The Cyprus Question

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 02:02

Don't listen to me, listen to what they have to say, then read between the lines.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6ASnTbsJC4



Lem

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 02:28

Thanks Lem - listened to it. Interesting and will post tomorrow. Knackered!



J

x

zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 02:29

THE CYPRUS TRAGEDY





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlN0oUVq6gA

zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 02:34

SUCH A BIG ISLAND



enough room for every 1

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 03:39

My dad was here 50/60 and 70's. I was bailed out 74 at the age of 11.

I chose the North because my best mate and advisor, harped on about the best part of the island and the people.

He has expanded to me on many occasion in recent time how the turks were treated by the greeks. An Irishman albeit a youth at the time, from the west coast.

An Engineer in his service of 38 years. All eyes, ears and smell: called communication today.

Many a book has been written on the genocide and political and pure terrorist hatred of the time.



But it is Cyprus. And belongs to Cyprus. And requires Cyprus. The people of Cyprus. North and South and East and West and not the EU.



Let Cyprus decide or remain devided.

daffodils


Joined: 11/11/2008
Posts: 184

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 06:56

Hi Lemtich,



Thanks for posting that. It must be obvious to most people on here what the view of Parliament is, except of course, those that do not want to see. I think it is time we should be ignoring and refusing to reply to all the negative posters (they have their own agenda's). I am genuinely sorry for all the people who have lost money in North Cyprus, through underhand dealings, lies etc; (there by the grace of god go all of us!) All the people who have a genuine vested interest in North Cyprus, should post positively every day, Don't forget postitive postings will get in the search engine ratings as well as negative one's

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 09:48

Hi Lem. Thats a good link - it's the first time I've seen it.



Interesting points of note were that Foreign Secretary Milliband called for both leaders to reach a 'political settlement' regarding the land and property issues - words like 'compromise' were used. Another MP also mentioned the need for Turkey in 'NATO' and another mentioned that they 'key' to a settlement is Ankara.



I personally think there's a lot going on behind the scenes with various countries involved in all this. It's not just about two people trying to reach a settlement.



I think we could all be in for a surprise......

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 10:48

If they truly want a solution then they must give the TC’s something positive rather than a continued kick in the face. One thing is certain; they cannot have a solution unless the TRNC is recognised, at least for an hour: this is something the GC’s have totally refused. What guts me is that the ‘Republic of Cyprus’ is no more legal than the TRNC. When they removed the TC’s from parliament and annulled the thirteen articles, (the Tc’s did not walk out and they did not rebel, that is total lies.) they tore up the Zurich agreement and in so doing, nullified the constitution: this has never been rectified. So, will two illegal states make a whole?



Troodo.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 11:25

Lemtich..Thank you for the informative link.

It is encouraging to see the House debating the Cyprus Issue. It indicates that the matter is indeed of importance to the UK.

MR M appears well informed on the issues and is correct i his asspiration for political settlement. Such settlement must indeed come from both sides.

I believe that the UK government are very familiar with the ROC pedantics of veto veto veto, civil litigation , embargo and deprivation in order to achieve their own goals of TRNC destruction.



Political momentum must now increase and all parties including UN, EU and USA must bring pressure to bear.

I only hope that the Court of Appeal will find just cause to halt the Appostolides case. This civil litigation is certainly hindering progress to settlement.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 11:37

Dear Waz,



Mr Milliband has confirmed his woeful lack of understanding situations in Georgia and is not someone I'd be hoping will be FS much longer..



In the meantime I'd refer you to his departments advisory re Cyprus



"I believe that the UK government are very familiar with the ROC pedantics of veto veto veto, civil litigation , embargo and deprivation in order to achieve their own goals of TRNC destruction."



??



1/ The UN Security council voted that "TRNC" was legally invalid - do check WHO voted for this resolution..the UK did..



2/ So any "embargo" was effectively made world -wide by the actions of .... TCs... or was it Turkey..



3/ As I keep saying to you .. it is the legal actions that have kept TR negotiating the fate of TCs via their "nominee"... it is the legal actions that drive things on - as the UK doesn't want to have to enforce RoC civil judgements..it is the legal actions that got TR to order the opening of the gates in April 2003..

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 12:08

Well Arbee, when people like you have your head stuck so far in the sand there is no point worrying about a solution. Another GC told me that the 13 articles were only shelved. For forty years – get real. Perhaps a little investigation on your part might take off the blinkers, but seeking the truth is not a GC trait unfortunately. So carry on believing your fabricated history books, if it makes you feel better. Or you could admit what you truly feel, there is no room for a Turk in Cyprus.



Troodo.

Sorry folks, but these guys get on my tits.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 12:23

Arbee,

Nuts!



Troodo

AndyR



Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 317

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 12:27

My heart sinks when I read these threads.



