Smacking Children

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 17:58

Is it wrong that parents can deliberately inflict pain to the extent that if inflicted on an adult it would justify prosecution?



In a number of countries, including the UK, children are the most vulnerable members of society, yet the only group which can be legally assaulted.



Should there be an outright ban on the smacking or spanking of children?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:00

yes , there are other ways to punish ?

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:03

Hitting a child is assault in my book, teaches the child that violence equals control and only shows the parent has lost control. Plenty of grey areas, though.

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:06

the UK has gone down the pan since they stopped corporal punishment in the mid 70's - at least the kids then knew the diference between right and wrong.

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:16

NN, no, they knew fear, not right from wrong.

There are many ways to * punish* a child without resorting to violence.

I worked with children who could present extreme challenging behaviour, in the old days these youngster would have been restrained on the floor by four or five men, that equates to around fifty stone of men holding down a child, do you think that child would learn a lesson from that, there is no excuse for the use of violence against a child.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:16

I think we're sliding in the direction of Top Tips like:



Daily Mail editors: Tell your readers that asylum seekers are the natural predators of paedophiles.

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:20

Meaning what Macha, just for once could there be a debate without your sarcastic remarks that add nothing to that debate.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:33

Don't worry, Hattie. It was aimed at a previous post but you got your post in-between. Would you consider youself a person with a good sense of humour, BTW, or are you a Daily Mail reader?

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:45

I dont believe in hitting children but a smack when being very naughty is not a bad thing, or when they are sticking their fingers in plugs etc...because parental rights have been removed we now have the kids ruling the parents and that is why the UK is in the state it's in!

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:48

I say give them a good beating.

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:48

You should never smack your children. You could injure your hand, always beat them with a stick instead.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:49

HA HA HA you naughty boy

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:50

I agree with dee. It's not a bad thing to smack your children, especilly if they are in danger of hurting themselves, as a warning.

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:53

There is a great deal of difference (in my opinion) between giving a child a light smack on the backside or legs and beating a child or whacking a child around the head for instance. I agree with Dee - when your child starts toddling around and touching everything, some of which may be dangerous, sometimes a light smack is the only thing that will teach them not to do it again. After all, how do you "reason" with, say, a 15 month old?

flowerfairy


Joined: 17/09/2008
Posts: 1277

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:53

I totally agree with you Dee, I had a few spanks from my mum when I was small, it did me no harm.

I gave my daughter three chances, then after that, she had a smack.

I NEVER hurt her phsycally, maybe her pride. But she's grown into a lovely girl, who shows respect to her elders, and is very polite.



I have friends in UK who are teachers, you wouldn't believe the stories I have

heard about some of the children, and believe me, it isn't good.



They should bring back 'call up' it would not only instill discipline, and keep

a lot of 'kids' off the dole.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:57

I had a couple of whacks when I was growing up and it never did me any harm, same with my son and he is one of the nicest men I know ...he is also a wonderful father.

MaggieAndBernie



Joined: 26/07/2008
Posts: 2012

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:57

Deecyprus msg 9 I agree! there's a big difference between a smack and being beaten. I had 4 children (all grown up now). When they were very small i.e. toddlers up to about 4 or 5 they got the occasional smack - to stop them touching hot things, fingers in plugs etc - better a little smack on the hand than a trip to casualty with a burn/cut whatever! As they grew older I hardly ever needed to smack them as they knew right from wrong - also they respected adults and would never dare be rude or answer back.

All this new fangled 'smacking is wrong brigade' seems to be producing a generation of rude, badly behaved, spoilt brats who think they can do what they like & have what they like. As you say, no wonder the UK is in the state that it's in!

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 19:10

My son also got the occasional smack when he was growing up. At the time, he thought I was the most cruel mum in the world; ironically, he now says, at the age of 28, that if and when he ever has children, he'd be a lot stricter than I was! I admit I was a stickler for politeness and good manners and it's certainly paid off. From when he was a toddler, we could take him anywhere without the risk of his behaviour showing us up. When I see the way some kids behave nowadays, it makes me cringe! Mind you, when I see the way some adults behave towards their children, it makes me cringe even more!!!



J

Dusterbruce


Joined: 03/08/2007
Posts: 1125

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 19:11

Good smack from my Mum or Dad never did me any harm, and far from being fearful of them I loved them both to death!

