Seaterra Mortgages - Warning!

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 18:37

In November 2006, we purchased an apartment at Seaterra Reserve, Tatlisu. Our contract stated that it would be kept free from mortgages and encumbrances. During the contract registration amnesty, Seaterra informed us that there was no need to register our contract, however, in March 2008 we duly registered at the Tapu, only to discover that there were four mortgages taken out on the site. Our previous lawyer, Naomi Mehmet, has admitted that she was aware of these mortgages way before we discovered this, but sadly failed to inform us.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 18:38

Initially, Seaterrra advised that the mortgages totalled approx half a million pounds, however, in a later meeting with their director, Eyal Podhorzer, he advised that the mortgages totalled two million pounds. Due to the serious breach of the contract, we requested that our full funds be returned, but Seaterra refused. After much negotiation, and in order to safeguard some of our investment, we signed an additional contract in which they would return half of our funds, and they would endeavour to deregister the mortgages, or minimise the period of time between last payment and the lifting of the mortgages.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 18:38

Once the site was completed in July 2008, Seaterra requested that all our remaining funds be paid to them. We asked for further information that the mortgages had been paid off, and full details of the mortgages, but Seaterra refused to tell us anything, and instead kept demanding payment. Eventually, we received a letter from a company called Dalcross Trading with no registered company number, letter heading, or contact details other than a P.O. Box address in the British Virgin Islands. This letter stated that Seaterra (Marsol Properties Ltd) borrowed two million pounds from them, but they had paid back one million of this on 15th Oct 2008

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 18:39

Again we requested further information about this company and the mortgages and whether any of the mortgages had been deregistered at land registry. Seaterra’s reply to our lawyer on 1st Dec 2008 was: “I do not need to be interrogated by your clients about this as according to contract, I do not even have to show them anything or prove to them anything.” Seaterra also stated that they had not deregistered any of the mortgages at Land Registry. Obviously this made us concerned, and we refused to hand over any further money until the mortgages were paid.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 18:40

We asked Seaterra why the mortgages couldn’t be moved to the unsold apartments because according to Seaterra’s previous statements, all the funds from owners taking possession should have been collected to pay off the mortgages by that stage. We also again requested further information, but Seaterra threatened to cancel our contract and keep our £21,000. We were highly suspicious of a mortgage given to a possible sister or phoenix company. Seaterra had also not tried to deregister any of the mortgages, and in our opinion, had breached the second contract as well. Seaterra then sent us an email stating they have cancelled our contract and, to date, have not returned our funds.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 18:40

Seaterra have recently closed an office, members of staff have left, after only a few months, the sister company they set up to run the management on the Reserve has ceased its management, and they are not developing any further projects in TRNC. Because of this and the mortgages, it leads us to believe that they will be leaving the TRNC. We also believe that it’s a possibility Seaterra won’t be concerned if Dalcross Trading Ltd obtains a judgement against Seaterra because Seaterra won’t be here. Instead, it will be the owners that have to sort out the nightmare.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 18:41

Although many lawyers here will tell purchasers that it’s common practise for developers to take out mortgages here, it is not. Sibel is a volunteer with the HBPG so we know of several banks that are already threatening to foreclose on mortgaged land and auction the properties, despite the fact that owners have paid in full and are living in them. Because of the global economic crisis and the lack of protection for buyers in TRNC, this will only become worse in the coming year.

If anyone requires proof of this information please email me at sibellehodge@hotmail.com or come along to the HBPG surgery on Tues at Pia Bella 12-3pm



Sibel and Brad

johnboy


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 170

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 18:57

KS - you have my sympathy.



