All borders to be closed

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 00:05

Will this be something that will happen in the near future.Seeing as there isnt a cat in hells chance of re-unification why dont we just shut them the (gcs) out,become federal with Turkey join the eu, re-open Ercan as a direct flight one stop international airport.Bobs your uncle and fannies your aunt.Who needs Greeks bearing gifts,

Paul.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 00:06

If only Paul.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 00:06

Paul. .

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 00:08

Bill,

Good to see you smiling again,even though you are looking a bit blue round the gills,

Paul.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 00:13

Paul. .

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 00:16

I reckon about a month before the ubp close all borders,

Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 01:16

Paul



1/ UBP doesn't "run" the part of Cyprus you refer to as "TRNC".. TURKEY does... the ECHR say so



2/ TURKEY closing the border would trigger fines and sanctions from the Council of Europe as they ECHR already ruled it was a breach of Human Rights... of *TCs* a TC took TR to the ECHR and won in March 2003 - if anyone wondered why the "gates opened"..



3/ Do you really think TCs who work south of the green line are going to "care" about the plight of non Cyps over ther ability to earn a living ? :o





.... All that can happen is some sort of "TRNC" "law" making it a "crime" to serve writs from the RoC ..

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 01:19

Mark, it's good to see you still have your sense of humour & are not taking this too serious, lol. After the last couple of days I think things should be a little more light hearted.

Paul

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 01:26

Mark,

You really need to be in the firing line to understand the feelings of the people of the north borders will close,

Paul.

BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 01:32

When Turkey realise they are being played by the EU this situation will move forward.



When one state (RoC) interferes in the internal affairs of another (TRNC) (Turkey) it can be seen as a casus belli

pinkchilli


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 689

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 08:22

I understand the feeling of some of those in the North not wanting anything to do with those in the South. Therefore closing the borders would help them. They would not be able to go South and they woud not see those from the South up here.



However, if you do not want to go South, then don't. Why does it take the borders to close, to stop you. Does this mean that you want to have no option, in effect, close the borders, so you CANNOT go? Or you just want everyone else to have no option?



Lets go one stage further. Lets assume the borders close. We all spend our money in the North. All the flights we, and our family take use Ercan. Do you think that any TRNC Government will reduce taxes as demand increases! (Those living near the PORK shop, look above!).



Oh, what about the shopkeepers and businesses. Will they reduce prices as demand increases. I wonder, will all the supermarket bosses get together and agree, (because they now are not competing with the South)



..

pinkchilli


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 689

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 08:30

(Cont)…



To reduce prices? You all know the answers.



Fair competition is good. I know we cannot compete fairly due to the embargoes, etc. But would the businesses compete fairly if they could?



If the borders closed, we may feel good for a while. We may feel that we have proved to everyone that we don't need a solution. We don't need re-unification. But, personally, I believe that we would be far better off (all in the North, not just a few Brits) if we continued in the talks, but when the vote comes, just let the other side vote NO again!

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 09:56

It depends on the terms and conditions that the talks come up with as to how people will ultimately vote. It would be very interesting though if the TC's voted yes again and the GC's voted no again. Surely if this happened reunification would be dead and buried forever and I believe that a seperate (and recognized) northern state would be inevitable. What say you Markymark?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 11:16

Hi Millzer, re msg 13



the only "reunification" that could happen is the bizonal, single federated state made up of autonomous regions..



We HAVE to respect the GC no - of 2004 - as they were largely VERY badly advised and led to believe that the plan could be made better - whilst the "leader" didn't earnestly try to get the best deal for his people and then tried to blame the UN, et al...



I believe he knew that the EU/ UN would be hamstrung be the legal obstacles to "elevating" the political standing of the TCs...



The UN/ EU have to be wary of imposing a solution, so YES.. ultimately if GCs don't compromise - allow some TEMPORARY "breaches" of normal Human Rights of freedom of movement/ settling - to allow a healing / trust period -they ultimately could ensure the "TRNC" gets some sort of Taiwan status..



