British Pakistanis an asset?

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 16:15

What with sky news devoting a week of reporting live from Pakistan where public executions are frequently conducted by the Taliban,sharia law is in force in certain areas, where 9 of of 10 people have direct links to UK.

Do you think that British pakistanis are or will be an asset to the UK in the future and are welcomed with open arms.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 16:26

Hmm this has the potential to open up a can of worms.. on a "TRNC" forum!?!



If they are law biding British, YES, they should be welcomed ... In the same way WE might be welcomed in Cyprus !

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 16:32

I agree with 6m's on this.........about the worms.

Aslan


Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 757

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 16:39

Probably worth buying shares in a well known fertilizer producer!! (for the worms that is) LOL

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 16:46

It's funny isn't it, never used to see any when I was younger, now I have a family of approx 25 living in a plant pot outside.................Worms of course!

Aslan


Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 757

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 16:52

I need a designer for turbans and other traditional English clothing in the style and theme of the St George flag in preparation for the April 23rd celebrations!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 17:02

Anyone who works, pays taxes and is law abiding is an asset to the UK.

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 17:03

Aslan, will you be playing traditional English Bollywood style music at the celebrations?

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 17:05

if you are making comments about the British Pakistanis who have been trained by Al quieda in Pakistan,then no theywill not be an asset to this country .In fact if they should be rounded up and if it can be proved with out a doubt that they are sleeping terrorist cells they should be charged with treason and tried accordingly.If they are not British Citizens they should be deported without trial.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 17:06

Aslan, since when has a turban been an item of traditional English clothing?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 17:06

Britains of Pakistani descent make up about 1.3% of the British population. As a community they have contributed greatly economicaly and culturaly to the UK and no doubt will continue to do so.



In my view it should also not be forgotten that much of Britains relative wealth, even today, has it's roots in the British colonial ownership of what is today Pakistan.



It is my opinion that a UK without its citizens of Pakistani descent would be a poorer place in every sense of the word.

Aslan


Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 757

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 17:08

Me, me mum, me dad and me gran are of to waterloo, Me , me mum, me dad and me gran for a bucket of vindaloo!!!



Best of British spilt me vindaloo and ended up with "Three limes on me shirt"

Aslan


Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 757

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 17:10

No1 English humour please

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 18:09

Ref message 2,free speech my boy a good old British tradition as you allways express yourself.

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 18:54

Ref MSG 11, Erolz how are you today,you seem very knowledgeable, when was the last time you visited the UK.

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 19:17

The tenticals of the radical element are well entrenchched in the Uk Pakistani community. The initial influx of immigrants from India and Pakistan came to the Uk to improve their lives, credit to them they worked hard and intigrated.

Things have changed no longer are their communites willing to live by the rules of the land that welcomed them, Sharia law, funeral pires, Islamic schools are a few examples that show integration is on the back foot. We've had 7/7 and the tube bombings, the goverment is trying to prepare the British people for the next terrorist event from radical Islam, an event which I think will not be long in coming this will further alienate ethnic communities to a point where civil disobedience will no doubt lead to the rivers of blood Enoch Powell warned us about, just pleased I'm well out of the UK.



D.N

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 20:37

RE msg 16, Dixie_Normus > just pleased I'm well out of the UK. <



===> Oh, oh. "Hoppi" is jumping for joy to chastise you! You, Dixie, being British, and saying this!! When you're Dutch and you dare say that the weather is sometimes foul in the UK - that's enough for "Hoppi" to call you "Britophobic"... And now YOU!!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 20:53

For ErolZ, and others re msg 15



http://www.statistics.gov.uk/focuson/ethnicity/



Tell us KellyBelly - what has changed... ?

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 21:00

REF MSG 2,3.Will you please elaborate with regard to open up a can of worms especially on a TRNC website. Dont be shy or wimpish.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 21:18

re msg 19 KellyBelly,



sure, happy to answer your question - hope you'll oblige, too !



The "can of worms" - racial stereotyping .. I read your post about the protesters in Luton.. Whilst I don't agree with them / nor their slogans, I'm GLAD that they could protest ..



When *I've* lived abroad, I've done things that aren't the "norm" in the society I lived in and tried to do it discreetly.. hardy something many Brits abroad do.



If we as a nation were "perfect" when living abroad, I don't think I'd be so "uncomfortable".



I see Russians picking on Georgians, GCs picking on Pontians and TCs bemoaning Antolian Settlers... Most of it is ignorance..



How many of us can say we speak fluent Turkish or Greek and have become Muslim or Greek Orthodox having lived in Cyprus ?



I just KNEW we'd get the "told you so"... "Rivers of Blood" Enoch Powell sound byte..



Your turn !

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 22:07

Its interesting to note that Mohammed is the second most popular boys name in the uk second only to Jack.



But stats say Mohammed will be No1 within 2 years.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 22:09

Hi Turtle, WHY do you think it is "interesting " ?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 22:26

Because as the muslims are a "minority" in the uk its interesting that the name is the most common.



I understand its a very popular name but never thought it was more popular than Jack or John or even Mark ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 22:30

Hi Turtle, re msg 23



You answered your own question ! .. SOoo many folk assume that this name means "we" are being "overrun" ..



As I thought, not much on topic on this one...

LancsLass


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 145

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 23:40

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd - Australia



Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..





Separately, Rudd angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:



'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '



'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'



'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'



'Most Austral

LancsLass


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 145

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 23:43

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'



'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'



'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'





'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be her

LancsLass


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 145

Message Posted:
25/03/2009 23:44

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 00:19

Hmm, re msg 26



I wonder did Mr Rudd's relatives played the Digerydo (sp ?), speak an aboriginal dialect and go walkabout..



If the Aboriginies had said "This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this"... would Mr Rudds's relatives have respected that and "moved on"..?