If we knew then what we know now.

gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
Posts: 1591

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 19:12

If this thread lasts an hour I'd be very surprised.

berkeh2001


Joined: 28/02/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 19:27

ks my heart goes out to you but unfortunately this is north cyprus is place where there is cow boys ,indians and ringos fighting each other but it seems were the ringos who get noting my advice take them to the european court take care and do NOT give in

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 19:51

This problem is also occuring in the South, where there is also a big delay between people buying property and them recieving deeds in their own name. With the current economic situation it is almost certainly going to get a lot worse before it gets better unfortunately :(

Inca999


Joined: 25/11/2007
Posts: 20

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 19:59

And they had the nerve to get the other threads closed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 20:05

What you and we need is the solidarity and backing of EVERY investor in NC whether British or otherwise to show to the TRNC Government (and property developer/lawyer/estate agent etc.) that this fraud (for that is what it is) is not acceptable and is harming the interests of its citizens and international reputation. What you/we don't need is the 'you should have done your homework' 'it's North Cyprus what do you expect' 'it's the TC culture, accept it' 'you should have got a good lawyer' 'don't rock the boat, you'll scare/upset the builder/future buyers and we all lose' opinion from the cowards brigade who don't do anything to resolve the situation. It appears to me that Seaterra have got away with these tactics for so long because of their bullying and threatening tactics, including shtting down threads on this forum, which has worked until now. No more I hope!

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 20:06

Hi Sibel and Brad, so sorry to hear of your plight can but wish you the best.



re

... we know of several banks that are already threatening to foreclose on mortgaged land and auction the properties, despite the fact that owners have paid in full and are living in them...



Do you think it in the public interest to name on our forum the banks and sites threatened because I think people need to be aware of any situation they may or may not be finding themselves in and yet again this forum has proved that however distressing these "facts" need disclosing.



Regards Joseph

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 20:07

Inca,

This shows that nobody can suppress the truth for long specially in this day and age of the internet. Indeed many of the Bulletin Boards like TRNC Villa Owners have no commercial links and hence not subject to any pressure.

ismet

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 20:09

I forgot to say well done to Sibel and Brad for posting this and including the name of Seaterra and their then lawyer Naomi Mehmet who apparently has failed in her duty of care to her clients and may have been in collusion with Seaterra.

Inca999


Joined: 25/11/2007
Posts: 20

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 20:33

I hope they don't close this thread down.... Not until it is resolved as we have been promised it would by the end of the week. After all why should people be shut up for speaking the truth ?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 21:14

An excellent posting. Very well done Sibel and Brad. I hope matters DO get resolved.



Very well done Cyprus 44 allowing this thread to continue.



wyn

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 21:34

Elko2 msg 15



"Indeed many of the Bulletin Boards like TRNC Villa Owners have no commercial links and hence not subject to any pressure."



This is not always the case Elko as commercial pressure from advertisers is not the only pressure companies exert to try and silence people. On a forum I run a member sighned up and made a post. A little while later I got a 'threatening' letter from solicitors acting for a property company claim the post this member made was defamtory and that I as the 'publisher' was once notifed as liable for this post as the person who made it, as per the Godfrey vs Demon internet case in the UK. They 'requested' I remove the pst and block the member from making any more posts backed up with the threat "Should any of the material defamatory of our Clients, to which we have referred you, remain on your website; we shall hold you liable in defamation for its publication. "



[cont]

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 21:38

Obviously Sibel and Brad are talking rubbish as is if Seaterra would ever do such a thing. Seriously good luck and hope you get a happy ending asap. I assume Naomi Mehmet has apologized and returned your payment. It looks to me that Seaterra no longer advertise on cyprus44. So to be fare to Isset it could be that he is removing certain threads for fear of litigation, he's only a young man and probably not experienced in this field. As this has been posted on other BBs such as Ismets (who is highly experienced in legal matters and married to a lawyer, not Naomi) Isset has nothing to worry about. Everybody deserves the truth.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 21:40

Now the simplest and easiest and possibly most sensible response to this would have been to remove the post. However having read it it seemed to me that the threat was an empty one and the letter designed to attempt to silence the poster without the need for any due process of law, using intimiadtion of the person running the web site, in this cae myself.