Paul re msg 9 (closing "borders")



I REALLY think you are mistaken to believe that a TC will give up his job to "protest" about something that doesn't directly effec

baxi7


Joined: 23/09/2008
Posts: 130

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 13:44

go to metehan at 6 am and see which way the traffic is going , believe me it is all going south . ( to work ) .

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 15:01

Closing the border wouldn't change anything as far as owing property on Exchange Deeds is concerned!

stevie-d



Joined: 13/07/2007
Posts: 1420

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 21:17

Closing the border would mean a lot of hasttle for us north of the border, it means spending another half day travelling south to catch a flight to Ercan, but it puts more time and money onto our holiday. Bring back the Glasgow Ercan flight, things would be alot easier for us Scots.

stevie-d

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 21:29

Why close the border ?

Let TC,s and expats go south as often as they like it will only benefit them and keep their standard of living a bit better.





Might just get up a few peoples noses as well !

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 21:40

Surely the "closing of the border", whilst not presently permissible, would affect, most of all, the TC's who go there to work? OK - not "a border" but whatever the politically correct name for it is. Lots of TC's rely on work in the South for their livelihood - the point about making it a long journey for some Brits going on holiday is surely a "drop in the ocean" and matters little?



J

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
02/05/2009 21:50

I have flights booked via the south, when you stay in Scotland its not easy getting home to the TRNC so NO closing the border, why dont we all stop spending money in the south an economic boycott, then we will hear them scream.

gerrybart


Joined: 02/06/2009
Posts: 10

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 15:15

I dont understand what all the fuss is about. I love the North, but have to live in the South to work. If someone is moaning about the South, then just dont go, really what is the point of moaning?

Anyway, why the bitterness about the South from someone that isnt Turkish anyway?

Just curious thats all,

Gerry

gerrybart


Joined: 02/06/2009
Posts: 10

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 15:19

By the way, just curious and I am not being sarcastic as I honestly dont know, but what do you think the chances of Turkey actually being allowed into the EU are? Personally, and it really is just my opinion, I think there is more chance of hell freezing over, since they all seem to be Christians in one form or another and although this may not be the real reason, this may be one of the major problems. Of course theres always the human rights issues as well.

Gerry

AndyR



Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 317

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 15:28

Msg 1 - Will this be something that will happen in the near future



I hope not, I'll need to go back and fore a few times when I'm there. does anyone in TRNC teach pole vaulting

twoexpats


Joined: 09/04/2009
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 15:59

re message 23. Not sure about pole vaulting but I have heard there are one or two expert pole dancers!!

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 16:03

arbee

' How much of that came from your pockets do you think?'



Certainly none from mine.

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 20:26

Gerry-mess 22,

Of course the e.u. want Turkey on board just in case they jump ship totally and join there middle eastern friends,

G.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 21:38

Dear Paul



( yawn)



QUITE SURE I've already explained to you why the green line crossing points will NOT be closed ( what "border" are you referring to ? ;) )



TR has already ben taken to Court ( ECHR ) by a TC and the finding was TR ( note NOT "TRNC" ) was infringing the TCs rights to move freely on island... THAT is why weks later - and against Mr R Denktash's wishes his son announced the opening of the gates...





TR can't afford to be in contempt of a ruling..

tommy13


Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 21:45

To greeks its a crossing line for north to south and vice versa , to the trnc , its a border , dividing 2 countires , to me its a border between 2 countires in practice its a border between 2 countries , which is why theres passport control and logged entry and exit from turkish authorities and not by greek authorities

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 22:41

Dear Tommy13



re 29



1/ The "Greeks" are Cypriots that speak Greek - Greek Authorities look after Greece



2/ "TRNC" is legally invalid - as ( therefore) is any "border" - do you need a link to the UN Security Council Resolutions?



3/ Do you need links to the EU sites re the "green line" regulations and how the RoC authorities have to exercise passport control at the first place they can effectively control ?