IF 300 years later ethnic Asian Muslims outnumbered Christians in the UK, then I guess - going by Oz - we couldn't complain ? ;)

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 948

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 01:32

Hi I am muslim and I live in the Uk,My first loyalty is to the country I reside in, and to respect the country that has allowed me to live in security and freedom,then follows my faith,there are many schools of thought and i belong to the shia ismaili of whom the Aga Khan is our leader,by the way he is invited to the g8 summit and he is no politition he is a direct decendent of prophet mohamed by lineal descent,and brings our faith to the 21st century,sadly the rest still are 1600 yrs behind thus the problems today,the aga khan network spends $500 million yr for the poor by education to help themselves out of poverty,as a matter of interest look up the internet type ismailis or Aga khan

[SAINT GAZETTE" 22-7-1898]



His Highness The Aga Khan - In the Reign of Queen Victoria.



Her Majesty Queen Victoria had held a Levy, which was attended by

Consuls of all countries, and His Highness the Aga Khan was also invited at this occasion.

When the Aga Khan went there, the Queen

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 948

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 01:33

[SAINT GAZETTE" 22-7-1898]



His Highness The Aga Khan - In the Reign of Queen Victoria.



Her Majesty Queen Victoria had held a Levy, which was attended by

Consuls of all countries, and His Highness the Aga Khan was also invited at this occasion.

When the Aga Khan went there, the Queen herself went to receive him at the door and welcomed him with great respects and made him sit on

the Throne of their Pope.



As soon as the Aga Khan sat on the Throne, the Queen said to all the Consuls,

"What is the reason of your surprise, and what are you thinking of."

The Consuls replied "Up to now, many Indian Kings have come to Europe but

you have given more honours to Aga Khan, and even made him sit on the Throne of our Pope, what is the reason of this?"

The Queen in reply said, "You are all wise and prudent and learned, and you know better than I reason of this."

"In short, I must tell you that we have never seen our religious leader Jesus Christ, and without doubt,

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 948

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 01:35

The Queen in reply said, "You are all wise and prudent and learned, and you know better than I reason of this."

"In short, I must tell you that we have never seen our religious leader Jesus Christ, and without doubt, the Aga Khan is our same leader, and considering this, I have made him sit on our Pope's Throne."



On hearing this, all Consuls were greatly surprised and wired to their

respective countries about the above fact. Consequently, the Rulers of France,Germany, Italy, Belgium etc

sent telegrams to Aga Khan from all over, requesting him to give them honour of visiting their countries, which the Aga Khan accepted."



Extract from:-----("SAINT GAZETTE" 22-7-1898)>

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 14:27

Lancslass, Good post shame the loony left, the PC brigaade, and the Labour party dont take a leaf out of Rudds book, may have saved Blighty from going down the pan.





D.N

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 14:37

Kellybelly msg 15



"when was the last time you visited the UK."



Jan 2008. Is the question relative to anything ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 14:44

re 34 ErolZ



Hopefully, Kellybelly can answer this, and respond to mine of msg 18..

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 14:46

Small correction to my msg 34 - its was Jan 2009, not 2008

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 15:25

re msg 36, ErolZ



Ah.. going by a certain poster here - asking if we'd live in the "south".. you are out of touch, mate ;)

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 16:01

msg 17-The Mad Crusader sticks his large proboscis in again.



I seemed to have missed the Mad Crusader's post obviously the bullsh.t alarm wasn't working on the laptop.

The difference my cheese eating friend is Dixe is British you are not he is allowed to be derogatory about his country of birth you by your nationality and your behaviour towards the saviors of your nation are not.

I suggest you abstain from this thread do something usefull like tending your tulips or sticking your finger in a leak.

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 18:21

REF MSG 20 6MS I think your were a little excited when posting,you ask me to reply to your question,but WHATS THE QUESTION ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 18:54

ref msg 39, Kelleybelly



"I think your were a little excited when posting,you ask me to reply to your question,but WHATS THE QUESTION ?"



My question is on the last line of msg 18, in response to your msg 15 - my apologies for not being absolutely clear. I reminded you in msg 35 ;)



Any comments re my response to your question msg 19 ? - ( my response is msg 20 ME Shy !? )



I note ErolZ has a question for you, too (msg 34)



Look forward to your replies..

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 20:45

6ms get over yourself,I've noticed you via your hundreds of posts take great delight in pulling other members posts to bits,clearly what you don't know is not worth knowing.

firstly what are you talking about,opening up a can of worms on a TRNC forum,im talking about disgruntled and radicalised British Pakistanis, are you infering a connection between them and Turkish Cypriots?

I am expressing my concerns about Pakistani extremists, which clearly exist in large numbers in the UK.If you or anyone else dispute my comment try arguing with the family's of the 52 victims of the London bombings in 2005.Im sure a forum exists which deals with victims of terror attacks.Surely 6ms a man of your intellect,and persistence would dominate any topic.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 21:16

Kellybelly msg 41



I was trying to follow Elkos good advice on this one and say my bit and leave it at that. I have failed.



"I am expressing my concerns about Pakistani extremists,"



In the original post your question was



"Do you think that British pakistanis are or will be an asset to the UK in the future and are welcomed with open arms."



See the difference ? This is part of the problem here - the easy transition from extremist to the entire community with little or no distinction between the two. There are extremist in all communites and when a given community shows itself to have more extremists than another that is not a reflection on that community being inherently more 'evil' or 'vicious' but a reflection of that community being subject to more forces that drive indivduals within it towards extremism. Labeling a whole community based on its extremists only is just such an example of the kind of force that drives increasing numbers towards extremism.

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
26/03/2009 22:18

HI EROLZ,

I respect your comments as you are entitled to your views as am i.

lets hope religious fanatics around the world can find peace.

PS.Just to point out i have no time for any religion,and am proud to call myself an atheist.Just look back through time to see what problems religion has caused.Peace to all members.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 00:53

its just a pity an ordinary person cannot say what the prime minister said in Aussie,when we live as we do in the UK.Such a statement is likely to result in arrest for behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace! What a shambolic Stalinist toilet we now live in.Everyone else's culture and opinion are always the ones we should respect,but never the other way around! Anyone would think we lived on a small Anglo-Saxon island off the coast of Western Europe!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 01:13

Dear KelleyBelly, re msg 42/43



I believe the "can of worms" I was referring to was precisely the point ErolZ made and you so politely answered ;) ..



