Turk ultranationalists win in occupied Cyprus

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 20:46

Courtesy of Hellenic Antidote

So the ultranationalist UBP has won the so-called 'parliamentary elections' in Turkish-occupied Cyprus, winning 44 percent of the vote and 26 of the 50 seats in the occupation 'legislature', exposing as fools and liars those Greek Cypriots – many in Christofias' communist-led government – who believe the Turkish Cypriots are itching for reunification and peaceful co-existence with the island's Greeks.

Of course, the communists will point to the fact that the majority of those who voted in the occupation 'elections' – 62 per cent – were Turks from the mainland and not Turk Cypriots and that the settlers played the decisive role in electing the the UBP, which is the political wing of the Turkish Cypriot terrorist group, TMT, and favours partition of Cyprus. But we simply don't know if the settlers voted differently from Turkish Cypriots.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 20:49

Continued:

We assume that the Turkish settlers voted for parties opposing reunification of the island and supporting greater integration with Turkey because in any deal with the Greek Cypriots a large number of settlers would have to leave Cyprus or, at least, evacuate the Greek properties they're currently squatting in; but the Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat and his CTP have previously won 'elections' when the electorate was composed of similar numbers of settlers and Turkish Cypriots. It's always been thought that the settlers' vote is highly susceptible to pressures from the Turkish government – which under Erdogan has opposed the UBP and favoured the CTP – so it's now possible that the settlers are developing an independent political consciousness, which is as virulent and nationalist as that of the Israeli settlers in Palestine.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 20:50

Continued:

The second point worth making about the 'elections' in the occupied areas is that the first point about the the shifting psephological patterns in the Turk population in Cyprus is largely irrelevant. This is because it is the Turkish government and the Turkish army that decides what goes on in occupied Cyprus and not their puppet 'president' Talat and certainly not any puppet 'government'.

Turkey will determine Talat's position in talks with Christofias, not the UBP 'government'. It is possible, of course, that Turkey will use the 'election' of the UBP to toughen its already hardline stance in the negotiations and argue that in doing so it's only reflecting the 'democratic' wishes of the Turkish Cypriots. In this way, Turkey would, in the eyes of the international community, hope to absolve itself from the failure of the Christofias-Talat talks and avoid consequences to its EU candidature.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 20:51

Continued:

On the other hand, it has been suggested that Turkey and Talat will now want to push ahead and arrive at a settlement before 'presidential' elections in the occupied areas next year, which Talat may well lose; but Turkey doesn't do diplomatic daring or flexibility and it's more likely they'll try and use the return of the UBP to pressure Christofias to come to an Annan-style agreement before Talat is replaced with a Turkish ultranationalist as leader of the Turkish community in Cyprus.

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 20:52

38% of voters were tcs the other 62% were mainland turks as was on the front page of a turkish mainland newspaper... not really fair for the tcs is it AJ?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 20:53

Continued:

Finally, it's worth pointing out that even if a UBP 'government' doesn't pose an immediate threat to Talat's position as Turkish Cypriot negotiator; the UBP's victory is a victory for the Turkish deep state, which the UBP is an arm of. The Turkish deep state is significantly present in Cyprus, particularly in the form of the Turkish military commanders serving in the occupation army; and this alliance between the UBP and the Turkish occupation army will certainly give the UBP 'government' room to manoeuvre in further attempts to embed the 'Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus' and dehellenise/Turkify occupied Cyprus. This could result in, among other things, more destruction of Greek cultural heritage in the occupied areas, more Turkish settlers being brought in and given 'citizenship' of the 'TRNC', the halting of excavations of massacre sites, the increased harassment of the enclaved in Karpasia and of Greeks crossing to visit their villages in the occupied areas and so on

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 20:54

Link:

http://hellenicantidote.blogspot.com/2009/04/turk-ultranationalists-win-in-occupied.html

AJ

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 21:01

"But we simply don't know if the settlers voted differently from Turkish Cypriots."

