Do you really think there will be a solution to the Cyprus Problem?

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 20:23

Do you really think there will be a solution to the Cyprus Problem?

Or, an even better question, do you think tthe Cyprus problem exists? Is there really a major problem, or just the property issue?



I have my views, but interested in others views.....primarily the expats in N. CYP

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 21:07

canyavus,



'Is there a major problem, or just a property issue'.



IMHO substitute 'property issue' for money and you have 90% of the problem!



There will be a solution once that is recognised. My view thats all!



wyn

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 21:28

in a word , no

berkeh2001


Joined: 28/02/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 21:40

not if pigs can fly too much has happened this is how it will be a split island i am sorry to say

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 22:25

dont be sorry berkeh ,might be better than being bullied by gcs whose motherland dont even want them ??

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 22:30

never happen, sadly

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 23:03

never happen , the island will end up divided as it is now and recognition will start to follow later. these talks are simply a watershead "history will say at least they talked and tried"

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 23:19

Just waiting for some plonker to say: "The Cyprus Problem was solved in 1974."

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 23:33

Macha msg 8



"Just waiting for some plonker to say: "The Cyprus Problem was solved in 1974."



Or that it started in 74.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 23:36

Macha,

I think that the problem saw a significant decline in 1974.

Peace has prevailed. It is only political and nationalistic greed that has replaced the historical violence, murder and anarchy.

I for one think that the problem continues to diminish and fade into history.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 03:39

Macha



you will find that people with GC owner land will subscribe to the theory that it was solved in 1974

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 04:26

"you will find that people with GC owner land will subscribe to the theory that it was solved in 1974 "



Well I own a property on disputed land and I do not and never have subscribed to the theory that the problem was solved in 74. You can of course find many GC and thier supporters who subcribe to the theory that the Cyprus problem started in 74 and is merely an issue of Turkish action in 74 and what followed from that.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
07/03/2009 13:36

the problems in cyprus started long before 1974.

for the sake of both sides i hope they can forgive and move forward to a solution.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 11:04

I think some of the earlier postings on this thread

seem still to be groping for a proposal that would satify everyone

but if you look carefully at statements made by the two sides

this is clearly would never be the case



it is unrealistic to expect cyprus-nicosia to give up its claims



perhaps this is because their refugees were oblidged to leave pell mell

but can now drive back in one hour, tantalisingly close but so far away



perhaps it's the dead hand of the intransigent greek orthodox church



maybe they think they do have a good chance of getting back the north

"one day" perhaps via the blockade, a crisis in turkey, or even court actions



I don't believe property and money are different versions of the same thing:

in the widening gulf between cyprus-nicosia and cyprus lefkosa

these words have local meanings:

"property" = their homes and safety, sought after by all cypriot refugees

"money" = only a promissory note, it depends on there being no new conflict

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 14:24

Would you (British expats) want to live in a united Cyprus?

Those British expats with greek title lands in the north, what would you do if you heard you had to pay compensation to the previous GC owner? (Not that this would ever happen)

twaddle


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 14:31

I personally would be willing to pay a reasonable amount of compensation. To be able to feel that the whole issue is finally sorted would be very settling.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 14:32

I am going with a two state solution with the north gaining recognition,

Paul.

Quarmby


Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 975

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 14:36

I would point the GC landowner to the TC who I gave money to buy the land he was given by the TRNC government.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 14:38

Quarmby,



The courts would have little time for that. He's taken the money and run, leaving you in occupation.

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 14:41

What about holding the TRNC Gov accountable for allowing the sales to go ahead?



For it was them that gave the green light for property sales to go through.



Repro

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 14:50

twaddle,



many would agree with you



it would be nice to feel you could satisfy those with a gripe against you,

in the context of any reasonable, fair and agreed compromise

to end the partition of the island, if that is what cypriots decide to do

but if they ever agree to such a scheme, I'll be surprised to say the least:



indeed I faithfully promise to eat my hat, says bertie basset



andre

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 15:01

msg 20



the trnc goverment is unrecgonised outside of turkey, so the expats would have to dip into there own pockets for compo.. as Macha said the tcs or turks that sold the land are long gone...

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 15:42

Juliet,



Any talks will invlove the TRNC gov...Regardless if they are 'recogonised' or not.



Repro

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 15:47

juliet,



your remarks in msg 22 are tellingly accurate including your wise choice of

"would have to" rather than the common grammatical error of "will have to"



andre

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 18:50

andre



thanks mr teacher!!! do you speak 3 languages? gets a bit confusing at times....

ataturk


Joined: 09/09/2008
Posts: 712

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 21:30

No one ever talks about the land the turks lost and how the greeks have built on it. All talks and negotiations always talk about what the greeks will get back. Not so long ago the bbc reported one of the greek ministers who was selling turkish land but was changing it to greek title deeds. I think we are no nearer a solution than we were in the 60s and 70s.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 22:44

http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=37853



Looks like he will be resigning then,

Paul.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 23:20

repro: "What about holding the TRNC Gov accountable for allowing the sales to go ahead?"



How are you going to do that? You're talking about messing with the Turkish deep state, which might make future visits to the north difficult and/or uncomfortable.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 23:26

ataturk: "No one ever talks about the land the turks lost and how the greeks have built on it."



Well, people do sometimes raise this point on the forum - but are usually forced into humiliating defeat when it's pointed out to them that apart from exceptional cases all the property is still there. And it still belongs to the Turkish Cypriots, unlike their unfortunate GC compatriots who likely as not have found some Turkish or British settler has moved uninvited into their seized properties.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 23:28

Paul: " http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=37853

Looks like he will be resigning then."



