Reserve complex site

Arnold


Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
23/03/2009 13:45

Can any one comment on this site , how big is the inside pool ? we are looking for an all year round site must be near golf course , how far is it ?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
23/03/2009 15:11

hi arnold,



do you mean seaterra reserve near tatlisu?

this is a an attractive site at a beautiful mountain location,

with substantial indoor heated pool and others outside

we looked at the nearly-completed development a year ago

but never went ahead for quite different reasons



many parts this far east of girne are nice, you should see for yourself!



have been some problems with an undeclared mortgage of some sort

originally on the land when seaterra bought it:

important to get your lawyer to have a specific legal exclusion prepared



as regards golf the nearest I know of is the korineum golf club

in the esentepe area, about 25 minutes drive west of seaterra reserve

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
23/03/2009 15:16

Arnold, there is Turtlebay complex which I believe has 7 swimming pools and 400 properties. Shops, restuarants etc. Its more or less opposite Korenium golf club......



You have a smaller complex of apartments at Bahceli Palm Bay View. There are still some apartments for sale and will be some for rent no doubt.



Palm Bay View close to completion.



nunu1

tonyhickey



Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 413

Message Posted:
23/03/2009 16:00

Hi Arnold We are buying at Crystal Bay Marina fabulous site nearly finished. Being built by Evergreen Developments, excellent build and well finished. Tony.

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
23/03/2009 16:25

Hi Tony Hickey,

Just out of interest do you have any photos-links etc of this development Crystal Bay Marina? Would like to see details as Ive heard good feedback.



nunu1

tonyhickey



Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 413

Message Posted:
23/03/2009 17:45

. http://crystalbaymarina1.multiply.com/ try this

cocos


Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
23/03/2009 19:49

I wouldnt buy on the reserve till the mortgages are paid off or your in serious danger of never legally owning the property and if the banks foreclose it may be auctioned off underneath y ou. Have a look at the other posts about in under Seaterra MOrtgages - Warning topic and cyprus today article topic. Looks like all sorts of companies are involved in £2million worth of mortgages that Seaterra took out

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
23/03/2009 21:39

I don't know all the facts cocos but consider this:

the worst thing of all is a developer going "bankrupt"

my friend lost her life savings in spain this way



or the developer ups sticks after marking out the ground plan

and trousering all your dosh like mr beaumont did in south cyprus



credit is extremely difficult these days

it may be that a developer needs mortgages on the place

until the flats are sold, just to stay solvent



it of course unaccceptable business practice

but does happen frequently in north cyprus

if you particularly like a site mortgage questions are worth

checking out with a good lawyer like naomi

and there may be a way around it



when I visted seaterra I never saw a bmw or hummer

but they may have gone to be serviced, what any developer is not

is mary poppins but some are better than others

and like the row about the access road to seaterra bay,

not everything is within their control

Arnold


Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
03/04/2009 17:46

I have more or less decided on buying on the Reserve apartment site and just wanted to ask if any more buyers out there and are the management up to scratch ?

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
03/04/2009 20:09

Hi Arnold .

The Reserve have just been taken over re management Donough Bayer and up to now there reputation is very good , we have a forum that all Sea Terra owners can log into , hence the good feedback on D/B , if you do go ahead with the purchase the details of the forum will be passed on to you .

The Reserve is a fab all round development , good luck with everthing .

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
03/04/2009 21:51

Arnold, I'm interested in what posseses people to purchase on a site that has been heavily mortgaged since the beginning of 2007 and none of the mortgage has been paid back. Since being exposed for this Seaterra on other threads have told customers that they will receive a letter of exclusion from the mortgages next week. This was about 2 months ago and still no letter. If customers ever receive this letter it will need to be thoroughly checked for its legality. So I'm interested in what Seaterra have told you and what your lawyer has told you as I'm so surprised that anyone wants to proceed under these circumstances.

Pipe, since Donaghy & Beyler have taken over the Reserve they've increased the fees by approx 40% so you need to take this into consideration. You seem to be selective in what information you give. Didn't you say on another post that you would expose problems on your other site but you havent told Arnold about the mortgage!!

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
03/04/2009 22:49

BillyB



I have given Arnold the good feedback that we have regarding D/B from our forum , the feedback promotes D.B in a very good light , now regarding any negative feedback i feel sure that Arnold has now been alerted and he will endeavour to look into this negatiivity before he embarks on any purchase .



I have not been selective in any info i have given out only what i have cascaded from happy customers from D/B .





Billybob you have accused me before on another thread of saying something yet you never responded to my request then to explain myself , i do hope on this thread history does not repeat itself so please , regarding your comments quote ''expose problems ' i ask you to expand on this and , i will respond

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
03/04/2009 23:17

BillyB from alcatraz !



You seem to have real bitterness in your issues with Sea Terra I take it you have a problem with them.



Do you own a ST apartment ? just curious !?



Regards

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 20:14

Sienna, I'm not bitter atall I just like people to know the truth. I do not own ST apartment so I dont actually have a problem with them but because of the lack of correspondance from ST that was promised months ago it could be a case that 500 customers will have a problem and until its sorted out I do not want furhter people to be misled in to this situation. Do you?

