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online petition concerning the Orams Ruling

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Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 13:16

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Message 1 of 203 in Discussion

Please would all members log onto http://www.kuzey-kibris.com

and sign the online petition which is going to be presented on Tuesday morning at the British High commission in Lefkosa.

The petition has been arranged by the Embargoed group in conjunction with the North Cyprus Action Group.

There will be a peaceful demonstration and anyone attending has been asked to wear black.

This is your chance to show your support so please try to make it to Lefkosa on Tuesday morning as well as signing the online petition.



Wiser


Joined: 30/07/2008
Posts: 796

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 13:21

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Message 2 of 203 in Discussion

Can this be made a sticky please.



Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 13:25

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Message 3 of 203 in Discussion

This involves us all and it is our duty not only to sign the petition but to try and show our support.

Please Izzet keep it at the top



Trudy


Joined: 25/05/2009
Posts: 369

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 13:27

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Message 4 of 203 in Discussion

Just done my bit - there are so many signatures!!



CasaCoco


Joined: 06/04/2009
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 13:41

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Message 5 of 203 in Discussion

Perhaps I'm being a bit blonde, but I just went to add my signature and was not quite sure how to! I take it you fill in the bit that says 'join us'? I did all that, but my name is not appearing. Have I done something wrong or does it take a while to show up?



billyboy1


Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 590

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 13:53

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Message 6 of 203 in Discussion

Had a message about this on my facebook this morning, but the link wasn't working.....so thanks for the link here Teresa....my signature is on.....



Trudy


Joined: 25/05/2009
Posts: 369

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 13:59

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Message 7 of 203 in Discussion

It shows at the top, not the bottom in case you looked there? I only say that because i looked at the bottom first!



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 14:17

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Message 8 of 203 in Discussion

funny ,now we can demonstrate in the trnc, now they need our help.

maybe the demonstration should be aimed at the gov,for them to stand by the garantee's they gave.



Thinker


Joined: 11/11/2008
Posts: 169

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 15:19

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Message 9 of 203 in Discussion

Signed up!!



Thinker


Joined: 11/11/2008
Posts: 169

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 15:20

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Message 10 of 203 in Discussion

Forum Admin, Is this going to be made a Sticky????



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 15:25

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Message 11 of 203 in Discussion

Fire starter has a point. I thought demonstrations by non TC's were classed as an unlawful assembly.

Elko?



Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 15:30

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Message 12 of 203 in Discussion

This is not a goverment led demonstration and is not a demonstration against the TRNC goverment.

Permission has been given for anyone including not tcs to attend.

Please consider going and showing your support.



Scubamum


Joined: 16/03/2008
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 15:50

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Message 13 of 203 in Discussion

Thank you for posting this Teresa.



Scubamum



harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 16:03

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Message 14 of 203 in Discussion

i dont understand why the british high commision?



where not they ones who warned brits about the potential problems you could have buying property in the trnc.



dav88



Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 605

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 16:20

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Message 15 of 203 in Discussion

Just done my bit as well I will put it on my facebook as well so that everyone can know about it



Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 16:23

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Message 16 of 203 in Discussion

Yes, done my bit too.



simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 16:31

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Message 17 of 203 in Discussion

yep , signed up

Simbas



booitsme


Joined: 04/02/2009
Posts: 667

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 17:03

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Message 18 of 203 in Discussion

Have signed up and will email address to those who don't regularly check Cyprus44



Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 17:06

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Message 19 of 203 in Discussion

Thanks for all the support but lets keep this going, the organisers were hoping for 5000 online signatures as well as those on hard copies be good to beat their expectations.



MaggieAndBernie



Joined: 26/07/2008
Posts: 2012

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 17:15

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Message 20 of 203 in Discussion

Just signed up!



lindylou


Joined: 01/05/2008
Posts: 16

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 17:19

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Message 21 of 203 in Discussion

Just signed



Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 17:41

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Message 22 of 203 in Discussion

Surprise Surprise just had a call to say that the petition site is being hacked but they are on top of things and all the signatures have been saved. The organisers have asked me to thank you all on their behalf for the support but physical support on the day is as important, if anyone is interested in going to the demonstration could you please let me know so we have some idea on numbers. They are trying to organise some buses which will make things easier.

Keep signing and ask all your friends to sign as well, this is not just about the Orams this is about Justice for all Turkish Cypriots



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 18:25

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Message 23 of 203 in Discussion

Teresa



it is up and working again, my wife and I both just signed up.



cypwine


Joined: 09/05/2009
Posts: 177

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 18:34

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Message 24 of 203 in Discussion

sorry Teresa but the tcs will only get justice when Turkey gives them there freedom.... as for your petition having 5.000 signitures ,is this the 5.000 people that the UK have said are also in the same positon as the orams??!? You should take note of harry roberts and Arbee before you make a fool of yourself.



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 19:01

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Message 25 of 203 in Discussion

re msg 1



Hi Teresa



I'm sorry but I WON'T be signing the petition as it is not accurate



1/ the ECJ decision was NOT "biased" - it was based on legal criteria and the decision was inevitable as the "biased" Advocate General had already ruled.



2/ What are the UN "resolutions" guaranteeing bi-zonality?



3/ How does this ruling effect a TCs right or equality - they CAN and could always apply to move back to their property and some have. It is a little "rich" to bemoan inequality.





4/ WHAT has your "President" got to do with the membership of Cyprus in the EU?... Cyprus is alreasy IN the EU... as the petition says - the Aquis is suspended in the area where the recognised govt cannot effect control.



Far better for Turkey to "allow" your "President" to negotiate a deal in good faith - and / or for TCs to go to the ECHR - if they feel that "rump" RoC proceedures for sorting out Land/ Property ownership aren't fair.



Legal findings are what may drive a settlement .



harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 19:05

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Message 26 of 203 in Discussion

i applaud you all for fighting your point but submitting your petition to the british high commision is a complete waste of time.

They will not help it has nothing to do with them in fact they warned of the pitfulls of buying property and seems to me a majority of people ignored it.



your target should be the trnc authorities who promoted the sale of so called exchange land and gave you g/tees it was safe obviously in the orams case it was not.



you have been lied to by the government, lawyers and estate agents and now you seek help from the british high commission.



http://ukincyprus.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-cyprus/buying-property



Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 19:18

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Message 27 of 203 in Discussion

ok let me set the record straight, this is not MY petition, this has been drawn up by people with a much better understanding of legal issues then i could ever have. I just posted the details here so anyone who wanted to sign could do so. If you dont want to then that is your choice.



donaghadee3


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 19:46

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Message 28 of 203 in Discussion

Have signed up - but our names are missing as well



harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 19:46

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Message 29 of 203 in Discussion



i do not believe that the person who submitted the petition has much knowledge of legal issues most of it is complete rubbish and its inaccurate.



see msg 26



girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 20:28

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Message 30 of 203 in Discussion

firestarter, arbee, harry,mmm etc



I believe Teresa is merely informing us on this forum of the existance of the petition.

Both Embargoed and North Cyprus Action group are TC founded organisations so we might otherwise not have known of the petitions existance .

As the majority of names appears to be Turkish,what has British High Commission's advice to Brits to do wth the TC's presenting a petition about ECHR ruling.



Leave people alone ,if they want to present a petition ,let them.

If as you say ,it wont change anything,whats the problem.

If you all feel so strongly ,you can present a counter petition,and I would respect your right to sign .



dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 20:32

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Message 31 of 203 in Discussion

Bump it up



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 20:34

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Message 32 of 203 in Discussion

Hi Teresa,



The Lady Wyn and I, were delighted to support your petition.



You are of good faith....I believe the Cypriots say...."a clean heart"



Take care,



John and Julie



Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 20:36

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Message 33 of 203 in Discussion

Wyn thankyou and the same back to you, maybe 1 day we will get to meet in person.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 20:41

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Message 34 of 203 in Discussion

Teresa.



I will make sure so!



John



ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 20:42

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Message 35 of 203 in Discussion

Trudy wrote: " I only say that because i looked at the bottom first!"



I have to admit that's my instinctive preference too.



Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 21:04

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Message 36 of 203 in Discussion

Added my weight to the Petition.



mmmmmm. - dual standards - tut.



Paul



harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 21:24

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Message 37 of 203 in Discussion

girne re mssg 32



i appreciate that teresa has informed members of the petition.





tell my why theres is a very high amount of brits on the petition is it because the support the Tcs why are the Brits coming out in support of the above issues?



by the way do you seriously think i could present a counter petiton on this forum.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 21:58

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Message 38 of 203 in Discussion

Demonstrations by foreigners are not unlawful, they are simply subject to prior permission. So if prior permission is granted it is not unlawful.

ismet



CasaCoco


Joined: 06/04/2009
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 21:58

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Message 39 of 203 in Discussion

Thanks Trudy, I've just checked and I'm on...twice!



natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 323

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 22:27

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Message 40 of 203 in Discussion

Teresa, I have naturally signed this petition, but any idea of time next Tuesday?