Despite the fact that by not complying with the 'rerquest' made of me I have in fact a potential personal liablity I decided to not comply with it , as I beleive that there were wider and more important issues at stake than my own personal potential liability. I replied to the solicitors in question that this was my decision and since then (about a month ago) have heard no more.



The above however demostrates that companies can and do try and silence people even those using websites that have no commercial interest or activites at all.



[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 21:44

For info the case in question related to property in the South of Cyprus. The alledged defamatory post can be seen here (and by giving it here I am problably increasing any potential personal liability)



http://www.talkcyprus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6074



I had no involvment with any of the parties other than to be the person named as runnnig the forum in question. I do not know the poster, the companies he talks about or the solicitors acting for them. The forum is entirely non profit and non commercial.

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 21:56

My apologies erolz. Its so annoying when you get a post in the middle your own.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 22:10

No need to applogies BillyB , not your fault.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 22:15

Erol,

Threats of litigation is not something new to me.I was threatened with legal action by an advocate and a developer for what I wrote on the BB's in person but unfortunately they did not have the courage to keep their promises. Instead I had the pleasure of having my picture published in the papers upside down.



I looked at Godfrey vs Demon case that you quoted and I noticed that it was settled out of court. Actually I am always uneasy of libellous posts made by new or recent members and always make a point of asking for evidence. People are free to make comments and thus in my view BBs are more like coffeeshops and less like newspapers in the sense that everybody can contribute to the discussion and thus the truth always comes out.



BillyB,

Thanks for your comments about me. Actually I do enjoy going to court and have a field day there but its not always easy to get a match

ismet

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 22:18

this of course can happen to any development and I raised this issue on another thread some time ago but people ignored it. THis happened in spain in the late eighties during a similar financial crisis. I was aware of this when I bought and I asked Naomi whether they did continuing searches during the development. she confirmed that they didnt so there could be many problems ahead. Perhaps the developers should come clean.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 22:54

Elko2 msg 25



The point is that they could have threatend the person running the forum instead of you - this kind of indirect attack is unfortunately often very effective in silencing people.



The Godfrey case was finally settled out of court but only after a court had ruled that Demon Internet as the 'publisher' of the allegation, not the actual poster, could be held liable. This is the precedent that companies seek to use to bully not the person who makes the claim but anyone involved in the site that allows them to make it. A bad precedent imo and one that needs futher challenge.



The point for me in the specific situation I found myself in was that although the poster was 'new', he gave his full and real details and did not in my opinion say anything defamatory. I could of easily 'silenced' him but I just did not thing doing so was the right thing to do.

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 23:13

Sibel and Brad

I for one will be there on Tuesday, I very nearly bought from this Company and friends of mine have, so I will be there to support however I can..



Mc

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
18/03/2009 23:18

Msg. 27

Erol,

In that particular case Demon acted very unreasonably and refused to remove a post by someone pretending to be Dr. Geoffrey and refused to remove it despite a plea from the real person. It was a very extreme example. There is so much on You tube and if they feared such action they would be out of business overnight.

In my particular case I was also one of the admins of the forum, so they could hold me responsible as a "publisher" so to speak. Anyway, let us not hijack this thread any more, if necessarry we can start a new thread on this. Sorry Sibelle.

ismet

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 06:49

Well done Sibel and Brad for naming and shaming. I love this quote:

Seaterra’s reply to our lawyer on 1st Dec 2008 was: “I do not need to be interrogated by your clients about this as according to contract, I do not even have to show them anything or prove to them anything.” IMHO only an arrogant idiot would say such a thing, or someone with something to hide. It shows complete contempt for their customers.

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 06:50

kibrissibel wrote:

"We asked Seaterra why the mortgages couldn’t be moved to the unsold apartments because according to Seaterra’s previous statements, all the funds from owners taking possession should have been collected to pay off the mortgages by that stage. We also again requested further information, but Seaterra threatened to cancel our contract and keep our £21,000."