If any out there have information in your posession then please enlighten me and once customers are 100% protected from these mortgages then I'll be have no need to warn people of the problems they may face. I was actually asking arnold a question because I'm interested in what advice he has been given to make him want to buy.



Pipie, whose Billybob?

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 21:10

Sorry the question was to you BillyB

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 22:12

Surely tho' if you are aware of the mortgage and still decide to go forward with a purcahse then thats up to the individual ?!



At least the site is complete ST are still around and still putting issues right, thats more than can be said for quite a few of the unfinished sites around here !



After all haven't we all taken a risk purchasing in the North anyways



regards

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 22:41

Have to agree sienna is correct , Sea Terra are still around and they are adhering to there after sales guarantee , on the Marina i can vouch that Sea Terra have asked all owners to state any snagging that was needed 2 year after the build , owners completed form and feedback have said these snaggings have been carried out , also on the Marina Sea Terra issued extra plants so again they listened to owners requests , Also when i E-mail Sea Terra i get a response straight away , yes we had teething problems with Sea Terra during the purchase , but i have to speak as i find , Sea Terra are around for me 2 years after i purchased and are still addressing issues we have . As i have said i feel sure Arnold has been alerted to negativity and will act accordingly . Good luck Arnold

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 22:47

sienna,



this is a reasoned response



I would have thought billyb (does) have a serious problem with seaterra,

or at least a serious problem of one sort or another



seaterra reserve is one of the most spectacular of sites and from what I hear

from friends at seaterra developments, while there have been a number of

problems of various types seaterra usually do what they can to rectify them



any buyer faces a number of danger areas but this question of mortgages

can usually be sorted by a reasonable solicitor, assuming you can find one



there are particular risks buying in the north

and it is not always clear that lower prices are enough to compensate



and meanwhile doing without the benefit of billyb's custom

is one sacrifice that seaterra will just have to make, I expect

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 23:28

Andre....message 18

Your comments to BillyB seem very dismissive and flippant.

It may well be that he does have an axe to grind with Seaterra ,but the issue of developer mortgages on "sold" properties is a very serious one and is of interest to many potential purchasers in NC,and a concern for those who may have already committed to buying.

If Seaterra had been upfront and transparent about the mortgages in the first place then people could have made a genuine informed choice.

It would appear that Seaterra have only now been open about their indebtedness since it was exposed as a truth by others.

If Billyb is telling the truth , then he should not be castigated for doing so.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 23:33

arnold to get back to your original question on ST website under Reserve Complex there are pictures of the indoor pool amongst other pics



regards

Inca999


Joined: 25/11/2007
Posts: 20

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 23:51

Hi Arnold



We purchased an apartment on the Reserve in Sept 2006. I can tell you that we are very pleased with the property and the site in general.



But be aware there are mortgages in place, taken out after our contract was signed and without our Knowledge. BillyB is quite correct, we were promised letters of exclusion several weeks ago and we have still not had them. Each time we email or phone we are told they will be ready in the next fews..... Not sure how long a few days equates to in the TRNC. While all this is going on we are left to worry and ST don't appear to give a S*** about those who have paid in full !

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 00:16

Cronos you are spot on. Many lawyers here have told clients that a mortgage is nothing to worry about but it is a very serious issue here and will be even worse this year. Have to agree with some of the above posts, the reserve is a very nice site with a quality finish but this is really irrelevant if one of these four suspicious companies involved decide to repossess it. As Sibel said in another post, Seaterra won't give clients any details of the mortgages. The interest rate could be astronimical, meaning the mortgage could now be a lot more than the original 2 million quid.

Sienna - I think the indoor pool will pale in to sigificance if the properties are repossessed and there's no money left in the pot for the owners who've paid in full. Stop burying your head in the sand. This is going on now in other sites in TRNC. We're in the worst econimic crises this century! What's happened to all the money? Why is it when people say the facts & truth they're labelled a disgruntled custome

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 00:21

Sienna you said - "Surely tho' if you are aware of the mortgage and still decide to go forward with a purcahse then thats up to the individual ?!"



That is only the case if your lawyer or estate agent or developer warns you about it and tells you of the correct ramifications. Alot of them have not done this in the past and will simply say its normal practise or there's nothing to worry about when this is a serious problem. Would you buy a property in UK with a mortgage on it where you are not the legal owner and the mortgagee can repossess at any time? Before purchasing a car in UK many people have had it HPI checked, if you discover that the car still had a loan on it and could be repossessed would you still buy it? I think not, so why do it with a property in TRNC?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 00:31

cronos,



it is well known that buying any overseas property is a tricky business



in an earlier posting where he discusses medview homes billy b states:

"think again if you are thinking of buying here"

cronos do you think people shouldn't buy in north cyprus, and if so why?



now I am not holding up medview or seaterra or any trnc developer

as a shining beacon to the world but I do feel my comments about seaterra were candid and reasoned



and the last thing I would do is unecessarily ridicule billyb

who said he has another place in beverly hills, his residence is alcatraz island

and uses the tag "la.piss"

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 00:37

Andre.....the question of whether people should buy in NC is a much larger one altogether.