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 22:36

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Message 41 of 203 in Discussion

re msg 32 Girne_29



Teresa asked all member to sign the petiion .. can't I explain why not? ... ! ;)





re msg 38



Washerman



>>>double standards<<<



would you please explain this remark ?



Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 22:48

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Message 42 of 203 in Discussion

Taken from BRT

The North Cyprus Action Platform was established to raise public awareness in the North about the injustice and threat caused against gained rights of Turkish Cypriots and foreigners living in North Cyprus.

The Platform now prepares to hold a solidarity action at 9.30 on Tuesday morning where a petition and a letter will be handed over to officials from the British High Commission, the United Nations and the European Union.



Speaking to the BRT in an exclusive interview Marion Stuart, a representative for the platform expressed the view that the ECJ decision ignores the principles of political equality and property-related bi-zonality, as put forward by the United Nations, which are subject to form the ground for a settlement in Cyprus.



The decision also causes a threat to the peaceful existence of the TRNC, Stuart noted.



The Platform member called on every one to participate in the solidarity action on the 9th of June.



The action proposed contains two invit



dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 23:20

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Message 43 of 203 in Discussion

Those of you who do not like the petition should either accept it as others rights or bu--er off onto the forum they approve of.

Cannot see why arbee, mmmmmmmm, and a couple of others keep snipping at the people who like and support the n.c people.

When wars or invasions take place someone loses. In this case the g.c's. If these supporting lot were to look back in history the greeks have never been high on the agenda of heroes, they are well known for waiting to stab one in the back! the t.c were bullied and they are still being bullied by you lot the greeks. Bullies are cowards, and you will always be cowards in the eyes of many. Sorry to sound so harsh but it is a fact that since this oram thing, you are being shown up as grasping, whinging cry babies. When a settlement has been agreed then and if, I say if, you may be welcomed back to n.c. But at the moment you are making it a dambed site harder for any one to ever want a greek any where near them. lolx



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 23:52

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Message 44 of 203 in Discussion

re msg 47



Can you explain how disagreeing with the petition means I dislike "NC people" !!?



I base my criteria for who I like on personality, character and respect.. often with folk with whom I hold vastly differing views...



Do try and see the difference, please



harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
05/06/2009 23:53

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Message 45 of 203 in Discussion

dizzycows



so if you dont agree then dont post whats the point of a forum then.



is this a yes sir post



rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 00:53

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Message 46 of 203 in Discussion

msg 50 , pikey you just came out the closet, greeks bullied turks , to the point of murder , none so blind as those who cannot see eh , IDIOT



Sunnycee


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 192

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 01:13

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Message 47 of 203 in Discussion

Done my bit!

sc



Sunnycee


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 192

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 01:20

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Message 48 of 203 in Discussion

I was just wondering why this hasnt been put up as a sticky!!

sc



WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 01:27

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Message 49 of 203 in Discussion

I have signed this petition because I wholly supprt the EMBARGO organisation and its objective of fair and just treatment for the poeple of the TRNC.



It is clear that some , specifically mmmmmm et al feel that legal pedantics prevent support. OK dont join, but please kindly leave it at that and live and let live.



The spirit of the petition is very clear and it is that , that people should actively support and promote.



girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 01:41

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Message 50 of 203 in Discussion

Harry



" do you seriously think i could present a counter petiton on this forum. "

Why not ?.Just direct the Forum members,as Teresa has done , but to a petition from some of your own people.For example there was a petition by GC's a couple of years ago to prevent TRNC holidays being advertised in London.



As to why Brits are supporting it.

I imagine its because they can hardly do otherwise.If TC's have started it ,it would appear peculiar to them if Brits in TRNC took the side of the ROC,especially those with property.







arbee



Marion Stuart is very intelligent and honest ,whether one agrees with her or not.

Why call her" an idiot " when you could have just said she was wrong You have never met or spoken to her . Everyone knows she never posts on Forums ,maybe she has a point, and therefore cannot and will not ,defend herself.

One thing I do know ,she would never ever call you an idiot just because she disagreed with you.



Geoff1131MK11


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 08:07

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Message 51 of 203 in Discussion

Teresa, just signed up.



arbee, i dont know Marion Stuart, but maybe she has better things to do than be ' brought in front of you '

i dont know you either but you seem to be full of your own importance ( or should that read impotence?)



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 10:41

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Message 52 of 203 in Discussion

girne,

i was just saying funny how permission was given when it suited them. just because i won't be signing doesn't mean i don't have lots of friends who will. personal choice and all that.



rowlo,

pike hasn't been here for ages, i think you have your wires crossed somewhere?



cypwine


Joined: 09/05/2009
Posts: 177

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 10:46

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Message 53 of 203 in Discussion

msg 58



rowlo has always got his wires crossed



ustwo


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 67

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 11:20

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Message 54 of 203 in Discussion

We don't care whether you sign or not mmmmmm.We are signing this petition because in the main it is an unfair judgement when the judge who presided had a conflict of interest not only is he Greek but his wife is Rum.Must be worrying somebody if they tried to hack it.



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 12:36

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Message 55 of 203 in Discussion

what nationality was the person who advised on the ruling before it was made?

because, did the greek guy just not go on the legal advice of this adviser to the ecj ?



dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 12:37

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Message 56 of 203 in Discussion

Rowlo, I love your posts, you, like me do not suffer fools gladly. The greeks are not liked anymore, just tolerated! they are bl--dy cowards and bullies. Aways have been, and still are! lol x



cypwine


Joined: 09/05/2009
Posts: 177

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 12:43

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Message 57 of 203 in Discussion

dear oh dear....msg63 & others!!



"The greeks are not liked anymore" When are you all going to get it into your heads that Cypriots own this island GREEKS and TURKS have nothing what so ever to do with CYPRUS it is an independant island with only one recognised goverment internationally. get your heads out of the sand and wake up.



ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 12:48

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Message 58 of 203 in Discussion

Teresa wrote: " this is not just about the Orams this is about Justice for all Turkish Cypriots"

It's nothing of the kind. People who stand to lose a lot of money care only about themselves and not the Turkish Cypriots. The native TCs stand to lose nothing. It's the foreigners who are worried and rightly so.



harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 13:02

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Message 59 of 203 in Discussion

dizzycows



Rowlo, I love your posts, you, like me do not suffer fools gladly. The greeks are not liked anymore, just tolerated! they are bl--dy cowards and bullies. Aways have been, and still are! lol x



and your source of information? could it be your dreams.

what a ridiculous statement



WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 13:03

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Message 60 of 203 in Discussion

Of course persons that stand to lose financially will seriously consider signing the petition. This is justifiable and correct.

The EMARGOED organisation has clear objective in bringing to international attention the fact that TRNC and its people are being victimised and excluded from basic human rights. The embargos upon the region are unfair. I support this stance as well as the first. Signing of the petition is the perrogative of the individual and needs no explanation or reasoning.

Furthermore, citizens of the ROC are unlikely to support the campaign. Such people have clear opportunity to make political, financial and phsycological gain.



Persons with any interest in the TRNC should consider signing for whatever reason.



sunrise


Joined: 14/02/2009
Posts: 274

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 13:27

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Message 61 of 203 in Discussion

I've signed up



girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 13:32

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Message 62 of 203 in Discussion

arbee



"My standards and your standards are two different things."



You are very right in that .



I would never call anyone " an idiot " just because I didnt like what they said,and especially having never met them. I disagree with some of what the likes of Firestarter mmmm and others say at times,but it would be childish and unworthy of me to call them idiots on a point of disagreement,especially as in other matters we can agree.



If someone who disagrees with you is an idiot would it not be better to show your disdain by not debating with them. Someone said"Only an idiot argue with an idiot"











"Bring her here to confront me. Thanks." (Arbee #2)



Do you know how arrogant that sounds?



She has too much on her plate fighting the authorities in the North to bother confronting someone from the south as well.You calling her an idiot will mean nothing ,she has been called a lot worse by the establishment in the TRNC.



clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 13:34

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Message 63 of 203 in Discussion

I've signed it......no justification required!



dav88



Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 605

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 13:37

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Message 64 of 203 in Discussion

Myself and at least a hundred friends have signed up. 1429 Votes so far, think we can do better than that!



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 13:37

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Message 65 of 203 in Discussion

Hi Elko,



Your msg 41.

Surely, you see the irony in what you have said or is your tongue in your cheek?



dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 13:54

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Message 66 of 203 in Discussion

Pehaps those missing Greeks all came over to G.B!! thats why they are still missing, we took them in!! and still they whinge. lol x



Jachin



Joined: 05/02/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 14:00

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Message 67 of 203 in Discussion

Just signed.



arbee, Only 6000 should have done better!



Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 14:09

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Message 68 of 203 in Discussion

Ilovekibris msg 65



"It's nothing of the kind. People who stand to lose a lot of money care only about themselves and not the Turkish Cypriots. The native TCs stand to lose nothing. It's the foreigners who are worried and rightly so"



How do you work that out, if you look at the judgement and the implications it does not say anywhere that Turkish Cypriots with property in other countries are not facing the same risk as the foreign buyers here.

