Did the bankers deliberately destroy their own banks?

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 03:55

Morning all...



Really heavy subject today... but there is now growing astonishment as to how banks that less than three or four years ago were postings billion pound profits have crashed. RBS , much in the news at the moment re Fred Goodwin.. went from assets of plus £88 billion in 1999 to estimated liabilities of minus £1.3 trillion in 2009.



The figures are almost incomprehensible for an idiot to achieve; but so called competent men... makes one wonder?



HBOS was warned by Paul Moore, their in house risk manager, about its position, a warning that resulted in him being sacked and replaced by a sales executive with no risk management qualifications.



Similarly David Chang warned Abbey National about positions that were unsustainable. He was found dead at the bottom of their internal atrium in London after a three hour "grilling" by bank security. His family demand answers but are being blocked by the powers that be.



What's going on.. what is the truth?



Regards Joseph

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 04:02

Apologies that should read Richard Chang ... not David.



Here is a link for anyone unaware of the story:



http://www.dimsum.co.uk/community/justice-for-richard--chang-campaign---4th-anniversary.html



One article reads:



"Brown's job seems to be to take advantage of the destruction of the banks, by pouring far too much of our economy into those ready made back holes, which will destroy the Pound Sterling.



The crisis was caused by the USA and EU governments deregulating banks in 1999. Massive, self collapsing bubbles predictably formed in every market including housing, stocks, and derivatives. It is deregulation that enabled corrupt boards to wreck their own banks. They now have estimated liabilities of £7.2 trillion or £250,000 per household; they should now go bust; Britain cannot afford to save them."



Should we save the banks or let them go bust?



Scarey stuff?



Joseph

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 07:55

I attended a meeting the other day and the guest speaker was from THE BANK of ENGLAND he started his speech by saying that I have no good news so I guess I will tell you about the bad.



....... and hate to tell you guys it will get worse before it gets better, but if there is any solace to be taken in this every country is the same



They got it wrong and now there is nowhere to go! the interest cannot be cut any further and we will probably end up with a Nationlised banking system!



He showed a predicated fan chart of recovery and it covered most bases as you can imgine being a fan chart it would, but the prediction in the whole economy and banking systems is that it will worsen until 2010 and slowly recover being back to say about where we are now by 2012,



All in all pretty grim - he left saying it is bad out there and we all went to find the nearest bridge..... but as I don't like heights I am still here to tell the

tale....... depressing

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 08:25

Did the banks screw up? Hey! does petrol burn??

But why throw more gas on the fire?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 09:43

Joseph,



Did the banks go out deliberatley to destroy themselves? IMHO.......No!



What seems to have happenned is a mix of arrogance (on behalf of management) greed (on behalf of Management and shareholders) incompetence (How many in senior positions had

banking qualifications) Old Boys act (take a look at Private Eyes list of Banks Non Execs and the fees they were drawing) and a culture wherein they traded in a world where they all believed they were too big to fail, and that a Government of any political persuasion, would NOT LET THEM FAIL.



Add to the above huge payoffs for failure (plus Government advisor jobs) and pensions that would make "Royals" salivate, and the ocaisional slight of hand from The Trustees of the

pension fund, on your way out, and its triples all round.



I still dont know if it has sunk in yet but this will be paid for by YOUR children, grandchildren

and great, great grandchildren, that pay for this debacle for years to come.



How do we put it rig

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 09:53

Nationalise the banks? The Government have little choice as the banks still do not seem to know where is the bottom of the bad news. A National Disgrace.



Madame Guillotine was a method used by the French to concentrate the mind. Sounds a promising way forward to me! Said in jest, but how far are we from serious public disorder

in reality? ( It would be one way for Gordon Brown to claw back Sir Fred Goodwins pension)



Once we have sorted out the bankers, we could use the same remedy to sort out This Motley Government, that allowed it to happen (nay encouraged it all) in the first place.



Just my views, thats all.



wyn

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 10:34

If you read Nostradamus, his interpatation is that the worlds banks are ran by a single body that has purposly brought about the downturn to assist the Antichrist from the east in his domination of the west, when you look at the hugh loses that have accured, one has to believe the situation is manufactured, incompetance on such a scale is unbeleivable. Another ditty from old Nostra and his book of doom is that the eastern Med will be a blackspot for a Nuke war, so start building your shelters let the Greeks have their land back and buy yourself a coke plant in Columbia, may aswell go with a smile on your face.



