What price now for property?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
29/04/2009 09:52

As a result of the Orams case surely this has now put a full stop on the housing market here. Who will buy with this 'cloud' hanging over.



What I want to know is this. With the state of the property market surely land and property is almost worthless - to the point that you couldn't give it away if you tried. Surely then with this in mind any 'claim' made on your property / land will only be for the value as it stands. You can't expect to make a substantial claim for thousands of pounds when it's not even worth that, can you?



Or do you know different?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
29/04/2009 09:57

i think the claim will be for the lose of use.

who is it who is going to buy here anyway??

tc's we were talking to last night are also looking forward to getting their lands back in the south.

something has to give!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
29/04/2009 10:01

fire starter. Loss of use can only be for the period you purchased the property. You can't claim loss of use for 35 years against an owner who only purchased say last year.



Will the tc's you spoke to go and live in the South? What type of compensation will they be after?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
29/04/2009 10:19

fire starter. Loss of use can only be for the period you purchased the property. You can't claim loss of use for 35 years against an owner who only purchased say last year.







Will the tc's you spoke to go and live in the South? What type of compensation will they be after?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
29/04/2009 10:21

from what i gathered it was all about money.

the land in the south is worth more per donum than in the north.

the trouble is they all want to have their cake and eat it.

they don't want to give up their homes here, they were built on land given to them in exchange for land left in the south. but it was never gc land , it was goverment land . so that sort of brings in a new type of title.

turkish because it has always been a turkish cypriot village, but exchange because it was given to them.

they want their south land back to sell, but are unwilling to give up what they have( as there will never be any claim on it)

thank god my house is one of the oldest in the village, it doesn't have all these issues!

Middle Easter


Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 146

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 22:02

You know, I was going to post a reply here about msg 1 etc, but you know it's not worth it.



All I would say is you think that the decision re Orams is going to create a lanslide of claims against buyers in NC, (& also lost land in Southern Cyprus) that will result in enforced payments in the UK, you must be eating magic mushrooms!



The only final solutions will be a governmental one & failing that Turkey loosing patience & Cyprus beng divided forever, which frankly I don't see as too bad a thing.



Sure if you have to sell at the moment, the prices will be down. However. medium/long term, eveything will look after itself, promise.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 22:18

The Orams have not lost anything yet,

The ECJ judgement was a clarification on a point of law that Lord Phillips asked for to help him with the case in the UK Courts a case which is still expected to last until next October.

Until the conclusion of the case it may put a dampner on the property market as far as some Euro citizens are concerned for a while but it will not affect the Non Euro zone buyers in fact it would not suprise me to see Russian and Baltic region residents taking advantage and trying to buy at fire damage sale prices.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 22:27

the saint

last week i had to call my uk lawyer, the first thing he asked was"are you ok?"

the property thing was on the news in the uk!

yeah, loads of buyers coming from all over the e.u and the rest of the world.

a bit like the imaginary tourists,lol.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 22:40

'imaginary tourists'

I actually saw some getting off coaches in Girne this week. They were from the south though (GC coach), on a day trip presumably. Sounded German. I just hope they didn't get ripped off in a restaurant in the harbour.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 22:49

Given that the properties and land are virtually worthless now, how much compensation could people be expected to pay?

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 22:58

FS you obviously did not read my posting, it does say the it will put a dampner on European buyers but why would it affect people from non euro states who want to take advantage of the cheaper prices? Russian and Baltic regions do give a toss for European laws but they do like cheap carrion.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 23:06

Is this about compensation No 1?



All Mr Apopop (whatever) has ever wanted, is the Oram's to demolish their villa in Lapta, as a warning to all foreign purchasers and stem the tide of buyers of GC land.



It has never been about money only ever about a principle.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 23:10

Bradus, thats what I'm saying, the land is worthless. I think it's more than a matter of principle. I think they want to come back in droves and take over the whole Island. If that happens then within 25 years they'll be no TC's left here. This must not happen!

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 23:15

Bradus,



you are correct it has always been about principle and the principle is to acknowledge that the land still belongs to it's original owner. Whether they have use of it or not they just want it acknowledged that it is thiers.

Once that is established it can then be resolved by compensation, exchanges, leasholds etc.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 23:28

TheSaints, this could be the way forward.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 23:38

Bill,

I believe it already may be on the cards the P5 are pleased with the talks progress and with there being limited ways to resolve this issue both sides need a solution that will let the people on both sides keep face and most importantly thier dignity and they need the people to agree terms when/if it goes to referendum.

So they have a solution where each side acknowledges each others Land Ownership and let's each faction reatain thier pride, once that is achieved it really is obvious that both factions will not integrate fully again therefore to federalise or Bi zone the island is the obvious answer this will mean Exchange of land, compensation or possible long leasehold options. Problem what problem. Well this would be a possible solution.

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 23:50

Re msg. 7,11



TheSaints, why do refer to the Baltic citizens as if they were not in EU? In fact they ARE!

