SIR Fred Goodwin pension

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 12:17

Will he or wont he keep his pension.?

What an absolute disgrace This £700,000.00 per year pension should be stopped.I bank with Natwest obviously owned by RBS,i went into my local branch to express my feeling.I said this pension was corrupt, disgraceful,shameful.The banking staff member herself said this obscene amount of money amounted to theft.Public money will be financing this crook.OUTRAGIOUS OR WHAT?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 12:30

He does have a contract. The blame imo should go primarily to those that offered him the contract and secondarily to a society that cared very little for these kinds of obscene renumeration levels and contacts BEFORE everything went tits up. Just ignoring this contract even in the public interest is a very dangerous road to take.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 12:34

The point is, Treasury official Paul Myners knew of Sir Fred's contract and, according to Sir Fred, approved of it.



Page 109 of the 2007 RBS annual report, which appears to say that if an executive is asked to leave the bank early, his pension can't be discounted. At the end of 2007, Sir Fred's pension was set to pay him £579,000 a year. But when he was forced out last October, Sir Fred, 50 years old, was given credit for 10 years more work, increasing the payout to £693,000 a year.



The fingers should be pointing to the Government. I can't see Goodwin relenting at all.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 16:39

Couldn;t agree more re posts above



But it gets worse :-(



It was revealed today that good old Sir Fred (under pension rules) took the cash percentage allowable from his pension pot of millions that gives him the per annual pension mentioned above of £600k plus.



So, he has already had/taken £3,000,000...



But it gets worse... RBS agreed to pay the £1,800,000 due in tax...



Making his cash payment in effect £4,800,000.



One is forced to ask if these people have any sense of shame?

To be honest I think it is all a very convenient smokescreen for flash Gordon and his pals at the treasury and the billions pound mess he has presided over?



Regards Joseph

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 16:43

they have no shame joseph



and the people who agreed it when on a crest of a wave are worse,like millions of innocent people the seedy world of banking has ripped us all off .



kav

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 16:45

Myners saying he knew nothing about it, another government get out. Myners has accused RBS of creating an "elaborate ruse" to double Goodwin's pension.

Definition of "Ruse"? Fraud, deception, deceit, dodge, hoax, according to the dictionary.

If that is the case the pension was obtained using elaborate fraud which is a criminal offence.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 16:49

Meanwhile, it has emergedthat former RBS employees will have their company pension payments slashed when they get to state retirement age, and Goodwin personally rejected union pleas for leniency over the so-called "clawback" provisions.

It has also emerged that Goodwin altered the arrangements for early retirement three years ago, raising the minimum age at which employees could take it from 50 to 55*, and then only if pensions were cut by between 20% and 40%.

RBS is one of the few companies that still takes advantage of rules that allow it to claw back part of the payments from company pension schemes when members become old enough to start drawing a state pension.

The bank reduces payments by as much as 30% of the state pension for employees who were in the scheme before 2002.



Yet he has his pension at 50.

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 16:52

Tell u what guys,i have an unsecured bank loan with Natwest(RBS),if i move over to NC they wont be getting repaid.Does that make me any worse than the bankers,after all they are corrupt,aren't they?

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 17:01

Do you think if and when this whole mess is over anyone will or should face criminal charges...?



After all many ordinary people have seen their life savings and pensions disappear with very little recourse... refer ASW and the despicable treatment and excuses given by politicians in refusing help.



Why is a small bank clerk/manager who steals or gambles a few hundred k from a bank, when discovered, prosecuted and often goaled , have their stolen assets seized while those who do so in telephone numbers rarely are?



Regards Joseph

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 17:03

Kellyb ... made me laugh



But seriously... I doubt you will be given a knighthood... and I am willing to bet they will pursue and harass both you and your family til the last penny is forthcoming... or maybe not?



Regards Joseph

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 17:06

Joseph, this will drag on an ddrag on. Nothing will happen. Goodwin will keep his pension. It'll cost millions of pounds to carry out a review of where it all went wrong and by then we'll have a new government running the country and so it goes on.....



They are all a bunch of crooks and should hold their heads in shame. The FSA should also be held responsible for a lot that has happened. Where were they in all this - they are paid millions of pounds to regulate the financial services sector so why didn't they?

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 17:14

Hi No1... how's the weather, getting into the 60s yet



Re FSA, interestingly I have just had my endowment (remember those) annual quote from my provider. I have about 6 years before pay-off (about 40% shortfall) and yet they are still giving illustrations of 3,5 and 8% forecasts and have a disclaimer that such illustrations are within FSA guidelines?



You think by now someone would point out to them that there is a world wide banking implosion where such illustrations are no longer useful?



Heaven help our children and young people entering the market



Regards Joseph

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 17:21

Joseph, funny you should bring that up. I got a S/V in december 08 for an endowment that I have that matures in 2013 -S/V = £44k. I called them last week for another S/V, guess what = £34k. They are all robbers, tried to fob me off with the old chestnut 'credit crunch'.



Bill

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 17:29

I think Fred Goodwin is getting a hard deal here and is being made to look bad.



