Talat to give land back

raybo


Joined: 06/08/2007
Posts: 175

Message Posted:
01/06/2009 21:16

Mr talat said it is inevertable that land will have to be given back to gc in any settlement deal,

wonder what and where famagusta, verosha, kyrenia, guzulyert, any ideas?

ray.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
01/06/2009 21:19

gc will probably be thinking the same thoughts , relax

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
01/06/2009 21:46

I think it is a pefectly reasponsible negociating position



the two areas featured in the obsolete annan proposals were guzelyurt and varosha

the former had a large gc population and is a valuable watered area,

while varosha was the prestigeous resort situated between famagusta and the green line



there could even be restitution of a few former properties, presently lost to both populations



without a crystal ball I can only imagine the very many other concessions available from the trnc side,

in return for total autonomy and an acknowlegement of the turkish guarantee required of the south cypriots



with flexibility and an understanding of the absolute security needs of the people of north cyprus,

I am sure a reunification agreement is very possible, if only in a theoretical sense



the obvious alternative will be continuing integration of north cyprus into the turkish state

with recognition and accepance of the north slow and hesitant, if inevitable in the long run

Aslan


Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 757

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 10:28

I thought the GC's had the opportunity for Varosha and Guzelyurt land returns if they had voted yes to the Annan Plan, maybe I am wrong but if that was the case and they voted overwhelmingly against the plan then surely they missed out on the opprtunity and any new deal would not involve the land as they obviously did not want it in the first place.

jock1



Joined: 06/01/2008
Posts: 3786

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 10:34

Boring......................

pinkchilli


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 689

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 10:38

How about a villa or two in Sadrazamkoy!

Lambousa Gordon


Joined: 03/11/2007
Posts: 1992

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 11:01

It's extremely unlikely we'll move very far from the provisions in the Annan Plan.



It was, after all, compiled after great investigation and effort by the UN (with 40+ years experience of the CyProb) and was supported by the International Community.



Expect negotiations to continue, if not in name then certainly in principle, on its very detailed precepts.

catalkoykid


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 1190

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 11:01

No surrender, they had their chance give the greedy bubbles FA

thetruth


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 268

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 11:08

when thay talk about giving guzulyurt back to the greeks,what about the people who live there.will thay be moved,who will foot the bill for that?also many work on the land there how will thay find work anywere else?

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 11:22

the truth...well said, what about all those that earn their living from Guzulyurt...bloody greedy gc's, as usual they want everything..I say give them nothing.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 15:02

our tc friends feel that girne will say but anything else could well be up for a deal with the south.

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 15:31

Hmmm yes so Girne will be a nice little 'enclave' then, surrounded by the Greeks, just like the old days.

harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 18:09

reply to mssg 9



(No surrender, they had their chance give the greedy bubbles FA)



if your talking about the annan plan have you read it? the plan was put to the people of both sides both sides had to agree. the south did not agree to it if you read the plan you will understand why.



who do you think needs a solution the most the south or the north?



personally i think the north does (no solution no EU for turkey)



im sure there are a lot of people on here who will diasgree but thats whats these forums are for.

harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 18:12

reply to mssg 10



if you are cypriot you will get compensated.



i cannot see either side compensating any non cypriot.

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 18:12

And Europe will do what for Turkey ???

ROBIN HOOD


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 238

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 18:59

I fail to see that anything has been agreed in the talks. Except, maybe to write the minutes of the discussions on A$ paper. The next meeting will decide what language the minutes will be in. After that, important issues relating to the the colour of the ink and typeface will be discussed in the committee stages.

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 20:09

Here's the link if anyone wants to read the exact article! Hope you'll find it useful



http://en.timeturk.com/talat-says-land-concessions-unavoidable-in-cyprus-deal--20603-haberi.html

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 20:15

What he actually said was: The Turkish side have previously agreed to the 29% + of the land formula! That means that the TC side with currently 37% will give up 8% or less. In retun they get total control of the remaining land in a Federal two state set-up!



