retirement: north vs. south

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 19:14

hi helpful people

continuing my search for the best location for my retirement, and having been reliably informed earlier by several people that all my criteria can be met in TRNC, i started looking at the politics and unearthed a minefield as i'm sure you all already know.

so, armed with all that information, how did you all come to decide that the north was the place to be? are you not worried that you may have purchased land belonging to some poor greek family who may come back to haunt you, or can't that happen now? and did you all readily relinquish your UK pension index-linkage without a second thought? did it matter to you that TRNC is only recognised by turkey?

i do appreciate that the property available in the north takes some beating, but does that one aspect over-ride all other considerations? i mean, the weather's the same at the top and bottom.

i am very keen to discover how the north won over the south and whether the recent history of the island had any role in your decision-making.

best wishes, chrissie

TonyH


Joined: 22/11/2007
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 19:27

Hi Chrissie, don't understand the part about relinquishing index linked pensions..what's that all about please, thanks T

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 20:18

Tony,



because if you retire to some counties your UK state old age pension is frozen, and does not go up in line with the RPI or whatever method they use to calculate increases. The TRNC is one of those countries.

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 20:28

yup, that's what i discovered - you get your state pension no problem, but it stays at the starting rate, unlike if you still lived in the UK where it would get index-linked increases.

now, about my other enquiries ...

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 20:52

Not quite ready for retirement yet Chrissie but if i were there would be no contest between north and south for me.It would have to be the north every time.Dont get me wrong,we as a family have had some great holidays in the south,but to stay there permanenteley would have to be no,no for me.



Ever since thae first time we crossed the border we fell in love with the place,much more friendly and honest then the south is and more picturesque.The property thing seems to be getting a little better as well, sure you here of horror stories,but you also hear of them in the south as well.North for me chrissie.

Regards,

Paul.

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 20:58

thanks paul.

it's interesting that you know both locations well and made your decision based on personal preferences. but there must be loads of people now living in TRNC who haven't experienced GC so they must have chosen for other reasons. i appreciate that i have a few years on you, but the time will come when you'll get it, like it or not! what i'm hearing is that the differences in the two regions are sufficient to make the pension question inconsequential, right?

chrissie

briggus


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 21:43

When you return to the UK for a visit - as I understand your Stae Pension will be uprated - if you contact The Pension Service.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 22:18

Chrissie

For such a life changing decision, all I can say is research, research, research. Be aware of a 'rose tinted spectacles' view that can appear on forums like these. I wonder if some of the 'best move I ever made' etc etc views are always genuine. The property laws and cost of living are a major issue right now as you will have seen from this forum. I wouldn't recommend buying, I'd rent for a few months and see how you find it.

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 22:29

hi briggus

are you saying that an annual visit home and a call to the pension service will bring your state pension into line with UK residents' pensions?

thanks rtddci - i agree and that's what i'm trying to do, research, but no-one is answering my original post!!!

i didn't know that property law and cost of living were current issues - would you care to expand because other posts asking if one can live on £X per year are saying yes, it can be done with ease.

chrissie

orangekazzie



Joined: 31/07/2007
Posts: 1091

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 22:48

Hi Chrissie

Ok to answer your original question "are you not worried that you may have purchased land belonging to some poor greek family who may come back to haunt you, or can't that happen now?"



My answer is yes, there is always an element of danger but don't be taken in by "some poor greek" and there are plenty of poor turkish cypriot families in the same position. Remember it is exchange land that most people have purchased. I personally don't think there is any danger of the property/land being repossessed by a Greek Cypriot, but we all wait for the outcome of the Oram's case (google the name Oram to read all about it).



In my opinion do not give up an address in the UK, even if it means you use an address of a member of your family, that way you will not lose out on your pension or NHS.