What's done is done. It doesn't matter now who did, said, tore up or walked out of what. Look at Northern Ireland and south Africa. They solved their immense respective differences by looking forwards, not backwards. While both still have problems to be dealt with they are at least continuing to move towards genuine integration of the different population groups where no-one is judged based on their ethnic or religious group membership.



I would love to see threads on this forum where people look at how the situation can be resolved peacefully for ALL cypriots, insteads of attempting to apportion blame in an attempt to prove one side right or the other wrong.



I'm moving to Cyprus next year. I don't want to live in the South and I don't want to live in the North. I want to live in Cyprus!

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 12:44

Andy,

You are right. So why not recognise the TRNC, lift the embargos and support direct flights, allowing the TC’s to negotiate on a level playing field?



Troodo.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 13:12

Andy,

In South Africa, they had truth and reconciliation. In Northern Island, there are still nasty problems. Truth and reconciliation might well help the situation here, but why should the GC’s agree to that?



Troodo.

AndyR



Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 317

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 13:18

Troodo - "Truth and reconciliation might well help the situation here, but why should the GC’s agree to that? "



I'd turn the question around, why should ANYONE not agree to truth and reconciliation? The opposite of both is unpleasant and surely can't be what anyone wants.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 13:19

Andy,

What's done is done. It doesn't matter now who did, said, tore up or walked out of what. The UN resolutions are not written on stone, with the right good will they can be change.



Troodo.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 13:42

Andy,

I'd turn the question around, why should ANYONE not agree to truth and reconciliation?

Sad as it is, because they have too much to hide from their own people.



The opposite of both is unpleasant and surely can't be what anyone wants.

Exactly, but it would take a saint to undo all the lies and propaganda and admit this problem started way back in the 1950's. There are reams of written evidence of forcing the TC’s from their land and attempted genocide, they will never admit to that, it would show their own claims up for what they are: malicious greed. But of course that has to be brushed under the carpet to make people feel better about living here, in any part of Cyprus.



Troodo

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 14:39

Troodo well said..

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 15:43

Indeed Arbee, there are fanatics on every side. What choice did the ordinary TC have?

The GC’s wanted to be part of Greece. Why, when they are not even genetically aligned and Greece did not even want them, beats understanding. There was no place for TC’s in there plans, hence the persecution.

Had this not happened, there would be no Cyprus problem. But it did, so what were the TC’s suppose to do in this situation: line up in the streets to be ethnically cleansed? Instead, they decided to defend themselves, - 50,000 with broomstick handles against how many thousands of GC’s and Greeks - and for the fanatics they were easy meat: so, who was responsible for this mess in the first place?

I will say again, as I have said on other posts, in the 1929 census on Cyprus 51% of the population were TC’s and they owned 61% of the land. Don’t add up in my book,

without drastic interference the laws of nature suggest that something went amiss, perhaps you would like to enlighten me.



Troodo

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 17:30

troodo,

arbee has just given you evidence of TC paramilitaries murdering numerous TC who did not go along with their aims. Are you saying that was OK? Cant you feel the winds of change?

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 19:18

I am not interested in spot the atrocity game: both sides did bad things. What I am saying is, had the GC’s not pushed for union with Greece and settled for independence as agreed, the ordinary TC’c would not have given their fanatics the backing and possibly those events would not have taken place.

Come to think about it, the GC’s word does not seem to count for much. First, they agree to the Zurich treaty, and if I remember rightly, they told the world they would back the Annan plan. But that’s alright then.

You cannot pretend anymore that the GC’s did not attempt genocide, the cat is out of the bag, the written evidence is legion. The problem is they do not show that they would not attempt to try again, given half the chance. If this was not so, why do they kick the TC’s at every opportunity?

And no, I have seen no evidence of a change of wind, the Orams case is just the latest attack.

Troodo.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 22:00

It would appear it depends on where you get your imformation from.

Now where is the rest of the maufactured rubish?



Troodo.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
21/05/2009 22:44

That is what you guys from the Cyprus forum always say when things get too hot.



Sorry for this folks,

Good night.



Troodo.

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 00:53

Happy Days, campers!



This parliamentary little link has got our southern friends a buzzing on the Cyprus Forum.



http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus24096.html



Interesting that the most pro greek poster on that BB lives and owns property



in the TRNC, bit of an old Jew hater as well.



But the rest of the other GC posters are so shit scared of her they have never



questioned her creditionals.



The old Kyrenia Witch Queen!



As I said. Happy Days



Lem

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 00:57

well done my lovey lem. A bit of a stir good on you xxxxx

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 01:19

Thank you Lilli.



Its amazing how many Cyprus Forum posters there are on this BB.



Its not politically correct to admit as a GC you have bought land in north cyprus but they have, loads of them, they never pass up an opportunity for a good deal and yet they post on Cyprus Forum about how the TCs have exploited GC land.