As i said this demonstration on Tuesday is not just about about the Orams but also for the Turkish Cypriots to try and make their own voices heard.



dav88



Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 605

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 14:09

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Message 69 of 203 in Discussion

Arbee



You may know your history however perhaps I should give you a TRNC Histroy Book where you can also read about the thousands of Turkish Cypriots and their little kids, babies even pregnant women that were killed and raped by Greek Cypriots!!



Only 2 or 3 years ago it was in the papers that two greek cypriot boys came over to the north and took a turkish cypriot girl up to the mountains and i can not even find it in myself to say what they did to her! To this date they still smash cars of turkish cypriots in the south.



Before you start saying crap perhaps you should get your facts right!



dav88



Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 605

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 14:13

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Message 70 of 203 in Discussion

http://www.kuzey-kibris.com CAN ANYONE OPEN THE PAGE BECAUSE FOR SOME REASON I CAN NOT OPEN IT ANYMORE :S ??



dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 14:20

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Message 71 of 203 in Discussion

Well said Dav88, these g.c. go blah blah blah, when most of us know what went on on both sides, but the t.c are too scared to say much, because of being 'got at' by their 'lovely' neighbours the greeks. lol xx



dav88



Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 605

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 14:31

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Message 72 of 203 in Discussion

If there is the slightest chance that the information in the TRNC history books have been changed and are misleading then do note that the same may have happened with yours too. But forget that, it wasnt centuries ago, there are still people from those days who would most happily tell you what the GCs did to us! But do you see us coming on to the site and talking about what your people did to us ? NO! We know what happened but it is in the PAST and we have moved on.



And who exactly do you think you are coming on to Cyprus44 which is a website where citizens and residents of NORTH CYPRUS come to advise each other on matters and simply communicate with other residents of the country, and tell us all this s*** about what happened 35 years ago.



The problem with you greeks is that you are still what you were back then, and instead of looking forward to a future with peace, u dig up the past and HATE HATE HATE and HATE and people ask me why I dont go to South Cyprus!



billyboy1


Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 590

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 14:46

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Message 73 of 203 in Discussion

Am just reading thru this thread and i would like to put my 4 pennies worth in....Dav88 message 77...totally agree...why is it we only ever hear of what the turks did to the greeks.....it takes 2 to make a war.....and as you say what about the atrociouties (i know cant spell) done to the turks...i have family that were killed in 74, and their bodies have never been found....my cousins still remember their father and all the men folk being taken away and locked up in a school...and they had to hide in haystacks whilst the gc were ussing pitchforks in the hay...werent they lucky to get away but stillm have the memories of sneaking to the school at night to give their father a packets of cigs...last time they ever saw him....



I was born in the uk, but am proud to say i am a turkish cypriot....my familys land is on the south now, and what have we got to compare to what we had.....diddly squat...we had to pay for what we now own in the north...in our own country.....l



dav88



Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 605

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 14:50

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Message 74 of 203 in Discussion

Theres a good saying `think before you talk` maybe you should do that arbie!



WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO COME TO THE SOUTH, WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO GET A PASSPORT and WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO GET MEDICAL CARE



But that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said so dont twist it! You are not worthy enough to be my worst nightmare dont make me laugh I pity people like you who do not know the P of Peace and chat crap and bring out what happened in the past but only your own side of the story and make no mention of what was done to the other side!



I am proud to be a TURK and I do have Greek friends but these are people who know the past and understand both sides unlike small minded people like yourself



I am completely aware of what took place in the past so you can open your mouth and chat all you want because all i hear is gibberish



The more you stay in the past and think the way people did back then, you will never be able to learn and create a better world



GET A LIFE



dav88



Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 605

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 14:53

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Message 75 of 203 in Discussion

Billyboy



Thank you for your words and speaking the truth, I couldnt agree more! With people like arbie there will never be complete peace in the world



dav88



Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 605

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:04

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Message 76 of 203 in Discussion

I see Arbie has disappeared! Perhaps the truth was too much for him to handle haha



1444 woo hoo come on northerns were getting there!!



CasaCoco


Joined: 06/04/2009
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:08

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Message 77 of 203 in Discussion

dav88 - I can open it although it was a bit slow and the page was black for a minute or so, but then it came through. Maybe your network is a bit slow or your computer had a technical glitch?



WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:13

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Message 78 of 203 in Discussion

Arbee msg 73



The modern Cyprus is very different than it was some 30 plus years ago. It is very clear that the TRNC continues to be a target for disgruntled GC,s and the ROC administration.



Your clear quest for revenge is shamefull. Your clear knowledge and resolve would be better spent upon seeking resolution for the modern Cyprus problem. The continued supression of the TC and TRNC may offer you comfort but serves only to prolong the divisions that are proving so harmfull to the Island prosperity.



What specifically do you want and what proposals do you bring to the negotiating table?



heppy


Joined: 28/05/2009
Posts: 1

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:18

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Message 79 of 203 in Discussion

Everyone who has bought in Northern Cyprus for whatever reason needs to get behind the Oram's - lets do what we can to help put this ongoing problem in the limelight!



dav88



Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 605

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:27

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Message 80 of 203 in Discussion

WAZ - well said thank you



Arbie - NORTH CYPRUS = TURKS. I AM A TC WHICH MEANS I AM A TURK



I DONT WANT TO REPEAT MYSELF BUT SEEING AS YOU ARE AVOIDING TO READ WHAT I SENT HERE IT GOES AGAIN: WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO CROSS THE BOARDER, WORK THERE, GET MEDICAL CARE AND GET A PASSPORT

IT IS YOU SHOWING ALL THE HATE. WE BURRIED IT IN OUR HEARTS AND MOVED ON WHEREAS YOU - AND I MEAN YOU ARBIE - CAN NOT DO THE SAME. YOU ARE SAYING YOU DONT LIVE IN THE PAST - THEN STOP TALKING ABOUT THE PAST!! HAVE SOME RESPECT TO TURKISH CYPRIOTS AND RESIDENTS OF NORTH CYPRUS AND JUST GET OFF THIS WEBSITE UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO OPEN YOUR EYES AND CONSIDER THE STORIES OF BOTH SIDES!



THE TURKISH CYPRIOT GIRL WAS ABUSED BY THOSE GREEK CYPRIOTS AND IT WAS IN THE PAPER! PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP WRITING YOUR OWN HISTORY BOOKS THE WAY YOU DESIRE, AND READ TODAYS PAPERS. IF I DO FIND THE PAPER I WILL MAKE SURE YOU GET TO READ IT!



billyboy1


Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 590

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:37

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Message 81 of 203 in Discussion

Great...does that mean i can have all my property in southern cyprus back...seeing as i also have the deeds....and still keep my propertys in northern cyprus that i have paid for ...and before you get on your high horse arbee,,,pre 74 bought and paid for....xxxx...nown thats what i call justice



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:46

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Message 82 of 203 in Discussion

" I want land returned to its rightful owners "



Then all the rightfull owners have to do is approach the ECHR approved Local Remedy the IPC......



billyboy1


Joined: 01/06/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:47

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Message 83 of 203 in Discussion

Ahh...but mr c didnt have to live in nc for 6 months to claim his land back....just crossed the green line and served papers.....now thats unjust.......



dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:48

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Message 84 of 203 in Discussion

Arbee, I want, I want, I want, I want, didnt your mummy ever say no to you? those who want dont always get!!! lolxx



halffull


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 571

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:50

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Message 85 of 203 in Discussion

Thought I hadn't got on but I see I did!!



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:51

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Message 86 of 203 in Discussion

"The prosperity of the RoC ic evident to all "



Hotels not opening this season due to a massive drop in tourism...



Shortfall of Millions in the government coffers due to poor property sales as people have more trouble with rogue builders, no deeds even after 10 years, builders raising illegal finances on sold properties etc.



The bubble in the South has burst.........



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:54

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Message 87 of 203 in Discussion

"I want a Cyprus under one legal Government based on the democratic principles of one man - one vote"



Of course you do then the TC would never have a voice as they would be outnumbered and out voted hardly a good position to be in, they would be better off living in an embargoed state.



dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:56

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Message 88 of 203 in Discussion

Well said The Saints, get fed up with the South being so self righteous, lol xx



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 15:57

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Message 89 of 203 in Discussion

Has any TC been given the rent collected from the rental of thier property to a GC by the ROC governmet???



Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
Posts: 1924

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 16:03

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Message 90 of 203 in Discussion

Come on everyone - read your history books and get to know the reality of yesterday, and then leave it where it is - IN THE PAST. Use it as a foundation for a future of love, equality, justice and rights for everyone. Seize every opportunity to show a desire toi build a Cypriot future which is good for all its residents.

I speak as an ex pat who has chosen to make this place my home. I lived and worked in the south for two years with great friends, but who used to tell me if I crossed the border I would get murdered. I am sitll here! Why? Because people allow themselves to get brain washed by untruths.

To those of you who feel that the last 30 years have continued to show injustice and inequality to the North of Cyprus, I urge you to sign the petition and show your face on Tuesday morning at 9.30a. for the presentation of that Petition to the British High Commission and to the United Nations.