This guy is elected by the shareholders to look after their interests. His remuneration is agreed by them. Like the rest of the board of directors he took his bonuses in terms of share options which are now worth nothing. His pension fund was signed off by someone representing the government. How can he be to blame for receiving what he was contractualy allowed.



The directors of RBS are getting hung, drawn and quartered. What about HBOS? Those directors seem to be getting it easy.



The directors of RBS made one crucial mistake and that was taking over and paying over the odds for ABN AMRO. It is estimated that they would have to write off £40 billion from this takeover. The UK governments bailout was approx £20 billion. If they had not taken the decision to take over ABN AMRO then they may not have needed the bailout.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 17:33

Next time you go into the bank, just tell them "normally the robbers stand on this side of the counter!"

Washerman

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 17:33

no1 message 13



axa is where my pension plan was,i opted to go for a self invested personnel plan .



got a figure in august and they would not relaese it for 90 days .

90 days later 22k different ,rang them up and got "credit crunch is to blame" i asked them was they recording it ,and gave them a real mouthfull ,save on on your tapes to play in training classes.



kav

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 17:35

kavenkoy, I'm surprised they wouldn't release the funds for 90 days! You may have a compensation issue there.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 17:36

Lets compare that to HBOS. They were advised that they had to reduce their share in the mortgage markets some years ago. At the time they had something like a 40% market share. Industry experts were quoted at the time as saying an optimum level should be 20 something %. Irresponsible lending made them vulnerable. Do the directors get tried by press much the same way as Fred Goodwin is? The Chief Executive of HBOS Andy Hornby is collecting £75000 per month during the transition period of the amalgamation of HBOS and LLoyds TSB. Who picks up the tab for that? But very little press coverage. By the way most of this information came during the commons select committe questions.



For all those who are still in the UK and for those environmentalists and mambers of the post office must be some good news. Now there is no offers of loans coming through your door every in the form of junkmail or being attached to newspapers. Howard from the HBOS adverts is now saving trees ;-)

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 17:48

Alf for prime minister,you get my vote.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 17:55

Hi Stubs,



I do not totally disagree with your sentiments, hence my use of the word smokescreen, I made reference on an earlier post to Goodwin being a molehill

(sacrificially) and the real culprits, the mountain in my analogy, where using a lot of this to defray attention from their mess/mismanagement.



However, a little humility on his part would go a long way to deflating such criticism, rightly or wrongly, a very wealthy man is coming out of this even wealthier while many of those invested in "his" bank are ruined.



Re Hornby... agree again... and I do believe he was forced into resigning his post as a financial advisor to Brown as a result... another "sacrifice" perhaps while the untouchable one remains untouched thanks to all the spin?



I know the questions are massive but I also believe people have right to know or at least an honest explanation, before they all disappear



Regards Joseph

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 17:57

Nige, you are right it is unnaceptable. However nothing will happen mark my words.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 18:12

re:msg 20: Alf for prime minister,you get my vote



Alf you will get my vote too... IF



You agree to giving me a cabinet post

Pay me £140,000 per annum

Give £75,000 for "expenses"

Another "home" in London

Give me a big fat pension into which I pay nothing

I get to go to all the junkets

Work 20 out of 52 weeks a year

If I am found "fiddling" or dishonest you ship me off to Europe

Get a nice little earner in EU say £250,000 per annum

Loads of money then brought back when flak has died down



Oh... and two Jags



If not, I'll spill the beans on you... joking of course



Regards Joseph

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 18:19

Joseph, what about your Pension benefits?

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 19:48

he deserves every penny of it.

cyprusgaz



Joined: 25/08/2008
Posts: 79

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 20:04

Got a pic of me and Sir Fred out on the p*ss last year. Wish I could up load it. I always knew he'd be famous one day!! Told me to sell my shares in finance. What a guy.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 20:58

Alf Simer



Every company is finding hard times and those in the banking sector even more so.



Further to my previous post regards the RBS Fred Goodwin took the company and made it a global brand. For years and years most banks including RBS, HBOS, HSBC were making record profits. Shareholders well quite willing to take the profits/returns in their investments then. One of the biggest problems with a plc is that some decisions which have to be made for the good of the company are not necessarily in the interests of the shareholders. For example if the banks in 2007 had said that there would be no dividend that year in order to safeguard the working capital of the company, then the share price would have dropped. Quite a vicious circle.



Furthermore one thing which had not been published is how much of the pension fund that Fred Goodwin is getting is actually his own money in terms of what he has contributed to it over the years.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 21:08

Joseph



I have no idea how wealthy Fred Goodwin actually is. What I will add is that in line with many other banking directors he traded his bonus payment for shares which ultimately were worthless. Now I am not saying that he is skint, far from it given that he has just drawn £3million from his pension fund as reported to the commons select committee, however he was legally entitled to the money as per his contract. The contract was agreed by the board, agreed by the shareholders and ultimately signed off by a representative of the government.