Given that only 20% of the population of Cyprus is TC - not a bad outcome! BUT and it is a BIG BUT - there is no deal on the table! Only 'hopes' of a deal by year end!



Upshot - nothing has changed to date! It is just a political move to test the waters. It is likely that 29% will be the opening gambit - where we end up who knows!

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 20:16

The UN has extended the mandate!



"The Security Council resolution extending the mandate of the 1,100-member UN peacekeeping mission until Dec. 15 strongly urges Talat and Christofias “to increase the momentum in the negotiations to ensure the full exploitation of this opportunity to reach a comprehensive settlement.” The council reiterated that a settlement should be based on two strong separate zones with an overarching federal government".

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 20:31

harry roberts:



did you ever get your deeds through for the property you say you bought in south cyprus?

catalkoykid


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 1190

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 20:34

no hes not got deeds, just sick because he has paid treble the price mug

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 22:55

arbee,



as you know in your heart of hearts the really critical factor

is not actually the small print of any gimcrack land-for-"peace"-deal,



but whether the people of north cyprus feel quite safe with your lot

in control of the island once again...



if they don't, and it's not up to us, then it is all a waste of time

and both cyprus states will make their their own way in the world:



a jolly practical answer to the "problem" if you ask me!

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 23:05

ps



unless I am very much mistaken,

talat has no intention whatsover of giving any land away

without a recognition deal...



meanwhile the public just voted in the uncompromising ubp

who would never allow him to anyway

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 23:15

Aslan wrote: "I thought the GC's had the opportunity for Varosha and Guzelyurt land returns if they had voted yes to the Annan Plan, maybe I am wrong but if that was the case and they voted overwhelmingly against the plan then surely they missed out on the opprtunity and any new deal would not involve the land as they obviously did not want it in the first place."

If we are to negotiate with them then we must understand them. Of course they wanted them back, but their leadership persuaded them the deal was not good enough and they should hold out. That's been the mentality on both sides for decades.

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 23:23

deecyprus wrote: "the truth...well said, what about all those that earn their living from Guzulyurt...bloody greedy gc's, as usual they want everything..I say give them nothing."



hmm, funny the people you are talking about voted to pack up and leave Guzelyurt last time they were asked. That's because they are astute TCs and not Anatolian settlers. They knew they would be looked after.

As for your ".bloody greedy gc's, as usual they want everything..I say give them nothing." comment - Can you say that with a straight face when the chances are you're living on their property?

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 23:48

millzer wrote: "Hmmm yes so Girne will be a nice little 'enclave' then, surrounded by the Greeks, just like the old days."

Completely wrong I'm afraid. Turkish-backed TCs seized Hilarion and the high ground of pass north of Chiklos in the 1960s. After that, GCs used to travel in UN convoys for protection against TC attack on their way to work in Nicosia in the morning and again in the afternoon when they returned to Kyrenia. Eventually the GCs managed to bulldoze the new Nicosia road that goes over Buffavento way. Both TC and GC communities lived in Kyrenia until 1974 with no major problems.

Who on earth told you Kyrenia was a Turkish enclave?

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 23:53

arbee this coupled with a little understanding. I honestly feel that we have no understanding and how can weYou must understand from thier point of view they have bought here and of course they are scared. It could be a lot to lose but my opinion and this is based on words of friends in high places that next year will see a turning point for us all. Its my understanding that turkey wii join the eu and cyprus this side will be with it.We dont not know what is going on behind closed doors but Im led to beleive that europe has more doors to open. I know a lot of tcs and bits will not welcome europe but in my beleife we will be a province of turkey and will have to abide/

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
02/06/2009 23:53

catalkoykid wrote: "no hes not got deeds, just sick because he has paid treble the price mug"



Which is pretty much how thinking people who own esdeger property are feeling now.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 00:02

not many poloticians on here , to much debating still to be done , lets wait and see ??

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 00:07

arbee wrote: "It is very difficult to have debate with the majority of Brit expats in the North as most of them have too much too lose to see things re the Cyprob with any great clarity and are generally only interested in thier own little world"

So much truth in just one sentence. Alternative views have previously been hounded off the BB.