Outstanding - my fridge is playing up again.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
08/03/2009 23:38

re msg 25



juliet,



there is a world of difference between

expats "would" have to dip into their pockets, and "will" have to



perhaps this is not really what you meant to say and I'm being predantic



if an expat "would" it means that only in such a case this will "happen"

and judging by the wallowing talks they won't such compensation ever



if an expat "will" then as you and the other of the three musketeers

always like to suggest there will be a penalty at some point in the future



I doubt it, but in theory owners of post-1974 titles may be sued for loss of use:

such an outcome has not been established in any british court at this time, while prices have already been adjusted to compensate for the bad publicity



perhaps this is what you really "meant" to say?



without wishing to appear brusque,

I say your people will not recover one square centimeter of cyprus thus



I don't wish to preach, but compromise is better: what are they waiting for?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 00:22

Macha msg 29



"apart from exceptional cases all the property is still there. And it still belongs to the Turkish Cypriots, unlike their unfortunate GC compatriots who likely as not have found some Turkish or British settler has moved uninvited into their seized properties."



Indeed this is the propaganda but the reality is in fact markedly different as even many GC, expert in these areas, admit in public.



http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=16240&archive=1



"The whisper in legal circles is that the guardianship law contains more holes than a bloc of Swiss cheese, while any scrutiny of its implementation will open up a can of worms and a host of claims for damages."



"Markides goes on to explain that the 1991 law on the Guardian of Turkish Cypriot properties is inadequate."



cont

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 00:25

"Former government spokesman Michalis Papapetrou advises to stay well away from the courts.



“I think that the worst way to deal with this is through court decisions. This whole structure regarding Guardianship will collapse, if not in our courts here then at the ECHR."



"There is a different policy today. The approach today is the Turks got our land, we will get theirs."



"When the Cyprus government took Turkish Cypriot properties, they thought they owned the land because the Turks had taken Greek Cypriot land in the north through the invasion."



"The property has been used by all parties for political favours. Turkish Cypriot property was the secret banquet of politicians and the Cyprus government was treating these properties as their own."



These then are the views of GREEK CYPRIOTS, experts as well, and paint a VERY different picture to the one you try and create Macha. They recognise the very real and fundamental issues with treatment of TC in South



cont

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 00:33

Land on both sides of Cyprus is of course 'still there' but much pre 74 TC property has been destroyed and much of that in the period 63 onwards. You say that pre 74 TC property in the South still belongs to the TC pre 74 owner but when a TC actually tried to regain his property he had to first live in the RoC (a totaly leagal unjustifiable requirment) and then spend 10 years and much money fighting it all the way to the RoC supreme court and even then the only reason the AG did not overule this judgement was that he knew it would go to the ECHR and they would loose there and a precedent would be set. So eventualy this man did get the return of his property but then so did Loizidou via her ECHR case get hers in the North.



The REALITY as right thinking GREEK Cypriots themselves admit is that the RoC's guardianship law contains more holes than a bloc of Swiss cheese. You of course prefer the propaganda version you gave above.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 00:48

erolz,



did the loizidoulady actually get her propery returned?

I thought not as yet



andre

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 00:52

Andre msg 35



"did the loizidoulady actually get her propery returned?"



My understanding is that according to the TRNC she is the legal owner of the property and is free to use in accordance with her human rights. That she chooses not to is an issue for her and not the courts including the ECHR.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 13:54

It's not at all clear that gc's can be new residents of the trnc

no doubt one of their vast litany of arguably justifiable gripes



the legal ownership of any species may not be the whole caboodle

according to english law at any rate is it?

I think there is a concept known as possession, perhaps someone could advise



also the loss-of-use civil compensation she was set to receive from turkey

may or may not have been paid, by turkey apparently, does anyone know?

in fact it's not even sure that britain paid turkey the million quid back in 1878



without an agreed settlement to any outstanding cyprus issues,

and the surprising emergence of one now appearing unlikely in our lifetimes

I really wonder about the validity of the concept of "free choice"

in the context of a cyprus permanently partitioned into the two states:

albeit an "ugly sister" southern state and a "cinderella" northern state

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 14:06

Andre msg 37



"also the loss-of-use civil compensation she was set to receive from turkey

may or may not have been paid, by turkey apparently, does anyone know?"



According to the BBC Turkey has paid.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3257880.stm



According to wikipeidia



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loizidou_vs_Turkey



"Turkey has also evacuated her house to return it to her. Ms Loizidou has chosen not to return as long as there are Turkish occupation troops making her return unsafe. The Court accepted her reason. As a result Turkey will continue to pay compensation to her for denying her the right to enjoy her property."



However to be honest on something like this I would not take wikipedia at face value. I would need to see a ECHR document as reference for this claim. If I get time I'll try and see if I can find one on the ECHR site.



I do know of at least one GC who lives and works in the north and has residency.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 16:46

After much digging in CoE and ECHR online databases I have found the following



Cases pending for supervision of execution (that is cases ruled on where the execution of the ruling is still pending to one degree or another)



http://www.coe.int/t/e/human_rights/execution/PendingCasesExecution_January_%202007.doc



In terms of Loizidou the most current interim rulings are



for 'just satisfaction'



"The sums awarded by the Court were finally paid on 02/12/2003 and a Resolution was adopted on the same day closing the Committee’s supervision of the execution of the Court’s judgment on just satisfaction (ResDH(2003)190). "



So as far as just satisfaction goes the judgment has been executed.



for the 'merits' - which relate to protocol 1 article 1 of The European Convention on Human Rights which is



cont

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 16:49

"ARTICLE 1

Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.



