****Cop Tasers granny******

gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 18:03

A police officer in the US shot a 72-year-old great-grandmother with a Taser gun after she refused to sign a speeding ticket.

Film of the incident shows Kathryn Winkfein crumple to the ground moaning as electric shocks jolt through her body.

The pensioner was Tasered during a confrontation with Travis County Sheriff's Deputy Chris Bieze.

Mrs Winkfein was stopped for driving at 60mph in a 45mph zone just west of Austin, Texas.

A dashboard camera in the deputy's car shows Mrs Winkfein refusing to sign her speeding ticket, getting out of her white pickup truck and cursing at the deputy constable.

There is a video of the incident on ITN YAHOO News



Isn't it a sad day that this can happen to an old lady, once we would have shown respect for her age, OK she was in the wrong, but was it worthy of this sort of treatment I thought the officer was so disrespectful If we pushed someone it would be classed as an assault. Could have walked away taken keys from ignition until she was calm

TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:09

She didn't respect the Police officer or his duty that we give him the power of to uphold the law.

A criminal is a criminal is a criminal regardless of age, be it 1 day old or 100 years and over. She broke the law by speeding, got caught, thought she could verbally abuse a police officer and get away with it. I say he used all reasonable force to detain her to arrest her after she wasn't coming calmly. Had he not been alone then his actions would have been seen as over the top. If she had just signed the ticket, paid the fine she wouldn't now be facing 1 year in jail.

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:41

exactly T.C



some of them grannies are rockhard ,lol



kav

gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:52

What about using calming tactics, totally agree the lady was in the wrong, I am not excusing her of her behaviour. It is the behaviour of the officer that's at fault.After all he is supposed to help keep the peace. Come on she was 72, not much of a threat!! Should he be on the streets if he is unable to talk a 72 year old down, just seemed a bully to me.

racoonchic



Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3223

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:56

sources say she was also dealing viagra and the cop was very hard on her

TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 22:09

Gillken,

"Come on she was 72, not much of a threat!! "

I beg to differ. I once had a gentleman of 80 arrested and charged with assault after he complained with violence, in that he gave me a black eye and cut lip, that the KFC Meal Deal that I served him was inadequate and not worth the money he had been charged. Regardless of the fact that he had the same thing week after week, this time he was more drunk than usual and not in a good mood and just spoiling for a fight and i was to be his target.

He was given a 2 year Conditional Discharge, ordered to pay £500 compensation and court costs of £100. He even turned up to court in a none sober condition.

Never tell me that the elderly are never a threat!

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 22:14

I don't think age is any indication as to whether someone has a weapon especially in the USA. She doesn't seem like a little sweet old granny to me. She could still pull out a gun and shoot the officer. Police officers get killed in America on a daily basis. Would you want to take a chance?

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 22:20

Given that we don't have the video clip on this thread surely we should be keeping open minds as to the incident itself.

That said, it sometimes can take a bit more of the baton and CS to get irate seniors under control. Apparently.

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 22:33

Bear in mind that the Tazer is a debilitating but non lethal weapon I don't see the issue. Should you respect the elderly just because they are elderly or should you respect the law just because it is the law, I go with the latter. If the officer felt he was in danger he protected him self.

An 88 year old man just killed a security guard for no reason, if he had been tazered before he could pull the trigger would you still defend him ???

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 22:36

At least the cop didn't tell her she had two choices - Rodney King or Martin Luther King.

Trudy


Joined: 25/05/2009
Posts: 369

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 23:13

İ agree with the whole "she broke the law" business but i do feel it is a little harsh to tazer her!!! No disrespect to any police officers on here but some do seem to get on their high horses sometimes and like to take advantage of them toys they get given! (Which is fair do's in a lot of cases) And i only say some police before anyone has a go! She should have accepted she broke the law, should not have acted in the manner she did but like someone said, he should have just taken her keys off her or something and stuck her in the back of the car or something!

