One for Pikey, Juliet, 6m, whatever, whoever

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 12:47

Nige has posted an interesting link on the other forum about a statue in honour of a nice chap known as "BiLLY the Bomber." Apparently the statue in Nicosia/Lefkosa/Lefkosia depicts him in the act of throwing a grenade on to a school bus full of Turkish Cypriot children,now my point is this; If the peace loving Greek Cypriots go into a hissy fit over a memorial honouring British people who were murdered by EOKA,



WHY DO THEY ALLOW THIS ABOMINATION?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 13:04

Dear Newscoop, re msg 1



When you read up a little more about this statue.. I'll revert.. I've asked Nige to do the same...



IF it was indeed as you say it would be in EXTREMELY bad taste .. A bit like the residents of Dresden felt about Bomber Harris...



The main thing is that ex EOKA and ex UK service personnels live side by side and are friends, now.

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 13:06

When you read up a little more about this statue.............



I can find very little on it any where on the net

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 13:46

Nige I have too scoured the internet for info on billy the bomber to no avail...maybe he brought such shame that they have not given him any credence on the net!

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 16:23

6m;



it may well be that ex EOKA and ex service men live side by side but this person allegedly chucked his grenade at Turkish Cypriot schoolchildren some of whom presumably are not around to live side by side with anyone. So can you give us all the benefit of your knowledge regarding this murderer/freedom fighter (your choice) as there is practically naff all on the web.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 16:27

Newscoop re msg 5



I honestly don't know about the statue- but I have asked elsewhere and hope to get an answer..

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 16:49

MMMMMM



a bit like the people of Dresden etc



You again show how you favour the orginators of oppresion.



Otherwise you might have said-

a bit like the people of Coventry etc.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 17:00

Dear BreezyBoy



re msg 7



"You again show how you favour the orginators of oppresion. "



You really need to read all the thread and in context.. I said



" IF it was indeed as you say it would be in EXTREMELY bad taste .. A bit like the residents of Dresden felt about Bomber Harris... "



Did you conveniently forget the "extremely bad taste" bit ...SURELY not ?!





1/ Lot's of people in Coventry died that night - and British intelligence knew the target would BE Coventry - but they couldn't let on they knew and had cracked the Nazis code. As a ten year old - during my first ever trip to England I was privileged to be part of a school trip to Coventry and the Cathedrals...



2/ Dresden - was an unnecessary act of "murder" by Bomber Command - I'll let you research why - as it is clear you don't know... it might do you some good



May be it might teach you to be careful about "jumping to conclusion" or trying to alter the meaning of folks posts.....?

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 17:00

I think there are 2 now the original in the centre of nicosia or lefkosia and 1 at some trafic lights just over the green border past the roundabout with rings on

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 17:02

6m;



WW2 Dresden



Cyprus murder of children



and the connection is...?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 17:12

Newscoop.....I think the connection is statues.....statues of war "heroes".....the topic of your initial thread.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 17:22

Dear Newscoop re msg 10



1/ Do you KNOW - for a fact what the statue commemorates ?



2/ How many kids did bomber Command kill when it didn't *need* to bomb a civilian targets



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II



http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/bombing_of_dresden.htm



http://www.learningcurve.gov.uk/heroesvillains/g1/



IF the statue commemorates a person that indiscriminately targeted civilians then it is "EXTREMELY bad taste "



Look, most of us consider Winston Churchill as "hero" .. but he bombed and gassed the Kurds long before Saddam - having been part of a govt then had promised them ( the Kurds) a homeland and then drew new borders - making new countries - the "forgot" the promise.



They fought for a homeland- so he ordered them to be bombed and gassed ... We have a statue of him, too that is revered...



Do you care if the Kurds think that is an abomination?!

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 17:26

Chronos;



So someone who sets out to maim and kill children in a terrorist act is a "war "hero" interesting viewpoint.



The chance of Arthur Harris having a statue in Dresden is about the same as the Austrian corporal having one erected in his memory in Coventry, Lefkosia on the other hand.....!



Still not much from the GC supporting cadre.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 17:41

Unfortunitely attrocities happen in time of war,this you will never get away from.no good arguing over the rights and wrongs of the matter, it will not bring any one back,just regard it as a piece of unsavoury history.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 17:44

Newscoop.....it may help if you actually read my posts before replying to them.



I used "heroes" in inverted commas to signify that I consider neither Billy the Bomber NOR Bomber Harris should be regarded as such !



And could you please explain what you mean by "Still not much from the GC supporting cadre. "?