The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of a State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure the payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties."



The latest interim ruling is (following a whole series of 'will consider it at x date')



"The Deputies agreed to resume consideration of these cases at their 987th meeting (13?14 February 2007) (DH)."

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 16:55

My understanding is that the ECHR proposal for how Turkey could execute the ruling re the merits of the case (article 1 protocal 1 as above) was to set up a valid means of local remedy - namely the property comission. The ECHR has not yet ruled if this in its current form is sufficent to met the exectution of the merits of the Loizidou case. This is why the case is still pending full execution.



What I can not find anywhere is anything that supports the wikipedia claim that "Ms Loizidou has chosen not to return as long as there are Turkish occupation troops making her return unsafe. The Court accepted her reason. As a result Turkey will continue to pay compensation to her for denying her the right to enjoy her property"



My understanding is that compensation is 'just satisfaction' and that this part of the ruling has been executed as per the original judgment. No where can I find anything about ongoing compensation.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 17:03

Oh and for those interested the original judgment on merits can be found here



http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/view.asp?item=2&portal=hbkm&action=html&highlight=Loizidou&sessionid=20427734&skin=hudoc-en



"Holds by eleven votes to six that there has been a breach of Article 1 of Protocol No. 1 (P1-1);"



The comments of the six dissenting judges I find interesting.

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 19:59

People have to understand that all that land and properties can not stay unoccupied for all eternity. They needed to sell it onto hotel firms, builders, farmers etc for economical growth of the nation.

Greek cypriots moan for their properties back, but how many of them will actually return back to them? NONE! They're wo faced.



and as for the right to "enjoy your properrty".....Greek cypriots didn't allow Turkish cypriots to do this during the intercommunal violence. Turkish cypriots were shoved into enclaves! They had no option but to flee to the north.....how is this giving freedom to enjoy your "property"????

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 20:20

Erolz: "I do know of at least one GC who lives and works in the north and has residency."



I know of several hundred. ;)

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 22:46

interesting detail provided by erolz, whew!



also contribution from macha "I know of several hundred" etc

I will accept his sincerity on this

although regarding the "talks" and in his previous life as private pike

he was also "90% certain there will be a settlement by june" (sic)

and no premonition of cap'n talat going down with his ship iinstead...



but his point is still valid:



should there ever be a union between the two states of the island

both communities could at least in theory live peaceably as neighbours:

may we declare a consensus on this, if only in a hypothetical sense?



I hope I do not stand condemned as damning with faint praise

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 23:07

Andre 514 msg 44



"I will accept his sincerity on this"



Macha is refering to those GC that did not move south after 74, mainly in the Karpaz region. I was talking about GC that had moved from South to North post 74. Be careful assuming sincerity from Macha esp when he uses his 'smiley'.



"should there ever be a union between the two states of the island

both communities could at least in theory live peaceably as neighbours:

may we declare a consensus on this, if only in a hypothetical sense? "



As a Cypriot I believe in a unitary Cyprus. I want a unitary Cyprus. The South of Cyprus is as much a part of my families hsitory and heritage as the North. I also believe in the potential will to goodness in the vast majorityu of normal people of all ethnic backgrounds. I believe that we can despite all the past build a new and better Cyprus for all. I do not just 'say' these things. I support my 'spouting off' with ACTION not just words



cont

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 23:16

I have been involved in numerous bi communal efforts and continue to do so, always looking for ways to build trust and respect between the communites in Cyprus where I can through deed and not just word in my oww small way.



The problem is on forums like this when there is such a consistent and persistent stream of biased, distorted, agenda based half truths being peddled by a small set of posters it is hard to do anything but try and counter and balance this with as much evidenced based and factual information and alternate perspectives as possible.



I would like to spend time trying to find consenus with the likes of Juliet and have said so before. However I simply do not know how to do this in the face of 'arguments' that seem to say what happend to you and your community is all past and history, what happend to mine can and never will be forgotten and based on such innacurate information and distorted viewpoints. Finding consensus can not be done unilateraly.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
09/03/2009 23:31

oh canyavus msg1 if only that turkish army had kept on marchin south eh ,

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
10/03/2009 16:27

finding a consensus erolz,

and with due regard to your trust-building work and long may it continue,

both sides on the issue must actually want to



I remember a supposedly anguished eu lady ending a fact-finding visit

and practically wringing her hands in torment while virtually screeching:

"but all they want to do is return and live in their own homes!"



quite so



the equal and oposite reaction (bit of politics, bit of newtonian physics)

of those families currently cherishing the same homes remained unrecorded

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/03/2009 18:12

Dear Waz



It seems that Macha's prophesy is proven



How many folk lost their lives, were maimed/ physically / mentally - by the events of July 74 - those of the rt wing GCs / Greeks and the "peace movement"..



NOT one of your finest posts :(

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
11/03/2009 20:35

erolz

There is more to a united island than "The South of Cyprus being as much a part of my families hsitory and heritage as the North".

We are told to llearn from our mistakes, but why aren;t we learning from this? Didn't we learn from the 60's and 70's that these two communities cannot live together?



Didn't we learn from mainland Greece and Turkey's wars that these two communities cannot live together?

There is a cultural barrier, including religious differences etc.

The fact that it is part of your heritage does not mean a peaceful cyprus is possible.

The public should be at best interest.....would they be at best interest if the armed forces leave?

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
11/03/2009 20:37

rowlo...

I agree!......They should have kkept on marching....all the way to Larnaca!

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
11/03/2009 21:32

msg 52



but the uk & usa only allowed them to go so far.. & are now regretting it & trying to change it....