Trudy


Joined: 25/05/2009
Posts: 369

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 23:16

Ps. The elderly can be a pain in the butt sometimes though, i often have gone to open a door to a shop so i could go in and one of them barges past like im a personal door opener, never say thanks either. And they skip queues and then say "ooh i didnt see you there dear"!! Yet dont move!

twaddle


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 00:03

I am not sure what powers the US Police rely on with regard to using force, but in the UK you need to justify that the force used is reasonable in the circumstances. I have not viewed the video, however, as a serving Police officer, I think it would be very difficult for any UK officer to argue that using a taser on a 72 year old lady was reasonable unless he had used other tactics which had failed and she would have otherwise caused him or another person harm.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 00:17

Who says that once you are a certain age that you no longer pose a threat? This 'oh he could have taken her keys off her.. etc' idea is I'm afraid a dangerous one and would be a very dangerous tactic for a police officer to adopt.



If you don't know the person then they are an unknown quantity and an unknown threat. Twaddle, I can understand where you are coming from re reasonable force but I'd rather defend the use of a taser to that of a baton strike. In the US guns are like sweeties, no one knows who is carrying one, 72 year olds included.

twaddle


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 00:35

Hector, surely the fact that firearms are much more prevalent in the US will be a factor, but I would still expect that any cop worth his/her salt would use a taser,pepper spray, baton strike or any other such action in line with the threat posed by the opposing party. I am shortly to retire, short, overweight and nowhere near as fit as I used to be. I still believe that I would be able to handle a 72 year old woman, who it appears was unarmed without resorting to using defensive equipment. A good cop uses his powers of persuasion in 99% of encounters with hostile subjects. Failing that, don't the US police officers receive any training in restraint tactics?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 00:41

Can you remember the days when all you had was a truncheon and your wits? When people respected the uniform? You had been taught at training school some Home Office approved restraint techniques which were for the most part bloody useless when the suspect didn't know that s/he was supposed to give in.

Krin52


Joined: 25/08/2008
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 07:47

Not necessarily an "non-lethal" weapon ....... man died after being tasered 3 times in northern Australian yesterday

Navek



Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 2656

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 08:50

Here's a link to part of the video,

make your own minds up after viewing.....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPAydhcJ92I



Navek

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 14:08

In the heavily edited (wonder why)? video - yes she was irrascible; not once did I hear the Police Officer say please, or show any courtesy. She DID say a few times - albeit in a snappy manner "give me the thing, I'll sign it" when already away from the road, behind the car - but for reasons known only to the bully boy (for that is clearly what he was) he didn't then hand it to her to sign, but just kept wanting to exercise the control his uniform (which he defamed and debased) allows him to do. He is the very reason Police in UK and US are held in such contempt now. He could quite clearly have handcuffed this - much shorter than him - elderly woman, and could have talked her down, but instead he displayed as much loss of control as she did - yet he is PAID to exercise control. In general, a 72 year old woman does NOT have the physical strength of a drunk (or otherwise) 72 year old man; it was already clear she didn't have a gun (NOT that he checked), old age indicates weak heart!

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 17:28

" He is the very reason Police in UK and US are held in such contempt now."



Complete tosh. In your opinion maybe not in many others.



"it was already clear she didn't have a gun (NOT that he checked)"



How was it clear? How was he going to check when she was so beligerent?



I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 17:46

He is the very reason why I and everyone I know (I know many people) of varying ages, have no respect for the Police these days - from cocky "I'm wearing a uniform so I can do/say what I like" to the overweight, laissez faire disposition of the majority of law enforcers. I have worked with the Police, for them, and alongside them - and am appalled at the Force we now have in UK - as in most organisations, there is too much paperwork, too many jobsworths, too much red tape, too little common sense - too much money wasted, and the bad apples detracting from the few who still think for themselves, know when to compromise, and are confident enough in themselves to not use their uniform or position to attempt to cower those in their sights when choosing the right words or actions can achieve so much more. He should have told her to exit the vehicle with hands raised, to then check the car and her for a weapon, failing which why didn't he handcuff her? you cannot defend the indefensible.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 19:42

Nothing quite liking a sweeping generalisation to try & win your argument. I find it sad that everyone you know you believe thinks the same as you do. Most of what you say is tosh. You don't have a clue as to how you should deal with such a situation. 'Armchair critic' springs to mind. You ask why didn't he handcuff her? He tried, she resisted.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 19:46

remember "Ma Barker"

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 19:48

Or Ma Baker even.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 19:56

Yep...her as well.