D.N

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 11:42

I think Estate agents have a lot to answer for being unregulated (in UK) they hiked the price of houses up together with the BS & Banks surveyors never challenging prices up and up they went no one stopped them so banks & BS changed their lending criteria again and again, bad lending, bad debts. Priced the 1st time buyers out of market no one on bottom rung. Now paying the price !



bascially bad lending has not helped and now we are down to less cashflow and small lending instiuations trying to selling their debt on ! less lending houses criteria tighter houses dropping bubble burst!

greenman


Joined: 16/02/2008
Posts: 526

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 11:42

What worries me is the rise of the 'professional politician' who go from a student (of politics) to public life taking their distorted views of life along with them. Gordon Brown is the epitomy of this. I fear his loathing of the Tory Party combined with the certain knowledge that Labour will not be elected next time has led him to plan for the future in a most destructive way. His grossly misguided support for the injection of massive funds into the banking system will result in painful tax increases for us all from whoever wins the next election. The winning Party (probably Tory) will find it very difficult to govern and will not be elected for a long time in the future. This is 'prudence' turning to slash and burn politics and planning the way for the 'new/old/phoenix' labour party rising from the ashes.

Harlequin


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 15:14

Imagine this scenario:



The US buys from China because it is so cheap and then moves vast parts of it's own manufacturing to China creating huge unemployment in the US and creating tens of millions of jobs in China.



The US government then comes to depend on the Chinese investing in US government bonds so it can pay for unemployment, the military and all else.



The Chinese have to invest the money in the US so that the American people will carry on buying more Chinese goods or else there will be unemployment in China and then social unrest etc. (Chinese growth needs to be 8% pa for this.)



At this point everyone is happy as all have what they want. The Chinese have jobs and the lazy American have money. At this point the US and China are to all intents and puposes one country.

Harlequin


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 15:21

cont.



Eventually the US owes so much to the Chinese that they can never pay it back, not ever.



Ah!, yes but, says some clever fellow all we need is a huge dose of dollar inflation (Zimbabwe style)and then we can pay them back with the joke money we are going to print.



So, we get the dredit crunch to which the "experts" decide the only answer is "quantitative easing." (Printing money to the rest of us.)



So here we are and there have been 20,000,000 unemployed Chinese in the last two months.



The only people who will not suffer will be the politicians and civil servants on their fat salaries and gold plated pensions. So, everything will be ok.



The targets are that the US cheats the Chinese by paying them back in silly money and the "Chinese leadership" get to hang on to their jobs.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 16:58

A friend emailed me this website as he thought it made scarey reading?



http://www.eutruth.org.uk/



There is unfortunately a lot of scaremongering within, but as with everything else there seems to be an awful lot we should be worried about.

Have a read and see what you think generally... very worrying...



What do you think?



Regards Joseph

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 22:08

i know the bankers get big bonus's and lots of people didn't pay up on their loans.

but where did all that money go?

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 22:25

I don't think even they know ;-)

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 22:33

If you like to gamble now is the time to buy bank shares, the experts are starting to say the tide is turning, watch the value of the shares start to climb.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 22:40

msg 1 yes ////////// they took all that was going .

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 22:45

message 15 yep you are right it is good for anyone that is dependant on stock prices unit trust etc that doesn't ned the money stick with it - as you are currently buying more units and then when they go up ££££ in ........ as long as you can weait that long



Regards to all

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 22:59

advice please- - is it worth carrying on paying into a private pension? loads of people i know have froze them . .



andy

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 23:06

msg. 10



"The US buys from China because it is so cheap and then moves vast parts of it's own manufacturing to China"



C'mon, and where were Your TV, PC, clothes etc made? VW, you think it's Europe's largest carmaker? No, it's Chinese No.1 carmaker. Face the truth, everybody's doing the same.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 23:41

andy - my advice go and see your financial advisor he should be able to give you sound advise becasue I guess yu will get conflicting advice on a forum and something as important as a pension should only be given from a professional imo



Regards

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
21/03/2009 23:49

thankyou sienna

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
22/03/2009 00:06

andysue, msg 18



Spot on sienna. I can only add that the decision might be strongly dependent on when you plan to retire.

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
22/03/2009 01:06

andysue

re

advice please- - is it worth carrying on paying into a private pension? loads of people i know have froze them . .



Might find some useful info on the following tag from a few weeks ago as some questions were asked similarly. Type in ... "Pension Wipeout"



Remember though ...seek independent advice... preferably from a couple of different sources, also there is so much you can learn yourself from internet.

Believe it or not I still get cold phone calls from such as HBOS asking if I would like financial advice etc?



If it wasn't so sad you would laugh (-:



Regards Joseph

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
22/03/2009 01:14

Seems to be a deathly silence re the above link?



Anybody checked it out ,scaremongering or too near to what is happening?



http://www.eutruth.org.uk/





Regards Joseph