Of COURSE, there was no inference in my post that TCs had any link ! I simply don't agree that the extremists DO exist in such large numbers and wish to point out that quite a number of arrests for terrorist offences are WHITE Anglos-Saxons ! Exeter / Bristol...



7/7 was horrific and IF you knew what you were talking about - you would know the source of info leading to most of the arrests came from the efforts of folk British born Muslims..in various capacities and the community.



Lastly your question was : "British Pakistanis an asset ? " ... That's a heck of a jump to : "I am expressing my concerns about Pakistani extremists, which clearly exist in large numbers in the UK" - Which is what I suspected - and not even TRUE!

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 01:27

I must say that our welcome of Pakistanis into the UK is in direct contrast to the acceptance of ANY foreign national in Swat province of Pakistan.They have adopted a law,which makes second rate citizens of any woman,brutality and execution a way of life,for anyone who even thinks a little differently from the Taliban!

It is to be hoped that such ways of life in Western Europe ,were left behind in Medieval times and that people who exthol the virtues of such,be put on a plane,one way,back to Islamabad.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 01:41

Dear Clarets, re msg 46



The "problem" is that some of these "foreigners" are BRITISH ! I DO understand Kellybelly's concerns.. it's just that she has exaggerated the numbers.



It is lack of understanding and knee-jerk reactions and generalisations that play right into the hands of the extremist who WANT us polarised... WHY fulfil their "dreams" ?

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 01:52

But that doesn't explain the facts that Sharia law has now been imposed in all of the at region,and everyone is subject to it.........or else! Medieval tribal feuds such as this have no place in 21 st Century Western Europe.....if they want to blow each other up.......fine.....let them get on with it !

There are ,however, a significant minority of imported and home grown terrorists especially in Northern England,and they have no part to play in democracy....they actually want to destroy it. My grandfather fought against the Nazi's......he would be turning in his grave at the thought of harbouring such people in OUR country!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 02:00

Dear Clarets, re 48



"a significant minority" is a foxy way to imply quite a lot... the trick is NOT to marginalise the majority..



The British did this in N.Ireland .. The Troops were made cups of tea by BOTH sides when they were sent in..

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 02:07

That is ,my friend, a bridge too far.......there is no analogous situation between NI and Islamic imports,who wish to destroy OUR way of life,and make women second class citizens!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 10:35

Clarets re msg 50



"there is no analogous situation between NI and Islamic imports,who wish to destroy OUR way of life"



Disagree



1/ There is a positive correlation between recruitment following the negative reaction of uneducated bigots to the terrorist actions carried out by a minority .



When the British started interment - recruitment to Irish Nationalist organisation and tacit support for the cause SKY-rocketed. Certain Irish Nationalists have proved they STILL wish to destroy what most people would refer to as normality .. the status quo.



2/ YES, I find the fact that women APPEAR to be mere chattels appalling. But you make it sound like the attitude is common - there are lost of second and third generation ethnic Pakistani women who feel just like you.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 11:55

Hi Mark,not certain I agree with the bigot sentiment....very little evidence! What I meant was there is no direct correlation between NI and Swat province/imports,as the majority of inhabitants of NI are protestant.....around 70%,I believe,and they are abiding by the referendum result and general democratic process.Nowt to do with bigotry!

However,ALL of the Swat province is under Sharia dictatorship,and NONE of the women ,under such medieval edict,will be anything other than modern day slaves,with no/very little rights.The Taliban want to infect the rest of Pakistan with this,and indeed the rest on the World,as they see the rest of us as Sub-human.Now I am not saying for a minute that ALL muslims are in any way the same as the Taliban,but in those areas of the world,where their name is LAW.......those places are worse for it,to put it mildly.

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 12:00

MSG 45. 6ms like i previously said,and once again get over yourself.I also repeat what you don't know is not worth knowing.You said i don't know what i talking about,well nobody would compared to you would they. You are obsessed with picking other members posts to bits,you have a very high opinion of yourself,and your own importance.

Your quote, if you knew what you were talking about, lets get one thing straight you have absolutely no idea what i know about the 7/7 incident,so be very careful what you presume.I expect you'll want the last word as usual.

Steve1953



Joined: 04/12/2008
Posts: 298

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 12:11

Dear Mark,I know where clarets is coming from - unless you've witnessed the events happening in east Lancashire from the early 1970's onwards,you would call me a racist.

Problem is/was most of the immigrants that came (legal and many illegal),did not know or like England and did not want to integrate. The politians of all colours,local and national turned blind eyes and took NIMBY tactics re their houses.

It has caused great hardships to the elderly white population but this has never been mentioned.Integration might take place in time,but a great deal of mistrust and seeds of doubt have been sowed by too many arriving too quickly. Sorry to be negative,but just honest - maybe it's the same in any person/people entering another country - but I would not impose my beliefs/culture/religion or language on the indigeneous population.Kind regards to all,Steve

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:42

Dear Steve, re msg 56



I have DIRECT experience as my youngest coz - from East Manchester - not the same area , I agree, is married to a third Generation Asian lady.



I'd say her family has integrated FAR more than Brits would / have in Cyprus !



"but I would not impose my beliefs/culture/religion or language on the indigeneous population"



- I believe you.. but most of us do JUST that..



How's your Cypriot Turkish / Greek ?! ;)



As my wife is non EU I'm VERY aware of the difficulty of bringing a non EU dependent into the UK, legally - believe me it is not easy - nor cheap - and the std policy seems to be to say NO, and force an appeal taking months and more cost.



It's only when you live and work abroad, that you begin to see things from both sides...



Like I said, this thread has the real potential to "turn" racial and I STILL don't think the O.P. was honest in the question asked..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 14:51

Clarets , re msg 52



I need to clarify the " uneducated bigot" statement.. it was NOT aimed at you, Kelybelly or any contributor and I HUMBLY grovel if you she or anyone did take offence.



The number of Proddies in NI as a proportion is WAY less than 70%.. maybe approaching high fifties .. We are being out bred and LOTS of us left .. ;)



If current demographics continue, a vote for unification might one day succeed !



During the "troubles" the border was porous there was a lot of importing / exporting of trouble via Scotland and the south..



