Papadopoulos out

spook


Joined: 23/01/2008
Posts: 244

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 20:27

Papadopoulos ousted in the first round of the elections in the south,

is this good news?

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 20:45

I think so spook,who won.

orangekazzie



Joined: 31/07/2007
Posts: 1091

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 20:51

I don't pretend to know anything about it but my OH tells me that it would be good for the North to have Papo in.

spook


Joined: 23/01/2008
Posts: 244

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 20:57

Kasoulides 33.51%

Christoias 33.29%

Papadoc 31.79%

Perry


Joined: 27/01/2007
Posts: 413

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 21:10

I guess it depends on your view. If you want it to remain split then he was the man - if you favour some sort of solution with the south then the other guys have a more moderate approach - see article on Reuters http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1643082220080217

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 21:17

hi

its good news in a way that the hardliner ex eoka member has finally been de throwned, now we will have to wait till feb 24th to see if communist leader christofias or the former foreign minister kassoulides both billed as the builder of bridges towards a resolve in the cyprus problem gets in

it will be interesting to see whoever wins what their idea of a resolve actually means, because they have publically said it will benift the greek cypriots if a resolve takes place, if a reunification does happen it should be done without sacaricfing the rights and livelyhoods of the turkish cypriots

We dont want another 60's and 70's situation taking place!!!!!!!!

if this cant be agreed then i say go down the independant self ruled road

i have seen press reports that even thou both of the remaining men want reunification they are seeking to take back famagusta and kyrenia regions and also want to extridite the turkish mainlanders who settled in north cyprus in the 70's aswell as the army which i dont agree with

but lets just wait and see whoever gets in to see what these men have to say and do about a peacefull and fair solution that both sides can agree on

regards

ukturk

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 21:21

Hi Karen,

My limited knowledge on the situation tells me that papadopolous is a staller,i dont know what your feelings are on seperation or de-facto republic ,but i honestly feel that there will be a more and quicker chance of a settlement with Kasoulides at the helm.

simma



Joined: 03/02/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 21:22

Two positive hits in one day. Things could be looking up.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 21:38

now the downside to papadopoulos not winning is if the other guys get in and they are the same, then us turkish cypriots will be back to square one because everyone and the world was starting to cotton on what papadopoulos was really like and north cyprus was gathering support from other e.u and un nations, so now it will take a further x amount of years to really get to know these other men's hidden agenda, and if its the same sh.t but diffrent smell then we are in for a longer bumpy ride!!!! imagine its like playing snakes and ladders you are half the way up the board and you roll a six and land on a snake and it takes you back the first square i will be personally gutted

its like what perry said its down to the cypriots who either want unification or two seperate countries

my final comments are its all fine and fine and well to build broken bridges but the people who are supposed to cross it dont trust it then their is no point in repairing it if its gonig to be all one way

ukturk

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 21:40

Given the common attitude of the Greek Cypriot population towards the north, I think we would be better off without them particularly, as I don't believe thenorth will ever have any peace with a Greek Cypriot majority - LONG LIVE THE TRNC!

regards

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 22:15

Hi Ukturk

your thoughts on the GC's idea of a solution sound quite chilling, having come to love the north how it is, particularly would n't want the Famagusta area to change to ressemble some resorts in the south. Would miss most of my favourite waiters if they were sent back too.

Not the sort of solution us brits want for our turkish cypriot friends, even if it would settle some of the property issues for us. not me anyway!

orangekazzie



Joined: 31/07/2007
Posts: 1091

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 22:23

I would like to see reunification but would be afraid it would be very one sided. My fear would be that the GC's would come up and literally take over pushing out the TC's.

Although the North has had a property boom during the past couple of years I don't want it to end up looking like Paphos/Polis/Peyia just one mass of concrete. They have ruined the South and I personally would hate the same to happen in the North.

Karen

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 23:16

hi pilgrim

it does dont it, and thats half of it, the land situation is a big factor its not like this happened a few years age, it was 34 years ago so how can you take people who have settled on both sides to get up and go once again no chance i say!!!

then send the turkish mainlanders back to turkey who have probabley 3rd - 5th who have migrated in to cypriots what do you say to them sorry you have lost your homes and pack your bags go back to turkey!!!!

and the army send them back too, if you calclate the whole of the army in north cyprus 70% are turks from turkey that would mean the army that would be left would be like a mere football team compared to the south cypriot army

and lets no forget the government how would this work, are you telling me the greek cypriots wold ever accept a turkish cypriot being the president of a united one cyprus!!!!

whoever knows me on this forum know how i feel about the situation even thou im a optimist and would like to see a 50/50 unified cyprus, i am also a realist and feel for one its gone on too long, second how can us turkish cypriots trust greek cypriots to a shared democracy when last time this happened greeks were killing turks and british peace keepers aswell as their own people, markrios followers clashing with samsun followers



so the best thing in my eyes are for two independent states having good liasons and trading with each other, embargos lifted and whoever lost land both sides are compensated and this to me is a peacefull resoultion

regards

ukturk

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 23:17

Don't forget guys the idea that they are all still looking toward is bizonal - bicommunal federation where the TC's will have their say and govern too. We all moan about the EU, but the GC's would not get away with another Akritas plan and all the other tactics they got up in the 60's of trying to drive the TC's out.