Cyprus Forum is clever, the boss posts as a member. Always careful to not be too vehement, he cleverly



leaves that to the Kyrenia Queen, the GC female champion.



But he does know how the Cyprus44 was pulled down off the internet



As we do.



Be careful what you wish for.



Lem

littlejohn


Joined: 09/03/2009
Posts: 316

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 01:23

Troodo,

you are wasting your time with these people.

They have a very efficient propaganda machine and will never see the Turks as their equals.



How can anyone defend the likes of Makarious , Grivas, Samson?

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 03:06

Arbee, Given that this is a Forum and not a court of law you don't actually need proof of anything to write it down, especially if it is an opinion.

Regardless of what side anyone is on there always seems to be a way to wind people up. I will admit there have been several comments directed at me that have touched a nerve but i have always (well almost always) managed to calm down and remind myself that if the person was talking to me face to face they may well have a smile on their face and i would know they are either joking or trying to irritate me.

Even if this is not the case i do try to think of it that way.

Hope this helps in some small way !!!

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 08:28

Interesting to note that the commons debate was posted (with much acidic comment) by somebody calling themselves John Akritas. Perhaps some relation????



Could Arbee enlighten us and explain what the original Akritas plan was?

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 08:57

Goodness.... a GC avoiding answering a 'difficult' question? Surely not. You must have a history book there somewhere Arbee, or don't GC history books go back beyond 1974?

tommy13


Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 09:15

Greek animosity towads Turks has a long deep rooted history . the 'chip on their shoulder' is somewhat easily understood and perhaps i think rightfuly so for them with a simple overview of some historical facts, for they were the forefarthers of many of the 'firsts' of humanitiy. Traditional Western Culture is said to have been created by three main historical factors: ancient Greece which influenced the Roman Empire, and Christianity. As such, it is also known by the terms "Greco-Roman culture", " Judeo-Christian culture", or "Judeo-Hellenic-Christian culture". So europe & the west owes much to the greeks and todays european/western culture is indebted to them. However 2 major events occured that 'threw a clanger in the works' . First was the advent of Islam and the second was the appearnace of the Turks in anatolia then subsequently europe proper. For they reigned supreme until Islam & the Turks came along in history.Turks adopted and spearheaded the Islamic cause. So eversince they

tommy13


Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 09:24

the Turks appeared , the greek world was conquered and remained under Turlish Islamic supremacy for almost a millenium . 'The turkish yoke around their necks' was total , and when 'Constantinople' fell , so did their last ounce of pride. Greece itself has only been indepedent from the turks for only 180 yrs or so . after centuries of ottoman rule . Anyways , i understand why they hate the word Turk and so should anyone else who attempts a breif glimpse at the history of the region. Therefore todays animosity is far deeper than just the 'Cyprus Issue' .They still consider Istanbul occupied and 'stolen land' some even harbour neo hellenic dreams of one day gettig it back , let alone North Cyprus, They will always want to cleanse the 'Ottoman' Turkish stain on their once backyard.

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 09:29

Arbee - errrr- my bluff being called????? Where and how exactly? You are just digging a bigger hole. Either answer the original question and stop making a laughing stock of yourself or carry on being a donkey.



Bet you don't answer the question.

tommy13


Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 09:31

I dont know this can be reconciled , how 2 peoples can put differences behind them for the sake of future peace. I dont know under which system this could be achieved. Maybe if Turks converted to Orthodox chrisitianity or greeks to Islam may be a solution , on paper that is .. Its difficult for a defeated people to forgive and forget , it would be difficult for you too if you were the 'Losers' in any event.. Cant change whats happened now , Only choice is to think and act for the future , To greek readers , I wish somehow , somewhere we can put our difference behind us , agree to disagree , find a solution and work together for future peace and happiness.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 09:50

Arbee,

After ignoring the bulk of my posts yesterday, I thought you would have the sense to quit while you were ahead. Incidentally, the figures for the 1929 census seem to show the TC’s at around 31%, a significantly higher proportion of the population than the now quoted 18.9%. Time to step back to allow another of your bigoted racist mates to take over, I think.



Troodo.



PS. Do not quote me on this, but I suspect the true genetic make up of Cypriots includes a spot of Jewish blood. Tell that to your racist mates on the Cyprus forum.

Warbabies


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 165

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 10:56

Arbee - you are talking twaddle. Jetski hasn't made any claim about anything so he doesn't need to back anything up with links to biased info pages. He just asked you what you knew about the Akritas plan and you are avoiding answering the question.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 11:15

Arbee

At least you admit there were a few TC's around, that is an improvement.

Just like most of my other posts, you are shying away from the Akritas scandal.

Turkish propaganda no doubt.



Troodo.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 11:43

Arbee,

You are priceless, I will discontinue the wind up, I only did it because you refuse to answerer other points. Any fool can get the census information as they can a transcript of the Akritas plan.