Thanks.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 18:06

Chronos; it was obvious you were being ironic but comparing a terrorist to the head of bomber command (a New Zealander) doing his job in a just war is a bit beyond the pale.



As for the cadre, read the thread title.



Coachie; Declared war is what it says on the box



murder is murder.



All I want to know is; did Billy the bomber do it or not?



and if he did do it then how can the EOKA reaction to the proposed British memorial be defended.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 18:41

Dear Newscoop



I read the title thread, but did you work out what Cronos, etc., / I am / are TRYING to tell you viz:



It appears you wish to condemn the GCs - and may be rightly so but - One mans's terrorist ....



When someone can post substantial info re this statue - then we can debate better, no ?



It seems you can't grasp that Bomber Harris' policy killed innocent civilians fleeing the Red Army.



Churchill sent folk who fought for the Allies back to to Stalin to be "re-educated" ( well murdered) ..



If you wish to argue the rights of children - what about those who lost their lives in the fighting over two months in July / August 1974.. in the name of Enosis / Peace, etc.



Could you not claim that the naming of Ercan - a Turkish pilot killed was "insulting...



*MY* reaction to the Monument to UK Servicemen who fell - as Wayne's Keep is inaccessible is that it is "unfortunate" and some folk are making it political on both "sides"..

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 20:40

Is "Billy" still alive? If he is, I wonder if he will hand him self in to the TC authority for a fair trial and sentence......and ask for forgiveness.



No out rage like the recent "band wagon" jumpers demanding the flag shooter turn him self in to the GC authorities. !!!

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 20:55

OK I thought this one would be a challenge so I have spent all day, absolutely nothing, the only thing I can find is a tourist on the lonely traveller said he had heard of the statue and would like to of seen it whilst he was in Cyprus.

That is it pure hear say nothing factual at all, one comment from a traveller on the whole internet!!!

I could find absolutely nothing else on the supposed Billy the Bomber.

IF it were true surely there would be something actually documented?

I don't believe it exists and my investigations Bombed!!!

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 21:06

Oops it was someone on virtualtourist that made the comment.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
27/04/2009 22:18

mmmm

message 12.



Once you get away from wanting to hang me,an illegal property owner by my balls,I agree with a lot what you say.



I really cant see anyone putting a statue of someone who would murder women and children up, and the name Billy doesnt ring true.



Dresden and Tokyo served no purpose in shortening the war ,to bomb a city with nearly a million refugees mainly women and children,camped mostly in the the open,when the Soviets were 100miles away,was murder.Even in war there must at least be some reason behind killing.



As for Saddam, he was a murdering, torturing , evil tyrant, for decades,when he was our friend and ally.We didnt give a toss for the Iraqis or Kurds,until he invaded Kuwait and threatened our oil. I remember asking people at the time ,what exactly he was doing to people that was different when we supported him ,that justified us now calling him a tyrant.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 01:47

OK, "Billy the bomber" commemorates Markos Drakos an EOKA member who was killed fighting the British - now that should help someone find where the story about him murdering kids comes from...





A link or two to be getting on with



http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=Markos+Drakos+EOKA&src=



Off to bed

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 09:11

Markos Drakos was a Cypriot guerrilla fighter who was killed in the EOKA struggle (1955 - 1959) against the British.

He was born in Lefkosia, on September 24, 1932 and studied accounting. When EOKA was formed, Drakos was among the first to join, training others in the use of arms and recruiting members.

On April 1, 1955, considered to be the first day of the struggle, Drakos and his "Astrape" ("Lightning") team blew up the radio station of Athalassa, destroying it completely.

On June 30, 1955, Drakos was arrested by the British but managed to escape 3 months later. A bounty of 5,000 pounds was placed on his head but that did not deter him from taking part in more battles and acts of sabotage.

Finally, on the night of January 18, 1957 the British forces attacked Drakos and his men at their hideout in Solea.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
28/04/2009 09:22

6m;



Sorry mate but there is nowt to confirm Drakos is your man on the net. He allegedly committed suicide rather than be taken by the Brits (according to the "official" EOKA version) but it is hard to imagine that scenario given that he had somewhere between 13 and 40 bullet holes in him. Depending on which version you choose to believe.



When I am over next I`m going to look at the statue and try and suss the situation out.



By the way 6m it seems a tad unfair that Pikey, Juliet, and co are leaving you on your own on this one.



I appreciate your typical Irish neutrality but can you stop demonising the likes of Harris and Churchill who were far better men then you and I will ever be, Dresden, Tokyo, Cyprus, it doesn`t matter where, if someone is daft enough to start a war than it follows that someone will get hurt. And lose!