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 21:02

juliet

Unfortunately I think you will find that most TC's and mainland Turks are singing from the same hymn sheet.

Read and digest what your fellow compatriot is saying.

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 21:42

AJ



see for yourself on the congrats thread what a true tc is saying...

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 21:57

One person juliet

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 21:59

juliet

Oh and by the way when you are next in my part of the world I would be more than happy to introduce you to my TC friends that have a different opinion.

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 22:02

yes AJ one tc person on this BB who witnessed many other tcs in tears as we also did today... the majority of original tcs DO want to move forward without the interference of Turkey, i just dont understand why you & others want cyprus turkified.. or is it to do with where your properties are built?

BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 22:06

juliet

You cant know how the majority of TCs voted.Most of the locals in TRNC I spoke with last week were voting on the basis that CTP had failed to govern well not on the basis of a solution to the Cyprus problem which they think will never happen especially since the Republic of South Cyprus said no last time.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 22:15

One person does not make a majority, how ludicrous you are to even assume you know what the majority of TC's want.

By the way we don't can't vote the people of TRNC have the decision and they decided with thier vote. You may not be able to accept it but you will eventually have to.

All we can do is hope that our TC neighbors and friends get what they want and they did.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 22:32

juliet

I think you misunderstand me, I am not saying whether what has happened is right or wrong, all I am doing is relaying my understanding of the situation regarding what I understand from my TC friends. If the Annan plan had been accepted by the GC's then it would have been all done and dusted by now. The Annan plan was a compromise for both sides and from what I understand from your postings is that you and your fellow GC's want more for yourselves than you want to give to the TC's.

In my book that aint fair.

Do you really think you are going to get a better deal than the Annan plan?

Keep dreaming.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 22:47

i have been saying for months, we and by we i am talking as a t/c ,will not make anymore moves from our homes ,or should i say forced out of our homes.



last chance saloon went in 2004,some g/cs are hanging on to dreams ,sorry people just dreams .



repeating what you want to hear is not realistic ,the reality is right there in front of you

that,s why the ubp are there,because that,s what the turkish people want.



musin



long live the kktc

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 22:47

AJ



"A better deal" gcs & tcs want what is rightfully theres, the annan plan was geared more to turkey than to any cypriot....

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 22:58

Juliet, your position is crystal clear. All mainland Turks out. Including the Army of course. All expats out. Cypriot Turks back to their villages and be quiet. They can do your gardens in GC Kyrenia, of course, like they used to do in "the good old days", when you lived together as "brothers". Maybe most of the Greek speaking Cypriots will even promise not to shoot the Cypriot Turks anymore?



PS. Say hello to your great leader, Fidel Christofias.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 23:00

juliet

Just what I thought you would say, absolute nonsense.

Never mind you might just get to understand it all one day. Don't worry even though I think you have lost the plot I will still stick up for you.

AJ

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 23:02

Juliet, MUSIN M is a TC read message 17 he is telling you as a TC what he wants, oh sorry it's not what YOU want

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 23:02

juliet



Turn it in.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 23:04

Hans

Ref message 19, love it and spot on.

AJ

rocking


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 421

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 23:30

Every tc I know voted yesterday for the UBP and we are delighted that Comrade Talat and his crew had their comeupance. I am in complete agreement with Message 19.

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 23:36

Just let the dust settle for a couple of days, perhaps she is confused, after all she is always telling us we must look forward and not back.

Totally agree with message 19 too.

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 23:37

musin

"thats what the turkish people want" what about the cypriots?

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 23:42

well hattikins with the ubp the tcs will most certainly be going backwards...