At school the teachers who handed out the slipper or a ruler across the knuckles were the ones with the highest performing, and most disciplined pupils.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 19:12

i don't agree with punishment in schools as i don't think anyone has the rights to punish someone elses kids.

tapping a toddler on the hand is not smacking as such, i found when kids are being a problem they are usually attention seeking and time out is a better method.

when they got older and bigger than me i just use to yell a lot, when mum has lost the plot then they were sorry.

teenagers who would have them? thank god they grew up!

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 19:15

Dusterbruce - if I went home and said I'd got a smack or rap across the knuckes from a teacher, I'd get a wallop from my mum for being naughty in school!

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 19:31

Wicks you are right.



Years ago i got a slap around the head from the village bobby, i was a bit cheeky to him. When i got home and told my parents i got another slap for getting slapped by the police.



Nowadays in political correctness if the bobby slaps a kid then the parent goes up to the police station, complains. The bobby gets suspended pending an investigation and may perhaps loose his job. What lesson is that for the kid.





There is of course a huge difference between hitting a child and beating them up.



With my kids we never hit them, not in public anyway. A flick in the ear was enough in public as it was quite discreet. After a few of these as soon as they became cheeky or mis-behaved all you had to do was gesture what they were gonna get and they stopped what they were doing.



How do you tell a kid to go sit on the naughty step whilst in the middle of Tempo? lol

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 19:47

what ever i had done as a kid my parents would have gone crazy if anyone had done anything to me, like smack or cane me,be it the local bobby or a teacher.

i guess we must have had quite a good relationship but it didn't seem like it at the time, you never think that when your a kid.

my dad use to tell some tales about our nextdoor neighbour who was the local bobby at one time.

how years ago he use to take his suspect around the back of the wimpy bar in loughton high st and give them a beating, rather than do the paperwork.

this happened to my dads mate and neither of them ever forgot it, or forgave the guy.

clayton


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 1143

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 20:35

if the police smack the kids.

the kids shoot the police

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 20:52

dusterbruce: "At school the teachers who handed out the slipper or a ruler across the knuckles were the ones with the highest performing, and most disciplined pupils."



That's interesting. When I was at school in the 1980s it was the worst teachers who used corporal punishment. The best teachers could control their classes and didn't need to resort to violence, so we respected them.



And the same applies to parenting, IMO.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 21:06

Just to clarify as child care is a VV sensitive subject - as said in this thread there is a big difference between a light tap and a totally inappropriate physical blow or slap.



Also, psychological abuse can be just as bad - parents effing and blinding and screaming at their poor trembling toddlers for some minor misdemeanor. That can scar them for life.

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 21:09

I accept that there is a difference between a tap on the hand or bottom and beating your child, but then if the child taps a friend or sibling they are told not to do it again as it,s naughty.

It's not often I agree with Macha but on this subject I do, there are other ways and I don't mean the naughty step.

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 21:27

Macha - re: your second paragraph. See my message No. 18. I think that emotional abuse can be far more damaging sometimes. I hear the way some parents speak to or shout at their children and it dismays me. Sometimes I feel that poor kids like this do not stand a chance in life. A small "for instance". I work in an area which, in a lot of ways, is considered "undesirable". I overheard a young mum talking to her friends about her child who had just started school. She was very proud of the fact that he had stopped swearing. The kiddie was no more than 5. On the same day, I heard another young mum telling her son to "get in the pushchair, you little "fu..er". I give up!

J

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 22:48

In 30/40 years we have now become a much more violent society!



In my day punishment was the belt at school, a thrashing at home and cuff round the earhole from the police if you misbehaved.



Look at the mess now by the "i have my rights brigade" i hope you all get mugged by some thug when your older while collecting your pension then try standing up for "the little darlings"

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 23:02

Wicks,



Seeing the kind of behaviour of adults to children you describe is very hard to take. It's only really when you have kids yourself that it effects you more, isn't it? Knowing what the poor children have to put up with in public, what they're going to go home to and what the future holds for them is depressing.



And there's whole underclass sub-culture out there that the likes of the Daily Mail never writes about. That's what gives the lie to the "thrash 'em and lock 'em up" brigade, who lack the knowledge and empathy to realise that all children are born innocent and good, and only intervention and anti-poverty measures will break the cycle of deprivation and social exclusion that leads them on to to drugs, alcohol, crime and the downward spiral.

Harlequin


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 23:39

deecyprus seems to me to be living proof that smacking doesn't work.