But let's not divert from the specific point about Seaterra (and other developers ) mortgages on "sold" property.



That can't be right in anyone's eyes can it ?

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 00:49

Andre - how can it be right that Seaterra (or any other developer) have deceived customers about mortgages? how can it be right that people have paid in full and taken possession and they still havent paid the mortgage off & the property can be repossessed at any time? One would assume the mortgage is getting bigger day by day. How can it be right that they won't answer questions about it? Isn't that suspicious in itself? You said "but this question of mortgages can usually be sorted by a reasonable solicitor" the only way people can sort out a mortgage is if the mortgagee is willing to pay it off. The lawyer can't make them pay it off. If people have paid in full and the mortgage is still in situ, you have to ask yourself why. I think most of us can distinguish when Billyb is taking la.piss or when he's being serious, but if you don't believe him, there's more information on trnc villa owners site about Seaterra. I've read it and it speaks for itsself.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 00:51

tantalising answer cronos:



is it down to a problem of mortgages, or should anyone buy in north cyprus?



you say that is a "larger" question



does that mean it is far too big for a yes or no answer?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 00:53

Diversion tactics won't wash with most people Andre.



Your failure to give a straight yes or no to the mortgages issue speaks volumes.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 01:17

fair comment chronos,



of course it is wrong in principal for firms to sell properties

which have hidden mortgages



now can you tell me in return if you think it is quite ok

for people to buy any non-mortgaged property in north cyprus?



this may tell us whether or not you have greek cypriot connections



nothing wrong in that though

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 01:24

Andre..please !



The ultimate diversionary tactic.....suggesting that people may have greek cypriot connections to rubbish their opinions.



How low can you go ?



Just to clarify.....the answer is a resounding NO....but there's no way I can prove that to you is there?

Don't take this lazy option Andre......I've generally respected your posts up until tonight.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 01:41

well well



who would have thought a discussion about mortgages could get so heated



I really wasn't trying to rubbish your opinions;



only hoping to establish what your important "larger" opinions really are!



but I am quite unable to determine them so will have to leave it at that...



andre

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 01:48

This really takes the biscuit...........Are we suggesting Sienna, that its OK to buy on Seaterra because its complete and that's more than has happened on other sites? My, what a good reason for buying!



Andre it almost sounds like you are suggesting that there is nothing wrong with buying properties that are mortgaged. Can we just emphasise that under such circumstances it is the bank that owns the property, even though the buyer has paid in full.



Arnold to purchase a property in which there is the distinct possibility that the bank may reclaim it, leaves you open to financial loss. Are you a gambler? Is it worth the risk and stress? It's difficult enough buying in the TRNC why buy something that already has identified problems?

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 07:41

Bradus I am not saying it is right, what I am saying is IF you have been informed and you want to go ahead that is then your problem and your gamble no one elses! eyes wide shut but all the same up to that person!



I am also not saying Sea Terra shouldn't have informed each person that had commited themselves to purcahse as they only found out when they went to register title bad communication to say the least !



What I am saying is that we have all made a gamble in purchsing in the North yes the risks and consequences maybe higher at the Reserve Complex But yes there are worse situations out there, some have put their money into a site and no progress has ever been made aga saga Turtle Bay etc etc - so what i was saying is at least they are still around and not just flown off they are currently still here dealing with issues.



I am just pointing out facts I am not telling arnold to buy and I am not telling hiim not to he has the information he now has an informed choice

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 12:08

Here is the link to further information re these mortgages so people can make an informed choice. http://trncvillaowners.phpbb3now.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5899&hilit=seaterra

Bradus: we suspect it's worse than that as it's not even a bank that is involved in the mortgages. We suspect it's a possible sister company involved in this and due to the refusal of Seaterra to give us any information for months, despite repeated requests, we are suspecting the worst. Worse case scenario, in our opinion, is that the interest rate is astronomical, Seaterra goes bust because it can't pay back the loan and atronimical interest, therefore Seaterra's sister company, which could possibly be run by the same directors, can either foreclose on the whole site or demand further payments from the owners. Maybe ST didn't have intentions of doing this initially, but in the global economic downturn, they'll be looking after number one.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 12:17

It would appear that some ST customers have only been made aware of the mortgages since exposure, which means their informed choice had been taken away from them. When you bear in mind the financial gain that some lawyers, estate agents, developers are gaining from a sale, is it really an informed choice?

The Reserve is a nice site and finished to a high standard, our only concern is the huge mortgages and there failure to fulfil their obligations and promises to try to de-register the mortgage, and the suspicion surrounding it all. It doesn't matter if it's the nicest site in the world, however, if it's repossessed from owners.