Karen

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 23:13

Chrissie

Have a look at the other postings on this forum to get a flavour as to what is happening in the TRNC. There is a thread on the new property legislation changes for an example. The current total confusion amongst home buyers and the lawyers willingness to exploit that should give you a good clue as to just one of the dangers that lurk. Going in with both eyes open is your aim I'm sure, trouble is even when you think you are (like I and many others did) North Cyprus has a way of blind siding you and usually not to your benefit.

Martin

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 23:15

hi OK

please would you mind explaining "exchange land"? and how can the NHS be of help when you live abroad, or do you go back the the UK when something goes wrong?

if, as i was intending, my pension is paid directly into my bank account, and the bank account is in, say, cyprus, won't the pension people work out that the UK address is a kind of loophole thing? i can't afford to keep my home in the UK and live abroad so i don't think that's an option.

and anyway, if one is choosing to live abroad shouldn't one do it wholeheartedly and go with the regime that's being adopted? surely health insurance will cover whatever the NHS would provde equally well.

i will do as you say and look up the oram case just now. thanks.

chrissie

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 23:25

oh golly martin,

many thanks - i will indeed keep researching this.

i just had a quick look at the oram case as OK suggested - it looks like the only safe way to purchase is to make sure the property has a turkish title deed dated pre-1974, at least i thinks that's the take-home message.

of course, all this business explains why the property prices are so attractive - i couldn't believe my eyes when i first went on primelocation!

thanks for your help everyone,

chrissie

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 23:33

Chrissie,

Good luck! I think your assessment re Turkish title is spot on. Another piece of advice is not to buy offplan. If you still want to buy in North Cyprus, buy a completed property, owner has the Kocan (title deeds) in their name, is connected to water (24/7 - yes it is rationed in places) and electricity (be aware of the frequent power cuts), with meters in their name. Not sure I share your confidence re the health service issue. Join the British Residents Society.

Martin

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 23:39

thanks martin.

do you know, i'd worked out the offplan thing about 5 minutes ago! apparently there are still areas of disputed land so i think that is really good advice: i guess the orams didn't have the right sort of title deed.

i'm off to hunt the resident's soc now!

chrissie

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
04/02/2008 23:53

right everyone, this is almost back to my original question.

given everthing that i've been told above, why are people pouring into TRNC in favour of GC, or are the same land problems being experienced down there too? what am i missing?

chrissie

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 00:06

Chrissie,

I wouldnt exactly say pouring in,its certainly a buyers market at the moment.Land problems exist world wide,and there are lots of cases being fought at the moment in southern cyprus,and spain has turned into a nightmare for some people.I think it boils down to personal choice and going with your gut instinct.



Have you actually been to n.c. if not i advise you to do so.Reading up is great but you need to get out there to experience it properly,

Regards,

Paul.

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 00:32

paul, you're absolutely right - i haven't been to NC yet but i am currently planning my first visit. trouble is i might fall in love with the place and throw caution to the wind! i know what i'm like!

sure, there are land disputes everywhere but there seems to be a concentration of them in TRNC for obvious reasons. but is the north REALLY so much better than the south where all the other problems don't exist, eg. the pension stuff? why make life more difficult than it needs to be - i'm just not getting it.

chrissie

glencoe


Joined: 01/02/2008
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 08:52

Hi Chrissie,

You seem very preoccupied with the pension thing, may I suggest that as you are considering your options you first come out with a sensible head on - evaluate everything properly - then make informed choices, if you are considering coming to the TRNC you possibly have some savings, so if you place them in a Turkish lira account here you will earn enough interest to offset any pitiful increase in the British state pension.

You ask if this place is REALLY better than the south where these things dont exist, 'piffle' they exist ok - just last week a GC builder and his son were charged with beating up a british buyer who was giving them a hard time over a building problem, and this is only one example !!

Dusterbruce


Joined: 03/08/2007
Posts: 1125

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 09:49

When my parents lived in TRNC in the 1980's and 1990's they always received all the increases in their state pension! Their address was classed as Turkey but their bank account was in UK!