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 23:45

we where in the TRNC at easter and it was all UBP campaigning everyday all over the place in huge convoys, TCs i spoke to said thats the people they want in power, well thats what they have got and well done to the UBP. one thing strikes you when you drive down the north coast road in TRNC and its all the fabulous new developments all the way down to tatlisu , do you really beleive juliet and co that the greek bulldozers are comming to knock it all down? i think not



long live turkish cyprus

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
20/04/2009 23:47

In your opinion Juliet but obviously not in theirs, it was their vote, their decision so whatever anyone else thinks about it is totally irrelevant. I,m sure that most Turkish Cypriots have far more important things to think about than what the Greek Cypriots may feel, after all it's their life not anyone elses.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 00:05

juliet



"thats what the turkish people want" what about the cypriots?



I think somewhere along the line somebody has been giving you the wrong information. There has always been Turkish Cypriots on the Island the same as there has been Greek Cypriots on the Island, two different cultures/religions, very few inter-marriages, different coffee shops. How the two cultures got on together for as long as they did I fail to understand but I know one thing is that my TC friends say that they 'tolerated each other'. Hardly a marriage made in heaven.

So what is your definition of a 'Cypriot'?

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 00:16

Juliet



"thats what the turkish people want" what about the cypriots?



Is that the Greek Cypriots or the turkish Cypriots??



We know what the Turkish Cypriots want and so do you know but you don't like it.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 00:24

Dear Rocking, re msg 24



"Every tc I know voted yesterday for the UBP "



)) well there's no doubting a majority of "citizens" did ..



re msg 19, DC.



Still leaving in the past, Hans?



re msg 23 AJ



Surprised a well travelled man - like yourself - is also guilty of same - inward , self -centred ( I'm all right Jack) lime.. ! Your GC ( right of Attilla the Hun) blogger is as much "out of touch" as you - it would seem .. ! ;) .. I refer you to your own msg 11 ;)



If we are to believe LG - and *I* do - the election was more about the "economy stupid" and many of you are now suggesting it was a mandate re "TRNC" must be recognised... 26 years of TCs suffering because of this short sighted approach doesn't seem to matter..?



Juliet..



Most of the posters having a "pop" at you live on what is STILL Cypriots' land .. and couldn't even "vote"..



AJ a Cypriot is someone who is a citizen of Cyprus - you know that, really. A citizen of the RoC - someone who could ge

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 00:26

(cont) from msg 32



someone who could get a RoC passport .. Ismet can have one.. even though he doesn't recognise the right of RoC to represent him.. I have an Irish one -even though I think I'm British ;)

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 00:41

Mark

'AJ a Cypriot is someone who is a citizen of Cyprus - you know that, really. A citizen of the RoC - someone who could ge'



Not quite sure what you were alluding to at the end of your truncated message but you know as much as I do that every country has definite divisions with regards to different nationalities, just look at the UK, look at the Middle East, look at most countries on this planet and you will see there is a major problem with integration between races,religions etc. There has never been total integration between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots and there never will be. End of story.

AJ

vincehugo


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 01:24

Juliet,



I'm trying really hard to be objective about the recent election but I do have to wonder about people who purport to understand the typical TC view of life whilst also espousing strong views of their own about the rights and wrongs of the situation. If you believe that Turkish settlers are the problem and that GC's are going to take back their rightful land in the North real soon now, then I imagine that this influences the sort of TC's that you befriend. Which in turn influences your opinion of the typical TC view. It's a bit like the doctor who concludes that everyone in the village is sick!



It's difficult for anyone to reach conclusion about how "the TCs" think based on their (relatively limited) experience but it seems likely that the friends you have in TRNC are not going to be a representative sample. If I distrusted GC's and was not prepared to consider moving out of my home I'm guessing I wouldn't be invited round your house for tea (or certainly not invited back)

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 01:27

http://www.sofiaecho.com/2009/04/20/707827_strong-reactions-to-northern-cyprus-election



Up to date stuff for your reading,

Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 01:42

Dear AJ, re msg 34



"Not quite sure what you were alluding to at the end of your truncated message" ..



"There has never been total integration between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots and there never will be. End of story."