Some ST owners have taken the view that any new potential owners shouldn't be informed of the mortgages by others, which is an incredibly selfish stance in our opinion. Sibel & Brad

sissy


Joined: 29/03/2008
Posts: 197

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 13:11

Arnold have you considered Sevilla Villas, they have a selection of different properties just about next door to the golf club. Click on to sevilla villas and see the selection they have.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 13:22

Sibel

>>>>Some ST owners have taken the view that any new potential owners shouldn't be informed of the mortgages by others, which is an incredibly selfish stance in our opinion..<<<<<



Your quote above is not so is it that is a slight destortion of the truth !!



Yes there is a mortgage and if you hire an advocate to deal with your pruchase then potential owners will know that - then THAT iS THEIR Choice and informed choice - its not your choice one way or another as it is not mine or any one esles thats what Ia m saying



Yes worse case senerio as you say they go bust but you don't know that they are anywhere near that stage either!



It seems you are hitting the self destruct button but then you only have £21K to loose others have more

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 13:33

.... and the point is if you continue to dig them out, carry on withthe intent of ruining their reputation what good is that going to be. Chicken and the egg senerioa - because they wont sell anymore units to be able to pay the mortgage off !



Just playing devils advocate



Whatever happens lets hope its for the best !

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 13:43

Will these advocates be the ones that "forgot" to inform buyers in the first place?



Why Sibel, only £21,000 to lose! Lucky you.



Why is it that when people are in desperate situations they comfort themselves by finding someone else who is worse off than them in order to make things look rosier?



Unite. Concentrate on your own problems. What good will comparing your problem with other sites predicaments actually achieve? There is strength in numbers. Do not divide into 2 camps, one burying head in sand, the other exploring all options but ruffling the feathers of those who just want the situation to go away.



The more information you have the more control you have.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 13:59

You are right Bradus but then Sibel is also guilty as she only bought this to light now! when she knew about it way back with using excuse or another (fore their own gain they were not worried about other owners then.. now she hasnt't got her own way she is intent on steaming ahead without consultation with the other owners, so I understand it - just blurted to the media first posted on every forum what she had done - is this the correct way to make you point to fellow owners not sure it is ?!



Sibel in fact doesnt have much luck as I remember on another baord there were issues with their other property cant remember outs and ins somehting ot do with electric I believe ! third time lucky thats if you sell your property and thats another point she had the proprty up for sale Knowing all this!!!

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 16:18

Sienna: as you are aware from ST board: Yes, we advertised the apartment for sale, because we believed that Seaterra would honour their contract and promises stating that the mortgages would be de-registered when the site was completed and people

took possession. We had an interested buyer prior to this, however,

we declined to go ahead with any sale until the site was completed and

we knew that the mortgage was paid off. We didn't want to push this

problem onto someone else. We also have emails to Seaterra and our

lawyers stating that we were unwilling to go ahead with any sale of

this apartment whilst the mortgage was in place

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 16:19

Some owners said they did not agree that it is right to bring it to public attention to

warn other prospective buyers as they believed the onus is on them to

check things carefully and they believed they should be concentrating on doing what’s best for current owner, not warning others, so I’m not sure why you think I’m distorting the truth

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 16:19

As I stated previously, Seaterra refused to return all our funds as they should have due to the breach of contract so after much negotiations we managed to get them to meet us half way and return half of our funds, hence the additional contract. At the time we saw this as a good sign that they were meeting us half way. However, at a later date when they asked for the full funds, we discovered that they had made no effort in trying to deregister the mortgages and there were 4 different companies involved in it. It was at this stage that we became suspicious especially as they refused to give us further information. Seaterra put the confidentially clause into the additional contract, not us, therefore we did not want to be the ones to breach the contract and could not inform people.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 16:20

The above is not an excuse for not informing people; we simply stuck to the contract, which can be enforced by law. What do we stand to gain by speaking out? ST owners were made aware of the mortgages in July 2008 on the ST board, but no one seemed to be interested. Also, it is the responsibility of the lawyer and developer to inform their clients of these encumbrances. You said “you hire an advocate to deal with your pruchase then potential owners will know that” but it would appear that some advocates did not inform their customers, nor did Seaterra inform all customers. I have only stated the truth or my opinions based on the truth. People can’t expect the truth to be covered up forever

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 16:25

Sibel......your actions speak volumes for your morals.....very honourable.

Despite others wanting to silence you , hopefully your warnings may have spared some potential purchasers a whole lot of grief in future i.e if the mortgages remain on the properties and Seaterra default.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 16:49

Not asking you to cover the truth just wanting to get to the bottom of it your story and you are sticking to it obviously - although I think you hav ea bigger picture to paint I think but thats my opinion.!

cocos


Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 17:54

Sienna I think your anger towards Sibel is misplaced. Why are you not directing it at Seatera who are the only ones to blame for this mess. They breached customers contracts, deceived customers by not informing them of the mortgages and also of course they haven't paid off a penny. Why are you not directing it towards the lawyers who knew about the mortgages and didn't inform their customers? Both parties kept it a secret. I wonder why that is!!! Why are you directing your anger towards a customer,( who by all accounts gave Seatera plenty of opportunity to explain, give info, pay off the mortgages,) before exposing their deceit to the public to stop it happening to others? Why are you directing it at a customer who has lost a large amount of money because she bought from Seatera in good faith?