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
11/03/2009 23:53

Dear Canyayuz re 51 / 53



"Didn't we learn from mainland Greece and Turkey's wars that these two communities cannot live together? "



.. OK, so explain Pyla/ Pile for me, or all the Greek Tourists in Istanbul... ? or the trade between TR and GR ... ?



"I agree!......They should have kkept on marching....all the way to Larnaca!"



Well, I'm sure you'll tell us your remark was meant to be "witty" but the truth is that TR did a deal with the USA, LONG before the stupid coup attempt by right wing GCs and the Greek Junta ..



If the UK had been "allowed" to stop the TR fleet .. there would have been no landings...

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
11/03/2009 23:55

Canyavuz msg 51



I undersrtand what you are saying and if the only options are the return to how things were from 63-74 or partition then I would choose partition.



However I do not believe that because we have failed to live togeather as Cypriots in the past we can not do so in the future.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
12/03/2009 12:05

i don't believe that in the event of a united cyprus things would ever return to the way they were in the past.

time has moved on, lessons have been learnt and cyprus is not just about tc's and gc's anymore.

lots of other nationalities have made the island there home.

things are totally different now, no going back.

hopefully all cypriots will work to move forward together.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
12/03/2009 12:38

msg 54:



"and if the uk had carried out it's responsibilities" suggested downer of the un

as co-guarantor of the 1960 cyprus agreement

there would have been no reason for turkey to intervene at all back in 1974:



and no partition, no bogus reunification talks, no refugees and cyprus 44 forum

a mumbo-jumbo free zone

vikingqueen



Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 241

Message Posted:
12/03/2009 18:36

Lets stay the way we are.... North and South,, SAFER!!

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
12/03/2009 18:41

I was talking to a friend this afternoon who is a tc and he said things will be resolved by the end of the year and it will be states and this side will be recognised...

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
12/03/2009 20:12

mmmmm msg 54



Pile is an example of only one place.......on thee entire island, host to nearly, or of, a million population all together.

The fact that one tiny village can live together does not mean that the entire island can, as i have said before.

These peop,e have not seen much war, which is why they are not to torn apart, and affected by it.



If you speak to the refugees now residing in Guzeelyurt, or the ones in the UK, which are the oones who actually saw and went through the war, will tell you thhat it is not possible for them to live together.

EOKA was like the IRA of Cyprus!

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
12/03/2009 20:20

mmmmm

Yes, Turkey may have planned the intervention before the Greek junta, but Turkey must have been aware of their intentions. Why would EOKA want to end the British rule in the first place? What interest would Greece have iin Cyprus?

It was clear that the aim of EOKA was to end the British rule, then eventually annex the island with Greece.......Turkey was awaree of this, and took the necesary precatuions to stop it.



And yes, the UK played a major role in this also. Nobody wanted the island to be united with Greece. The UK didn't, as it would have meant the eventual closure of it's bases, akrotiri and dhekelia, and Turkey didn't want it, as the Hellenic armed forces to it's southern borders was a threat, andd the Turkish cypriot community was at the brink of genocide.



Greece provided the reason for the Turkish intervenntion. That is all. Iff it werent for the EOKA, no tensions would have been rasied. There would have been no reason for war.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
12/03/2009 20:52

deecyprus: "I was talking to a friend this afternoon who is a tc and he said things will be resolved by the end of the year and it will be states and this side will be recognised..."



So this friend of yours must know more than Talat, Christofias and the United Nations. Is it the Holy Spirit?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
12/03/2009 23:45

deecyprus,



I talked with a friend who is a tc

he doesn't want turkey's water or army and says he'd like

to live in his old home in the south under the 1960 constitution



suspect both your guy and my chap

are indulging in a bit of wishful thinking for our benefit

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
12/03/2009 23:55

Andre 514 msg 63



He can go and live in the ROC now if he likes. After living there for 6 months he can apply for the return of his pre 74 home and will eventualy have it returned to him, though this may take a long time and require court action in the RoC.



He can only live there under the consitution as it has been (illegaly in my opinion) revised from 1963 onwards. The main revisions to the consitution are not actually changes per se but changes in national laws since 63 have totaly alter the spirit , intent and functionality of the orginal 1960 consitution.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 00:14

macha msg62 maybe its 6xm , juliet , and that other wanxer pikey ?

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 00:25

Both covenments should be paying out the compensation,for either sides loss.

once lost,its lost,,call me stupid,and i dont even Mind,but thats the only way it can be done..otherwise stale mate bothsides..

as fo the EU, no dont want it in,not at all..came here knowing the past,and how things going today,,and thats all we KNOW..What well be will be,and i will be about a few years yet..never will the troops here leave,.may be a few word between two people and WOW..could all start up again,.both sides hate eachother..if i was about 30 yrs ago i would sure still be angry..i can move on today within myself as a person...both sides can not,will not and wont..

spider.x

berkeh2001


Joined: 28/02/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 00:35

i dont think there will ever be a solution to the cyprus problem i mean just today the greek goverment has issued arrest warrants against 4 more people do you really think they can resolve a peace plan? follow the link http://www.haber.net .kk.tc/haber_detay.php?haber_id=2467

berkeh2001


Joined: 28/02/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 00:50

the link i posted might not work properly go to your google and type kuzey kibris haber and you will see http://www.haber.net .kktc/ and go in to the site it says ic haberler click on to it and scroll down and you will see 4 kisi hakkinda tutklanma emri and click on to it sorry for the long way around but i dont know how to do it shorter

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 00:57

This should be the direct link



http://www.haber.net .kk.tc/ic_haberler.php?haber=2467

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 00:59

Ok its the forum software that I think assumes that .net must be the END of the 'dot' part of a url and thus is inserting a space between the 'net' part and the .kk part. You can just copy paste and REMOVE THE SPACE and it should work.

berkeh2001


Joined: 28/02/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 01:01

thks erolz but when youclick on it comes up something different i dont kow why but i hope you can findit because i cant i have to go the long way round take care mate

berkeh2001


Joined: 28/02/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 01:04

if you have read it what do you think of it erolz are they right or wrong my knowledge of this subject is not very good but i would like to know a bit more thks

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 01:35

msg 62

Mr DRUT wrote:



So this friend of yours must know more than Talat, Christofias and the United Nations. Is it the Holy Spirit?