For those Seaterra owners who are slagging off Brad and Sibel for their actions, it seems they asked for the mortgages to be moved onto the unsold apartments a long time ago. Only now, after the mortgage details were put on the boards have Seaterra said they are going to write a letter of exclusion for apartment owners. (Although I'm not sure whether this protects them legally from a company in the British Virgin Islands) Maybe you should be thanking them to try and get some positive action for all owners. They haven't done anything wrong, all they did was buy an apartment with a company who breached their contra

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 06:50

They haven't done anything wrong, all they did was buy an apartment with a company who breached their contracts and didn't fulfill their obligations!

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 06:57

Anyone who gives up their time to volunteer with the HBPG to help all buyers is a hero in my book!

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 14:26

Hi all,



I too used toi be a moderator on an alternative forum for a while.



The forum owner will always be the one threatened with legal action and they normally just request you remove the thread/postings and remove the poster from the system otherwise they will take legal action.



IF THE alegations are TRUE and you have written evidence of this then as far as I am aware they cannot take legal action against you for libelous or defamatory claims etc!!



It is only when it is speculation that you have a legal battle on your hands!



Al that said this is NC and they operate differently to the rest of the world but in a european court they wouldnt be able to enforce any legal action if the person making the claims can prove in written and documented evidence that everything they stated was TRUE!



Even better if the issues in question are on documented evidence from the company themselves in question- from the horses mouth so to speak???



take care dx

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 21:10

Thanks everyone for your support.

Joseph - yes we do believe it is in everyone's best ineterests to be aware of which banks are giving mortgages on land. In some cases, the banks actually saw the contracts of sales so they were aware that people had purchased properties on the land they granted mortgages for. On TRNC Villa Owners, dutch crusader was recently trying to establish which banks are involved in mortgages. The HBPG is also trying to establish this ( please see: http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/mortgages.html )



BillyB - no Naomi Mehmet did not return our funds.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 21:11

It has been stated on the Seaterra Owners forum that this information is not helpful so we would like to address some of the issues raised:



As far as we are aware, we are not involved in a slanging match with anyone. As we stated previously, there was a confidentiality clause in our additional contract with Seaterra, which Seaterra put in to the contract, not us, therefore it was not our choice to keep this quiet. We did not want to be the ones to breach the contract, therefore we couldn’t go public with this information until the contract was officially cancelled. We have not kept this a secret; we have informed family and friends, and people who have asked us about it because we are not prepared to lie, however, we could not go public with this information until now. Ultimately, it was Seaterra’s responsibility to contact owners and inform them of the mortgages, not ours. In our opinion, the fact that they did not do this, and they advised us it was not necessary to register our c

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 21:12

In our opinion, the fact that they did not do this, and they advised us it was not necessary to register our contracts, leads us to believe they were being deceitful. It is also the purchaser’s lawyer who is responsible for informing their clients of any mortgages, not ours. The mortgages were discussed on the previous Seaterra site, so this information was out there. Any person can go to the land registry and do a search to find out this information. I am assuming that you registered your contract at land registry, so you would have been aware of the mortgages yourself.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 21:13

We are not launching a “very loud smear campaign” or “bitter campaign,” we are informing the public of the facts that took place, and our opinions, so people can make an informed choice and be aware of problems to safeguard future purchasers. If Seaterra feel they don’t have to answer questions about the mortgages, then this is highly suspicious, in our opinion. We have, and are pursuing all avenues for the return of our funds that Seaterra hold asap. Keeping these kinds of problems secret does not help the construction industry, or the TRNC economy. Only by addressing these issues to ensure these problems don’t continue here can we hope to make a positive change for the TRNC as a whole. As a Turkish Cypriot, believe me, I want what is best for this island. I want it to prosper and be successful, and that means eliminating this kind of problem for purchasers

