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Has Turtle hit the nail on the head

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wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 19:55

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Message 1 of 37 in Discussion

We all know that there are an alledged 100.000 people in the ROC (the south) that cannot get their deeds from the Government.



WHY? People talk of the difficulty with mortgaged land! Bullshit!



Turtle puts forward the view that maybe the reason is because the land is dispossed land left by the TCs when they were forced



North (by their own troops)........I THINK TURTLE IS SPOT ON!



Why do you feel that they (GCs) will not issue Deeds? Why, despite the British Government protestations(30% are Brits)



can our Government not get assurrances from the GC South that these deeds cannot or will not be issued. These people are



part of The European Community. It is disgraceful.



The British Government should DEMAND that the ROC prove that the land to which these "proposed" deeds refer, was in fact



Greek Cypriot property/Land to sell, and not land "stolen" from TCs as they fled North, to protect their families.



Let us establish the facts before we sign any agreement



Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:07

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Message 2 of 37 in Discussion

Never trust a geek bearing gifts wyn









I would trust a brit bearing a bottle of j/ d though !!



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:18

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Message 3 of 37 in Discussion

Wyn wrote



"The British Government should DEMAND that the ROC prove that the land to which these "proposed" deeds refer, was in fact Greek Cypriot property/Land to sell, and not land "stolen" from TCs as they fled North, to protect their families"



They have just introduced a bill which will protect future buyers but it is not retrospective and they will do nothing for the 30,000 foreign purchasers and 100,00 Cypriot buyers currently awaiting property deeds. They are being left high and dry, it STINKS of coruption and cover up.....



I think Turtle may have something.............



dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:19

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Message 4 of 37 in Discussion

The british government need to get of that bloody fence again,

Paul.



ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:30

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Message 5 of 37 in Discussion

Out of interest, during our recent 2 weeks in N Cyprus, we came across at least 4 Ex-Brit couples/families trying to sell up in the South and buying in the North.



Their general consensus was that they were fed up with the high prices, the surly attitude of Greek Cypriots, overdevelopment and the problems with property.





Rob



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:33

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Message 6 of 37 in Discussion

The Saints,



Talk of burying the evidence!! Stinks...I repeat stinks! Show me the evidence, and if I am wrong. I will publically appologise.



Don't hold your breath. As my old Grandad used to say.....Beware of Greeks, bearing gifts!



The Saints, I look forward to that pint, that is if there have been no knocks on the door, from men in dark suits.



Disgraceful.!



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:37

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Message 7 of 37 in Discussion

Wyn



Men in dark suits???



Are the Jehovas Witnesses doing the rounds again??



Saint



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:40

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Message 8 of 37 in Discussion

Not where we live.



You should know that we are all Christians at Wynyard. John Hall told us we had to be!



wynper



Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:45

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Message 9 of 37 in Discussion

no its the moonies or the scientologists they both have bases in trnc



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:47

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Message 10 of 37 in Discussion

Oh no Mooning Scientologists at the door on a Saturday morning.........



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 20:52

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Message 11 of 37 in Discussion

Does reality pose a problem to you lads?



wynd



twaddle


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 21:33

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Message 12 of 37 in Discussion

I would be interested to hear form any TC that has family land in the south that they can actually prove has been built on and sold to other parties. I would love to hear that this has actually happened but to date have not heard from anyone that this has actually happened to, only these conspiracy theories. We all know about compulsory purchase which has occurred which has yet to provide owners with any recompense (Larnaca Airport etc). Can anyone actually provide evidence of TC land being illegally sold on. There must be someone out there who can step up to the plate and provide the evidence.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 21:42

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Message 13 of 37 in Discussion

Twaddle,



There was such a case on this board a few days ago, i Pathos



In the interests of fairness, lets hear it. If your former land in the South has been built on, and you have not been fully compensated. Speak up!!



Turning the other cheek, could cost you dear! SPEAK NOW, OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE!



If in doubt, speak out! Twaddle has provided the opportunity to be heard!



wyn



Raman


Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 10

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 22:16

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Message 14 of 37 in Discussion

Wyn/twaddle mess 12

And at the same time maybe try to find out if there are any TCís who live in the UK (or EU) with land in the south. If so, why not try to make the Orams case backfire on the GC side. The reasoning beingÖ to challenge the 6 month residency rule in the south for any TC seeking to reclaim his property back in that part of the island. As we all know the GCs are happy for there to be no barriers between EU states when it suits them i.e. Orams case, so why canít a TC say, well Iíve been living on EU territory (say in UK) for at least 6 months which must count just the same as living in south Cyprus all both are in EU, so I want my property back. If GCs try to refuse, then surely the TC could claim to have been discriminated against under EU law/ECHR etc etc. There must be some TCís living in UK this could apply to?



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 22:28

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Message 15 of 37 in Discussion

mmmmmm,



Now as you well know I am something of a fan of your knowledge of The Cyprus Situation.