Mr Know all at his best!!!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 01:39

berkeh2001 msg 72



Sorry despite being a TRNC citizen I do not read or speak Turkish :(

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 17:23

Dear Canyavuz re msg 60

"Pile is an example of only one place.......on thee entire island"



ER, NO.. I used Pile/ Pyla as one example.. So, if I tell you about other mixed communities that still exist in the "rump" RoC does that mean you'll concede you were wrong ?!.. Next example Baf/ Paphos..



"If you speak to the refugees now residing in Guzeelyurt, or the ones in the UK, which are the oones who actually saw and went through the war, will tell you thhat it is not possible for them to live together.

EOKA was like the IRA of Cyprus!"



Well, Guzelyurt/ Morphou would have been in the GC sector by now -and we could have seen how the those that stayed on co-existed.. :(



Plenty of folk from vicious wars, and more recent, living cheek by jowel either within or soon to be embers of the EU.. Do you need specific examples...?



EOKA ( first lot ) - now old men who are bosum buddies with the British Soldiers they were trying to kill back then.. THEY have "moved on... so to most IRA

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 17:28

Dear Canyavuz re msg 61



You'll know, then that the USA made sure that the Turks were given the "excuse" they needed, as the CIA funded and encouraged the rt wing Military Greek coup and this is probably why the US Ambassador to CY was killed .



Cypriots were pawns in a much bigger game, and "divide and rule" suited those who wanted to keep the bases.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 18:06

rowlo msg67 at 00.14hrs: "macha msg62 maybe its 6xm , juliet , and that other wanxer pikey ?"



Nope, sorry, it isn't working. Could you take the alcohol out of the equation and have another go?

PaulB


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 57

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 18:41

re msge 76



What a load of absolute rubbish!!! Isn't it time the GC's accepted the responsibility for their actions of the past, and not persist in blaming everybody and everything for the current state of a divided Cyprus. And when it comes to the 'property' issue then maybe they should seek compensation from the government (their own) who created the situation in the first place by aiding and abetting the military coup.



If no joy there - then try compensation from the CIA - am sure they will get a very sympathetic hearing.



The simple fact is that in 1974 the GC's gambled and lost. I wonder how sympathetic they would have been to TC's property claims over the years had they won!!

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 18:46

andre 514 -



It is rare for a Turkish cypriot to wish for the Turkish armed forces not to be there.....the TC knows very well that if it weren't for them, they would have been in some enclave under strict greek military supervision.

Turkey also pays for the TC education system......if it weren't for mainland Turkey, there would be no stable education system, no stable government, hardly any investments.......

If it weren't for Turkey, those stop over flights carrying 350,000 tourists annually, wouldnt take place.......99.5% of Turkish cypriots know this, and respect this....



The person you spoke to was the odd one out

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 18:51

Hello PaulB,



I see you are well read in CY History .. NOT... Please be specific as to what part of my post was "rubbish"



NEWSFLASH... no where near a majority of GCs wanted a rt wing extremist Coup, and yours is a typical reaction of someone you really needs to go to the library and do a little research.



Their "govt" in July 74 was an elected one, and the "one" used as a pretext for "the peace movement" had no mandate.



It is precisely because of third party meddling in CY, that it is hard for many Cypriots to trust the UK / US.. THAT is why it is important THEY try to solve the matter from within... if Turkey will "allow" that...



"The simple fact is that in 1974 the GC's gambled and lost. I wonder how sympathetic they would have been to TC's property claims over the years had they won!! "



Now if you are looking for "Rubbish"..... Where to begin?

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 18:52

MMMMMMM



baf/pahos? This is not an example of Turkish cypriots wanting to live with Greeks in peace.....this is an example of a Turkish cypriot moving topop the south in seek of employment......they have no other option.



Yes, in some villages, they did get along.....a typical example is my mothers. (Now in the ROC) Greeks andd Turks were close as can be, but these are a minority.

These communities have seen war.....war splits communities and their ties apart......war doees not bring anybody together.



I appriciate your examples, and many are true, but from my point of view, it's not very realistic.



It looks like we have completely different views on this. You seem very optimistic, i must say. But in this case, i'm the opposite....



Nice to see different views though..

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 18:59

paulB - ms 78



I couldnt agree with you more. Actions have consequences....

GC's should point their fingers at mainland Greece, their government and EOKA-b, the cause of alll of this. But with all of their propaganda, everybody points the finger at the Turks.



Was anybody aware that some of the 1,600 people that the greek government claim as dead or lost, were actually killed by the EOK-B? Not all of them, obviously, but some were.





Annd yes, a majority of Greek cypriots supported the coup.

A vote suggested that 80% of the GC's voting was FOR such an annexation with mainland Greece.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 20:20

Dear Canyavuz re msg 81..



The TCs there are mainly TCs that have always been "local" to the district in living memory.. I'm glad you concede that TCs / GCs can and do live together and note you declined the offer of other communities I can mention.