The voice of Northern Cyprus has found its vocal cords and has started to speak



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 16:08

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Message 91 of 203 in Discussion

390 come on get it right and you never proved me wrong I have told you and so has 6xm you have had the links before cos we know you like em the EHCR approved the IPC as the local remedy it puts a stop to your scare mongering which is why you try to deny it. Cmon if want to play EU and UN cards play them all



185000 refugees, men women and children, yes an appalling figure.



Cmon arbee you like to inflate your numbers for sensationalism how many actual land/home owners you know it is not that high.



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 16:22

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Message 92 of 203 in Discussion

Mr M a TC refugee from the South was awarded points/exchange land in the North it was grazing land with no buildings on it he decided to plant some of it rather than build his home on it. Mr M being an honest mine traced the former GC owner in the ROC out of interest. The two men met and became friends, a contstruction company was interested in the land to build apartments. Mr M although it was his land now discussed this with his friend in the South they decided together that they could both benefit from this and they gave the developer enough land to build 30 appartments 1 block of 6 appartments was to be kept by Mr M and his friend the former land owner from the ROC. The result all appartments sold, the partnership of Mr M and his friend from the ROC kept two appartments one each for family members i.e. thier daughters and sold the remaining four sharing the money equally. They have a strong friendship still today and freely associate. FACT is sometimes stranger than fiction...arbee



AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 16:34

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Message 93 of 203 in Discussion

arbee

Message 106

'370 out of 185000 refugees must tell you how good it is.'

Depends who you describe as refugees and even you would admit that the ROC government are, shall we say, persuading 'refugees' not to claim via the IPC which I hasten to add is a recognised body.

Now with regards to 'refugee' status do you think it is right for the ROC government to pass down refugee status from one generation to the next? The true refugees are the ones that were forced to leave their homes in 1974 and you carry on transferring refugee status ad infinitum down through generations.

Maybe you need to do a bit more research with regards to 'refugees'



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 16:39

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Message 94 of 203 in Discussion

arbee

I count myself lucky in that my wife owns one of the said appartments.

believe it or not I do not disagree entirely with all of your posts you do post some valid and iformative facts although I may not agree with all of your sentiments entirely I do agree that the solution which ever way it goes should be a fair one for ALL CYPRIOTS if by some way of compensation or agreement we are allowed to keep our home then excellent but if it goes the other way I will not cry about it. Good look to both ethnic groups of cypriots and I sincerely hope they get a just settlement sooner rather than later so that some people can finally have closure on an unhappy time and have some peace of mind........



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 16:44

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Message 95 of 203 in Discussion

AJ, can't find your tel number......



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 17:17

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Message 96 of 203 in Discussion

Surely approaching the IPC would not be recognising the legitimacy of the TRNC as the IPC is the External Local Remedy administrated by the Turkish government....



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 17:26

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Message 97 of 203 in Discussion

arbee I am of the opinion that as many GC's that are entitled to should put claims in to the IPC and see how it stands up.... surely that would be the real test.



ROBIN HOOD


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 238

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 19:36

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Message 98 of 203 in Discussion

in message 116: you can split hairs by saying there ain't no refugees by this description, except maybe TCs who fled overseas after the '74 thingy. The GCs are displaced persons in their own country. A whole different ball game. Unless of course the RoC recognises that TRNC is a defacto sovereign state, which would then legitimise the the claim of refugees status. That should a a bit of oil to the fire..



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 20:50

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Message 99 of 203 in Discussion

Msg 95,



Try 666.........Sorry Dave.........an irrepressable sense of humour!



Oh1 Mother of God the beloved Mary.......forgive me!



wymp



harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 21:10

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Message 100 of 203 in Discussion

- NORTH CYPRUS = TURKS. I AM A TC WHICH MEANS I AM A TURK



your not a cypriot then?



I DONT WANT TO REPEAT MYSELF BUT SEEING AS YOU ARE AVOIDING TO READ WHAT I SENT HERE IT GOES AGAIN: WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO CROSS THE BOARDER, WORK THERE, GET MEDICAL CARE AND GET A PASSPORT



so your not isolated or embargoed then?



natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 21:13

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Message 101 of 203 in Discussion

Do you know, I am southern Irish and proud. We have been through all this and eventually, while we never ever will forget the wrongs, we have got to learn to forgive and move on. It is usually just a handfull of bloody martyrs that keep the poison going and this is what is happening in our adopted island Cyprus.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 21:13

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Message 102 of 203 in Discussion

Hi Harryoroberts,



I thought this was a public forum. This is beyond me!



wyn



ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 21:17

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Message 103 of 203 in Discussion

msg 67 Jachin wrote: "arbee, Only 6000 should have done better!"

Shame on you. Does the idea of babies and children being killed turn you on?

Haram olsun.



harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 21:21

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Message 104 of 203 in Discussion

Now with regards to 'refugee' status do you think it is right for the ROC government to pass down refugee status from one generation to the next? The true refugees are the ones that were forced to leave their homes in 1974 and you carry on transferring refugee status ad infinitum down through generations.



yes



Ahh...but mr c didnt have to live in nc for 6 months to claim his land back....just crossed the green line and served papers.....now thats unjust.......



no not really unjust and dont be ridiculous for a start he would not been allowed to stay 6 months and yeh i can see the trnc ordering the occupier to leave and allow the greek to move back in or sell it.



i dont think you would believe how many ts have actually sold their land in the south they can sell it with no problem legally.



the international courts have ruled that pre 1974 title holders are the legal owners this applies to both side of the border.



natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 323

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 21:29

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Message 105 of 203 in Discussion

Pleased I posted on this forum, you are all a load of bloody bigots. Move on



harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
06/06/2009 21:33

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Message 106 of 203 in Discussion

if i offered you a house with 4 bedrooms fully furnished quite new in very nice location for 80.000 sterling would you not think there was a catch or would you just buy because it was cheap?



if you bought this property and then one day someone turned up with court papers you would then realise why it was cheap.



most not all brits on this forum do not understand the cyprus problem or are extreemly biased in their opinions because they dont give a monkeys really about tcs they just want to protect there own interest.



what you should realise mr and mrs uk is that not all greek cypriots hated turks and not all turks hated greeks it was a minority from each side who caused the cyprus problem EOKA and the TMT.



natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 21:38

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Message 107 of 203 in Discussion

So why the Genocide of the TC's? They were a minority. I don't recall reading about Genocide of the GC's



natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 21:42

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Message 108 of 203 in Discussion

Harryroberts, this is now our home and we do give a damn. Many of us live in local communities and have settled and DO have an in depth understanding of the problems, thank you and despite all that still wish to be here



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
06/06/2009 21:50

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Message 109 of 203 in Discussion

"most not all brits on this forum do not understand the cyprus problem or are extreemly biased in their opinions because they dont give a monkeys really about tcs they just want to protect there own interest."



Incorrect, this is just your biased opinion, I know that many of the people over here see the importance of a solution that is just for ALL Cypriots.



"what you should realise mr and mrs uk is that not all greek cypriots hated turks and not all turks hated greeks it was a minority from each side who caused the cyprus problem EOKA and the TMT."



You continuously use the term Brits or Mr and Mrs UK which shows your racist nature, not all Foreign owners are Brits....



harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
07/06/2009 00:57

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Message 110 of 203 in Discussion

NO NO i am not a racists and have no racist nature i take each individual as i find them irrespective of race religon or color i have turkish friends that i would trust more than some of the greek people i know and vice verser.



does every turk hate greeks does every greek hate turk i dont think so.



i was born in england and lived 47 years there i am not racists against brits its the moral issue of some the brits who support the tcs beause they are worried about losing their property.



andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
07/06/2009 10:29

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Message 111 of 203 in Discussion

harry roberts messages 106 and 110:



I agree with you about innocent people being caught up in events 1963 to 1974

you are also correct when you say that people care about their own interests,

but what do you expect? I do, and so must you



the problem is that what A sees as terrorising two helpless pensioners,

B imagines is demonstrating his or her ownership rights

there is no easy reconcilliation of these views but there is a way around it:

some sort of political compromise deal...

but despite all the huff and puff, this is not even on the horizon



on the vexed question of ownership, many of us on the forum believe that

although cypriots of all groups were persecuted and disposessed years ago,

the phoney "international" status of former greek cypriot occupied properties

doesn't exist on the ground in north cyprus,

while there is very little the average turkish or uk arriviste can do about it



so nothing wrong in buying cheaper property, you're not depriving anyone



harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
07/06/2009 13:25

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Message 112 of 203 in Discussion



So why the Genocide of the TC's? They were a minority. I don't recall reading about Genocide of the GC's





tell me where you read about a genocide of tcs



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
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Message Posted:
07/06/2009 13:47

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Message 113 of 203 in Discussion

Waz re 60



It is good you quote "embargoed "



Way back at the beginning of the Apostolides v Orams' case they made it clear that the UK agreed that the Orams' had indeed built a house on Mr Apostolides land. They pointed out that this was something that needed sorting.



It STILL does and continued building on land owned by someone else (ANYWHERE in Cyprus) should have stopped.



rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
07/06/2009 17:31

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Message 114 of 203 in Discussion

ive signed , but my names not showing ???????



WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
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Message Posted:
07/06/2009 18:04

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Message 115 of 203 in Discussion

mmmmm Msg 113



It may well be the case that this was made clear.

It should be very clear too that if Mr Apostolides had approached the Orams with genuine intent to resolve the situation; the case would never have gone to Court.



Mr Apostolides could have easily negotiated a sale of the said land. Instead he has made the case a major political exercise with no regard at all to the repurcussions.



The land within the TRNC has been outside of the control of the GC population for nearly 40 years. Land in the ROC has been outside of the control of TC population for the same amount of time.

It is not right that forty years of stagnation should prevail. Development has resulted in a general betterment of the whole island. Both sides of the Island will, in my view, progress with time and land and property issues will eventually be assigned to history.

As I have said before. Property issues in general are ill suited to civil litigation in local courts. The matter is political.



lesleyd



Joined: 05/06/2007
Posts: 265

Message Posted:
07/06/2009 19:51

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Message 116 of 203 in Discussion

Sorry Guys tried to sign but it seems that its closed now.



natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
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Message Posted:
07/06/2009 20:39

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Message 117 of 203 in Discussion

harryroberts, try first the Genocide Files, probably too intellectural for you.



beno12



Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
07/06/2009 22:00

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Message 118 of 203 in Discussion

signed it................



ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
08/06/2009 00:48

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Message 119 of 203 in Discussion

natalie wrote: "...probably too intellectural for you."

Cruel irony is a fickle mistress...



andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 02:52

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Message 120 of 203 in Discussion

we have wandered far off thread havn't we?



let's sum up:



the majority of members still think the itv programme was biased,

and regard the purchase of exchange land as perfectly acceptable

while the question of turkish title is obscure and increasingly uncertain



the minority beaming in from south cyprus and their fellow-travellers

think there is something wrong with the above, which is wholly predictable

but they are entitled to their views, however tiresome the cod moralising



lucky for us they have very little capacity to influence any real events

except perhaps to try to spread alarm and confusion

but only to those of us with a special interest in politicking



so I say:



sign the petition, support north cyprus and the two pensioners



long live kktc



Oleander


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
08/06/2009 09:41

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Message 121 of 203 in Discussion

It seems odd for some to say this is not 'about the Orams' when the first line in the Petition document states:



"We, the undersigned civil society representatives and individuals, are united in denouncing the biased ECJ ruling on the Orams case."



And this thread is entitled "online petition concerning the Orams Ruling"



Many are confirming they have signed the Petition, but I wonder how many of those signing will actually turn up in person, wearing black, for the 'peaceful demonstration' on Tuesday morning at the British High commission in Lefkosa when the Petition will be handed over?



Oleander


Joined: 03/05/2009
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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 09:46

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Message 122 of 203 in Discussion

I am also puzzled by this statement made above:



"Cyprus44 which is a website where citizens and residents of NORTH CYPRUS come to advise each other on matters and simply communicate with other residents of the country,"



I've seen many posts by members who are not 'residents of N. Cyprus' some of whom don't even visit very often.



I visit frequently but am Resident in the RoC. I know of three people personally (all Brits) who own property in the North but who opted to be residents in the South. Two of them rent in the S. and one owns property on both sides. All of them keep very quiet about the fact they own property in the N.



Not every 'Brit' who 'owns property in the North' is a Brit who sold up house and home in the UK and moved over to TRNC to settle there. Most of those I know bought because it was dirt cheap and they were assured it was a good investment for the future by those who sold to them.



clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
08/06/2009 10:43

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Message 123 of 203 in Discussion

I've signed it......no justification required!



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 11:17

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Message 124 of 203 in Discussion

Waz re 115



It was military action that created your "TRNC" and it will be a combination of legal and political action that will allow Cypriots to be able to live / work where they want on the island..



You and Embargoed seem to gloss over the reason WHY TCs continue to be in isolation..they created the senario that ALLOWS the GCs to perpetuate it...



After 35 years of no progress, Mr Apostolides' action has certainly focused minds...and non Cypriots buying in "TRNC" are very unlikely to be unaware that most land is still owned by GCs.



Could you explain how you arrive at the conclusion - incorrect, of course - that TCs have no redress re their land / property in the "south"



clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
08/06/2009 12:17

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Message 125 of 203 in Discussion

Mark....you ignore the fact that history did not start on 20/6/1974....there were EOKA terrorist atrocities and ethnic cleansing of TC's prior to the TR intervention.The EU chose to ignore that....begs questions about various agendas really!



dav88



Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 605

Message Posted:
08/06/2009 13:29

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Message 126 of 203 in Discussion

Oleander



The statement I made was addressed directly at Arbie who is clearly on this forum to cause arguements and because he kept pointing out what the TCs did and never made any mention of what was done by GCs I thought and still do that he should either get his facts right or get off the forum. All of this was in the past, and I think it is about time people got over it and moved on as otherwise this will continue the way it has been without any hope of any peace between the two sides.



As I said before I do have Greek friends but these people do not look at things the way he does, there is always two sides to every story but he would not accept our side.



Ps. I am Turkish Cypriot and the only reason I pointed it out was because he seemed to think that unless you are a cypriot you do not have the right to point out your thoughts which is clearly wrong as anyone who has read the history should be allowed to speak their minds.



dav88



Joined: 01/08/2008
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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 13:30

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I see Arbies posts have been removed - I think they should have been left so that everyone could see how wrong he was looking at the situation



clarets



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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 13:52

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Oleander,I know too of people ,who choose to live in the TRNC,but also have places they own ,in the ROC. Strangely,they bought in the South because of the same reasons you cite.......cheap property and sunshine ! Didnt realise that was a criminal offence like Apostolides is making out. Can I ask you a question....when will the Jews give Palestine back?



andre 514


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 13:55

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this monsterous regiment of gc sympathesizers

are not "wrong" like when three times three are eight etc,

neither are they "mistaken" similar to thinking jamaica is an island off the african coast

nor are they "stupid" such as believing birmingham has a sea beach



they are in fact taking the **** to destabilize north cyprus as sandy hints at

in order to harm its tourism and investment prospects

by retyping a mixture of international proclamations and bogus moralising

in this they are marginally successful I'd guess...



as regards "getting back" north cyprus as one of them put it in an unguarded moment,

their prospects are pretty much hopeless



Oleander


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 15:39

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Clarets I did not mention the sunshine, just the bargain priced property! You get that both North and South.



And, sorry, I have no idea when Israel will 'give Palestine back'. And no idea why you asked me that question either.



As for whether people knew that they might be considered to be committing a 'criminal offence' when they bought property built on GC owned land in the North. I don't know anyone who has who was not aware that they could one day face big problems regarding the issue. In fact it only seems to be being discussed in some depth since the latest Orams decision.



And doesn't get discussed in very much depth on forums where the majority of members have bought such property themselves because they seem not to want to hear any of the 'downside' of having done so.



I do have both GC and TC friends in Cyprus. I have GC friends in their seventies who visit the North and the woman who lives in what was formerly their property there and are friends with her a



Stubs


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 16:18

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Clarets



A bit more research and you would have found out the "illegailities" of owning GC land/property in the north.



Ignorance is not really to much of an excuse.



The facts still remain that many ex-pats are signing this petition out of self interest under the smokescreen of sympathy towards TC's and the TRNC.



Let me put it this way how many would sign this petition if they did not own property in the North?



Having said that I still think that in most cases the restitution of GC land will be some sort of compensation.



mmmmmm



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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 16:55

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Dear Iain



re msg 125



>>>you ignore the fact that history did not start on 20/6/1974....there were EOKA terrorist atrocities and ethnic cleansing of TC's prior to the TR intervention.The EU chose to ignore that....begs questions about various agendas really!<<<



1/ The TR invasion / intervention was *July* 20 th 1974 !



2/ We have been here before there were Taksimist ( division ) agendas by TCs in the late fifties as well as Enosis ( joining with Greece) agendas ! I am no exponent of the "wrongs" began in CY in 74 ... Actually the UKs divide and rule policy - along with US medling in CY - to keep the bases has a big bearing, too.





3/ the EU knew that Cyprus was divided and HOPED that joining the EU would help bring the "ethnic factions" together - especially if TR joins... *I* still hope this will be the case.



meddmale


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 17:30

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Guys



Im looking forward to my new Greek neighbors, so we can welcome them with the same nightly visits they gave us pre 1974....................Are you sure you want your property back ?



harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 18:01

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harryroberts, try first the Genocide Files, probably too intellectural for you.



if your acount of the cyprus problem is based on this book then you are the one lacking knowledge.



By the way do the estate agents in the north give the book as a moving in present



billyboy1


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 19:10

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2845 signed...good luck tomorrow...i would be with you if i was in the country......



clarets



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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 20:06

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Stubs....never underestimate me....you assume too much my friend!



billyboy1


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 20:08

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stubs...i have family and freinds that DO NOt own land in any part of cyprus and THEY HAVE SIGNED>....its about common sense and justice.....