BTW I may be a raving Kemalist but I'm a democratic one. Just like the finest meze, Cyprus is best with a bit of Turkish and a bit of Greek mixed together. After all people can pick whatever they fancy.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 00:13

Andre



No offence ,but why bother.

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 00:17

arbee,

Last time I was down Guzelyurt/Morphou I got in with a large group of Turkish Cypriots with their drums out for some football match or other. They told me most of the TCs there were originally from Larnaca so possibly Annan would have given them the chance to get back home. These were young progressive Cypriots who were probably babies or small kids in 1974 but they seemed very keen for a solution.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 00:35

arbee, your dreaming mate ///////// turkey hold all the aces ? one day you greeks will wake up and smell the coffee , turkish of course,

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 00:43

Arbee I bow to your knowledge because you have so much. I have heard what I heard from people in high places some come to the restaurant from un and various embassies and from mp friends in uk. Coupled with various conversations you do get a feel. others from Ankara/ When you add it together you do get a feel for it all. I cant say all I now that they do know. Arbee I am often slated on here espically as I give kisses so can i give you one kiss. Please keep us informedx You can always email me

cypwine


Joined: 09/05/2009
Posts: 177

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 01:07

msg 30



well said arbee, some people just cant bear to see both sides of any story!

unlike you and ilovekibris.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 01:17

Bloody hell! 134 posts in 21 days; Arbee certainly is prolific but is/are he/she Pikey,6m, the Pinarbasi pyromaniac in disguise? come to think of it not too sure about cypwine and ilovekibris!

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 01:30

Hi news god my fingers do the walking. i know I have been slaled a fair bit in the last two days for posting and giving kisses. When I get in from work this relaxes me and I guess i just get arried awy. Tomorrow its off. I cant beleive anybody counts expect pinkchiili I never ever check I just love to talk. You knoe=w I get customers every night thamh my god. I say the same thing to the same questions Im asked. how long have you been here what made you come here ete. So please forgive me for onversation cyber style and light relief. I will not be back so you can all rest asured x

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 01:37

Lilli; don`t do it!



This forum needs nice people.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 01:40

Oh news you restore my faith and i dont care how many kisses i give you as you deserve them xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 01:47

Liz - please see my response on different thread.



Don't you dare!!



Rowloo - you've got those bloody glasses on again



J

harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 11:24

Yes i have got the deeds whats your point?

girne


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 12:05

where do you get this rubbish info from!!!!!!

harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 12:56

reply to mssg 22



Yes i probably did pay more but it was clear legal title was that not worth paying more for?

harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 14:26

And Europe will do what for Turkey ???



Obviously something if there was nothing in it for turkey why would they want to join?



turkey is going through many reforms and are making lots of effort to become eu members and personally i would like turkey to be sucsessfull in its application.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 18:40

harryroberts



"And Europe will do what for Turkey ???

Obviously something if there was nothing in it for turkey why would they want to join? "



Turkey will want, like the others ,The Common Agricultural Policy,Trade. Grant aid. Vast areas of Turkey will qualify.



The mood in Europe is all wrong ,most think expansion is already to much.Britain was one of the main supporters of an enlarged Europe. France and Germany were not so enthusiastic and did not allow the imigration that we did. They realised that cheap labour was not the answer in competing with the rest of the world and socially a heavy price would be paid.



Turkey will not decide whether it joins the EU ,that decision has, I believe, been already made,and has the support of the bulk of the population of western Europe.

Secretly I think that some EU countries are only too glad that Greece and ROC can be used as proxies to impede Turkeys EU negotiations,thereby not sacrificing there own relations and trade.

harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 22:35

girne



A very good post

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 22:39

hi girne after several conversations with various people from both sides i think you are right. You sun it up so well xx

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 23:02

Girne. Great post.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 23:49

arbee.

"The above would seem to contradict what you have said "



You mean the last 2 lines?