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 10:36

at last! thanks glencoe, you're filling in the gaps.

sorry about the pension stuff - it was just one of the things i was trying to get my head around and i completely understand about the effect of a turkish interest-paying bank account now that you've said it.

chrissie

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 11:01

Chrissie



I don't agree with the statement "only buy ready made" - you will have read that thousands of us have bought off plan and are happy with our purchases. Re: your state pension, If you use a calculator and work out the yearly increase in your government pension, you wouldn't worry so much about it! Regarding the land issue, you really need to read some of the political posts on this forum and other places and make up your own mind. My husband and I bought in a village called Tatlisu - if you read the history of this village, you will find that originally it was predomently Turkish but the Greeks pushed them out, tore down their mosque etc. - try reading things pre 1974.

As far as being ripped off, i.e. solicitors etc., it's more a question of supply and demand - not too dissimilar to UK - have you tried getting a plumber recently? Did you watch Dispatches last night? Have you recently received your utility bills? Try working out what you pay in taxes and VAt yearly and tell me you're not being ripped off in UK? As far as the TRNC being expensive to live - go to the local markets and see the wonder seasonal fruit and vegetables on offer! Also, most expats presently don't pay any taxes in the TRNC!!!!!!!!



Lastly, apart from the north being exceptionally beautiful, my husband and I wanted to retire somewhere where we were NOT part of the EU.



Look at the development: Sweetwaterbay.co.uk - a truly beautiful place, where all of who have bought into this development still can't believe we found something so unbelievablly fantastic!!



Good luck

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 11:11

Hi Chrissie



If you are looking for a safe investment and a high level of certainty then the TRNC may not for you, unless of course you purchase a Turkish title. This increases your odds, however, Turkish title is harder to acquire, whereas esdeger (exchange land) gives you more purchasing options.

If you buy esdeger land then you immediately become embroiled in the political situation, there is no getting away from that. The GC's have never agreed to the idea of exchange, so esdeger carries risk.

Most people who have bought esdeger land, have studied the political situation, looked at copious amounts of information in this respect, and have decided that the risk is acceptable/manageable.

A starting point is to read the Annan plan, the GC's rejection of the plan probably ignited the TRNC housing boom, and somewhat changed the political landscape.

Also the Immoveable property commission, where GC's are entitled to compensation, for loss of property, has given Brits more confidence in buying esdeger land.

Of course, as Karen says the result of the Orams case will be interesting. The GC'S seem to be losing politically, so thay have turned to the courts to win their war.

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 11:40

hi milou and ILC

lots of good and helpful advice from you both, thanks for that.

i will indeed keep reading - i am gradually working my way through the titles at the top of the page, accompanied by google searches.

and i love the bit about not being part of the EU!

i'm off to visit sweetwater now.

take care,

chrissie

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 17:06

Hi chrissie

I have bought off plan and regret this very much for many reasons.

Just at the moment there are some great bargains in resales and you and your surveyor can see exactly what you are getting with no lengthy arguments as completion nearsin 2 years time. There are resales with everything completed down to the pool being full of water and in many cases you can "discuss the price" with the vendor.

As far as your pension goes, even if you dont draw it into a bank in the UK, the difference pales into insignificance against the price of your property purchase in say Essenteppe against Paphos.

As others have said your planned visit to TRNC will be the what makes your mind up.

Enjoy it!

Breezyboy

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 19:12

hi breezeboy

really sorry to hear things aren't going smoothly for you.

as for the pension thing - i've been put fairly and squarely right about that and will not let it bother me again. it needs people with experience to point out these matters!

can't wait to visit - am looking for a ticket now!

