Police behaviour during legitimate G20 protests

DesiH


Joined: 24/03/2009
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 09:58

Which would you consider the most serious breach of police discipline during the recent G20 protests:-

A) Telling outright lies about having any "contact" with the dead man.

B) Beating innocent passers by with batons.

C) Allowing themselves to be caught on film beating innocent passers by

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 10:02

In case readers DON'T know about this yet..



The video footage - taken in isolation - makes it LOOK like the Policeman will have some explaining to do..





http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/07/video-g20-police-assault

DesiH


Joined: 24/03/2009
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 10:07

"LOOK like" - mmmmm!! Can I take that as a 'C' then??

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 10:08

i was watching the tamil protest yesterday on tv, they seemed to be better behaved with them.

i don't believe all policemen are bad, but there is good and bad in all people.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 11:58

Hi DesiH, re msg 3



" "LOOK like" - mmmmm!! Can I take that as a 'C' then??"



I wasn't there and don't know what happened before / after the footage - hence the "LOOKs like" ..!



I once saw a programme that showed a short clip and you had to describe what was going on and who was the "baddie".. then the film was replayed with a longer before and after and it showed how we COULD assume too much...



So. I'm merely allowing for the (small?) possibility that there is more to this story than meets the eye.. NOT defending any premeditated violent act by a policeman ...

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 12:02

Media reports the man was not part of protest but a newspaper

seller on his way home. There were some pretty ugly scenes

from some of the protesters earlier with vicious attacks on police.

However, the man who died later had his back to the police at the time.

DesiH


Joined: 24/03/2009
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 12:28

There was NO CONTACT BETWEEN THE POLICE AND MR TOMLINSON (the dead man).

Statement from Police HQ.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 12:47

Re msg 7, DesiH,



Well it LOOKS like the Police may be incorrect..

DesiH


Joined: 24/03/2009
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 12:57

mmmm

Re. your messages 2 and 8.

You seem to be indicating your agreement with statements A and C. Could you perhaps be persuaded to also agree with statement B - the film does clearly show the 'police officer' beating Mr Tomlinson.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 13:35

Policeman was seen beating him from behind across back of his legs

& he fell heavily.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 14:46

Dear DesiH, re msg 9



Perhaps you miss the point - I'd like to see / hear all the info - Naturally I can see how it LOOKS..



That's why we have the IPCC . I believe everyone is innocent until proven guilty.



Lot's of speculation- we need facts..



Once more .. I see how it LOOKS.. !



M

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 15:27

Head of Metro. Police is mounting full investigation into it.

Clearly disturbed by what he saw on video (as we all were)

A man, not connected with the demo. walking home after day's

work, with back to the police.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 15:36

"It is important that we are able to establish as far as possible whether that contact had anything to do with his death."



A guy on his way home from work got assaulted by a police officer, shortly afterwards the frightening experience he had a heart attack.



Culpable Homocide.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 15:42

We all know that the police operate in some very difficult and often hazardous situations but as the clip quite clearly showed the police were many handed, with riot gear, batons and dogs, this was one man not acting in a threatening manner with his hands in his pockets going home from work.

There is NO justification for the treatment of the victim.

twaddle


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 15:43

Why does everyone seem to accept that the man had nothing to do with the demo?? why would anyone be "just walking" in amongst large numbers of protesters? most people who were not out looking for trouble would surely find an alternative route home.

Yes, it looks bad, but I remember recently seeing video of a police officer repeatedly punching a woman who was on all fours halfway down a set of external stairs from a building. What the video did not show was that the woman had sunk her teeth into the officers' thigh and he was trying to get her to release him. Now after that initial public outrage and high profile press coverage, nothing was ever published as to what really happened. Let's just wait for the result of the enquiry. As a serving police officer I have complete faith in the complaints system to get to the bottom of the matter. Trial by media is always fraught with danger. If the officer is guilty, then he will be dealt with according to the law and discipline code.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 18:33

Twaddle ..what a load of twaddle, this man died as a result of being hit with a baton and pushed with some force..the copper concerned should be strung up...and I hope he gets done for manslaughter...

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 18:39

dc4 on this one I agree with you, look at the video clip as many times as you want this guy was not part of a mob and he was wanting to go in the opposite direction of the protests. The police had a choice, let a law abiding citizen go home to have his dinner with his family after just finishing work or act in the heat of the moment with dire consequences. Watch the clip of his family telling it how it was he had absolutely nothing to do with the protests, just another copper with a heavy hand.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 19:13

Thesaints I really hope they throw the book at this copper...my condolences and thoughts are with his family ...they must be devastated.

twaddle


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 20:07

I have just had a second look from home. The chap is stumbling like a drunk before the incident. We have no idea what happened prior to the footage. He does not look like a bloke on his way home from work, he is making it quite obvious that he does not want to comply with police instructions whatever they were, why would there be such a large number of officers following him on his way?. As I have agreed, it does not look good, but it is very easy to make assumptions about what happened, I have just done the same in my summing up that he looks like he is drunk etc. I have no more information than you do. Clearly the officers have some serious questions to answer. All I am saying is that people are very quick to draw conclusions based on very limited information. I understand that the bloke died of heart faliure and it will need to be proved that the actions of the officer was the cause of this death. Police officers are also innocent until proved guilty!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 20:45

Maybe the "drunkenness" were actually symptoms of his deteriorating health. I know many patients who visited the police station accused of being drunk and disorderly when in reality they were diabetic or suffering from a heart problem.



There can be no justification for displaying violence, even to law breakers. If the police needed to arrest him they had the ability to safely restrain him and arrest him. There were certainly enough of them!



No matter what happened it was unprofessional and an example how some police have no respect for the law.

twaddle


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 21:14

Yep, I also know of such occasions. I repeat, let's wait for the result of the enquiry, anyone can be a barrack room lawyer. A man lost his life which is tragic whatever the reason. A Police Officer is now having to justify what he did. None of us knows what went on except for having sight of a piece of video footage which shows what appears to be a totally unjustified act. HOWEVER, it is very easy to accuse without all the evidence.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 21:37

On the whole I think the police gave back what they received during that disgraceful behaviour of a limited number of Yobs.As for the poor chap who appears to have been attacked by the police I think a thorough independed inquiry should take place,and if its proved that they caused the unfortunate death of the chap concerned ,then substantial damages should be awarded and the officer concerned should be charged with the necessary offence for causing his death...

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
08/04/2009 21:41

The man tried to go home in a different direction, but was prevented by doing so, by the police. They were using well rehearsed tactics to confine everyone in a small space.

A member of the ITN news team tried to work on him after he collapsed with the heart attack, and was forced off by a police charge.

When this same person tried to inform the police that the man was obviously ill, the police officer he spoke to ignored him.