"Now I am not saying for a minute that ALL muslims are in any way the same as the Taliban,but in those areas of the world,where their name is LAW.......those places are worse for it,to put it mildly."



Good, and I agree, most UK based folk of ALL ethnicities don't want it , either...



This IS a "hot potato"

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 15:06

Dear Kellybelly re msg 53



KB: "MSG 45. 6ms like i previously said,and once again get over yourself.........,you have a very high opinion of yourself,and your own importance. "

Well thanks for you opinion of me, which hardly matters, I'm more interested in what you thought you would achieve with you posting a thinly disguised question with no relevance to Cyprus..



" lets get one thing straight you have absolutely no idea what i know about the 7/7 incident,so be very careful what you presume.I expect you'll want the last word as usual."



too right.. and thanks for proving you really don't know B all and shouldn't be privy to such info - even if you have partial access - and tell us about it... :(



You aren't the only family with folk serving...



Quit while you are behind..

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 15:39

MSG 59,6ms.If i could afford the wood id have your mouth boarded up.PS i don't need to prove anything to you, and by the way don't bring my family into your arrogant posts.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 16:03

This debate is getting quite heated , some members are getting quite personal in their posts , in order for this thread to continue , please remember rule 3

Simbas

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 16:08

Thank you Simbas,i respect your reminder of rule 3.

kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 16:13

Simbas, I understand what you say, nevertheless where is the particular warning to the character calling himself mmmmmm? His obsessional posts are designed to wind people up, and occasionally he succeeds. Most of us ignore most of his repetitive drivel, but sometimes people are driven to respond accordingly. When they do, that is as a result of his actions.

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 16:36

Kaiserphill,your MSG 63.You hit the nail on the head,its a bit much 6ms trying to wind me up about my children and other family serving in the British army.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 16:49

Dear Kaiserphil re 63



I took Simbas warning to apply to me, too - was I mistaken?

kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 17:07

Dear Marky-Mark - now that you mention it you may be right, although I didn't read it that way at first.

'Management' of various boards generally seem to disregard your behaviour, although you have been 'barred' from some boards on occasion. (I can't think why you should think it reasonable behaviour, when you are banned, to rejoin under another soubriquet, though that criticism could be applied to some other members).

My point was that some people start to get heated as a result of your postings, which is, of course, your intention.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 18:10

Dear Kaiserphil, re msg 66



1/ I've NEVER conned my way onto any board, by hiding my id and ALWAYS posted as MM.. I', only mmmmmm here due to the six character minimum



2/ YES I've been banned / moderated in the past from a couple of MSN boards, a phpnow one, and a proboard one, but am I banned / moderated , now.. ?



3/ Can you remember WHY I was moderated / banned? ..from the MSN boards.. I was going on about AGA.. Those that wanted me banned - some of 'em are in regular contact with me and we've met - was I wrong ?



4/ I asked if I could post here. As I didn't wish to be banned and saw no reason to change my beliefs..



5/ IF you had bothered to check, *I* didn't start this thread, and I regard it as "well dodgy" and not even intrinsically honest in it's intention..



6/ I'm well aware that I'm tolerated here and in the "minority"... YES, I'm "sparring" with some posters... I might even have shared a bottle of wine or a beer with them .. some even "foolishly" admit it .

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 19:13

6MS ref 63,66,and your post 67,the truth about you as a person is revealed.You said you are tolerated on this forum,well i can tell you if you ever disrespect my family again like you did in your post 59 you wont be tolerated by me, i promise you wont be able to hide behind a keyboard.fact.

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 19:19

if they are British, they should be treated the same as everyboddy else! You cannot disccriminate your citizens because of their nationality.



There are many Pakistani owned businesses in the UK, and so contribute to the UK economy, no mattter how little it is. They still contribute, and pay their taxes like everybody else.



That question is like asking yourself "are TRNC British citizens an asset"?

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 19:22

SKYNEWS is one of the main brainwashing news channels, just after fox and CNN.

If you have the idea that all pakistanis are affiliated with the taliban, then it shows that SKY NEWS has an effective propaganda.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 19:29

Debateable whether they all pay their taxes and NI. back here in Stoke-On Trent they are in the local paper every night about them drawing social and driving taxis all night and not declaring their "wages".They all work for Pakistani companies and they pay them cash in hand..Same as the Chinese waiters ,all illegal immigrants,but they are catching them very steadily..

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 19:39

there are no packistainies in the uk the object to beeing called PAKIS and insist on being called ASIANS.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 20:12

Dear Kelleybelly, re msg 68





Could you point out how any of my posts are "disrespecting" your family?





It seems you are very easily influenced by a few extreme "British" Asians .. precisely what they want...

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
27/03/2009 22:09

It is always fascinating how so many leftists defend, protect, and even condone islamic fundamentalism. To make things even more ironic, always at the expense of women’s rights (the very movement that they have historically stood behind).



Muslim Council of Britain so often stands for everything social democrats are against. Nevertheless they gave its former leader a knighthood even though he had said that "death was too good" for Salman Rushdie.

I believe, radical Islam (far more than other radical groups) does worry Europeans. But contrary to their position toward other extremists they always blame themselvs, in the hope that the admission of guilt will pacify the radicals.



N.B. I am not calling anyone here leftist, I rather mean people like Ken Livingstone, George Galloway...

craig2536


Joined: 09/06/2007
Posts: 277

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 08:31

How do you emigrate to Australia

Steve1953



Joined: 04/12/2008
Posts: 298

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 10:20

Dear Mark,mess 57.

Take your point mate,its how you find things - different perspectives and so on. I work with many asian people in Preston - lovely educated people,and integrate and add value to the UK. Unfortunately in places like Burnley and Keighley many are ignorant,carry knives and peddle drugs - they are like the white low life of the same calibre.The asian men can drink and carry on in pubs whilst their women remain at home. Just stating how it is - but in UK now I'm not allowed to say this even though its true. Maybe thats why there is so much resentment - because blind eyes from politians do not help the situation.

You are right on the brits abroad - most are lazy and dont learn the lingo,but if I were to live in Cyprus I think I would try and mix more - only way you can find out about the history and culture of the place.