If you look as diligently for the TRUTH re GCs and TCs living side by side - as you did for my msg that continued immediately below - you will arrive at "strange" conclusions..



How short is your memory?



Germans and French warred for centuries over Alsace



Iraq invaded Kuwait



Former Yugoslavia was a mess..





Those who seek to find a difference of opinion will surely find someone / some incident to prove they were "right" re folk of different ethnicities not living together...



You lived / worked in a Muslim nation run for many years by Orthodox "Christians" - they still live side by side.. they can and will in CY, too .. No one is forcing them to live together... if they want that will happen.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 08:13

RE msg 32, 6xm > re msg 19, DC. Still leaving in the past, Hans? <



=> No way, Marky. But knowing and not forgetting the past prepares one for a possible future.

BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 09:56

Re msg 36



The chief secretary of the Progressive Party of Working People Andros Kyprianou said:

"We would like to make it clear that everything agreed with Mehmet Ali Talat so far cannot be subject to renegotiations."



The above quote from the link posted by dodger is the relevent one for me.It makes you wonder what exactly has been agreed by Mr Talat

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 10:28

and at this present time Mr T & MrC are in one of there meetings... the cyprus problem will be solved....

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 10:37

RE msg 40, juliet > and at this present time Mr T & MrC are in one of there meetings... the cyprus problem will be solved.... <



=> Yeah..., but will *their* solution be approved by (random order): Turkey, the TRNC government, the TRNC parliament and the TRNC voters in a referendum..? Dream on, juliet.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 11:22

Dear DC, re msg 41



1/ Mr Talat - as Ismet keeps reminding us - will be mindful of what TR wants



2/ the "TRNC" "govt / parliament" - read above..



3/ Now the voters ... you got me there... for many of them it will be like Turkeys ( the bird) voting for more Christmases.. !

Lazy days


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 847

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 14:19

Hello peeps,

Dutch Crusader you are truly a wonderful person your message 19 says it all really, I for one will be just delighted if the UBP lock the gates completely to re-unification

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 14:49

UBP is back in the game.

After years of heavy taxing to the public by the CTP, the people have naturally been put off. Rise of enemployment etc.

As much as i believe the ORP was what the TRNC needed, but somebody needs to pick up the pieces first, and the UBP will be doing this.



there have been talks about the ubp closing some crossing points. This will not happen. 4,000 tc's rely on these crossing points for jobs. If the crossing points are closed, these people will be unable to cross the border for work, and thus unemployment will rise even more.



dont worry british expats, you'll still be able to cross to the south and buy your favourite snacks!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/04/2009 15:45

Dear Canyavuz

re msg 44



it is so reassuring to hear you tell us that the UBP won't be closing the gates...



Aside from the obvious points you raised - they couldn't do it... only Turkey does that.. turkey HAD to open the gates as a TC took 'em to the ECHR and won ... didn't you know ?!

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
23/04/2009 01:47

mmmmmm,

Turkey doesnt have to do anything that they dont want to.

The ECHR is nothing to Turkey. If Turkey cared about the ECHR, they would have given gc's their properties back....etc.

Turkey didn't HAVE to open the gates.

Ok, so lets say that Turkey opened the first gate in response to the ECHR case.

Why were all of the other gates allowed to be opened then? Bostanci, Lokmaci, and the Famagusta gates etc.....



If Turkey HAD to do it, they would only open one, not 5!

halffull


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 571

Message Posted:
23/04/2009 01:53

Someone had to win as long as the TCs are happy

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/04/2009 09:35

Canyavus, re msg 46



"Turkey doesnt have to do anything that they dont want to. "



) you mean like pay up in landmark ECHR cases and form the IPC - which the GCs are daft enough not to test..?



you mean like THREE weeks after a TC won a case against TR re restricting his freedom of movement..and against the wishes of Rauf Denktash.. the gates opened because TR thought it was a "good idea"? )))))



You need to understand that being a member of the Council of Europe - having Judges sit in the ECHR - is PRECISELY what TR wants..



