Orams: A Pain for us all perhaps??

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
06/05/2009 16:20

I have much sympathy for the position the Orams now find themselves in - there by the grace of God go I etc etc! Mind you, anyone daft enough to trust their future with Mrs Blair need their heads examining.



But for the rest of us the Orams case is, frankly, bad news - as it gives TRNC bad PR and will cause the property market to decline even further.



On another thread smeone asked the question "Why Don't the Orams sell up" What a good idea!!

Geoff

Famagusta

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/05/2009 16:23

Geoff.....the property market may still be busy....but it will be Russians , Israelis and other non-EU citizens whos assets can't be siezed and are looking for bargains in a seriously deflated market.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
06/05/2009 21:57

Fair comment, you may well be correct. I was referring to Brits in my earlier missive.

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
06/05/2009 22:11

There's too much doom and gloom surrounding this case.



1. The island is still divided and will remain so until a 'political' solution is found - be that a possible reunification or a probable federal '2 state' solution.



2. The case has to be heard again at the Court of Appeal in London may be in September or October this year.



3. The judgement which is likely to uphold the ruling of the ECJ then has to be enforced which could lead to an appeal to the House of Lords.



4. Of course if you have assets in any of the EU member states or even in the ETA (including Switzerland et al) there may be an issue. Each case still has to be brought to the courts and the merits evaluated.



5. This case is a shot across the bows of those who have invested or have contemplated investing and of course can affect Israeli or Russian as much as anyone else if they have assets in the EU.



Continued....2

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
06/05/2009 22:17

Continued 2....



6. The ROC cannot take each and every purchaser to court, nor will they. It is purely a political move to increase the pressure on the TRNC government to arrive at a resolution of the problem.



7. The 'Cyprus Problem' is more of a political impasse with economic consequences then an economic problem with political consequences. It can therefore only be logically resolved in the political arena.



8. Those who have bought or invested in TRNC should live in the moment, enjoy the homes and the lifestyle they chose. Many things can happen tomorrow but there is no gurantee of a tomorrow!



9. The only three certainties in life are death, tax and continuous change. The first we cannot do much about, the second we can employ our intelligence and wit to work through and the last we should learn to embrace.



In the short run we may have problems but they are simply challenges and in the long run.....well, we all know in the long run we are dead!

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
07/05/2009 00:04

There is indeed doom and gloom and I too am an optimist.

However it makes me very sad to see the past and current efforts deflated and against the wall. The whole island will remain in doom and gloom with, I am afraid the TRNC, suffering the most. I cannot see any probability of a solution without a serious change to the ROC stance and attitude.

I am afraid that those that feel the TRNC can survive as an ostrasized enclave are mistaken. I only hope that the Turkish support will continue to and keep the region above water.



On a positive note. I agree with Moover msg 5.. Make the very best of and value the life that you have.All the very best indeed to all the courageous people that have made the TRNC their home.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
08/05/2009 17:09

Re Msg #6: As one of those "courageous" people I hope Turkey insists that Talat and mates do a deal with the GCs, incl property. Then we can all sleep soundly. I personally would not buy property previously owned by GCs, and did not. Anyone who did - tough!

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
08/05/2009 17:34

What an I'm alright Jack attitude you have Geoff, sounding so smug that you were wise enough to buy pre 74 title deed or not at all, as the case maybe. Unfortunately there isn't enough of these title deeds to go round for the many thousands of Brits who have bought here. I am sure that the poor TRNC people thought it was their right to sell this land, when they have lost everything in the south. They had been told by their government that it was exchange land for what they had left behind. Yes lots of us I am sure would have resisted the temptation and looked at another country to purchase in, if only we had known there was a chance that the greek cypriot didn't agree to that exchange. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?



The butlers wife

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
08/05/2009 20:14

with a bit of luck the ROC veto (on behalf of France Germany and Poland) will finally pi** Turkey off to the point where she abandons EU entry and goes it alone, then we are all safe.



Me? I sleep safely, no half measures for me, did the complete sell up and invested here, none of this "might run back to Blighty" crap when the going gets tough...too many winging wimps on these sites with not enough bal*s to make a commitment to a new nation.



Spent time conversing with a mainlander today who "immigrated" here a long time ago, his view is that Turkey is simply making "nice noises" wrt the reunification talks, and there can and will never be any "reunification" as they all know what this in reality means. GC's in TC's out, forever.



Local TC asked the same, he replied that Turkey soon will become the new power base in the east without the help of those courting her like Uk and USA.