Stubs


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 20:20

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Iain



I just answered your statement saying and i quote "Didnt realise that was a criminal offence like Apostolides is making out"



If anyone had done any reseach prior to buying in North Cyprus they may have found out about the potential risks. Who is making assumptions???



Stubs


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 20:31

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Billyboy



If you scroll through the petition you will see what I am refering to. There is not that many non Turkish or Turkish Cypriots who have signed the petition without giving a location in Cyprus.



For some Turkish Cypriots or those with Turkish Cypriot heritage like yourself it may very well be about justice. It is clear that there are many ex-pats who do use the smokescreen of justice for Turkish Cypriots as a form of "self preservation".



clarets



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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 20:45

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Stubs....the restitution of GC land.......are you taking mind altering substances, or just listening to the voices going round inside your head ? You KNOW that will never happen,and if restitution is the big "be all and end all",how are the TC's going to get restitution ? Didnt it cross your mind that when people have lived in a place for 35 years after a war,that they may actually want to stay there ?



ilovekibris


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 20:54

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The RoC High Commission in London must be rubbing its hands at all those Brit names and home towns provided on the petition. Between them and the RoC Interior Ministry back home, I'd imagine a few gaps are being filled in their North Cyprus intelligence files. I'd be VERY surprised if a few writs weren't helped on their way by this petition and others like it.

Hang on, who's to say it wasn't set up by the Interior Ministry?



clarets



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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 21:00

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And if you rent in the UK?



Stubs


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 21:09

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Iain



With respect you are sounding rather silly now. It has been reported that the restitution of GC property has taken place via the property commission which has included a GC getting his property back as reported in the TC press a couple of years ago. It is also true that previously GC's were "advised" not to apply to the Norths property commission by their own government.



Let me ask you Iain is it important to you that TC's get restitution and would you be willing to sacrifice the property you have bought in Esentepe in order for TC's to get restitution?



billyboy1


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 21:12

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stubs...re message 139



i have just had a quick gander and i have seen plenty of non turkish names from USA, Uk, (england, scotland and wales also), Sweden, Germany, New zealand and many more countries outside of cyprus and turkey.....



so it cant be just the x pats that believe in justice



andre 514


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 21:26

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mark msg. 124



"that will allow cypriots to live/work where they want on the island"



oh yeah?



recognise north cyprus

accept a compromise solution to resolve the question of cyprus,

rather than any enforced takeover of the north by the unrepresentative roc

and with the essential requirement of a permanent turkish security guarantee

bingo!

...any cypriot can now "live/work where they want on the island"!!!



perhaps that is not what you really meant to say?

"two very different answers to the same problem, simples x"



with apologies to comparethemeercats.com



clarets



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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 21:31

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Stubs....by restitution , I assume you mean compensation,and not "getting it back" as both are justifiable meanings of the word.The ambiguity of the statement you made does not do justice to the clarity of your intention!



Stubs


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 21:32

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Billy boy



there is not that many names on the petition which are non Turkish sounding with only a non TRNC name place.



Stubs


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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 21:38

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Iain



So would you be willing to sacrifice your property in Esentepe to give TC's restitution and justice?



clarets



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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 23:26

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Stubs,which part of MY property s built on GC property ?



WAZ-24-7



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Message Posted:
08/06/2009 23:43

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msg 124 mmmmm response

The TRNC is most certainly not mine!! though I do support its administration and people.

Your reference to blame and historical reason is not conjusive to a settlement. May I suggest that you bring suggestions for solution to the discussion.



I made no conclusions in my contribution. I fear that you interpretations..of course..are again, incorrect in fact.

However, to shed light on your own conclusions

TC have negligible redress for property reclaim and or compensation. TC are most cetainly in a weaker position than similarly placed ROC citizens. This has always been very clear. The hurdles to get redress from the ROC are mountainous.

Mark, Your clear support for civil litigation and your belief that this will lead to a political settlement is ill founded. Political will and the peoples real desire for peace and prosperity will be the route to settlement.



Stubs


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Message Posted:
09/06/2009 00:38

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Clarets



Are you saying that the villa your builder has built, sarioglu, is not built on Esdeger title deed land?



cypwine


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Message Posted:
09/06/2009 00:39

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msg 141



plus all the names and address which are filled out by the ladies filling out there statistics forms at the airports!!! lots of surprised looks when a brit anwsers with "we have a house on the north"!!!



clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
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Message Posted:
09/06/2009 12:16

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That is precisely the point my myopic friend....no building on it at all previously. Just some nice weeds and dust. I believe the current landowners son lives at number 3.When he has to move out.......so will I!



Stubs


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Message Posted:
09/06/2009 14:39

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Iain



You are very good at not answering questions.



As has already been proven in courts of law the GC is still the legal owner of "their" land in the TRNC.



So I'll ask again would YOU be willing to sacrifice the villa you have had built on "esdeger" land as part of a settlement?



kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
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Message Posted:
09/06/2009 18:24

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The protest to present the petition went well today. We met at the British High Commission to present them with the petition against the Oram's judgement, then marched onto the Ledra Street Crossing to present the UN with a copy of the petition and then onto the EU building to present a copy to them. It was very, very hot! There were about 1200 people mostly Turkish Cypriots. The British turn out was very poor, which was very disappointing, although it wasn't advertised very well. There were over 10,000 names on the peition.



Sibel



Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
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Message Posted:
09/06/2009 18:48

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cypwhinge,



No doubt you and your little jock mate will fill in the rest of the info for the GC gestapo.





Signed up days ago.



clarets



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Message Posted:
09/06/2009 19:10

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Stubs,I think the issue you are talking about involves the Orams and not myself ! The same does not apply...no precedents apply and the case still has to go back to the court of Appeal.

Since all that started the IPC has been set up to deal with compensatory factors involved in ALL cases,and I will happily abide by any such ruling ! Obviously what goes for previously owned GC also will apply to TC property in the South....such as the airport at Larnaca,the school and the hospital and lots of other such areas.As property in the ROC is worth more they may have a few problems.



billyboy1


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Message Posted:
09/06/2009 19:26

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I like what you say clarets..........



clarets



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Message Posted:
09/06/2009 19:47

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How did the presentation of the petition go ? Did they burn any effigies of the ROC president or Mr.Apostolides ?



andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
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Message Posted:
09/06/2009 19:59

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stubs,



the sort of settlement you evidently hope is most unlikely

there could be a little restitution but by and large neither community

will agree to any deal where they are overwhelmed by the other side



some of the brits on "44" are sympathetic to a deal involving limited compensation

which would at the same time double the value of their modest flat or house



I cannot see this happening since the south has thrown away so many good opportunities,

some of which even involved a change to the border oops! I meant green line



this popular tactic of popping up on a north cyprus forum to try scaring expats

into giving up on north cyprus is doomed to fail since:



a) the british are as depressingly mulish as the greek cypriots

b) the vital factor is really the 100,000 new cypriots from turkey and their huge armed forces



take all your court documents, biased judgements and untenable pronouncements

and please reinsert them deep into your personal filing system







WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
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Message Posted:
09/06/2009 23:18

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Msg 160 andre.



Some very valid points.Thankyou.

Certainly the ROC has lost significant opportunity to come out of any deal smelling of roses and materially better off.

The Anan plan presented real opportunity to GC to gain land, compensation and generally benefit from the deal.

Since 2004, the TRNC has seen massive development, influx of populus and a significant pressence and attention upon the World stage.

The ROC administration continues to work towards the demise of the TRNC. The opportunity to settle and capitalise upon the Anan offer has now gone. Any settlement advantage is diminishing with time. Civil litigations by sponsored citizens will not be sufficient to topple the TRNC.

My view is that current talks and pressure from UN and EU will drive the ROC in particular to settlement.

EU resolutions forced upon the ROC by virtue of EU protocol will hopefully force the ROC into submission, acceptance and recognition of their cultural neighbours.



Stubs


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Message Posted:
10/06/2009 00:52

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Iain



you accuse me of being short sighted however you also stated previously and i quote from msg 128 "Didnt realise that was a criminal offence like Apostolides is making out". Hardly a statement of someone with 20/20 vision now is it?



It has already been established at various courts that the owner of the land is the GC prior to 1974 that is undeniable.



There have been public works projects in the south however we all know that there has not been the widepread sale of TC property in the south unlike the north who have openly sold GC property.



So just for the avoidance of doubt, would you be willing to sacrifice your property for Cypriots to find a solution?



Stubs


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Message Posted:
10/06/2009 01:05

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Andre



Try dealing in some facts re judgements, legal advice and advice from the uk government pertaining to the purchase of land/property in the TRNC.



The sort of settlement I would like to see is one that suits Cypriots.



If you have read some of my posts you will see that I do think a settlement would revolve around financial compensation for land. There no doubt will be some examples of people getting their land back but in the main it will be a financial method of compensation.