I also note you don't counter my point re peoples in more recent wars who can close close by / together.. They are "true" and should therefore not be dismissed lightly.. they show your contention that these people can't live together is ... well .. nonsense..



It will take time, and there'll always be the occasional "black sheep" who wish the communities to remain polarised.





I hope like the island of Ireland Cyprus will see that it is possible to forgot 100's of years of hostilities.



re your response to Andre - I know MANY TCS who feel their govt is, and should be that of the RoC, with TC representation - and want the 1960 constitution to "work"..



They aren't as rare as you think - need examples and what they've ac

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 20:22

This should have read - do you need examples and the things they have achieved ?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 20:37

To stick to the exact tread heading.



Yes.....cash.................sad isn't it!



wyn

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 20:44

Canvayuz: "GC's should point their fingers at mainland Greece, their government and EOKA-b, the cause of alll of this. But with all of their propaganda, everybody points the finger at the Turks."



Not every GC sees things that way and many are only too aware of how irregulars and terrorists from their own community, aided and abetted by the Greek army, engineered the end of a sovereign and independent Cyprus and gave Turkey the perfect excuse to invade and partition.



But you're willing to listen to both sides and for that I'm glad.

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 20:49

Wyn -- sorry dont think its going to happen

PaulB


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 57

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 20:56

mmmmm



If no way a majority of GC's wanted a right wing coup it is a shame that they were not more proactive in preventing it at the time. But unfortunately they were not, and as a consequence must accept their fair share of responsibility for the 'status quo' that persists today.



I would make my point again - compensation for losses (land/property) lost by GC's in the north of Cyprus, as a result of an attempted military coup organised, aided and abetted by Greeks and GC's, should be made of the various bodies/institutions which at the time laid the foundation for, planned and executed the events that lead up to the Turkish Intervention in 1974.



So, was land lost by the 'cause' or the 'effect'???

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 20:56

karakum5c,



However the Cyprus problem is solved, or otherwise, let me assure you that cash will be



THE GOVERNING FACTOR. Call it Mammon if you wish.



wyn

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 21:32

wynn,



yes and who was it who said "every man has his price"?



but... um... we are not actually talking brown envelopes stuffed with euros,

handed over furtively in the ikea-nicosia car park, anyone might agree to that!



we're more likely dealing with a "promissory note" written in gobbledegook

ie a signed undertaking to pay the claimant something or other, whatever

but only after a long-winded, uncertain, contentious, recrimination-packed

application-and-valuation process...all assuming turkey does not land again



mammon?



yes, even now waiting in the wings to invest, once the new munich greement,

I mean peaceful compromise solution, is finally signed in downtown nicosia



as if

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 21:48

Mammon..........Love of money! (biblical)



That was not the reason that I found myself in this unfortunate situation, despite the

jaundiced views, of our members who share a less than honourable outlook on The Cyprus Problem.



Good faith ,honour, forgiveness, compassion, a way forward for the children and their childrens ,children, in my opinion, is the order of the day. Full compensation at 74 prices

or Exchange, and even repatriation if the land has been undeveloped Fair play.



Just my view, thats all,



Wyn

























Just my opinion, thats all,



wyn

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 22:14

I do not think the issues are just about land and money. These are the primary issues that derive from the Cyprus problem post 74 but there were and still are issues that predate the events of 74. When considering these pre 74 issues then it is clear that land and money were not the primary issues at all.



There are many GC that recognise and accept the responsibilites and culpability of their community and leaderships in creating the cyprus problem and NOT just in terms of the coup in 74 but what was going on from 63 onwards, just as there are many TC that accpet the part played by their own community and leaderships as well.



What is needed however is some level of offical recongintion of this from the respective leaderships. For me I also do expect 'more' from a internationaly recognised RoC that claims to validly represent all cypriots than I do from a leadership that claims to only represent one community alone.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 22:19

Erolz,



I do not agree with your view, but I respect your opinion. Smokescreen to hide the core issue which after 35 years is largely money. Sad, very sad, but in my opinion true!



wyn

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 22:27

In answer to the original question, unfortuntely I do not think there is a solution to the Cyprus problem. I know that's a negative response but I feel that there will be a bit of give and take on both sides as the talks progress but sadly that will be all. I fear the problem will remain for years to come. I hope I'm wrong.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 22:43

Dear Paul B re msg 88

"If no way a majority of GC's wanted a right wing coup it is a shame that they were not more proactive in preventing it at the time."



So let's "forget" that many GCs died in early July - to preserve their democratically elected leadership .. Wasn't that "proactive" enough for you? !



Cause and effect would be applicable - if it wasn't for the fact that the whole thing was orchestrated to achieve partition and keep the bases "safe"...

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 22:49

macha ,pikey ,canyavus msg1 easy solution send all the greeks back, but ???

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 23:11

Rowlo msg 96



Which "Greeks"



The Greek Army ?



Greek passport holding Pontian Russian Speakers?



Or just all Greek speakers ?



Always, interested to hear your viewpoints and hope one day we may get more than a two line reply .....

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 23:28

Mmmm, Erolz,



Sorry I have come to this post late in because I was trying to get my head around another post where you guys were discussing EU , ECHR,'s issues.

During that much earlier post someone threw in a one liner that brought a smile but nevertheless was very thought provoking and I wondered if you could shed light?



In effect he said if the Orams lose their case he would go home and put all his assets in his wifes name and keep TRNC assets in his?



Under UK law as far as I know if he were to do this ...

(presume pre judgement or post ) his UK assets would then belong totally to his spouse and per se untouchable. How do you read it, or would we be in another ten year payday for lawyers situation?