very best of luck with sorting out your problems,

chrissie

Jachin



Joined: 05/02/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 19:27

Chrissie,



North Cyprus(TRNC) = no lager louts



Please read The Genocide Files by Harry Scott Gibbons and you will realise why people do not want to buy in the Greek south ( the dark side)

glencoe


Joined: 01/02/2008
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 19:33

Hi Chrissie,

Glad to be of help, as with everywhere there are problems, but we must ALL remember that this is not OUR country and things do happen differently here, I have been living and working here for five years and have been visiting regularly for many years prior to that, and have learned that the vast majority of the TC populace are warm friendly people, but that there is a small minority who will - as in any place in the world try to rip people off to line their own pockets, and some of the biggest culprits here are 'foreigners' who have come to these beautiful shores with that sole purpose in mind.

gottheyips


Joined: 28/12/2007
Posts: 444

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 20:01

Chrissie,



Just to give you our slant on the reasons we chose the TRNC,



My wife and I had holidays in both Paphos and limassol and enjoyed the experiences.

We also took four one week holidays over a period of 14 months in the TRNC this was really to get a feel of things the weather the social life etc at different times of the year, we were never dissappointed.

It was a little like house hunting you just know when the place is right for you both,

of course there are problems but that is life wherever you decide to hang your hat.

Little crime , fewer yobs, personal safety, weather, magnificent scenery blah blah blah I could go on!!.

Last but not least I was stationed on the Island of Cyprus in the mid 60s and early to mid 70s seen things that were not nice and that is putting it mildly. Realised even as a young soldier all was not right and that a race of people were being victimised, bullied, and killed, had a feeling I would come back.

we have now been in the TRNC two and a half years and to date no regrets.

Of course it is the individuals decision I just hope that this will give you some encouragement and leviate some of the negative vibs.



D n G

briggus


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 21:14

Chrissie - that used to be the case for when coming back from countries where your "frozen pensions" - I suggest you check with The Pension Service. They have an International Pension Centre that deals with overseas customers / enquiries. Rules do change.



http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/ipc/home.asp .

briggus


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 21:17

That may be a way around it - but you are supposed to report when you are out of the country to The Pension Service/Department for Work and Pensions.

TonyH


Joined: 22/11/2007
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 21:19

Hi Chrissie, thanks for clarifying the pensions bit, I've given up on the State pension....haven't contributed for the past 5 years since I went 'offshore', decided it was throwing good money down the loo!



I think you are at a stage of research that I was at about 3 months ago when I joined the forum. For what it's worth I came to the conclusion similar to that rtdci offers above..........visit several times at different times of year, rent for an extended period, buy resale to see what you are getting, learn the basics of the language, weigh up what type of property deed you feel comfortable with and be grateful to all the lovely helpful and kind people on here



T

briggus


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 21:22

Sorry excuse the quick typing "that used to be the case when coming back form countries where your pension was frozen" - I ......

Dusterbruce


Joined: 03/08/2007
Posts: 1125

Message Posted:
05/02/2008 23:25

I chose North Cyprus because I have known the country for 25 years, but the final straw was a visit in 2006 when I was out 'on the town' on a Saturday night totally surrounded by crowds of young people and realised that I did not feel threatened, unlike here in UK where I go out to work, go out shopping but the rest of the time am a prisoner in my home because you feel scared to go out especially after dark.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
06/02/2008 01:08

I must agree with Dusterbruce, I've never felt threatened or frightened. Actually the reverse, if something did happen (most unlikely) people are far more likely to come to help.

chrissie


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
06/02/2008 02:14

to everyone

THANK YOU SO MUCH for all your useful comments and positivity. i now have a much clearer idea of the lay of the land. it means a hell of a lot to me to know how you all feel and you've given me much food for thought. it's good to know that so much help is at hand - makes one feel less alone because i'm doing this thing solo and it does feel a bit scarey.

thanks to DnG - i didn't actually have negative vibes about the country, rather questions that could only be answered by individuals who had been through the system and knew the ins-and-outs. it's also good to know that one can move around safely, unlike here!

tonyH - good advice, thanks. i'm currently trying to book my first trip now for later in the year.

best regards to everyone and many thanks for taking the time to respond.

chrissie

glencoe


Joined: 01/02/2008
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
06/02/2008 09:36

Good luck in your quest Chrissie