By moving people to Cyprus does not make them by any manner or means Cypriot. If you pour yedegun into a fanta glass it doesnt matter what way you look at it, it is still yedugun.



taraspring


Joined: 25/01/2009
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Message Posted:
10/06/2009 01:12

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Kibrisibel, it was advertised in Cyprus Today - 3rd June 2009, and on HBPG, so I would say it was quite extensively advertised. Far short of the anticipated crowd of 5,000 then? How many ex-pats live there?



http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/Press/CT030609_protest.html



andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
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Message Posted:
10/06/2009 09:13

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stubs,



"I do think a settlement would revolve around financial compensation"



so would I

so would the un

so would certain of the expats on cyprus 44



so it is all agreed then?



clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
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Message Posted:
11/06/2009 19:31

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Stubs Msg162, my vision since LASIK has been 20/20, thank-you ! You, however, persist in questions that belie your claimed intellect. I hadnt realised that the whole Cyprus problem was down to "Lidle ol me" to give a villa to a man who MAY claim to have something pertaining to a title deed(thats if he really didnt exchange it!)of a piece of scrub with no building on it,the value of which was probably a night out at the local boozer! It's a strange sense of value you descend to when you somehow feel that people can walk back into town after 35 years(if still alive of course) and claim something which someone else paid for and someone else built !



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
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Message Posted:
12/06/2009 11:09

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re msg 145



Andre_514/ Rauf Denktash



You sounded so similar "recognise "TRNC" and then all will be fine..



NOW.. you can say "yeah, right!" ..



That tactic has been tried since '83...



mmmmmm



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Message Posted:
12/06/2009 11:29

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Warren / Waz re msg 150



>>Your reference to blame and historical reason is not conjusive to a settlement. May I suggest that you bring suggestions for solution to the discussion. <<



..and as you know - I've done that MANY times.. putting on a show?!



>>TC have negligible redress for property reclaim and or compensation. TC are most cetainly in a weaker position than similarly placed ROC citizens. This has always been very clear. The hurdles to get redress from the ROC are mountainous. <<



)) ROFL Er, HELLO.. The TCs have had the right to reclaim their land property - albeit with the unfair six months residency rule... Until the ECHR rulings what rights did the GCs have.. come on Warren.



>>My view is that current talks and pressure from UN and EU will drive the ROC in particular to settlement. <<



More like the Courts cases and TR's EU accession..



More follows:



mmmmmm



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Message Posted:
12/06/2009 11:32

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(cont from 167 _



Waz/Waren re 150



>>Your clear support for civil litigation and your belief that this will lead to a political settlement is ill founded. Political will and the peoples real desire for peace and prosperity will be the route to settlement.<<



You've been corrected on this many times, Waz ... I campaigned of a GC YES to Annan, but I'm commenting on how things are - don't get confused...



andre 514


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Message Posted:
12/06/2009 16:49

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mark message 168,



phew!



I was replying to your post 124 about

"the right to live and work anywhere on the island"



you seem to imagine this is only possible with reunification,

and I pointed out out this was also possible with recognition

however unlikely both possiblities seem at the moment



rauf dentash?

If you are comparing me to the trnc national hero I'll take it as a compliment, thanks



Stubs


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Message Posted:
12/06/2009 16:50

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Iain



Was your surgery after or before you signed the purchase contracts for you villa? ;-)



i asked the question a couple of times due to your lack of a clear answer. A simple yes or no would suffice.



The Cyprus problem will not come down to you or indeed other who have bought Esdeger land as it will be Cypriots who decide what is best for them. Foreigners in the TRNC do have little or no voice or indeed rights and have became part of the problem by ignoring advice and buying esdeger land many of whom still do not have TRNC deeds.



Obviously if the land which you have built a house on is worth what "was probably a night out at the local boozer" then if you have followed another thread, Ibo's on a Saturday night might be better value for money



andre 514


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Message Posted:
12/06/2009 16:51

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my apologies mmmmmm I mean your message 167:



are you suggesting I actually used the phrase



"then all will be fine..." ?



I think we should be told!



dav88



Joined: 01/08/2008
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Message Posted:
12/06/2009 16:54

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There is going to be a good article about all of this in Cyprus Today on Saturday, make sure you get it



ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
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Message Posted:
12/06/2009 17:10

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Stubs wrote: "Iain, was your (eye) surgery after or before you signed the purchase contracts for your villa?"

One of the funniest posts on the forum.



andre 514


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Message Posted:
12/06/2009 19:14

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message 174 ilovekibris:



do you think so malcy?



stubs forgot to put the (eye) in front of operation,



making it somewhat less than side-splitting



did you guys think of going on a talent show as a double act?



you could call yourselves agent and provocateur



WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
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Message Posted:
13/06/2009 01:06

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mmmmmmm msg 168.



The GC have had the ECHR backed IPC as a route to settlement. As you know neither this route nor the 6 month residency qualification required in the ROC have led to any meaningfull progress.



The civil litigation route is similarly unlikely to acheive much in the way of solution and settlement.

The Political route via current talks and long awaited UN and EU intervention is the most likely route to sucess.

The objective is clear. The path is dificult and precarious. There are several political representatives out there that have the power and ability to drive this forward. These very people need to be driven into action by public opinion and by democtratic selection process.



ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
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Message Posted:
13/06/2009 14:54

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andre wrote: "you could call yourselves agent and provocateur"

And you could call yourself estate agent. If you could sell any houses, that is.



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
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Message Posted:
13/06/2009 23:11

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Dear Waz



re msg 176



I note you COMPLETELY glossed over my question as to the rights GCs had for property redress / restitution/ compo... prior to 1996 .. Did you REALLY not know there wasn't ANY.. ?



When did the ECHR rule Turkey must provide a local remedy - ( they had six months to start) and how many occupied by ( TCs/ Turks / foreigners) land properties have been restored.... ? You won't need more than one side of a sheet of paper ..



The UN's involvement, now, is simply one of encouragement.



The EU's involvement can only be the same - based on EU Directives and the recognised govts' ( RoC) laws..



WAZ-24-7



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Message Posted:
14/06/2009 01:22

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mmmmmm Mark.

The First line of my reply is illustration of route for redress for GC.

Pre 1996 is somewhat irrelevant to the more modern and de-facto situation.



Mark, your responses continue to appear shackled by your references to the past and what resolutions and directives have been ratified.



The UN and EU will, in my view take a more decisive role as the two leaders continue to flounder in their attempts to acheive settlement.

It is inappropriate to allow the Cyprus problem to fester while the rest of the World hide behind directives and resolutions that are clearly inafective in acheiving a solution.



mmmmmm



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Message Posted:
14/06/2009 09:48

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Dear Waz/ Warren



re msg 179



I'm not going to let you off the hook, mate ! ... Originally you claimed the TCs were the Cypriots without redress - you now know that it was the GCs who had NOTHING in place until the ECHR actions - whilst the TCs DID have a route in "rump" RoC law.



You simply WEREN'T correct .. it is no use telling us now that they do have the IPC route - which incidently came from LITIGATION by GCs...



Now WHAT was that you were saying that legal actions aren't constructive / conducive to achieving a settlement ;)))) ?



Please revert - sticking to the point !



Aussie


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Message Posted:
14/06/2009 13:21

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Cyprus Today p4 June 13 2009 80 year old Turkish Cypriot Cemali Raif Tahir wins right to regain family home in a Larnaca village in GC High Court after being denied permission by the interior ministry in 2005. He only won because the High Court deemed him to be a British citizen not a TC as he left Cyprus before 1960 and only visits the TRNC nit residing there.



This "smooth and fair" ROC mechanism for return of TC properties seems to need a lot of litigation and money to secure a return of property.



The system is a farce designed to create a veneer of respectability and nothing else.



You can accept the need in 1974 to use TC properties to house refugees but 35 years later there is absolutely no excuse for this to continue and those TC's who want property back should get it automatically and be compensated for full rental for loss of use etc.



Aussie



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
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Message Posted:
14/06/2009 23:35

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Dear Aussie, re msg 181



Hmm a few points you seem to have overlooked



1/ When TR invaded / intervened - some UK citizens , I know, got compo from the TR govt .. did any GCs get any before the ECHR actions? So the use of "fair" neds to be properly addressed. At least the TC COULD go through the RoC Courts and get HIS property back.



>>You can accept the need in 1974 to use TC properties to house refugees but 35 years later there is absolutely no excuse for this to continue and those TC's who want property back should get it automatically and be compensated for full rental for loss of use etc.

<<



2/ Now if a GC goes through the new IPC - which only came about because of the ECHR - can you tell me of any GCs who have had the land / property restored to them - if occupied by a TC / TR citizen? You foget there was a lot of EMPTY places in the north post July / Aug 74 and an acute shortage in the "south".. Those allocated refugee staus properies CAN'T sell 'em for private gai



mmmmmm



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Message Posted:
14/06/2009 23:38

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msg (182 cont)



Those allocated refugee staus properies CAN'T sell 'em for private gain



3/ It would indeed by GREAT if TCs didn't have to go through the farce of "residency" and this should be challenged, but do try and see how your points only show how instrinsically unfair the "TRNC" have been by allowing the selling for private gain - land / property belonging to GCs ..