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 19:49

different folks different strokes no anger just looking at from all sides never said I sided with Sea Terra if you read correctly nor did I have anger at Sibel - Just said there are many sides to the issue



I just think Sibel has a bigger Agenda right now and this is not always to the good of all owners !



Just because I dont' agree or maybe believe all the tale has been told correctly doesn't mean I am angry - the problem with most of this forum is you guys cannot stand anyone having a different opinion and are too black & white and very quick to be judge and jury ! yes they are wrong in how they communicated and yes if goes tits up it will be an issue ! BUt you don't know at this point that it will

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 19:56

Sibel has been extremely clear and detailed in her statements. I think the only agenda she has is wanting Seaterra to honour their contract and promises. I agree with cronos, her actions do speak volumes about her morals. If you think she's lying - as you seem to be accusing her of - please explain why.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 21:14

and poor Arnold still doesn't know how big the pool is !! but I would suppose he has been put off now anyway !!!

Arnold


Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 21:34

Thanks for comments .



Reserve looks a fantastic site ticks all the boxes , will pursue all before signing on the dotted line .

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 21:56

(Andre message 8 if you particularly like a site mortgage questions are worth checking out with a good lawyer like naomi and there may be a way around it )



It was naomi that didnt inform Brad & Sibel of the mortgages and possibly others. I suspect many other lawyers acted in a similar way. Brad & Sibel signed a contract in November2006 which was supposed to be free from mortgages, as were many others. At some point between this date and January 2008 when you could register your contract many other new purchasers signed contracts that didn't have the free from mortgage clause. Naomi said in a previous post ("the mortgages came to light in the chaotic period of registration of contracts after the estate agents law was passed.") Now you would think that lawyers would have a standard type contract with different developers so once they have drafted the first contract for the first purchaser of a development the following contracts are fairly standard cont....

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 22:05

cont..... as the terms and conditions have already been discussed and agreed with the developer. So at some point the developer took out the free from mortgage clause, now surely Naomi and other lawyers wouldve questioned why the contract had all of a sudden changed so it wasnt mortgage free any longer. So I suspect these lawyers knew about these mortgages way before the estate agents law was passed in Jan 2008. Not to mention the lawyers shouldve been carrying out searches for all new purchasers and wouldve discovered the mortgages in 2007. If all the owners give details of their lawyers and the date the purchased and if theyve got a mortgage free contract or not we will be able to distinguish what lawyers were negligent. I'm sure the HBPG would be interested in any feedback. I'm sure this wont happen because there is far too many sheep burying there heads in the sand

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 22:09

Ostriches bury their heads in the sand not sheep - they eat grasss and follow each other!

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 23:28

Pipie message12, Lets just say I can see through you but ive enjoyed the ride.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 23:47

BillyB . What an evasive answer , if you accuse some one of something you should have the courtesy to explain yourself ?



Could i ask , are you an x employee of Sea Terra ?



Are you a buyer on one of the sea terra sites ?



Are you now working in property sales for another company ?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 00:06

Pipie...msg 56



You forgot...."Are you a GC sympathiser?"



That is the usual lazy default question when trying to rubbish someone who is telling a truth different to what you want to hear.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 00:26

just would like my questions answered by BillyB . nothing to do with your silly post re messege 57 are you BillyB spoke person ?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 00:32

Of course Pipie....BillyB and I often share a few pints of Mythos with our GC chums and plan our devious assaults on this Board !



By the way...are you a spokesperson for all the Seaterra buyers?

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 00:48

I speak as i find , say no more cronos , let us keep on thread !!!!!

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 03:04

arnold the reserve is a stunner, you've got taste



suppose it isjust as well you now have some idea of what issues

there are to be sorted if you decide you cannot live without it



despite the moaning minnies and whining winnies there are good lawyers:

how far did you get on that score?

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 08:00

"There are good lawyers.."

That is true but they cannot get over the fact that

a) The Specific Performance Law stops the buyer from sueing the vendor for title deeds. The buyer can sue for compensation only,



b) If there is a mortgage on the land, no matter how they word the contract the buyer may end up with nothing. The only good thing that happened recently was the new law that enabled the registration of contracts with District Land Office. That stopped any new mortgages being put on the land but it could not do away with the older mortgages.



c) One of the mortgages on Sea Terra Reserve was was put on early 2008, after the new law came into effect but before any of the buyers had a chance to register their contracts i.e. it seems that it was done in a hurry. So you make up your own minds about the possible motives of this company.

ismet

doughnuts40


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 98

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 08:11

This thread keep rearing its ugly head. Has anyone worked out the figures?From my understanding there are over 60 apartments NOT sold. If you take an average figure of 60k per apartment then there is 3.6 million worth of assets for the loan company to seize should it go belly up. NO loan company would go after the sold properties when there is viable assets to cover the loan, which i understand is 1 million. Worldwide developers take out loans to cover their build costs so why is this such an issue here. I know many developers have done this against properties sold but its pretty clear to me that Seaterra have the assets to cover the loan. They seem to be a very good company that, by all accounts, are still there when their clients need them. I recall Brad and Sibel had problems with another developer. This was not due to mortgage issues but, it seems a clash of personalities! Have they bought from anyone they are happy with???????