There does seem to be a witchhunt towards Fred Goodwin. In my opinion the demise of RBS has been ultimately down to the over valuation of ABN AMRO. One extremely bad commercial decision. On the otherhand HBOS have made vast mistakes however their directors do not seem to be getting punished my media to anywhere near the same degree as Fred Goodwin.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 22:08

Hi Stubs ...



Again... that is why I use the word smokescreen. As I have said on this subject before, like it or not, his pension is "written in" and I would be amazed if he lost it in a court of law... the lawyers would have a field day.

But I feel he does himself no favours.



Yet this problem is a lot bigger than RBS as we now know, (know so far?... so who were those in place to "oversee" correct banking procedures and practices etc and who are sitting quiet while the "witchunt continues"

Follow the money as they say, or in this case... the lack of... and the buck stops firmly at the governments door.



Or am I wrong?



Regards Joseph

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
17/03/2009 22:24

Joseph



I think you are right about the buck stopping at the governments door.



I find it amazing that it only seems to be RBS and in particular Fred Goodwin who is getting criticised.



What is funny is that the guy who is head of the FSA, I cant remember his name, was a former employee of HBOS. He warned HBOS about the problems they could face a few years ago and shortly afterwards left the company to take his new post with the FSA. Then stood back and watched as they shot themselves in the foot.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 02:10

Hi Stubs...



Not sure re head of FSA being an ex HBOS executive, the only one I know for sure is Cosby ex chief of Hbos who went as deputy?



The guy who warned them (Paul Moore) re risks was " sacked" and replaced with a sales executive who had absolutely no experience of risk management.

Apparently the FSA investigated the Moore's claims and found them untenable...and yes you've guessed it Cosby then moved into a top job at FSA



FSA Chairman... (Lord) Adair Turner.. was also an advisory to the government on "global warming" and the notorious multi billion pound "id" card policy?



Do you get the feeling it's like a child's game of dot to dot... just a matter of trying to connect the dots... except government keep using invisible ink



Links re FSA

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/About/Who/board/index.shtml



Link re whistleblower

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7882581.stm

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/news/newswire.php/news/reuters/2009/02/15/b



Regards Joseph

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 13:08

Joseph



YOUR MSG 20 TOP POST.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 14:24

Hi Joseph



You are right. I knew there was some element of a whistleblower "sacked" however there was also the issue of someone from HBOS being recruited for a senior position within the FSA who was privvy to the information they had previously been told.



Lord Myners testimony yesterday in some respect was laughable. He stated the document containing pensions was 200 pages long and due to the severity of the banking crisis he didnt have time to read it. Secondly he was told the pension was significant but never thought to ask "how much?" before he signed it off. It could have been much worse as the pension fund might very well have been more as Lord Myner never even asked how much it was worth.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
20/03/2009 23:21

Hi Stubs/Kellyb...



Guys have you noticed what is happening in the US re some of the even more outrageous payments/pensions some CEO's of failed banks have walked away with...



They are talking passing a law to tax their bonus' etc by 90% in order to claw back monies they cannot touch because of contractually written agreements etc

At first glance I thought ... good for you... but thinking it through it would allow politicians to tax people individually and I see this fraught with danger?



Or another smokescreen?



Regards Joseph

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
20/03/2009 23:34

Freds pension was a commercial decision at the time and he should not be blamed for accepting the contract. Saying that as an employee who would turn down such benefits. If he was not to get the reward in his pension he would have needed higher renumeration to surive from day to day above the poverty line for his skills!!! It is the whole financial services industry that pays benefits over the top. I worked for the regulator at Canary Wharf and have witnessed very attractive benefits throughout the industry. The problem is that more recently many decisions have been made which do not appear prudent. Many people making the decisions are rewarded for market share performance nut these individuals are immature, inexperienced and cannot even remember the problems of the late eighties.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 03:39

Hi Stubs

Re

...You are right. I knew there was some element of a whistleblower "sacked" however there was also the issue of someone from HBOS being recruited for a senior position within the FSA who was privvy to the information they had previously been told...



Have you read about the Chang case... see new tag...

"Did the bankers deliberately destroy their own banks."



Regards Joseph

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 15:33

ITS BACK IN THE NEWS,the row continues,Lord Myners has been rumbled,in fact it has been disclosed he was aware of details about Goodwin's pension and has misled Parliament.He will have to go.You just couldn't make it up.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 17:50

Hi Kellyb...



Another smokescreen blown away... but I am willing to bet another manufactured "guilty party" will be spun out by this corrupt government.

After all it keeps public attention way from them... which I think is their aim?



Read Gillkens post "Gordon is told the truth" and just keep your eyes on the one shot of Flash Gordon... trying to put a brave grin on his face but boy is he squirming?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc9TVlzdEsc&feature=related



Regards Joseph

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 18:06

UK Financial investments (the tax payer, I presume) will vote against Sir Fred's pension.

Who's the odd one out and why?

Hitler, Sadam Hussein, Moira Hindley, Fred West, Peter Sutcliffe, Sir Fred Goodwin

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 18:35

Fred will keep his pension benefits, you see.

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 23:51

msg 39 Washerman,thats a difficult one,LOL