Is the penny dropping, yet? You dropped a clanger.. the TCs have had MORE rights - for longer - than GCs...



andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
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Message Posted:
15/06/2009 09:53

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Ilovekibris message 177,



you are right I haven't sold a house for very many years:

but then again, I do not remember describing myself as an estate agent



what concerns me is the pantomime-style " oh yes it is, oh no it isn't"

type of ding-dong battle we get all too frequently on cyprus 44 these days

rather than the more useful, informative and original contributions



mmmmmm



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Message Posted:
15/06/2009 10:28

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Dear Andre_514



>>what concerns me is the pantomime-style " oh yes it is, oh no it isn't"



type of ding-dong battle we get all too frequently on cyprus 44 these days <<



I hope you include yourself in this concern.. !



Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
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Message Posted:
15/06/2009 12:17

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mmmmmmm



I accept your points about the TRNC compensation system for GCs .



The ROC has always argued for right of return in the vast majority of circumstances and the TRNC has argued for a comprehensive compensation/ settlement scheme. For the TRNC to accept mass return of GC's obviously it would become a majority GC state.



Given The ROCs continued demand for return of properties it is grossly hypocritical of them to impose any impediments for those that they legally recognise as the rightful owners having unfettered right to return sell or rent their properties in the ROC. You can't cry for justice on one side without implementing it yourself if you want to have credibility. Hiding behind laws of necessity where such necessity no longer exists is not satisfactory.



The TRNC doesn't support right of return for either side and is not being hypocritical in this aspect of policy. It policy is to offer a comprehensive financial settlement of all claims.



Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
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Message Posted:
15/06/2009 12:27

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If the current settlement negotiations don't succeed then the ROC should either abandon its holier than thou attitude and relinquish use of all TC properties or more sensibly accept a universal compensation scheme for both sides.



It should not be allowed to continue the facade of claiming injustice whilst not properly respecting the ownership rights it demands the TRNC does. The smoke screen of the Guardianship board is no substitute for this.





Aussie



andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
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Message Posted:
15/06/2009 15:05

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mark message 185



yea sadly I would very much include myself as responding in this pantomime,



and since it takes two to tango, there must be a "ding" as well as a "dong"



of course the basic point is still very much applicable,



using cyprus 44 is a micocosm of cyprus, it is only a "dingbat"



who believes they will recover territory by trying to scare an assortment of bloggers



ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
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Message Posted:
15/06/2009 19:55

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andre wrote: "there must be a "ding" as well as a "dong" "

In which case my dong's better than your ding.



andre 514


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Message Posted:
15/06/2009 20:12

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well up to your usual standard, ilovetolaughatmyownjokesandwhatdoesthatsayaboutmekibris



ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
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Message Posted:
15/06/2009 20:16

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Better that than to be stuck without a hint of humour or personality, andre. ;)

Sorry, BOOM BOOM.



WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
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Message Posted:
15/06/2009 21:55

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mmmmmm.

I fear that you have mis-interpereted by posts. I have not said that TC have no route to redress.



TC have negligible redress for restitution in that the hurdles are extremely prohibitive. GC too have a somewhat difficult path to follow for re-dress.



I stand by my opinion that the property problem is ill suited to civil litigation. This type of action simply instills further mistrust and divergence from a joint political solution.



The Path to settlement is clearly a political one. This, i think will eventually prevail.



mmmmmm



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Message Posted:
16/06/2009 13:15

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Dear Aussie



re msg 186/7



Thanks for responding! The problem was/ is the "TRNC" "compo system" was >> we've exchanged<< - now "move on" .. why the GCs have succeeded in the International Courts and with public opinion is because of the apparent intransigence of Turkey / "TRNC" - recognise us and we'll talk was / isn't going to work.



The RoC have played it smarter - by not allowing the wholesale disposal of GC land for private gain.



Now IF this turns out to be a sham - then - of course the GCs wouldn't have a leg to stand on.. The folly appears to be the 6 month "rump" RoC residency rule.



Things changed in 2004 with the TC yes to Annan - it became apparent that ( then - I wonder about now ) TCs were prepared to trust the UN/ EU to prevent GCs "running the show"



I wonder how the RoC can relinquish the use of TC property - you seem to forget that far more GC folk were made homeless- leaving LOTS of unoccupied land / property in the "north"..



mmmmmm



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Message Posted:
16/06/2009 13:21

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re 188



Andre_514



I don't DO the Tango.. nor do I do "scaring" . I prefer to look at facts.. I don't believe GCs will get control of their properties in any political settlement - but ironically - if they go LEGAL - via the ECHR local remedy - ultimately they would prove that TR doesn't want that and the ECHR would take the decision -making process under their cointrol



Luckily, for TR the daft "rump" RoC govt only seems to want to quote ECHR decisions that they like.. It may well be this folly that let's TR off the hook.



But let's not kid ourselves - in the case brought before this ruling - allowing TR a chance - the GCs constantly get awarded loss of use compo AND retain ownership.



mmmmmm



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Message Posted:
16/06/2009 13:29

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re msg 192 Warren / Waz



>>I fear that you have mis-interpereted by posts. I have not said that TC have no route to redress. <<



No I haven't "misinterpreted" you! ..



You made an incorrect statement ( "Political action is the way to go - not legal" ) and even now you are changing what you said..



1/ Did the gates open in 2003 as a result of political protest by the "this Country is ours" - a TC movement - or the legal action taken against TR by a TC Doctor - prevented from moving freely around Cyprus ?



2/ Did GCs have any rights - as far as TR/ "TRNC" were concerned - before the landmark rulings of the ECHR ?





YES, things are eventually sorted POLITICALLY.. but to argue this hasn't driven on talks is pure folly.





3/ It is a FACT that TCs have had a route to retake their property- and the unfair six months "residency" rule is noted - but they have the route - and TCs have ben able to move back..



andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
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Message Posted:
16/06/2009 17:27

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message 194:



mark you state at the end of your posting that gc's retain ownership



it having been suggested recently that I am an estate agent,



I naturally wonder just what your gc will do with this "ownership":



can I make a suggestion?



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
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Message Posted:
16/06/2009 19:41

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Dear Andre_514



re msg 196



You may be trying to get me to "Tango", again? !



They retain it and TR has to keep paying up for loss of use - until there is a settlement... don't forget there are 13,000 cases before the ECHR !



andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
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Message Posted:
16/06/2009 21:42

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if each "case" costs as much as the 400,000 to mount

just like the politically-inspired attack on the poor orams' pensioners,

this totals some five thousand two hundred million pounds



and if the orams "case" took four years to get only thus far,

then it will require approximately fiftytwo thousand years to hear them all,

while the whole shebang can be torpedoed by a lord's ruling or mass evasion



assuming the "cases" with their supporters (and you'd include your good self?)

were meant to induce a totally unecessary "reunification" of the two parts

they will prove to have been tilting at windmills



when the south starts behaving in a conciliatory and pragmatic fashion

I am absolutely certain the trnc and turkey would meet them at least half way

you call greek cyprus the "rump" roc methinks a freudian slip,

applying to promoters of pompous poppycock behaving worse than a donkey's rear



until the obscure and unreachable unity day: (makes churchillian victory gesture



mmmmmm



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Message Posted:
17/06/2009 11:15

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Dear Andre_514



What *is* your source of info re the Apostolides action against the Orams'? It appears to be as shaky as your advice re CAMs/ CI interfaces for reception of Showtime Arabia;)...



1/ Mr Apostolides action is not a politically-inspired attack



2/ The "poor orams' pensioners" - even if they really DIDN'T know the situation in Cyprus - have highlighted the need to check out advisories on many countries govt websites re the potential problems of buying a house in CY.



3/ The 13k cases "on hold" at the ECHR have been offered TR's IPC route and they SHOULD use it - THEN complain to the ECHR if the rulings aren't fair



4/ The cases before ECHR are to get back THEIR homes.. simple. I very much doubt "reunification" is the end game



5/ What's a mass evasion - are you referring to your "head in the sand" attitude to the property question ? ;)



6/ It wasn't UNTIL the ECHR cases started going against TR that any sort of "conciliation" started....



Birdsong


Joined: 14/05/2009
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Message Posted:
19/06/2009 11:59

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Message 200 of 203 in Discussion

Where did the figure 400,000 come from everybody?

If you'd done your homework, you'd know that the judge awarded the Orams nearly double that for their costs when they won in the High Court (this win still remains extant, by the way). Double that to include the CG costs and you've got over 1.5 million at what was approx the halfway point so far.......

The only winners in this will be the lawyers so it will make much more sense to bring all this litigation to a close and let the Presidents sort it out.



daffodils


Joined: 11/11/2008
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Message Posted:
19/06/2009 12:07

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http://www.londragazete.com/haber_detay.asp?haberID=4248



Not in the national papers as far as I can see. surprise surprise



ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
19/06/2009 12:11

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daffodils,

Why would anything be in the national papers? There's no story of any merit and there are probably 1000 other doimestic and foreign news items of far more interest going on. The world does not revolve around north Cyprus.



daffodils


Joined: 11/11/2008
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Message Posted:
19/06/2009 12:19

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ilovekibris



Why would the Oram's case be everywhere including a prime time documentry on national television? The world does not revolve around South Cyprus



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