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 08:23

Pipie, I think BillyB is on Turquoise bay

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 08:28

Good points made doughnuts40, my preference is jam please.

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 08:33

Pipie, Message56 No I'm not an x employee of Sea Terra. No I'm not a buyer of Sea Terra. No I'm not working in property sales for another company. I am not a GC sympathiser. Its about whats right and wrong.

Pipie can I ask you what you hoped to acheive by starting this thread under another name called ARNOLD? It would appear it has back fired on you as there has been little support and thankfully there are still many people out there who know whats right and wrong.

If you check ARNOLDS posts on the "turquoise bay please pay thread" my guess is that it's a Pipie sympathiser!! But if you go further and check the punctuations of Pipie and Arnolds posts they both leave a gap before and after the comma, also they both leave a gap before a full stop. This is extremely rare. I hope this explains everything Pipie .

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 09:45

blimey is this still rumbling on ! BillyB it runs deep with you to study things that deep, never crossed my mind



Perhaps you two should ignore each other



Have a great day

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 10:29

BillyB no it does not explain it to me , i do not know Arnold (at least not to my knowledge ) I am not Arnold , i do not post as Arnold , now you can post away till your hearts content that is your privilidge regarding forensics , quite entertaining for some , but in fairness to Arnold i think it would be fair to keep to the thread .

But it would be nice if you were to admit your involvement with Sea Terra Why may i ask is the secrecy ?

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 10:37

millzer.

If your are correct re BillyB buying on Turquoise bay , the way he puts his self over you would not think he would not be short sighted to the concerns/issues on T.B but there again , on this board you never know who's who do you !!!!!

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 12:57

Next you'll be accusing Ismet of living on Turquoise Bay and being a secret Greek Cypriot. Doughnuts40 I'm sure that all the other property purchasers who have suffered problems and lost a large portion of their money will disagree that it is a personality clash with their developer! i.e AgaUnless of course the personality clash is that the buyer wants what he paid for and was promised and the developer wants to defraud and not honour their contract, then I'd agree with you, but I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. The only people who can make any kind of change for the better is those who are not afraid to tell the truth and are outspoken enough not to be bullied in to silence. The ones who sit in a corner hoping it will never happen will not change anything for others in the future. Can you disclose where you're getting your information from that this mortgage is now £1 million. Sienna you keep avoiding my questions. What parts of this aren't being told correctly by Sibel and Brad.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 14:04

Steviemac I am not avoiding your question I will answer when and if I wish not when you demand it



the answers to the questions are in my other postings



all I will say is that Sibel & Brad may have got a lot further with other owners if they talk to them and not at them and stop surmising ST current financial postion

cocos


Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 15:19

What did the owners who found out about these mortgages in July do? Did they talk about it? Suggest forming some sort of coalition or committee? Confront their lawyers or Seaterra?

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 18:48

Sienna the reason I asked is becaue you seem to be making comments without being able to back them up. If other owners knew about these mortgages in July 2008 then why were you saying Brad and Sibel had kept this quiet for their personal gain because some owners were already of aware and it seems as if they didn't do anything.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 19:08

I think thats for the owners of the Reserve to answer not me



Brad & Sibel kept quiet at that time they did not discuss or mention anything the only posting on the owners forum as I understand it was to put their property up for sale they didnt air their concerns at all - could it be because they were negotiating their own little deal. Their property went up for sale about November on the forum I believe so where were their morals then ! when the mortgage was known about in July - you can dress it up if you like but they were still trying to off load it with a mortgage on it rightly or wrongly but even so a big contradiction to DONT PURCHASE ON THIS SITE that they are advertising now- when this didnt come to fruition they now decided to come clean straight to press I just find that odd but thats my opinion



thats why I say they now have a bigger agenda

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 19:51

Sienna - As I said before we did advertise the property for sale on the Seaterra board only because we believed Seaterra were going to fulfil their contracutal obligations at that time and the property was bought for an investment after all. We did have an interested party, but declined in writing to go further until the site was fully completed and we knew for sure that the mortgages had been paid off to safeguard any buyer because we did not want someone else to have the same problems. So we were not trying to offload it with a mortgage as you claim. I'm not sure the exact date it was advertised as the board is now closed but believe it was the begining of September. It was certainly not November. It was not until November that we discovered Seaterra had failed to try and de-register the mortgages and the involvement of these possible sister companies and this is when we became suspicious.

doughnuts40


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 98

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 20:29

Hi Steviemac, the information re mortgage came directly from Seaterra. A good friend of mine has purchased there. They asked the question and they got the answer. This thread is aboout Seaterra not Aga Developments which was an absolute disgrace, but then so was/is the owner gary robb! However, there is a difference between that crook and Seaterra. As I have said they are still around and helping their clients and have four completed sites. Trial by Forum can be very dangerous and misleading. Seaterra have the assets to cover the loan which is more than can be said for others. As for Brad & Sibel they seem to be on a personal crusade. If they did their figures they would also see the loan is more than covered. The site is finished, connected to amenties and there is enough collateral in the site to cover the debt.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 20:46

Oh what a wicked web we weave. Those that accuse others of posting under other names should get their own houses in order.