God forbid when you were a special copper (alleged) the taser was not invented! You would have tried it out on your granny just for the hell of it.

gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 20:16

Totally agree word for word with MsGarnet, being trained in restraining, if I could put a angry child to the floor in a single restraint, pretty sure the officer would have the ability to do the same a 72 year old would be a doddle, if she had a gun it would have been pulled before she got out of her vehicle,if that's the case why don't they just issue tickets, think we are missing the point we are making imaginary reasons for his behaviour. That wasn't the issue, it was his attitude that is the problem. Police are here as peace keepers, part of that process is being approachable, and having negotiation skills, so why was it. Whilst in a restraint we would be accused of assault even though it was in a safe and calm manner yet the Police would come and basically "rough up" the child simply because they were annoyed with being called out but that was OK.

Yes I have seen many an incident to back up the claims of MsGarnet.

Treat a person like an animal they will respond like one !!!

twaddle


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 21:40

I think there have been some rather sweeping generalisations made above which make me rather sad. Most Police Officers are thoroughly decent, honest, hard working people. Of course there is the odd bad apple that give us a bad name but they are few and far between. I recieve many times more letters of thanks for the manner in which officers have gone out of their way in comparison to the number of complaints. I could tell you of incidents where I have been on a few occasions hospitalised having been attacked without any reason by Black people, drug addicts etc I will not however start saying that therefore all black people or drug addicts are violent people any more than I would expect that the public would describe all police officers as violent, bullies or dishonest.

decanddyl


Joined: 17/01/2009
Posts: 792

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 21:49

Is this p.c. from a pc

jock1



Joined: 06/01/2008
Posts: 3786

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 22:00

I thought she was tidy, i would give her one....

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 22:07

Jock, in your own imortal words "Filth"

jock1



Joined: 06/01/2008
Posts: 3786

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 22:25

Paul, lol, look i left you alone with the kilt, Keep the faith

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 23:18

I forgot about the requirements for total accuracy about the kilt Jock, I should have left it alone.

Don't tell phylray but I found something that almost ceratinly proves an englishman had nothing to do with the short kilt but as I am allready up to my neck, I should stop digging.



Alba gu bràth

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
13/06/2009 00:11

Suppose I was to tell you that this sweet little 72 yr old lady has previous convictions for armed robbery; and has just been released on parole after serving time for assault with a deadly weapon?

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
13/06/2009 01:01

Hector (such an apposite nic) if you were to tell us that, you would be lying - are you a polemicist for the sake of it? How the hell can you defend a bully boy with zero people skills being so intimidated by a 4'11" 72 year old, that instead of defusing the situation and giving her the ticket to sign (as she asked, albeit belligerently) time and again - he escalated the situation by raising his voice and threatening her with tasering, TOTALLY IGNORING her request to give her the ticket to sign. If I were amongst the decent police in the Force, I would be doing all I could right now, to rid the Force of inadequates such as him, as they give all the rest a bad name. That his superior celebrates such inarticulate dysfunctional behaviour shows this rotten attitude comes down from the top. How dumb are the Police Force there, to think releasing the (edited) video would do them any favours - it hashas totally the reverse effect! Look at the video - crystal clear the Officer was mindless

Flyermay


Joined: 05/07/2009
Posts: 1

Message Posted:
05/07/2009 17:22

This madness has to be stopped!!!



Please sign the official petition against British officers torturing more people with 50,000 volts electro-shock.



Sign now at: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/EndTasers/



370+ human beings have already been killed by police tasers in North America, and many more have been incapacitated for life.