone else in the future and want to get engaged again!

SaraP


Joined: 30/04/2008
Posts: 295

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:34

He may want her to keep the ring?

smithy


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 5301

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:39

I would say its up to the girl, even if her boyfriend met someone new she wouldn't want his ex fiance ring,

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:41

what a crap post!!

eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:41

If it was gold, sell it for scrap !!

come_on_aylin


Joined: 14/06/2008
Posts: 908

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:43

If she breaks off the engagement she should offer to return the ring, if he breaks off the engagement then she may keep the ring if she wants.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:44

The ring cost £25,000.

SaraP


Joined: 30/04/2008
Posts: 295

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:44

Or melt it down and make a gold nuggett!

SaraP


Joined: 30/04/2008
Posts: 295

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:46

Oops don't melt it...keep it girl!

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:49

If she is breaking off the engagement then she should offer him the ring back whilst keeping her fingers crossed behind her back that he tells her to keep it!!

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:52

Under the law ...yes... the ring must be returned if the engagement for whatever reason is broken off and assuming the boyfriend asks for it back :-(



Any other "gift" would not carry such weight, in cold terms the engagement ring is a commitment to a contract to marriage albeit in the future... if that contract is broken then the commitment no longer stands and the token, in this case the ring, must be returned. That is the law.



This is ofcourse why wise men like Lord Justice Denning called the law an ass.

As in the example above it deals with the hard cold reality and so often there is no room for the spirit of the law or more importantly ... justice.



For example, say No1Ds daughter is engaged with said ring and her boyfriend is killed abroad before an intended marriage. The parents of the lad ask for the ring back because it was his grandmothers and they have another son and they dearly want the ring kept in the family for when he marries?



Regards Joseph

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:54

The boyfriend borrowed the money from his Father to buy the ring.

Kitty Kat Jac


Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 230

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 15:55

Would he not consider staying where they are? you are making out as if she is breaking it off, just because she wont move, maybe she has a career where she is or has ties she doesnt want to break. If however he can afford a £25,000 engagement ring and he is moving to N Cyprus, you know where I am lol.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:02

cont...



So here you have an example of a marriage broken off by circumstances beyond anyones control. Both parties intended carrying out their commitment.

But the girl has a ring that has been in her boyfriends family for generations.

Would she accept that the parents want the ring for the above reason, for when the second son marries ,or would she want to keep it as a token of love she had for the man she loved?



Unfortunately we are not all as wise as Solomon, so the law steps in and can only "blindly" look at the facts. Did the marriage take place... no

Then the ring if asked for must be returned.

Tough I know... but that is the law.



Joseph

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:05

What if the boyfriend has not asked for the ring back, however the girlfriend knows that the boys father, from whom he borrowed the money to buy the ring, is seriously ill.

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:11

i go out shopping and this is the quality of the posts being put up......



Give me 5 minutes to get a cup of tea brewed and i'll be back...





Nick

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:14

Come on Nick. You must have an opinion. Surely you don't have to ask Mongers missus every time you want to say something !!

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:20

All these varying conundrums matter not.The law is specific.



Did the marriage go through, if not, for whatever reason, the ring must be returned if asked for... or its value if both parties agree.



End of discussion



Regards Joseph

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:22

no she should not she should wait for him to return.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:22

Therefore if it's not asked for it does'nt have to be returned, yes?

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:26

re msge 23



Correct



Joseph

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:28

Morally though, should she give it back knowing that the boyfriend borrowed money off his father to purchase the ring and who is now seriously ill?

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:33

cont...



But would your daughter want to keep a ring that reminds her of a romance / engagement that is over?



I am presuming she is not mercenary minded and only considering the value?

Again I am not sure how long the boyfriend has before asking for the ring but there is a set amount of time in which he would need to ask for it's return.

Might be 1-3



Joseph

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:38

Joseph. It's not my Daughter. It's a friends Daughter. The boys Father is very ill. His Private Medical Insurance has expired. He will need medical treatment soon and cannot wait for the NHS to provide him with this. My friends daughter's dilemma is that she wants to give the ring back in order that the boyfriend could sell it and give the money back to his father, however she feels that if she gives the ring back the split will be final.

She is hopeful of a reconciliation.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:41

Nick re



"i go out shopping and this is the quality of the posts being put up......"



Either No1D is just bored or placing a genuine tag for discussion or there is a brilliant mind at work here, which is it?



Think it through?

For boyfriend and girlfriend put Cyprus north and south ... for ring put land...

and before you know it questiions will arise about the law and which law...

about the spirit of the law and justice being served or not served...

about time scales involved,interested parties, firsthand to thirdhand etc etc etc

Is the man brilliant or what



Regards Joseph

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:45

No1d..



Gold ring or curtain ring... what does it matter



I would say giving the ring back in this instance... the reasons you say above.. says more about her love for her fiancee than any ownership of a ring ever can... if he does not see this he is not worthy of such magnitude/love.



Regards Joseph

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/02/2009 16:46

joseph....great minds eh?

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
22/02/2009 01:38

I think your'e wrong.........there are some serious mind-altering substances going on around this post!

stewy


Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 279

Message Posted:
22/02/2009 01:47

Who cares?

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
22/02/2009 01:59

When we got engaged, I gave my wife a ring....,

she said I should have done it in person