Regards Joseph

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 23:30

mmmmmm ms 83



your getting the wrong idea from me. I only agree that, in a few minor villages, these two communities can live together. It would never work on a large scale. NEVER!



Wars only split people apart....they dont bring them closer. Wars create hatred towards the other side.....always.

Typical example is Israel and Gaza.



mmmmm - you are too optismistic - - - - wars cannot be forgotten.

And the 1960 Constitution has proven not to work in the past.....why try again?

The idea doesn't make sense. Why try something that has proven not to work?



Why fly a plane that is guaranteed to crash land?

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 23:34

macha - msg 86



I may generalise her a little......but almost every Greek cypriot supports enosis.

Almost all of them want union with Greece. 80% is a very large figure.



I started this forum just to get an idea of other peoples thoughts (which is VERY interesting, i must add). I may look at things from both perspectives, but will not change my views on this.

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 23:36

and may i also state another reason for the island not being unifying;



mainland Greece and Greek cypriots are known funders of the Kurdish terrorist organization, the PKK. The organization that has lead to the killing of 40,000 in Turkey.

The organization set up to tear Turkey apart (failing severely though.)

The leader of the pkk was found with a greek cypriot passport, but this man is not even allowed to pass the border checkpoint, let alone become a citizen and get a greek cypriot passport.

Another reason for remaining anti-greek!

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 23:47

wyn,



perhaps you think I have a jaundiced outlook on the cyprus problem?

maybe because I mentioned brown envelopes, but oh that it were so simple!



you want to concede things the greek cypriot side haven't actually asked for:

what they said they want, time and again, is their previous ownership restored

and honourable man as I'm sure you are, do you feel able to offer them that?

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 23:51

canvayuz,



NO WAY do 80% of GCs want Enosis! Have I picked you up wrong? There's barely any support for union with Greece now. Where did you get this info?

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 23:55

canvayuz,



How can you be "anti-Greek"? I'm not anti any nationality. There's good guys and bad asses everywhere. And can you truly blame them for founding the PKK? Where is the evidence? And is the PKK very much different from the TMT? Or the Eoka-B, for that matter? Didn't all three have similar objectives and attempt to achieve these objectives in the same way?

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
13/03/2009 23:59

Zzzzzzzz.....Zzzzzzzzz......hic!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 00:20

Hi Andre 514,



I do not seek to debate the issue but attempt to find a solution. The issues have been debated many times over the last two years, often repeated . Constant debate does not move matters forward.(too much analysis, leads to paralysis)



We are rapidly arriving at a point where decisions must be made. I do think that there is a high chance no solution will be found (45%)Given that, I do feel that The International Community would make a collective decision to formally recognise The TRNC, and all sanctions would be removed.



Given a solution is found I think it would be bizonal with a representative joint Government.



My view is where land or property has not been ehnanced either side should have the OPPORTUNITY to repatriate. Once Land or property has been enhanced EXCHANGE or full COMPENSATION at 74 prices should be offerred. Total equality for both sides.A Property Comission would decide on a case by case basis.



I cannot for the life of me believe

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 00:21

mmmmmm.....mmmmmm......regurgitate!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 00:31

that many on either side would wish to be uprooted after 35 years, during which they have settled in their own communities, with their own schools, social circles, churches etc.



Hence the option of Exchange OR full compensation.



Whatever the demands of GCs or dispossessed TCs for that matter could be satisfactorily settled in the above manner. It is for that reason that my contention is MONEY will be the

factor that will prevail.



The younger people seem to wish to move on and live in peace so that their children and Grandchildren can have an opportunity to move forward, without the emnities of the past.



I do realise that this appears to be a somewhat simplistic answer to a very complex problem

but the way forward, when it is found will have to be on a simplistic "broad stroke" solution

My prayers are for a peaceful reunited Cyprus for The Cypriot People as members of The EC.



My views thats all,



Wyn.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 01:04

wyn,



I am not taking the michael, honestly but:



the place I have seen on my many brief visits and read much about after,

bears little resemblance to the land of lotus-eaters to which you seem to refer



the intractible issues promoted by each side appear to offer scarce room for manoever, let alone the well-thumbed but fantastical "ideal cyprus solution"



as I've said hereabove, the other side have only shown interest in recovering what they consider to be their lost northern territories

they have never asked for anything else, and you would surely think the same if you were them and had their mulish spirit



whether they will achieve their ambition as the years roll by, is a different thing



good will yes if genuine, the international community taking a collective decision of any sort -I'll have to get back to you on that



you believe you were misled over trnc exchange land:

just try telling that to the muppets at the nicosia provincial court



but life goes on

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 01:12

joseph msg 98



I think that if the ECJ does decide that (monetary award parts) of judgments made in RoC re property in the North of Cyprus can be enforced in UK courts against UK assets then there are ways that people will seek to reduce such potential liabilites and people will invetibaly do this. However it seems pretty clear to me that this action was never about the money or seeking actual redress for the plantif but was and is about using legal avenues as a political weapon. In this regard the actions serve their purpose weather any actual money is extracted from defendands or not. It in short is not about the money.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 01:20

Macha msg 103



I agree that there is today no real widespread support in the GC community for enosis.



What does remain a concern for me is that there is significant support in the GC community for the underlying 'ideology' that underpinned enosis. Namely that Cyprus is a GC island and that because GC outnumber TC they have as a single community the RIGHT to impose anything they like on the TC community with no regard for the TC communities will regardless of the degree to which their desires may affect the TC community differently to their own. That is what concerns me and is why for me the acid test of any proposed soloution re poltical equality today remains 'would such a system have allowed the GC community to impose enosis on the TC coummity or not'.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 01:25

first and foremost the greek cypriots want the turkish army out and then comes the turkish settlers ,and then they will carry on as before treating us as a minority.



money ,doesn,t even come into it ,political status that,s what it boils down to.





musin

long live the kktc

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 01:33

Dear ErolZ re msg 110





If I was the GC who can't use his property and has seen someone build a house on it I doubt I'd be drawing the same ( sorry, DAFT - and plainly - ill thought through ) response to the Orams' case and the motives behind it..