I guess it depends on what you want. If you want the TRNC to remain a quiet backwater that 'may' one day emerge with recognition following whatever path Turkey takes, then you would want Papadop to remain in power and as intransigent as ever so that one day partition may happen.



Alternatively if you want a re-unification, free unhindered movement across the island, EU benefits, faster prosperity, property values moving in line with the south etc etc then Papadop being kiched out is a good thing. Lets not forget the Turkish Cypriots would hopefully benefit most out of all this in terms of increased prosperity and opportunity for them as a people.



It's all well and good us relatively wealthy (by TC standards) foreigners enjoying our second properties and Efes on the terrace, thinking how quaint some of the locals are herding their Goats across the hills, but I'd quite like to see a lot of these people benefit from it within their lifetimes too! and not another 20 or 30 years down the line after partion and Turkeys EU entry.



All just my opinion of course and I stand to be corrected by the likes of UKTurk and others who know far more about what Turkish Cypriots want than I ever will.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
17/02/2008 23:53

UK turk

TRNC Recognition and free trade would be my optimum wish too.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
18/02/2008 00:26

As an Englishman with very limited knowledge on the cyprus problem i find it very hard to take sides on the issue and just want the best for all concerned.But if you look at the poll results it sems pretty obvious that the greek cyps are voting for candidates that are "pro solution"in fact 65% voted that way.



Every day i am learning more and more about the problems and over the last six months my opinions have changed from believing all the greek propaganda to disbelieving it.I think the the greek cyps have finally seen papadopolus for what he is,arrogant and authoritarian,and in my humble opinion have rightly ousted him.



As for the future i dont know,there are to many complex issues,to many bridges to build.One encouraging sign though is the fact that candidate kassoulides did say "if i win on Feb 25 i will pick up the phone and invite myself to mr talats house"not the type of statement that you would here from papadopolous. maybe encouraging signs but dont hold your breath,

Night Night and god bless,

Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
18/02/2008 11:57

Some great comments guys.

I think it will be interesting to see how Talat reacts. He will be forced to show his true colours. Does he eally want reunification. From where he stands, it's probably nice being the head of a state, even if it is unrecognised, not so nice finding yourself in the wilderness. He may have benefited from Papa's stance.

Certainly papa's stance has endeared the TRNC to the outside world (recently that is) and moved it closer to independence.

Any provisional plans drawn up to declare the TRNC's independence will have to be torn up, as the outside world will have to give time to the new man in charge to attempt reunification.



In any negotiation, it depends how far apart the two sides are in getting their needs met. If the GC's want Famagusta and Kyrenia, which would also certainly include the most beautiful beaches at Varosha, then I can't see them unifying. What are the TC's left with?

In any case, they have to go for the bi communal, bi zonal solution. If I understand this correctly, then vast numbers of people will be moving from one zone to another. Anything is possible, but this is a hard act to pull off. People don't normally move unless they have to. I was trying to think of where this has happened in modern times. The only place where I can think of is the Gaza strip, where Israel gave up some of it's land to the Palastenians. If I am right though, those Palestinians didn't come under Israeli rule. Gc's going to the North would not only move but come under TC governance, in the short term at least.

In any case, I agree with Millzer, if they want to reunite then there is a great chance to increase their wealth, however, I personally feel a little more vulnerable. Negotiation over land rights means that my property and others will come under the microscope.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
18/02/2008 12:11

I think also, that we cannot assume, that because Papa is being voted out, that GC's are voting for reunification. Quite often people are voted out because people just want a change. They might be bored with just seeing the same old face in charge. I believe that Papa has been in power for quite a long time.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
18/02/2008 14:40

hi guys

papa has been in power since 2003, so i would probabley agree with mark saying the gc's just want a change and not re-unification otherwise they would have agreed to the anan plan

its true reunification would increase their wealth and world postion but at what expense!!!!!

giving parts of famagusta and kyrenia back, also sending back all the turkish migrants and army i dont agree with

millzer i cant correct someones opinion cos everybody has right to their opinion who lives and loves north cyprus even thou the final decision is down to the north cypriot people, what i have gathered from a lot of turkish cypriots myself included dont really trust the greek cypriot administration and they refused the anan plan when the north cypriots were despearte to some sort of solution a lot of views has changed since then

we all would love to see the people benifit somehow and most have from the property and tourisim boom over the last few years i.e jobs, land sold for development etc

like i said we will have to wait and see what this new president will have to offer other than giving back land (not possiable)and the migrated turks and army expelled, aswell a equal share of the pie that benifits north aswell as the south

regards to you all

ukturk

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
18/02/2008 17:40

Do you not think though, that they refused Annan because they thought that they could get more back by going into the EU. Didn't Papa initially say he was for AP and re-unifying and then on the eve of the referendum Just days after they got into the EU he changed his mind and begged the GC's to reject it (with tears and a handkerchief to his eyes on TV!!!)