I think the personal knocks on here are poor ,Mark- everyone is entitled to their opinion ,and dont be distracted by opinions of some,kind regards

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 11:01

Hi Steve, re msg 76



and I took yours, too ! Good to chew the fat..



Totally agree that there are bad apples in every barrel - shouldn't tar a nation / ethnic grouping.



Take care



Mark

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 11:49

The reality of the situation is this, it's all a numbers game, and when the Asian numbers finally win, which at the rate they are breading will be within a few generations, I would like to bet everything I own that when that happens the Asians will not treat the then minority of Britain with the same courtesy, (IE) welfare, they will treat the Infidels (non Muslims) like dogs, they are already teaching them to hate Britain and all it stands for in the mosques and Islamic schools in Britain, MI5 know they are swimming in treacle trying to keep a grip on this situation as they are now starting to admit it, in short it's all gone horribly wrong, now cue the lefty PC idiots that have helped get us into this mess.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 12:10

re 78, Tattlad,



IF *I* am a loony left PC, then you would be a Daily Mail reader ;)



What is the "mess"?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 13:15

tattlad msg 78



"The reality of the situation is this, it's all a numbers game, and when the Asian numbers finally win, which at the rate they are breading will be within a few generations,"



Actually tattlad this is sheer nonsense. Even at the current population growth rates for British Citizens of Asian descent vs those not of Asian descent it would take centuries for 'asians' to be numericaly dominant. And that would assume that the rates stay the same over these centuries and that there was no cultural mixing over these many centuries.



Sometimes the people on this forum scare me !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 13:53

re msg 80, ERolZ.



thanks.. I was beginning to think I was even on the "minority" on this one...



"Sometimes the people on this forum scare me !"



"they" are as bad as the folk who got 'em "wound up" - and reacting EXACTLY as they want... as sort of "self fulfilling prophesy" ? ;)



Come on peeps..

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 14:14

Sometimes the people on this forum scare me !





BINGO........

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 17:19

To answer the asset and welcome question Kellybelly asked, 30 years ago the asian community could have been deemed an asset and welcomed for the what they contributed to the UK and the way they accepted our way of life.

Now my personal view is they are a threat to our way of life, a threat to our saftey and a threat to future generations due to the changes that have been made to our society to accommodate their ways. I dont belive we should be making them welcome any longer. Labours policy regarding immigration is a well known fiasco, the damge will not repair easy, shame the Australian system as'nt introduced in the 1980s.



D.N

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 18:25

Dixie.....a very common-sense approach.Shame the idiots in Westminster dont have any!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 18:33

Dixie Normus msg 84



" I dont belive we should be making them welcome any longer."



I do not really understand what you mean re 'making them welcome' if by them you mean people from asia. What do you think the UK does to 'make them welcome' ?



Could you be a bit clearer on who 'them' is ? Anyone not born to british parents for 3 generations or 4 generations or 20 generations ? People from asia ? Muslims ? Africans ? Muslim Africans? French ? New Zealanders ? Who exactly is it that you think threatens the UK so much ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 18:47

Dear DN, re 84



IF you had non EU members in your family you would realise how DAFT the comment " Labours policy regarding immigration is a well known fiasco, the damge will not repair easy, shame the Australian system as'nt introduced in the 1980s." sounds.. it's REALLY hard to get relations in, and it ain't cheap. They have bugger all rights and the UK citizen "bringing them in" REALLY has their finances examined - no recourse to public funds. etc.



IF anyone who feels different cares to check, you'll see one can't bring in more than one wife, btw ;)



Both parties are planning REALLY draconian measures, but would do FAR better to concentrate on the illegal Visa over-stayers and workers



I'm not a Labour supporter - the Tories - with whom I have traditionally felt a stronger affiliation - have also repeatedly announced amnesties for over stayers and asylum seekers.



WHO are "they" and how do "we" go about "sending back 2nd or 3rd generation families who have committed no c

LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 19:19

You can forget the useless tories fixing anything. When brown goes as he will what the UK needs is someone like rudd, failing that At least we have Nick Griffin the leader of the fastest growing political party in the UK at present ,the BNP. Watch the June euro elections and see the BNP get the biggest percentage upswing in 20 years. At last the brits are waking up and not before time.

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 19:26

Erolz, Recent Goverment policy has changed (points system) benifits ect, so even gormless Gordon accepts a problem exists. The welcome in the earlier days was that no policy existed to stop a mass influx this was taken advantage of, and is why discontent in many areas of the UK exists today. Although I believe, as I lived among a large Aisian community many Uk nationals including Asians were against the open door policy the Labour goverment adopted. Among the many Asian, African and other economic migrants that have entered the UK via asylum or illegal means in the last 5 to 10 years, a proportion of those are not in the UK for its benefit, they are in the UK to take what they can, change what they can and in some extreme cases destroy everything they can, its is those people and the communities that promote and live among these silent assasins that must be seen as a threat.

We have seen the sword of terrorism raised by British born Asians, is that not a threat.



D.N

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 19:42

Hi MMMMM, I respect many of your informative posts I have no personal experience of entering the UK as a non EU, so I can only accept your view and agree with the illegal element being persued. As for 2nd & 3 rd generation if your illegal, your children/ grandchildren should also be deemed so and treated as such. Hard as it would appear to be, the softly, softly approach has only added to the problem.



D.N

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
28/03/2009 22:31

cYLAD ..I accept that there are white folk out there cheating the system but most of them have paid in a damned site more than the asin community.You would be hard pushed to find a white cab driver inthis town.Like Dixie says they are a definite threat to the western world and the quicker people wake up to that the better off we will all be.If we go to their countrydo we get special laws to protect us ,do we hell and if we started shouting and bawling and insulting their troops,their police would knock you senseless in a flash.I am a great believer in that any one who comes to live here accepts the laws and rules of this country without any special treatment.If I had been caught doing what those imbeciles were doing I would have been arrested and charged by the police.In fact two blokes who were giving them some verbal were arrested and charged.People who stand up and preach hatred against this country should be deported to their country of origin not birth. that includes all europeans

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 00:50

The 'little (island) england' mentality wrapped up in language and tone of bigoted racists as supremely exemplifed by a FEW indivduals on this thread. The thread itself is insidous and mala fide but in a way at least it has succeeded in bringing out the true colours of some individuals whilst others have been on the list of those holding unsavoury opinions. There are some in these category of people who have apparently claimed to have been involved in the aparthied movement: at least it is now clear on which side of that great struggle!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 07:23

Dixie Normus msg 89



"The welcome in the earlier days was that no policy existed to stop a mass influx this was taken advantage of, [snip] the open door policy the Labour goverment adopted."