Bye for now.



Troodo.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 11:49

Msg9 arbee.....what a load of rubbish....I've sectioned people under the MHA for less than that. It only takes another UN resolution to recognise the TRNC!

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 13:27

Arbee,patronising again! UN resolutions are one of my forte's ! You talk about China and human rights in the same sentence,and the World goes to the Olympics in Peking......think about what you have just written......I'm laughing at YOUR ignorance!

blinky



Joined: 07/12/2008
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 13:36

UN resolution 12345:- arbee!! you being an 'entrepeneur' are you making up your own resolutions??

Their's nothing worse than a 'know all' so get off your orange box and 'BOG OFF' back to your den!!.

blinky



Joined: 07/12/2008
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 13:59

He He, this is easy!!!!

well done mucca!!

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 14:11

Msg 62 Arbee....bit too hot in the kitchen for you ? Take a piece of advice....please go and represent the Chinese by all means ! You will find left wing extremists to your liking by the sounds of things.

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 14:49

Arbee re Msg 53. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!!..... loads of forumers will have looked at the Akritas plan on the net - and it's all there, and we've succeeded in winding you up my citrus obsessed friend! My weekend will now be even more joyful. I shan't be looking at this thread again so you can forget any personal insults. LOL

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 15:39

Good God Arbee are you still gabbling on: must be a school holiday.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 20:32

Tony Blair said.........



That Turkey in the EC is fundamental to a Middle East settlement .(and therefore The Cyprus Problem)



Milliband said there must be International Pressure to support Christophias and Talat in their negotiations to settle The Cyprus



Problem. It is fundamental to Turkeys admission to the EC.



Obamah made Turkey his first overseas visit, and stressed the importance of their joining the EC.



WE ALL KNOW IT CANNOT HAPPEN, WITHOUT A RESOLUTION TO THE CYPRUS PROBLEM.



Both Christophias and Talat, say a resolution to the Cyprus problem, is critical, this time round.



Justice Wyn Williams is about to pronounce judgement on direct flights to The TRNC,



The ECJ threw a very timely spanner in the works, with their judgement to The ORAMS issue.



Does't this strike anyone, as the promised wave of pressure, from The International Community that will finally force through a



settlement to The Cyprus Problem.



Just my naive ramblings....thats all.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
22/05/2009 20:33

cont



Have a happy bank holiday, you all.



wynpernel.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
23/05/2009 00:11

I cannot hope to match some of the very well-informed contributors to this thread:

it is very likely therefore, many of my ideas about cyprus are hopelessly partisan and naiive



there is nonetheless entertainment value in watching rag-tag-and-bobtail supporters of the gc side

get so very steamed up and cross simply because, for all their moral certainties and eloquence

and whatever they may do, are in reality totally unable to take back the northern strip of cyprus

or even to stir the barest flicker of interest from a small minority of "44" members,

and instead may only achieve a far narrower success by impoverishing the north cypriots

and terrorising elderly british pensioners and the like



sorry indeed if I damn with faint praise

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
23/05/2009 00:56

We all know that there will be a political solution. Law in this case is just a tool to pressure one side or another.



The critical issues are:



1. Position of Turkey with respect to the EU.



2. Whether the two parties have enough political capital to get an agreement by year end.



3. Whether there is a solution to the land and property issue.



4. Turkey's role as the 2nd largest member of NATO



There are so many variables that any outcome is hard to predict, save to say that all parties have noted that there is a need for a solution at the earliest!



How this will affect any expats with property in TRNC is another question.



Here's a case study link to the Cyprus Question:



http://www.yale.edu/macmillan/pier/resources/lessons/case_study.htm



I want to be an optimist and so I hope for the best for the TRNC and all those who have made it their home!

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
23/05/2009 12:18

Lemtich wrote: “Its not politically correct to admit as a GC you have bought land in north cyprus but they have, loads of them, they never pass up an opportunity for a good deal and yet they post on Cyprus Forum about how the TCs have exploited GC land.”



you posted this just after last orders i think. In the cold light of day please expand Id love to know where all these GCs have been buying in the TRNC. Before 1974 yes, since then i don't think so!

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
23/05/2009 13:45

moover 321 may 2009:

"we all know there there will be a political solution"



david milliband may 2009:

"this is the last chance"



I am always an optimist, me



andre

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
23/05/2009 15:16

It seems like the last chance saloon! I just hope everyone in a position to make this happen seizes the moment and for once puts the interests of the TC and GC people collectively ahead of any geo-political game!

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
23/05/2009 17:45

moover 321 resident in eu:



I'd almost agree with you but would put it slightly differently:



It seems like the last chance saloon! I just hope everyone in a position to make this happen

seizes the moment and for once puts the interests of the north cyprus people and residents

collectively ahead of any geo-political game!