AJ

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 21:00

Yes Sibel I do believe you may have advertised it before November but you definately advertised or readvertised your property for sale with 'an incumbrance' on November 18th 2008 and then on 23rd November 2008 you offered a £1,000 cash sum to anyone that could sell it for you !..... so if you discovered in November your suspicions about ST then why were you trying to sell your apartment and therefore a tad hypocritical. !!

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 21:07

well said doughnuts40 exactly the point



you have to work with what is now not set out to destroy their reputation - what happened to working with someone to resolving the issues



there are two sides to most stories and not all have told all see my message 78



by all means stand on the moral high ground but please make sure you are whiter than whiter yourself first before casting aspersions

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 21:20

Mmmmmmmmm interesting messege 77

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 21:21

Mmmmmmmmm interesting messege 77

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 21:28

Sienna - We thought it was earlier than that, but if you say those dates then you must be correct. As we said, we believed that Seaterra would honour their obligations at that point. We were still asking Seaterra for information in November about the mortgages, and as they had promised to try and de-register them when the site was completed and final payments received we still believed that they would honour their obligations. It was on 27th November that we received an email from Seaterra with specific confirmation that the mortgages hadn't been de-registered, so it was not until this point that we realized there was a problem with the mortgages. As I said, we have confirmation in writing that we were unwilling to sell to an interested party until the site was complete and we knew the mortgages were de-registered.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 21:31

Doughnuts40 - I sincerely hope that Seaterra have paid off a large amount of the mortgage. The only way to confirm is to do a search at land registry, which our lawyer did recently and showed all mortgages still in situ. And of course this also doesn't take into account the interest payments and considering there are possibly 4 sister/umbrella/pheonix companies involved any amount could have been agreed.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 21:47

so four days later Sibel you knew emphatically you would morally not sell so why didn't you come back on the owners forum and declare that then ?! can you see how this looks a little bit contradictory 4 days after you offered people a £1,000 to sell your property you found an interested aprty and then put them off buying it thats was quick !



Also around about that time one of the owner was trying to get a committee off the ground as they had done earlier you have not once stated you wanted to be part of that group as an interested owner



But then if you are a member of the HBPG I suppose you are a busy lady !

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 22:02

Sienna - the interested party was prior to this. When Seaterra asked for final payments in October, we believed that they would have de-registered the mortgages as promised when final payments were received and therfore we thought the mortgages would be cleared so we could sell it, we had no reason to believe otherwise at that point. It wasn't until 27th November that we knew this wasn't the case. As you know, I have only viewed and posted on the Seaterra boards a few times because we weren't going to live or get involved in it, it was just an investment, so I was not aware of any comittee.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 22:08

so if oyu had an interested party prior to this why were you advertising it for sale on the 18th November with a cash reward for doing so on 23rd that does not make any sense sorry but I am confused that doesnt answer the query



Ah I see an investment that has gone wrong and a muddle up with your dates - no interest in the actual site I see I am with you now !?

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 22:19

Yes, as I said, we had an interested party prior to this and we informed them that we wouldn't sell to until the site was complete to avoid any problems. Until Seaterra asked for final payments we still believed at that point their promises that the final payments would be used to pay off the mortgages and they would honour their promises regarding de-registering the mortgages. We had no reason to believe otherwise and so we advertised if for sale. When Seaterra asked us for final payment, we assumed they were honouring their obligations and informed the previous interested party it would now be available. When we didn't hear back, we advertised it for sale on the Seaterra board, still believing that Seaterra would honour their obligations because we had no reason to believe otherwise at that point. Does this answer your questions?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 22:47

Sienna....how many times does Sibel have to explain her actions to you in this matter?



Irrespective of the time frame she has ended up doing the right thing.



Instead of criticising HER you should join in the condemnation of the real villains of this piece.



I sincerely hope that there is a positive outcome for everyone on the Seaterra developments and that the mortgages are lifted,but if not,and the worst comes to the worst,then I would hope that you would have the decency to offer Sibel a full and frank apology on this BB.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 22:56

Doughnuts...msg 63.



As much as I can understand your simplification of the maths involved on this site regarding asset values ie there are 60 unsold apartments at £60K each = £3.6 million....which far exceeds the £2 million in mortgages.....this is only of some consequence if THESE particular properties are actually mortgaged !



If they are not , or indeed they are but with a different bank/financial institution,then they cannot be seized if Seaterra defaulted on their £2 million loans.