The UK has always had restrictions on immigration. It has never had an open door policy.



" Among the many Asian, African and other economic migrants that have entered the UK via asylum or illegal means in the last 5 to 10 years,"



The UK has a legal obligation to accept legitimate asylum seekrs and quite rightly so. Like all 'first world' nations it has strict polices on granting asylum (the majority of the worlds asylum seekers are absorbed by the less developed nations of the world btw).



Illegal immigrants WHEREVER they come from should be persued and ejected from the country.



My main 'problem' is still this easy transition from 'illegal immigrants' and 'terrorists' to the entire British Asian community.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 07:30

In my view the real problem is not 'race' but economics. Whilst you maintain within states , regions and globaly a system of 'haves' and 'have nots' with such vast chasms between them you create instability. Immigration controls is not so much about protecting some idealised view of 'Britishness' complete with morris dancing, warm beer and watching cricket on the village green, as it is about ensuring that those that 'have' will continue to 'have' and those that 'have not' will continue to 'have not'.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 13:16

fred8..I am not Racist.You seemtothink that anyone who wants to see his country safe and secure from an ever increasing threat is a racist.All I have said is that any one who comesto live here should not expect any form of preferential treatment,which the asian and african communities do get.An asian can call me white scum or english trash and I have no redress under the Race relations act ,but the moment I call one of them paki or nigger I am prosecuted,That in my eyes is special tretment.You seem to get apartheid mixed up religious fanatacism.The african black people wanted their country to be equal to all. the muslims want to take overthe world and exterminate every infidel onits surface,that is their doctrine.But being the "bigoted racist" that you seem to think I am,I hope it never comes true in your lifetime.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 13:58

Coachie msg 95



"An asian can call me white scum or english trash and I have no redress under the Race relations act"



The race relations act and the various ammendments to it make no distinction about race or nationality. It criminalises "discrimination on the grounds of race, colour, nationality, ethnic and national origin in the fields of employment, the provision of goods and services, education and public functions". It applies equaly to discrimination against English people as by them.



"the muslims want to take overthe world and exterminate every infidel onits surface,that is their doctrine."



An inherently distorted view of 'muslims' imo. If you want a real view on who has already 'taken over the world' then look at the list of G8 countires. Not many muslims there.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 14:37

Erolz..How or when did you last see a case of a white person taking a coloured person to court under the race act.It would probably make national headlines on the tv and in the press and I have not seen any yet.



It is not an inherently distorted view but a fact you do not want to believe.Any Imam worth his position will tellyou that.WE christians are "infidels"(non-believers) and should not be on this earth.Ask the Iranian President his opinions on the matter..Probably get the same answer comung from a man who says the holocaust didnt happen.The Muslims have declared a Jihad against the west and under their teachings they are expected to kill at least one infidel to preserve their place in heaven. this is supposed to be in the name of their "god".My god does not tell me to do that.You do not see our church officials preaching death and destruction to the Muslims do you.You are a bit like the other guy and if you take of your coloured glasses you will see the real world outside..

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 15:04

Coachie msg 97



"Erolz..How or when did you last see a case of a white person taking a coloured person to court under the race act.It would probably make national headlines on the tv and in the press and I have not seen any yet. "



The vast majority of prosecutions under the sex discrimination acts have been cases of discrimination against women. This does not mean that the acts give 'preferential treatment' to women. It just means much more discrimination applies to women than men.



"Any Imam worth his position will tellyou that.WE christians are "infidels"(non-believers) and should not be on this earth."



For every Iman that preaches intollerance, hatred, jihad and the wiping of infidels from the face of the earth I can show you 20 that do not.



"My god does not tell me to do that.You do not see our church officials preaching death and destruction to the Muslims do you."



Your god may not tell you that but there are christain extremists

[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 15:09

groups that believe their christian god does tell them such things.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism



http://www.skepticism.info/quotes/archives/christian_extremism_index.shtml



However I would never characterise all Christians by the example of such extremists ones.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 15:32

Yes you my well show 20 whodo not,but it is the one who does who has the most listeners..

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
29/03/2009 23:36

Caochie - another reason that you may not have so many non-whites bringing cases under the race relation act may be whites do not suffer racism to the exten coloured people do. Not everything in life is so black and white!!!!

Secondly. Such lumping of all as "the muslims want to take overthe world and exterminate every infidel onits surface,that is their doctrine." has got us where we are in this self fulfilling prophesy of 'clash of civislsation'. As erols for every 1 extremist amongst us there are 20 who are not - I would say for every one extremist there are may be be over 100000 who are law abiding citizens contributing to the good of society. I would also add the small minority of radicalised individuals they are so because of humiliation,expliotation and degradition by the west (in the widst sence). If you look up the judgement in the 7/7 case the criminals were influenced by Israeli barbarity in Palsetine, Indian rape and pillage in kashimir, senseles civilian deaths Afg

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
30/03/2009 11:55

You got it pretty much spot on DN, if you asked all the lefty PC brigade if they would like some Islamic extremist living in their house with them and risk getting blown up you wouldn't find them so accommodating then, well expand on the house bit, I class the whole of the UK as my home, and would not welcome those sorts of people in it, Transfer the situation to NC, the government here wouldn't stand for it for a second, and rightly so, the lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum (UK) the PC lot will not be happy until they have totally dismantled and destroyed the last fabric of Britishness.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
30/03/2009 14:08

So you 2 would welcome with open arms people who believe murder and destruction the norm.Seen the newa this morning have you,they do not respect the law in their OWN country when they can Kill innocent people an Muslims at that.When did you ever see A Muslim family turn in a member ot their family who they new to be partaking in terrorist activities.?They say Blood is thicker than water ,in their case its thicker than mollasses. they do want to take over the world .It is the fastest growing religion on the planet and their leaders preaching is one of war and death to the infidels.They rule their own countries population by fear and torture and they want to do the same to the rest of us.If you 2 want that ,fine,just do not expect me to subscribe to your exploitation theories. Good bye...