I think the GC's know that this is their last chance to sort it out, which in a way gives the TC's the upper hand in negotiations.



If Talat plays it right the TC's can still get a lot of what they want out of a re-unification agreement, and if put to the vote and TC's vote in favour then they achieve their aims. If the GC's vote against again, then thats the end of the line and partition becomes a real possibility, so the TC's could get a second bite of the cherry. Win win situation.



Having said that I can't see the TC's giving up Kyrenia, and I don't think they'd even consider that for a minute!! If I remember rightly, Guzelyert (Morphou) and Maras (Varosha) were two of the main areas to go back to GC administration. I guess everyone will have to accept some compromises.



An interesting year ahead methinks.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
18/02/2008 22:23

"the time has come to overcome all that divided the cypriot people especially in the last few years" encouraging words from Kasoulides after yesterdays victory.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
18/02/2008 22:44

millzer

one word i will say PROPAGANDA!!!!!!!

of course they refused the anan plan for the pure fact that they thought they can have it all their way because they would be in a much stronger postion with the e.u backing them

papa should have been up for a oscar with them crocadile tears very convining,

why do you think he was all for the anan plan mate? shall i tell you why because it was all his master plan to appease the e.u so their membership would run without any hicups, he never had the intention of accepting the plan, remember this is a hardliner and a eoka member with their number one slogan 'a good turk is a dead turk' so do you think he would have ever done a deal with the turkish cypriots when he used refuse to even come to the table to have direct negotians with denktash and now talat



of course its coming to a head with sorting it out and everybody is starting to see the gc's true colours but the tc's will never have the upper hand the for pure fact they are not a reconised country and south cyprus are in the e.u club so their voice however small will be heard and taken note off

i agree there must be comprimise on behalf for a sloution, but once again a comprimise does not mean take and no give, my family are originally from larnaca (skele) and we have not heard once that gc's will give back their land, so that means they take their original land in the 60's and 70's and they also want their adopted land in iskele/famagusta does not seem quite fair to me

regards

ukturk

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
18/02/2008 23:06

Hi UK,



Absolutely bang on agree with you 100% about Papadop', and that was in effect wot I was saying.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
18/02/2008 23:49

Great to see you back in full flow again erkan,do you do a sommersault after every masterpiece like your mate robbie keane,

Regards,

Paul.

simma



Joined: 03/02/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
18/02/2008 23:56

followed by a klinsman lol

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
19/02/2008 10:38

hi

thanks paul, yes my creative juices are flowing once again!!!!!, and yes i do a sommersault followed by a klinsman dive!!!!! lol

two of my fav spurs strikers

regards to you all

ukturk

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
19/02/2008 20:25

Then after all that do a sneeze like sick note anderton.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
19/02/2008 20:34

Just read that if papa had won the election the u.n. were ready to extradite themselves from the situation,

Regards,

Paul.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
19/02/2008 20:36

Just wondered what the feelings were among the turk cyps.Talat welcomes the result.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
20/02/2008 00:12

Does anyone know why there are issues with the pentadaktylos mountains.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/02/2008 01:04

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/john_akritas/october_2007/the_occupied_mountain.htm

Greek Propaganda as you can see, but gives you some insight into GC feeling regarding the pentadaktylos mountains.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/02/2008 01:19

The discussion accompanying this article makes interesting reading also Paul.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
20/02/2008 20:14

Thanks Sue,

Very one sided as you say.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
20/02/2008 20:45

DIKO are to throw their weight behind Demetris Christofias in sundays election offering their 112 votes.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
23/02/2008 00:37

Demeteis Christofias is the bookies favoruite to win sundays election.Would it make any difference to the north which of the two candidates won.

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
23/02/2008 11:01

hi dodger



I think that whoever now wins on Sunday will only cause more problems as I am sure the ROC is not yet prepared for a separation. I also think that Kosovos' independence, instead of helping the TRNC, may create a problem if the TRNC wanted a separation because there's quite a few countries in Europe who have their own secessionist problems - eg. Spain, the Baques. The one saving grace is that the TRNC has been a de facto separate state for the last 34 years. It doesn't matter how amenable these two remaining candicates are to opening negotiations again because I don't think either of them would have a mandate to negotiate a permanent separaion. Any joining together of the two would have to give the north a veto over any policies that the south wanted that isn't in the interest of the north and this was precisely the problem they had under the 1964 agreement.



The other problem the TRNC has is that IT'S BEING USED AS A PAWN in negotiations between Turkey and Europe and Russia and the United States ultimately.

Regards

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
23/02/2008 15:26

Hi Moira,

And there was me getting all up beat and hopeful.As usual its all crystal ball stuff,and i dont think anyone can say hand on heart what the outcome will be.I do think that this is the make or break year though.Its worth noting though that the germans are waiting in the wings and see the north as "a window of oppurtunity",

Regards,

Paul.

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
23/02/2008 15:45

Hi Paul

The upbeat part is that at the worst we'll, selfishly, have the north to ourselves!!

regards

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
23/02/2008 16:40

Interesting article from the International Crisis Group. Gives some good indicators as to what needs to happen from both communities.



http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=5255&l=1