So, ingore the ROC antics completely, sell up in UK and occupy your nice TRNC property with impuni

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
08/05/2009 20:25

Elkiton,

What a refershing post to read afetr all the doom and gloom that gets spouted on here forget the gcs they are small beer and just an annoying little rash.Look at the bigger picture when Turkey go it alone and give the two finger salute to the e.u.

G.

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
08/05/2009 20:39

The GCs are like a misbehaving child the more attention you give it the worse it behaves.



Best to ignore and make them sit on the naughty seat, who knows maybe they might even grow up and behave like adults for once !

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
08/05/2009 21:09

Turkey may well take the potion to relinquish her asspiration to join the EU. In order to do this however she will need to make big and significant changes to her economic and trading structure.

Turkey has predominantly European trading partners. Many of her exporters already trade in the Euro.

Turkey would benefit greatly from easier and freeer trade with her current european trading partners. To alienate herself from the Europeans and the clear economic and trading power will have a negative effect upon her GDP. It is possible for Turkey to seek and secure new Eastern block and far eastern trade allegencies but this will take some time and could be quite risky whilst also trying to keep western alliances.



I am not at all sure how the TRNC will be placed on the Turkish political agenda over the next five years. I can see some walking on eggshells as the EU, UN and USA monitor the way the Turkish administration deal with middle eastern events and Cyprus settlement talks.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
09/05/2009 12:24

Re Msg #8: I don't deny being smug about it.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
09/05/2009 22:27

MESSAGE 14

"the end of the TRNC".



You live in Girne and under the control of the TRNC government, yet you let that same Govt that lets you live here know that you delight at the thought of its destruction.Shum mishtake shurely.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
09/05/2009 22:34

aceshigh , you obviously being from the south , ex girne , its a test case thats went pear shaped , much like your head , our dreams ,as no1 says are garanteed, TURKEY will decide the future of TRNC , not stavros , long live KKTC /////////////

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
09/05/2009 23:05

very encouraged by the positive spirit manifest in this thread

I am sure this was not intended by the claimant and his backers!



in the whole scheme of things the orams case is only likely to have

the most marginal impact on the future of the island,

and if anything making the chances of a gunshot marriage of the two parts

even more difficult to imagine than it is right now...



sad for izzet's blog but the recent attack by hackers is good news

since it reveals the other side at their very weakest and creepiest



perhaps they think posturing and the harrassment of pensioners

keeps them on track for something worthwhile



...rather than the reality of the road to nowhere

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
10/05/2009 09:33

I continue to read references to "exchange" land on this forum. The word esdeger (there is an accent under the letter s so it sounds as "sh") translates as equivalence. So the land was "given" by the government here to those dispossessed in the South to compensate them for the land they'd lost - an equivalent area of land, or thereabouts. The original GC owner would not have known/been consulted or have been considered relevant to the transaction. This is my understanding of what happened. If I am wrong could one of our Turkish Cypriot brothers or sisters pleases enlighten me.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
10/05/2009 10:21

elkiton

Re your message 9.

You and me are singing from the same hymn sheet.

AJ

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
10/05/2009 10:53

AJ and I am joining the chorus..and I have a fine voice

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
11/05/2009 10:12

fman,



you and others are perfectly correct about the non-recognition of any "exchange"



of course this is not the whole story:

esdeger land is cheaper and more is available for building...

with the realities on the island there is no mechanism where anyone takes it off you



similar remarks to this are either met with silence from the other side

or perhaps references to mr talat's drycleaning bills etc etc etc etc

jeffers


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 30

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 10:15

Geoff - your attitude is a little disappointing. You bought 'turkish title ' property and you're ok - how nice for you. Beside the British and other foreigners here on Esedger property - what do you think of the 200,000 TC's who live on this type of property?? Is it 'tough' for them as well ?

rcroton


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 192

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 11:19

Dont know why people are making such a big fuss. Do agree not good for the Orams, other than that sit back and enjoy N Cyprus

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 14:33

Sonic



"but this won't apply to foreigners" ,

What about blacks or jews or catholics or women or gays?



Think the ECHR will have a field day with that one.



They are not just "foreigners", they are also EU citizens.



Article 14 states that it is illegal for someone( "foreigner) to be treated differently to someone(TC) in an analogous situation.



There are occasions when discrimination is allowed but few and far between. An example would be a Sikh not allowed to become a motorcycle policeman because he wont/cant wear a helmet.

In such a case ,his situation is not analogous with a non sikhs.



The situation of TC and foreigner is entirely analogous Both are EU citizens.Both are on exchange land,both ,as EU citizens ,are under the Orams ruling ,and both must obey any ECHR ruling.