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
30/03/2009 16:03

"the criminals were influenced by Israeli barbarity in Palsetine, Indian rape and pillage in kashimir, senseles civilian deaths Afg"



Yeah, and rapists were sexually abused in childhood...



Your arguments resemble populistic debates "Are rapists totaly to blame?" There is always one saying: "I blame society!!!"

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/03/2009 19:02

Hi Magbs, re msg 104



*I* think I tend to agree with Fred8.. moderate, peaceable folk can become another man's "terrorist" when they witness / experience an injustice or violent act.



Example: Very moderate GC - member of pro rapproachment party in Nicosia - kicked out of family home on night in 63 by TC gang...



21 years later fighting right wing GC thugs ( EOKA B and Greek army) badly maimed



Two weeks later, barely survives recovering injuries when temporary hospital is overrun by TR army ethnically cleansing all GCs irrespective of beliefs..



Now, VERY anti Turk.. yet NOT TC..



A simple example, but I could have used the lads of housing estates in Belfast , etc. who got recruited when the British tried to ensure a drop in violence by removing terrorists without trial, and unwittingly - recruitment SOARED :(



I wonder how many "moderate" Arabs dislike for Israel intensified... TR - Israeli relations took a nose-dive..

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
30/03/2009 21:40

Maqbs - before bringing out inherent prejudices please read carefully the message before commenting - it is not I saying but the judge at the trial of the 7/7 culprits. So much for 'populistic debates'. You may also note that the so called 'populistic debate' has been noted by the Obama administration and the EC and high on the agenda are: a solution in Kashmir, a change of strategy in Afghanistan with an emphasis on endeavors to limit civilian causlties and more resources for development, and of of course Israel-even there changes are in the pipeline. But above all by reaching out to the muslim world directly in his first days in office it was exactly in contrast to the Bush years and some of the views expressed on this thread wrapped up in the enoch powel era of the 1960's

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
30/03/2009 21:52

And the MUslim world will think they have won,Obama willonly end up with egg on his face and his hand bitten off..

kellybelly


Joined: 08/03/2009
Posts: 263

Message Posted:
30/03/2009 23:29

Ive decided to come back to the board on this subject,however 6ms I'm not replying to any of your nonsense you've had your say so shut up.The reason i started this thread is not because I'm a racist, on the contrary i have many friends and acquaints of all colours etc.I personally feel that the western world will never be at one with the east.OK i wont beat around the bush i mean Islam.So you as the reader might say what the hell,and i can understand that,in-fact i question myself on my own views at times.The thing is that like it or not the western world will without doubt be at odds with Islam.There are plenty of things i don't like about myself and the society we live in but personally I feel that Islam is not tolerant.I am not at all interested with religion,in-fact i am an atheist.

Yes lets try to sort thinks out,listen ill be friends with anyone,but what chance is there against extremism, which without a doubt, wont go away



Peace to the world and all members



Regards Pete

sajid


Joined: 26/03/2009
Posts: 2

Message Posted:
30/03/2009 23:34

yes they are because every muslim is not bad n which are become terrorist coz of america y america need to attack iraq because they saw oil there and nuclear weapons iraq have was a conspiracy n same he did in afghanistan.so i blame american because they hate muslim.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
30/03/2009 23:56

i dont think they hate muslims they hate terrorists and anyhing that will destroy ther securiy and sadly its all linked back to muslims. In the UK we have also had the bombings etc all traced back to muslims. We employ pakisanis all of course muslim who are ruled by Alia and so fearful of doing anything wrong. They are the most loyal people I have ever met and to them we are family. They hate what they see about extremists and hang thier heads in shame. I for one feel that pakistan is a force to be reconed with. All that is going on now and so close to afgahanstan. Our only hope that thier PM can calm the storms. Please God xxx

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 01:09

mmmmmm msg. 105



I also agree that peaceful citizen can become a terrorist but rarely without help from well organised existing terrorist network while their LEADERS need NO excuse for their martyrdom ideology, where life is expendable, and loss of ones life is desirable in pursuit of the cause.



Fred8, "not I saying but the judge at the trial of the 7/7 culprits"

I am afraid this is your wording, or more correctly what the bombers videotaped describing their reasons for becoming "martyrs". No doubt they believed what they said but don't you think they were brainwashed for a long time?



With all understanding, let's not get into the Stockholm syndrome.

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 09:20

Msg 111. Yes, I think i should have worded it differently. The judge acepted that these young peole were influenced by events far away or in your words 'brainwashed'

To put things into perspective, most of the the terrorist organisations active today in Afghanistan and in pakistan were put there by the Americans , British, saudia Arabia etc. These same people were paraded, long beards and turbans, before the whitehouse by president Reagan as the 'equivelent of the American founding fathers'. These are the same individuals that are now killing Pakistanis, . American and British.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 13:50

They were not put there by anyone.They went because they know the Pakistani govervnment will not do anything to them whilst they are trained as Terrorists.They kill as many Moslims as they doother religions to spread the word of fear not Allah.This has been proved by the three recent attacks by terrorists based in Pakistan.The Pakistani government have more faces than the Town hall clock.They show one face tothe Us so they can line their pockets with millions of dollars,another to India saying"we will find these people and punish them" any results yet.NO,and you probably wont see any Either.Theyare just untrustworthy...

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 14:14

Msg 113 - As I have already said to you on another thread caochie i have no time to give you any history lessons or educate you but you can stick to your 'populist views' if so desire but at aleast avoid confusing the issue by bringing into the debate street level arguments. But I shall do you one favour - read the testimony of the former Afghan Interior minister, Ali Jalali to the US ARMED FORCES COMMITTE.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 14:29

Fred 8 you are beginning to sound a lot like DC4 about my Educational Standards.I do not need any Historey Lessons or education from you or her so please refrain from those sort of statements. My street level facts are based on what I see Happening out there and reports and film on Tv and the newspapers,which according to your brigade are all ficticious.I have not had my PC long and I am still learning how to use it therefore I am not Privy to all this "factual" info you keep posting.