So in theory you could end up in the situation where ST default....the financiers seek recompense from YOU,the homeowner...and ST still carry on merrily with the 60 unsold properties that are not mortgaged !



Sounds far-fetched...but it's food for thought.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 23:01

cronos you stated





I sincerely hope that there is a positive outcome for everyone on the Seaterra developments



We on the Marina do not have any mortgages or any loans etc Fact !!!!!!!

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 23:08

Cronos yes but I was asked a question as to why I was questioning issues so I am answering. It certainly does matter about the time frame because then the whole thing that Sibel claims does not make sense one bit! you can dismiss the tim eframe in your mind because you have decided that she is right in what she has done



The fact remains Sibel was trying to sell their apartment in November with an incumbrance that makes them as bad as the people they are condeming so NO I will not be apologising to Sibel because what would I be apologising for I am not saying anythign that is untrue or moving dates around to wriggle out of things !



all I am saying is the dats do not add up they were desperate to sell it on that was clear it didnt work out so they are trying to get their money back a different way - IMO you see it one way I see it another

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 23:17

sibel message no 87 your dates and times for prospective interested parties and trying to sell the property off does not make any sense

but never mind I have my view you have yours



Lets hope it resolves itself so you can sell and the owners can live happily ever after on their site !

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 23:18

cronos,



I don't know how well you know south cyprus, but what did you think of the aricle in the "cyprus mail" about 30,000 waiting in vain for deeds in the roc?



apparently what we know as mortgages in north cyprus,

are called developer loans south of the line and are also loans against property

this practice, the norm in the south, means buyers will never get ownership

and I trust you are as equally concerned about lapses in this "other" cyprus



the whole practice is quite wrong and should be stamped out everywhere

it is hardly any excuse that developers are so very loth to use their own cash



with the talks running on empty it is something both cypruses badly need

to sort out themselves, while their destinies diverge as the years roll by

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
07/04/2009 00:23

Andre....why do you continue to defend what's happening in the TRNC simply by pointing out that similar problems exist in the RoC and elsewhere ?



Just because somewhere else is as bad or worse doesn't make it right !



Just to clarify for you....



I am not interested in the RoC property issues



I do not like the place.

I never considered buying property there.

I prefer NC and its people....that is why I bought here.



BUT....that doesn't mean that I cannot criticise a system stacked heavily against foreign purchasers such as myself.



Have I made myself clear?



Although it suits your agenda , particularly when losing an argument , to suggest that critics of the TRNC property market must be GC sympathisers/agitators ,it is simply not true in my case, and this diversionary tactic is becoming tiresome and predictable.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
07/04/2009 12:15

how was I defending "what happens in the trnc"?



you must agree the reserve is a stunninhg site however!



I don't know if the system is stacked against foreign purchasers since the majority are turkish anyway while in turkey things are even more complicated

according to a recent mailing by erkan/ukturk...

buying any property overseas is fraught with difficulty even in france:

"caveat emptor"



comparison with south cyprus is important because you need to see a context

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
07/04/2009 13:22

Sienna – I’m not sure how many times I can answer the same question, but I’ll repeat the information a final time. Seaterra stated in person and via our lawyer that they were going to use the final payments at site completion to de-register the mortgages. They also signed an additional contract to that effect. At that point we had no reason to believe they would breach this. In June 2008 we informed in writing an interested party in our apartment that we would not sell until the site was complete to safeguard against any problems because the mortgages would have been de-registered at completion.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
07/04/2009 13:23

When Seaterra asked for final payments on July 11th 2008 we still believed that they would use them, as promised, to de-register the mortgages so when we advertised the villa for sale, we did so believing they would fulfil their promises and contract and the site would be free from mortgages. I thought we advertised it in Sept 2008 (the board is closed so I can’t be sure, it may have been only in November) because, according to their promises and contract, this would have given plenty of time for them to collect final payments and de-register mortgages. You say it was November 18th and 23rd 2008 when we were advertising the villa for sale, and either way (Sept or Nov) we waited until then because both dates gave Seaterra plenty of time to honour their contract.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
07/04/2009 13:23

Seaterra did not send an email until 27th November confirming that in fact they hadn’t de-registered the mortgages (and the involvement of 4 possible sister companies) thereby breaching the second contract as well. After that we repeatedly requested further information regarding these mortgages, but they refused to answer. As I said many times, it was not until this point that we realized that there was actually a problem with the mortgages, that they had not tried to de-register them, and appeared to have no intention of doing so. We also asked them why they couldn’t move the mortgages to the unsold properties, however they failed to answer.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
07/04/2009 13:24

The bottom line is that we then realized we had been deceived. At least with this exposure Seaterra have said they will issue a letter of exclusion. Before the exposure, they refused to give any such thing or move the mortgages to the unsold properties. Let’s hope purchasers do get a legally binding letter that excludes them, which is 100% protection, but they do seem to be dragging their heels.

Inca999


Joined: 25/11/2007
Posts: 20

Message Posted:
26/04/2009 00:30

And Still the owners wait for the Elusive letter of Exclusion !