The Cyprus issue has been linked to Turkeys EU membership,and it is Greece and ROC that have demanded for example that elements of the talks be frozen until Turkey opens its ports to the ROC. So its really "we support you all the way as long as you do this -that etc".



Not really interested what the two leaders say,they are politicians. They can hardly say otherwise, can you imagine if they said they were deliberately trying to impede Turkey. Enough has been said in the past for people to make up their own minds . I was trying to move out of Cyprus which interests the Frenchman or German not one iota ,and look at EU and Turkey.

So how about I change what I said to,

"Secretly I think that some EU countries are only too glad that some situation to impede Turkeys EU negotiations might arise, such as Cyprus,thereby not sacrificing there own relations and trade.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
03/06/2009 23:56

sorry arbee,meant to add

Would you then agree with where I think Turkey stands with the EU,never mind Cyprus.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
04/06/2009 00:13

arbee

Message 57

Yep just like the GC government supported the Annan plan right up until the last moment and then there were crocodile tears and pleas to the GC voters to vote 'OXI'

Dont make me laugh.

AJ

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
04/06/2009 00:23

arbee

Message 62

'I cannot see the Present members of the EU wanting Turkey to forge more links with other countries by that i mean more insular muslim states .'



Too late, Turkey is a founder member of OIC (Organisation of the Islamic Conference).

AJ

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
04/06/2009 00:26

Guys, one thing is for sure - when they find a solution we will all know! Until then - let's wait and see!



It took 35 years to get where TRNC is today - so a few more months will not be the end of the world!



The Orams case is scheduled for October 2009, I understand, and some sources say that there may be a delay if there is likely to be an agreement in the offing between the TC / GC!



Whatever happens in the end there will be some pain all round and we will overcome it!

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
04/06/2009 00:29

Last Tonight Arbee



Agree about EU leaders not wanting Turkey to forge alliances with Moslem states but thats the leaders not the people. Dont agree that it will be tied to a Cyprus settlement as I dont think it will get to that stage.I think as I said, it will be or has been in effect decided by the populations of France, Germany, Holland, and woe betide any EU leader that ignores that . What happens with Cyprus is irrelevant to most of Europe. Maybe if the european economy and employment situation improves,then Turkey has a chance. For the next couple of decades no one will want any major changes.

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
04/06/2009 00:39

Girne29, good posts



Arbee... left wanting for a good reply in response

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
04/06/2009 15:29

Arbee



I agree with what you say about an agreement re cyprus,but the reasons given by France ,Germany and Holland for not wanting Turkey in the EU will not be alleviated by such an agreement.

The Paris taxi driver that doesnt want Turkey in the EU is not going to change his mind in 18 months when told there is a Cyprus agreemenT. He would probably ask "where or what is Cyprus and what has it to do with me or my views on EU enlargement."



You are probably about right about the time scale, believe it was supposed to take about 15 years. and that was a few years back



Back to Talat giving back the land,I see no problem as its what was voted on in the original plan.

The only problem is how much support does Talat now have. I think it is pointless trying to figure out how the electorate will vote .Much has been said about the control Turkey has over the TRNC but at the end of the day they cannot force the people to vote one way or another.Hopefully what is negotiated will mean YE

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/06/2009 17:16

Dear AJ



re msg 63



>>Yep just like the GC government supported the Annan plan right up until the last moment and then there were crocodile tears and pleas to the GC voters to vote 'OXI'



Dont make me laugh. <<<



Oh dear, AJ.. let me put you right... President Liealotopoulos was making it quite clear a LONG time before the Annan Vote that he wasn't "happy", and things weren't made any better by "Commie Jim" Christofias telling his party supporters to vote No - meaning "YES"...



"Liealot" was elected to be "strong" in negotiations - to counter "Denktator" - but the latter was "removed" leaving a new "Dinosaur" ( on the GC side) in place..to screw things up.



The shame for the REAL Cypriots - i.e excluding the planted Mainland Turks - is that the GCs now have a "leader" who is Presiding during a recession AND going to have to "sell" a plan that will be VERY much like Annan..