There's that lack of research, before posting, kicking in again..



Turkey is moving towards a new era re rights for ethnic minorities, freedom of speech and you will have to understand that questioning Turkey's faults doesn't imply being anti-Turkish or insulting Turkey .. it's part of being a true Democracy .

Clara


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 136

Message Posted:
23/04/2009 10:19

That is interesting,I didnt know that.

Where did you get that information from?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/04/2009 10:26

Clara, re msg 49



"That is interesting,I didnt know that.



Where did you get that information from?"



Sorry :(... to whom are you referring and which info ! ;)



I'm NOT being sarcastic.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
23/04/2009 10:38

i was just reading that president gul has said turkey was in full support of the cyprus talks and mr t.

maybe they want the e.u. membership more than they want this small slice of cyprus?

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
23/04/2009 14:25

please end the idea of Turkey and N.Cyprus entering the E.U.

Turkey knows very well that they will never be allowed to join. I have four words "France, Germany, Greece, S.Cyprus".

The only reason Turkey goes on with the accession talks is because of the investment it brings in. That and the small economic growth that it sees from it.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/04/2009 14:50

Dear Canyavuz re msg 52



"please end the idea of Turkey and N.Cyprus entering the E.U."



Could you tell that to Mr Gul, and Mr Erdogan - not us.. and Cyprus - ALL of it is already IN the EU - just the "north" part has had the "acquis coordinaire" suspended ... TCs who are RoC citizens and EU citizens can legally work, etc.



France, said Non to the UK in the sixties.. Greece WANTS TR in - if only to hand the responsibility of being the eastern most nation - and the "frontier" of the EU to someone else and the immigrant "headaches". Germany has lots of TR dual citizens who vote and the RoC will never use their veto...



We need only worry about Austria / NL ;)



"The only reason Turkey goes on with the accession talks is because of the investment it brings in"



YEAH , RIGHT.. all the HR reforms and law changes to comply for EU membership are "just for fun"...



You seem very found of posting opinions with NO basis in FACT !

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
24/04/2009 08:35

greece is backing turkeys eu membership in full.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
24/04/2009 15:12

Firestarter

"greece is backing turkeys eu membership in full. "



We all know that this is the phrase used to look like they want to negotiate and get all the things that they want done in Cyprus.

If things do not go their way the first word they will say is "Veto" or "Oxi"



Biker

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
24/04/2009 20:01

I couldn't agree with you more "Biker".

Greece is backing Turkey's eu accession in full? Yea right! The day they finally accept Macedonia to be called "Macedonia" is when i will believe that they are backing Turkey's accession bid.



Until problems such as air territory, sea boundaries, island ownership (islands that are a stones throw away from mainland Turkey) and the so called "Cyprus problem", are solved, Greece will never accept. And including the FACT that Turkey is a 97% muslim nation, with 60% of the muslims being devoted muslims. Let's not deny that religion isnt a problem.....because it is

How can you seriously believe such a thing?



And Back to France.......they have always been against it, and Sarkozy always says that nothing will make them change their minds.

That one country can end it all. Angela Merkel has the same view.



Mr Erdogan and Gul know very well that the accession will never go through. They're not stupid. The only one getting played here is the EU, n

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/04/2009 00:25

Biker re 55



"We all know that this is the phrase used to look like they want to negotiate and get all the things that they want done in Cyprus.



If things do not go their way the first word they will say is "Veto" or "Oxi"



No we DON't all know this.. and it's simply not true... Greece has more or less washed it's hands of Cyprus - it's in the EU - and is FAR more concerned about trading with it's neighbour and hoping IT will soon have the immigrants from the east "headache"..



re msg 56 Canyavuz,



I note that you don't / can't respond to points that "burst you bubble(sic)" ..from msg 53



The Turkish and Greek leaders seem to get on quite well... may be it is a "show" .. but I think your viewpoints are going the way of the Dinosaur ..