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 22:49

Hi arbee it seems to work both ways with regard to spending. Look at how much the casinos make by the GCs comng over. I think the figures could balance out with what is spend spending in the south side. You have so much more choice which is now available to the ordinary TCs. And a lot go to work there also.Green line or border as Tommy says its a border if you have to get a visa stamped to enter xx

tommy13


Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 23:01

msg 30 ,



I dont recognise CYPRIOT as an ethnic group , therefore for me theyre greeks from cyprus , they speak greek and are christian and we are turks from cyprus, we speak turkish and we are muslim , like British (english) cypriots whos family have been here for a over 100 yrs , they are still english ethnically ,

I dont recognise un security council resolutions , and nor does TRNC , It exists , no resolution changes that fact for me ,,, I live In TRNC , its real , it exists , legally or illegally doesnt negate for me that the TRNC is a real place , that it exists in reality and has complete authority over its affairs . The border is the border of my country , ill take you there and show you that you have to pass immigration control and exit the country TRNC .

tommy13


Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 23:02

anywya thats how i see things , it may be my opinion , im entitled to it .....and your entitled to yours

tommy13


Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 23:18

the term ethnic connotes race for me , therefore what i mean is the english who have been here over 100 yrs are still ethnically ( by race ) still english , greeks of cyprus are still greeks by race and turks likewise .. I dont accept a cypriot race .. i accept its distinct cultural aspects and dialects , but for me my ancestors and my race is turkish , the turks of cyprus came from a bunch of turks who crossed a sea and settled here .. like your pakistani analogy , i grew up with them in britain and turks like myself , we always said yes we are British , but ethnically or by race we are paki or turk . Do you say there is a cypriot race arbee ?/

tommy13


Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 23:23

Yes arbee , I respect your views and your entitled to your opinions and me to mine ... whats important is that we can sit and discuss things in a civilised manner and respect one anothers views ..

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 23:35

Congrats to Tommy and Arbee for the posts thoroughly enjoying reading the intelectual content from both of you.Dont profess to understand all of your comments but have managed to grasp the jist of most of them.What i find admirable though is the way that you are both conducting yourselves on the board,well done guys,

G.

tommy13


Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 23:41

I meant up to 100 yrs ,, since the british came 19th century , ive read of some families whos family goes back quite some way ..

Yes ive heard that veiw from some people , once while in the south in a bar, a GC asked me ' Re Kumbare , you is considering you is turkish or cypriot ,vich one ' he said ....I said im Turkish , he said ' u see , dis is the problem , if we say we all cypriot then no problem '

tommy13


Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 23:42

hey greylaq , cheers buddy gentleman should behave as such

tommy13


Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 23:59

no , it was a bottle of zivania.... and i cant remember the rest of the nite , but i woke up with that russian girl you introduced to me , lol

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
04/06/2009 00:09

Thank you both . You have behaved in such a civalised manner but taught us so much. Tommy you know I already love you. Arbee you both enlighten us and in a way that 6ms etc could not. Please dont get me wrong I love ms for his kn owledge as I do AJ for his and Dutch for the controversy but this is the most civilised I have seen. Thank you both and you are real gentlemen. It can be done guys no need to sling mud any more

tommy13


Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
04/06/2009 00:21

Aww lils ,

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2009 09:07

Dear Tommy13 re ,msg 33



>>I dont recognise CYPRIOT as an ethnic group <<



How "convenient".. ! Folk from Cyprus are Cypriots.. it's very simple.. Recent "arrivals" such as myself ( now departed!) aren't Cypriot - and that'll include Turks and Pontian Greeks..



>>I dont recognise un security council resolutions <<,



Again.. how "convenient" .. if not a little delusional..



>> that it ["TRNC"] exists in reality and has complete authority over its affairs .<<



Hmm, I'm sure that you know *that* isn't true.. TURKEY does..



>> The border is the border of my country , ill take you there and show you that you have to pass immigration control and exit the country TRNC .<<



I've passed over the UN designated cease fire crossing points many times, thanks, and DO NOT show my passport to be able to access the area of Cyprus under TR control..



There one can still meet REAL TCs - some of them who didn't even speak Turkish pre 74 - and don't recognise the "TRNC" as a "country