I'm guessing that he wanted to hurt the Orams' pocket and discourage other EU citizens from "buying" on land / property vacated through ethnic cleansing.



For along time he would have ben impotent against the might of the TR Army, but bit by bit the GCs have acted smarter - legally.



Think it through.. why would most normal folk want to hide their EU assets just to live in "TRNC".. It ain't worth the hassle for many...



Of course some sort of settlement would be preferable, but such cases are driving on such an outcome.



I expect the ECHR will rule on TRs's IPCs in the "north" and there will be a "conflict" between the ECJ and ECHR - if it rules to allow the IPC.



Something has to "give"...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 01:46

Dear Canyavuz re msg 99/ 100



first you said tat GCs / TCs can't live together, then you concede they do, but only in Plya/ Pile, then I mention another place ( Paphos ) and now you say it won't work on a large scale.. I say it COULD as part of the EU - esp. with TR in, too.



If your assertion re GCs and their thoughts re Enosis combined with your "I'm not changing my mind" are really true, then you are just being "ignorant" - there is no other way to describe it..



Ireland had Wars for centuries...



Of course their is still bigotry, hatred and misunderstanding .. you demonstrate that

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 01:53

MM msg 110



(please do not call me dear)



"Think it through.. why would most normal folk want to hide their EU assets just to live in "TRNC".. It ain't worth the hassle for many... "



I think the idea that 'oridnary' people faced with a potential liability would not 'bother' to reduce their exposure to said libility if doing so is possible is pretty unrealistic. Those people who already have property in the North and would be exposed by such a ruling in the ECJ will in my view look at ways to minimise or reduce such exposure.



"I'm guessing that he wanted to hurt the Orams' pocket and discourage other EU citizens from "buying" on land / property vacated through ethnic cleansing."



I suspect that for those behind the bringing of this action, a far wider group than just the plantiff, the objective of securing a few thousands euros in punishment from the Ormas is secondary to discouraging EU citizens from buying disputed property in the North. The money is NOT the issue imo.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 09:08

Hi ErolZ ( better for you than "Dear" ?! .. ;) )



re msg 110



I was referring to any FUTURE purchaser, not those who already "purchased" and have no other option..



I'm constantly asking Waz and now it seems you.... Do you have PROOF that the Plaintiff is being funded - ?



All I know is that when the action in the UK Court wasn't as simple as he'd hoped ( Justice Jack's "imperfect" interpretation of Protocol 10 ) he was "crying" in the press for govt help.



The Govt made it plain it could not help and why.. There may well be folk "helping" him, now, but I truly believe the action was started by the plaintiff and the motives were very personally aimed at the Orams'

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 13:51

mmmmm



you are looking at this cyprus problem from an unexperienced point of view.

It is NOT as basic as this. There is much more than what meets the eye, in particular the cyprus "problem".

Were you aware of the fact that AKEL, the current leading greek cypriot government, supported enosis? And parties dont tend to change their ideology much.



Your view is that they can live together, but that's not enough, even if they could (which they can't).

Think into depth.

Whats going to happpen about the armed forces? protection?

They dont want the Turkish armed forces on the island.......but 6,000 turkish cypriot soldiers is not enough to protect their community from 60,000 greek cypriot soldiers!





These turkish cypriots have no option but to live in paphos, for employment! And the number of turkish cypriots in paphos is VERY SMALL, so isn't a justified arguement......

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 13:59

and, greek cyprriots from now have begun to show their ANTI-TURKISH VIEWS.

So many tc vehicles crossing to the south have been vandalised. People beaten up.

I myself were given thee middle finger, and sworn at in english, whilst in the south.

If they can't make the effort to get along, whilst seperated........how will they do so whilst living together?

This will not work...........



are you aware of WHY the junta took place?

Greece trying to strategically put Turkey uunder threat. First the agean islands, which havee not been unarmed to this day.....and now cyprus.

And their widespread support for PKK, has proven this. these are facts, not opinions!

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 14:06

macha



The PKK leader was found with a Greek cypriot passport? Plerease explain how this works.......

He is not allowed to enter the ROC, llet alone get their passport! Whats your comeback for this?

Greek ministers in greece resigned the day abdullah ocalan was caught with the passport. Explain please.........



Why would Turkish cypriot want to live with people who fund the PKK terrorist organization? The people who want to leave tc with not government or military power....



and, if you dont know the difference between the PKK and TMT......you need start your research from scratch....



MUSIN M......I THINK WE ARE THE ONLY ONES WITH RELALISTIC VIEWS.......



i also think it's time to close this thread......too controversial

Izzet



Joined: 01/12/2006
Posts: 920

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 14:53

This thread is now closed.



Reason: enough.....

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
14/03/2009 15:00

canyavuz: "The PKK leader was found with a Greek cypriot passport? Plerease explain how this works......."



Can you supply any serious reference to this being fact?



"and, if you dont know the difference between the PKK and TMT......you need start your research from scratch...."



Of course I know the difference. I was pointing out to you the similarities. If the TCs were entitled to freedom fighters why shouldn't the Kurds be too?



"NO MORE REPLIES PLEASE..."



Is that because you know you've painted yourself into a corner?