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 23:58

hi, I smacked both my Daughters,JUST ONCE,each..when small.never ever needed to do it again thank god,I didnot want,to or either like the idea,.

and never needed to do for a second time ever,so i guess it worked,both turned out to be girls that i am very proud of,,no deep rooted problems came from having it dished out to them.









spider.

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 00:13

No need to draw the line at smacking, that's for girls.



A good shooting never did anyone any harm in my book.



Teaches a bit of discipline.



They won't be doing that again, I can assure you.



Lem

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 08:03

Harlequin, grow up and try to post something intelligent, not easy for you I guess, but go on have a try, you may even surprise yourself...

flowerfairy


Joined: 17/09/2008
Posts: 1277

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 08:52

In the past, I've seen parents walk by my shop threatening that if they don't behave, they will not get sweets....On and on it goes......

Half an hour later.......children walk by with the sweets, and still being naughty.

If that you make a threat, i'e, no sweets, grounding, etc., it should be carried out.

I also think that swearing at a child (or anyone)shows the lack on communication skills.



I can imagine that most of the parenting skills education is written/given by

people who have never brought up children

Harlequin


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 08:52

dee



As pointed out earlier inflicting violence on children only teaches them to react to things with agression. Your response was entirely predictable. Indeed the point of the post was to demonstrate the fact and you obliged nicely. Thanks!

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 09:44

I repeat grow up and post something worth reading, again not easy but give it a try..I doubt you will be successful but remember the motto...if at first...

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 10:15

Children are like wives they respond to a regular thrashing.

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 11:48

Hippo---is your wife up for this ? if your unable to reply, i will take it your all tied up recieving a good spanking because the missus saw your comment you naughty boy !

Dusterbruce


Joined: 03/08/2007
Posts: 1125

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 12:11

Macha



I went to school in the 1950s/1960s and was brought up by working class parents who had suffered the deprivations of (and fought in) 6 years of war. We had respect for authority/teachers/parents/police.



I dont think the following generations were taught to have the same sort of respect.



The best years of my life were being a teenager in the 1960's when attitudes were changing, but I think those changing attitudes bred generations of parents who did not always know how to give their offspring the same values that my generation had.



Looking at standards today I consider myself fortunate that I never had children.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 14:27

Duster,



My folks were also WW2 generation and I agree about today's lack of respect. I'm quite interested in sociology and would be keen to explore where it slipped in or whether it's as bad as it appears. I see it all the time when I'm arresting drunks and thugs at the weekend, but most of them just hate police and have been brought up that way. When I was uni lecturing I loaned a student a pen and when I asked for it back (two days later) he said: "But it's only a pen." I just told him he wouldn't make many friends in life if he pinches their stuff. In cases like that, maybe it's a combination of lack of respect and self-respect.



Being a teenager in the 1960s sounds similar to being a teen in the 1980s. Plenty of people putting it about and hedonism, but in the shadows we had a burgeoning heroin and AIDS epidemic and Thatcher's Britain, which in many ways led us to what we have today. Still, wouldn't mind teleporting myself back to the 80s just for a long weekend!

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 14:38

macha

i think you have a point about kids being brought up to hate the police.

even though my dad told stories of the police neighbour who was a bad policeman we were always told to respect policemen.

as a teenager i can always remember the local bad policeman who would nick you for anything he could, i'm sure for the hell of it. his name was pc kent.

he nicked me at 7am in the morning for having a small dent in my car, which someone crashed into. which wasn't dangerous but he said it was!

dad said plead guilty even though it was a bit over the top, when i read his statement of what i was of supposed to have said it was a pack of lies.

needless to say i paid my fine.

i learnt to stay well out of his way after that.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 15:13

fire starter,



A few similarities for me there. I was wrongfully arrested in the 1990s when doing inquiries as a news reporter (they decided knocking on a stranger's door was a breach of the peace). The charges were dropped within 36 hours and I got an apology, but because I was a serving special constable I was suspended until an inquiry was carried out. After that I was re-instated but was so disillusioned by the whole experience I resigned and joined another force. Unlike your case, mine didn't even go to court because the prosecution service threw the police report out after reading it. That's the subject Wynyardman tries to smear me with when he's troublemaking from time to time, although I see his offending posts have been removed.



So I'm left in the position of telling my wee boy and girl to look for a policemen if they are loost or need help, even though as a serving officer I no longer have the faith and enthusiasm in the service as a whole that I once had, which is sad.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 20:25

It's all about respect. Kids nowadays don't have any respect for authority. They dont even respect their parents