As for the rest of the of the world...well, can not speack for all of them, but, being a non EU citizen, NOW I reckon that if I was owner of the problematic property I would feel quite uncomfortable. Must admit it's only my personal perception that could get changed 'cos risks are indeed much lower, but for the time being - no way.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
01/05/2009 23:56

Would i be right in thinking that the Orams won this particular case in 2006.Still lots of twists and turns yet.Exciting times lie ahead,

Paul.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 00:02

Completely different case Paul.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 00:04

Paul,



correct, interesting times ahead indeed mate as we all know the British law is a very intricate machine and this is not done and dusted yet, the case is still ongoing and is far from over all that has been acheived right now is point of law clarification nothing more, there is no conclusion to this yet nothing has been won.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 13:41

The UK does not recognise the trnc. Therefore how will they be able to uphold an application that may be made by a 'third party' for compensation in respect of a property owned in the 'place' that they don't recognise?



Unless of course the EU and the majority of the world plan to start recognising us.

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 14:11

This is what i got from an estate agent,



Statement by President Talat Following his Meeting with Political Party Leaders

Following is the common ground reached after the evaluation meeting we had today with the political parties represented in the National Assembly.

With the decision it has issued on 28 April 2009, the Court of Justice of the European Communities (ECJ) has made a serious mistake by deeming the Orams case as a private civil case between two individuals and ignoring the fact that there are two different laws in force in two sides of Cyprus. It is not possible to accept this decision which ignores the extraordinary circumstances in Cyprus.

This decision of the ECJ has also had serious negative effects over the ongoing negotiation process in Cyprus. Provided that the British Court of Appeal, which will be the last to conclude the legal process regarding the Orams Case that has not been completed yet, produces a decision ignoring the facts in Cyprus just as the ECJ di

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 16:00

he he ha ha

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 16:10

Lets keep a calm head...the Orams lost the battle...not the war..this is far from over and I for one have not lost the faith.....the TRNC will not let us down..that is my belief!

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
03/05/2009 11:33

Nothing to worry about, Land prices are at an all time low as will be the property market, if you have money buy Iknow a couple of uk investors looking at the TRNC with a view to heavy investment in property. Re compensation they would get more at 1974 rates, Anybody got change for a fiver!! Keep the faith..........

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
03/05/2009 13:02

DC4



thats it gal, nothing has been lost and there has been no victory just a clarification on points of law, the UK courts may not let everyone down yet either wait and see what the final judgement on this case is when Lord Phillips makes his deliberations.



Remember there will not be another case like the Orams as the IPC is now in place approved by the ECHR as the route for any GC claim.

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
03/05/2009 15:25

Rule 1. Don't panic.



Rule 2. Where there is a 'will' there is a way (and may be some lawyers too!).



Rule 3. This situation has not happened yesterday or today. It has been on the cards for over 30 years and the accession of Cyprus to the EU in 2004 made this aspect inevitable.



Rule 4. The TRNC needs to re-evaluate its position. On the one side it has to please the Turkish government vis-a-vis its accession talks which to be honest is just a polite way of telling the Turkish state to join the Foreign Office and on the other hand it has to please the population of the TRNC including the ex-pat community.



Rule 5. If something is worth having it is worth fighting (not literally) and waiting for!



Rule 6. Has anything really changed since the ECJ ruling? Only if you have property or assets in any other part of the EU and then only if the applicant goes through a legal process and if they are successful in following the present case.



Rule 7. Hope is better than despair!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/05/2009 15:39

Rule 8. See rules 1 - 7.

Kitty1


Joined: 15/03/2007
Posts: 683

Message Posted:
04/05/2009 16:51

As regards property not selling now, all I can say is that we have had 5 viewings since the verdict (rather bizarrely more than in the preceeding weeks) . People ARE still looking to buy.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/05/2009 17:05

Hope you get a sale soon Kitty.

Amber


Joined: 26/09/2008
Posts: 561

Message Posted:
04/05/2009 17:08

Kitty,



May I ask where those that viewed were from , ie UK, Cypriots? just wondered ??



I too am trying to sell - best of luck.

Kitty1


Joined: 15/03/2007
Posts: 683

Message Posted:
04/05/2009 17:20

Hi Amber, they were all Brits.



Good luck to you too.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
05/05/2009 09:31

I think more and more buyers will be looking to buy an apartment on a complex as this would seem to be the 'safest' option at this time.



No one is going to be asked to bulldoze multiple apartment blocks and give back what was probably grazing land.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
05/05/2009 09:54

Kitty......do you make potential purchasers fully aware of the potential legal implications of buying on Exchange deeds,or do you assume they have done their own research?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/05/2009 11:12

Dear Moover321



re msg 27



"Rule 5. If something is worth having it is worth fighting (not literally) and waiting for! "



I'm sure the legal owner of the land /property certainly residing in the "rump" RoC will take great comfort from your words...