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 21:13

We didn’t state that we had proof of Seaterra planning to leave the island; we said their actions led us to believe this, therefore this is our opinion about a combination of their actions: failing to inform purchasers of the mortgages, failing to answer questions about the mortgages, failing to move the mortgages onto the unsold apartments, failing to deregister any of the £2million mortgages at Land Registry, taking out a mortgage (in serious breach of contract) with a company in the British Virgin Islands, which has no contact address, tel no, email, registered company no; failing to return funds due to their breach, an office closing, staff leaving, no further development, their sister company no longer running the maintenance. All of these actions are highly suspicious in our opinion.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 21:14

We didn’t state that the mortgages were now £1million; this is what the letter from Dalcross Trading Ltd, in the British Virgin Islands, states. It also states that none of the £2 million has been deregistered at land registry. Effectively this means that none of the mortgages have been deregistered. We have no idea what the interest rate is on this mortgage. In our opinion, a mortgage given to a sister or phoenix company is more complicated than mortgages given by a TRNC bank because any agreement could have been made, for example, the interest rate could be set up so that it’s excessive. This could mean that the £5K or £7K you are referring to could possibly double etc.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 21:15

This is why we were requesting further information as to the terms of the mortgages. On receipt of this letter from Dalcross Trading Ltd at the end of November 2008, this is when we began to worry. Obviously there were emails/letters going back and forth to Seaterra and lawyers, and this all takes time. As we stated before, we signed a confidentiality clause, so we couldn’t reveal this until now.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 21:15

We are glad that Seaterra stated to you that they are finally doing something regarding the mortgages. I hope this is a legally binding document, which excludes owner’s apartments, communal areas, and all infrastructure. As we stated, we did ask a long time ago why they couldn’t move the mortgages to the unsold apartments, but unfortunately they didn’t want to answer this, or be questioned about the mortgages. This was also highly suspicious to us. Instead, they emailed us stating our contract was cancelled. We’re sorry you don’t think this information is helpful, but at the end of the day, we feel this is something that has been caused by Seaterra with their breach of contract, not ourselves, and we feel it is in the best interests of purchasers to be aware of this.

Sibel and Brad

NaomiMehmet


Joined: 19/03/2009
Posts: 6

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 23:34

I usually try to avoid posting directly on these forums, but feel compelled to respond to the allegations made against our firm, in particular to Hector's comments that we 'failed in our duty of care'. Sibel's posting implies that we were aware of the existence of mortgages at the time of her purchase. I must, however, make it clear that the mortgages did NOT exist at the time she signed her Contract of Sale (at the date of the Contract, the property was free from encumbrances) and were registered after the Contract date. Unfortunately, at the time she purchased, there was no mechanism for registering Contracts of Sale at the Land Registry - this was only made possible after the introduction of the Estate Agents Law on 2nd January 2008 - and therefore, there was nothing which we, or any other lawyer, could have done to prevent these mortgages from being registered. The mortgages came to light during the chaotic period of registration of Contracts after the Estate Agents Law was passed.

NaomiMehmet


Joined: 19/03/2009
Posts: 6

Message Posted:
19/03/2009 23:39

Unfortunately, during this period, I was away for a long time due to personal reasons. The mortgages were discovered by my colleagues and were being investigated. However, Sibel registered her own Contract at the Land Registry at around the same time and discovered the existence of the mortgages before we were able to contact her to inform her of our discovery. We appreciate and understand that this was a great shock to her, but it was not possible for us to contact all of our clients to explain the position within such a short time. After the discovery of the mortgage, we afforded Sibel every assistance in trying to resolve the matter with Sea Terra, including attending meetings and negotiating the successful return of a substantial amount of money to her by Sea Terra.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/03/2009

NaomiMehmet

Thank you for your reply for which you have a right to do so on this board.

However can we just remind ourselves that this board is not the place to intimately discuss the legal aspects of the thread between complainants and defendants. Any legal concerns should now be dealt with offboard.

AJ

Izzet



Joined: 01/12/2006
Posts: 920

Message Posted:
20/03/2009 00:17

This thread is now closed. Reason: Thread was addressed and no need for further posts.