May I ask, YET again.............



Why, in YOUR OPINION do not The ROC issue what is alleged to be 100,000 plus deeds for homes that have been rightfully



purchased. Some say that the land is mortgaged ,(that would be fraud) others that the deeds relate to TC land left over when



they were forced into The North. (That would be theft ,stolen land)



WHY, again in your opinion, despite being members of The EC, do they disregard the protestations of The UK Government



when 30% 0f those involved are British purchasers., Why do they pretend that the matter is to be resolved, then hide the



evidence and agree to make any legislation retrospective. WHAT, IN YOUR Knowledgeable OPINION,DO YOU FEEL THEY ARE



HIDING?



It is only when people are in possession of the facts, that JUST decisions, binding on all parties, can be agreed.



wyn



ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 22:33

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Message 16 of 37 in Discussion

msg 1,



Are you seriously suggesting 130,000 properties in the south may have belonged to TCs? Do a bit of sensible research on the demographics of Cyprus - particularly for the period 1974-75 - before getting back to me, ta.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 22:42

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Message 17 of 37 in Discussion

Raman msg 14.



The problem would be cost. The Orams case is POLITICAL with The Greek Government picking up the legal tab!



I think Turkey take the view that with 30.000 troops allegedly in situ, there is not the need for such political niceties.



They are happy to await a settlement that they can live with, then they will go home.



I am reminded of the sayings of Chairman Mao..."Power is in the barrel of a gun"



In my opinion time is on The Turkish side!



Just my view,that is all.



wyn



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 22:43

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Message 18 of 37 in Discussion

There are only two at my age, alive in the village. The young generation must learn the past and must follow their leaders. Otherwise, they may be lured by the Greek Cypriots, who pretend to want peace and a Cyprus solution. I believe that the Greek Cypriots, still, want the whole of Cyprus. And they want Turks to leave and go. This will never happen I want to tell them. We will all die but there will always be Turks on this island because it was their homeland in the first place. What they stole from us, we got back. Let the world understand and let them not treat Turks as looters. We were the ones looted and deprived of our land and properties by EOKA campaign, Orthodox Church and Archbishop Makarios. Turkish properties left in South Cyprus are more valuable than theirs in the North. Let them exchange and settle the property issue once and for all.Ē

Not written by me they are the words of an elderly TC.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 22:47

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Message 19 of 37 in Discussion

Ilovekibris,



No! I am suggesting, based on comments made on this forum, that title to the land on the outstanding estimated 100,000



deeds in the ROC, should be proven. Something wrong in establishing fact, in your world?



twaddle


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 23:04

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Message 20 of 37 in Discussion

Ilovekibris, ref message 16, I agree that it would be daft to presume that 100,000 plus homes in the south were built on TC land. However, we all know that in the north, numerous properties have been constucted on plots of land allegedly belonging to GC individuals. Thus,it is quite possible that a large number of properties could be built on a smaller number of plots. Incidentally, we continually hear of 180,000 plus GC's being forcibly evicted from their properties in 1974 but let's get one thing straight, there will not be 180,000 properies vacated. Many will have been living on family owned land and others will have been living in rented/tied properties. Not all GC's were property magnates! some were in a similar position to the TCs.



ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 23:16

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Message 21 of 37 in Discussion

twaddle,

Good points about proportions and sub-division which I accept. But I still think some people are getting a bit deluded about how TC property in the south is treated compared with GC property in the north.

In most cases it's a rather sad attempt at self-justification. I would say about 90% of posters on this forum care more about the future chances of them losing their money than giving a stuff about the Turkish Cypriots.



Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 23:36

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Message 22 of 37 in Discussion

ilovekibris wrote: crap.



We were in Kaparis in May and since out last visit they are living like sardines over there now. Apartrments overlooking villas and houses to the extent you have to pull your curtains.



On our way back to Larnaca airport the nice cab driver was telling up that the new terminal will be opening soon. I asked him will the TC's get the old one back....he laughed his nuts off......Yeh mate....dey can grow tomartoes in de olds wun



One thing they care more about TC's than you do. How about moving south.



twaddle


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
11/06/2009 23:47

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Message 23 of 37 in Discussion

Ilovekibris, ref message 21, I agree that many posters will feel this way, that is I think understandable. Many of us have invested considerable amounts of money in the TRNC and of course, to suddenly feel that it is all starting to unwind is most unsettling. I hope that there is a final solution in the near future that will allow all, whether GC,TC or foreign buyers to feel settled and for us all to continue to live a full and happy existence. None of us can turn back time and put right all the wrongs that have been done by both sides. People have needed to get on with their lives and the resulting quagmire is in dire need of a political settlement. GCs in the majority, I am sure, will realise that they will not be returning to how it was prior to July 1974. They are human and naturally will hope to wring as much out of the situation as they can and have placed their trust in politicians who have not always had the best interests of refugees in mind when negotiating a settlement.