PS.MY NAMEON THIS BOARD IS....COACHIE..NOT CAOCHIE THANK YOU..

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 15:01

Well in there Coachie, Alot of these folk cant see the wood for the tree's, no doubt when the next terrorist act see 's Brits blown to pieces on the streets of London they'll be wanting to give radicals a special grant or want to send more money to a charity thats a front for an arms factory.Just get ready to press the"I told you so " button on the PC when it happens which will not be in the to distant future I believe.



D.N

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 15:16

Like i said before, you were spot DN, the original Asian immigrants were keen to integrate, but the generations that have been born in the UK are being taught to hate Britain, and for those blind PC lot that doubt it, I can show you a load of graffiti by the Bangladeshi's around an area in the City I was born in telling how much they hate Britain, and I've witnessed them hurling sexual abuse at middle aged white women who have the miss fortune to walk anywhere near them.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 17:02

DN..There is none so blind as them that cannot see.They probably will never see, until happens to them,and then they would come out with some ludicrous explanation perse "they were influenced by all the rape in Kashmir etc etc."

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 17:54

Coachie - need to change your own glasses and keep of the booze man- it is the blind and narrow views such as 'Muslims' and 'Pakistanis', etc that has got us into the mess in Afghanistan and iraq. After 8 years the world has seen some rays of light but obviously other have not on this thread. Why has the UK government, follwed now by the Europesns and the US, stopped using terms like 'Muslim' or 'Islmic terrorists' or the 'globl war of on terrrorism'- official direction from state agencies (having seen the light after 8 years). It would apprear from the thread that some are still in the age of of Bushism and thatcherism who brought upon us the current state of affairs. Narrow, bigoted naked racist views expressed here lumping all muslims and pakistanis are gutter street opinions which while in public may be kept within the onfines of ones mind and soul are openly expressed because of the security offered by the medium we are engaged in.

Ref Msg 117 - Aside from the Afro-car ....

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 18:06

.. community the 'older' asain community never did integrate into British society - a major gripe of right wing politicians and society- but withdrew inwards taking all kind of flak from british racist society UNTIL of course the arrival of the younger generation on the scene who reacted forcfully to all sort of discrimination and opren judices as supremely examplified in the late 60's and early 70's especially on the streets of Southall. So I am afraid, if you expected th younger generation of Asians to follwo int he footsteps of theur forefathers.

To connect with the original post, yest the Pakistani and generally Asian communities have contributed to british life in more ways than one: whether you go to hospitals and see doctors, academics in Universities or look at commerce or lowest paid manual workers these communities contributions far outweighs any other negative aspects or at least their negative aspects are overshadowed by their white counterparts negativities ...

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 19:17

I asked you once not to be insulting Fred8,I do not drink to the extent that you obviously think .Perhaps I should remove the picture of me(was taken on Holiday this year at a persons birthday party)It must really make you think I am some sort of Wino. They Own Southall lock stock and barrel.You can walk around the Quaker Oats factory for hours and the only time you see a non asian is when they are going home.The same happened in the Nescafe works.You could buy there coffee at the works shop,but the asians caused it to close because they were buying it for their friends who had shops.I have never seen a Pakistani ever doing what you called low paid manual work,seen plenty who drive illegal taxis and buses,but never one on building site with a shovel in his hand or a trowel,or a plasters float.Yes Fred8 I am bigoted old fool but I will never change my opinion.When the Pakistani goverment get rid of terrorists and make it safe for their own people and the rest of the world Imight change.

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 22:44

Coachie - I do not wish to be insulting at all - drink to your hearts content- nor should you give me an explanation under what circumstances you took that fantastic photgraph of yours! I was basically commenting on you views because most of the time i have heard such views in the open when somone is a bit tipsy - this cn have severe consequences. I remember in the early eighties in Holywood Northern Ireland ( palace barraks) a white squadie from the Anglian Regiment expressed expressed similar remarks but a decent white east end londoner(regimental boxer) turned him into a punch bag!

On a serious note everyone has a right to express their opinion including you but views such the latest one above can only be expressed with no good will - they are bitter and reval deep set prejudices.

So what if the asians 'own stock and barrel' southall? Actually, this comment contradicts your later statement about asian not doing low paid manual work!Let me explain. If you have ever flown out .....

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 22:54

.....of Heathrow airport you will have noted who does all the menial and degrading jobs? of course the asians. Now lets connect this with Southall and attidue of people like you.. When the Asian first arrived in their 'mother' country (UK) Southall, Hounslow, etc was the place for the asian to concentrate in for to baic reasons: one because it was near Heathrow airport and more importantly, like other areas of UK, they found security in numbers. You see bak those days the asian communities did not have laws in place to protect them or liberal white british people like deecyp!!!! Iam afraid these are facts and not out of a hat; if one must have debate lets keep what we say within the realm of reality but also decency.

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 23:00

.. On your last point coachie - in many ways I would strongly actually agree with you. But would go even further and state the Pak govern will never succeed. But my reasons for saying this will have to remain for the time being

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 23:18

I think the asylum has lost one of it's inmates......

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 23:41

such wl call them to collect you, since you have nothing positive to say!

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
31/03/2009 23:56

OMG! "liberal white british people like deecyp"

You ruined your case.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
01/04/2009 00:11

Touchy,touchy Fred......how did you know,that I was referring to you! Your injection wearing off?

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
01/04/2009 00:33

Guys, can we cool this a bit?



Lem

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
01/04/2009 00:38

Never been cooler Lem !

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
01/04/2009 00:40

This thread is now closed.



Reason: I was was always unhappy about the title as it singled out a minority section of British society for common debate. It then became a forum for stereotypical views on Muslim British citizens and then degenerated into a slanging match amongst individual posters.



Just to reassure you, I am not a Politically Correct Guardian reading crusader, I have strong views on immigration and integration, but this thread was not the way to do it. I don't like closing threads as I believe in free speech, but this one always had a whiff of rot about it.



Lem