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 00:59

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Message 24 of 37 in Discussion

Dear Wyn,



re msg 1



Sorry, but this is simply not the case- it is simply a case of financial mismanagement by Cypriots who became builders - after they had just lost a packet in the Cyprus Stock Exchange bubble. Not dissimilar to the cases in the north



Money was raised against the land they had to build - and the land was mortgaged. In many cases the builds weren't professional and planning codes were not adhered to.





In Cyprus- the development isn't parcelled - so if there are issues - NONE of the properties get deeds.



No excuses.. it is shameful, and the UK Foreign Office web site has warned about this in addition to the risks of buying on disputed land in Cyprus.



IF it turns out that that TC land HAS been allowed to be developed for private gain - then it is a criminal offence in the RoC - and it would make a mockery of the higher moral ground stance the RoC has enjoyed.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 01:19

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Message 25 of 37 in Discussion

Thanks for your explanation Mark.



I still believe it should be a demand of The Britsh Government, that there be a detailed analysis of all UK claims for deeds



that the land was not formally owned by TCs forced to move North. I personally believe within this nightmare lies a can of worms



which could directly affect a settlement of land claims between TCs and GCs.



Just my view, thats all, but I would be willing to make a substantial wager!



wyn



ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 17:42

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Message 26 of 37 in Discussion

twaddle,



well put.



Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 18:26

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Message 27 of 37 in Discussion

Not only have these righteous hypocrites mortgage these poor sods homes they have been ripping them of on property tax, charging, in some cases, thousands of pounds and then paying the government a few hundred.



Troodo.



Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 18:30

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Message 28 of 37 in Discussion

Oh, by the way, anyone read the frount page of the Cyprus Mail today.



Troodo.



Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 21:18

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Message 29 of 37 in Discussion

Hi Wyn,

Been away on business for a few days and only just picked up on this thread.

I think the question of TC,s coming forward with info on thier land in the south will probably prove fruitless as I believe most have surrended thier deeds to the TRNC govenment in exchange for land in the north so I would imagine they may not give a damn if it has been built on or not.



I still do believe though that some (not all Pikey) land used to belong to TC,s and thus ROC keeping quiet that it has now been redeveloped into "residential" area,s.



Its also interesting to note that the old Larnaca Airport will be used as a commercial airport.........so not a public project then and going to be used for profit ? is that not illegal in the ROC !



TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 21:31

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Message 30 of 37 in Discussion

The Cyprus Mail today reports on just how much the ROC Govt are protecting TC Villages, allowing them to be quarried for building materials........





http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 21:46

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Message 31 of 37 in Discussion

Turt.



I think you are the man! I think that your fears that TC land in the South has been developed (for profit) is the reason that The ROC are witholding 100,000 deeds. NOT ALL but a good many! The ROC Government" DARE NOT" legitemise them as it would compound an illegal act!!!



NOW THEN.........TO THE GOVERNMENT OF THE ROC.......PROVE that the withheld deeds do not relate to TC abandoned land.

for which compensation has not been paid.



Mr Milliband and The Government of Great Britian......DEMAND the the ROC...fellow members of the EC....prove that the land relating to the 100.000 witheld deeds does NOT relate to land left by TCs when they were forced into the North (TRNC) for

protection by The Turkish Army.



Easy...............Now I am not a betting man but.............how much, and what odds.?



wyn



Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 22:03

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Message 32 of 37 in Discussion

Put me a couple of hundred on that bet Wyn....................I only bet on "certs"



jock1



Joined: 06/01/2008
Posts: 3786

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 22:15

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Message 33 of 37 in Discussion

here you go wyn, its all over the island....



http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2947662/cyprus_property_market_sponsored_by_http_www_buysellcyprus_com/



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 22:35

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Message 34 of 37 in Discussion

Spot on Jock, but WHOSE land is it that they are mortgaging?



IF YOU ARE A TC, AND YOUR LAND HAS BEEN DEVELOPED IN THE SOUTH......POST IT ON THIS BOARD!(It doesnt matter if you have been given "Exchange Land" or not.)



THIS INFORMATION COULD BE VITAL TO A FAIR AND AMICABLE SETTLEMENT to The Cyprus Problem.









Jock, Its your round.............bloody Scots, they are all over!





wynge



madturk


Joined: 25/03/2009
Posts: 217

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 22:39

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Message 35 of 37 in Discussion

oh dear ,all you one sided greek supporters .has your bubble burst ,greeks are no better than turks selling land thats not theirs.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
12/06/2009 22:42

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Message 36 of 37 in Discussion

madturk,



Then put up proof!





wyn



Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
13/06/2009 01:24

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Message 37 of 37 in Discussion

The Saints Msg30, the link will probably be explained as "Compulsory Purchase"...



Yet another example of double standards.



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