1955-1959 Who can forget

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 02:23

Modern day focus and attention is drawn to 1974 and the intervention of Turkey to prevent the total eradication of the minor turkish cypriot population and to achieve Enosis by majority greek cypriots



1955-1959

The Greek EOKA Campaign and the killing of British and Irish Service Men / Woman and Civilians.



http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/ROH.htm



History speaks volumes, who can forget.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 02:33

The Greek Cypriots seem to be able to conveniently forget

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 02:43

The EU and the International Community also.

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 03:36

Amazing how some traits never change:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 03:40

ilovekibris and the useless idiots guide.

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 03:52

The HUGE beard of Makarios and the weazle Grivas.



Another of my dislikes, no doubt iluvkibris best adoraton figurines.

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 03:58

Since 1974 peace has prevailed.

Perhaps the Turkey way is more fruitful than the Greek way.



EU and International Community - You decide.

Geoff1131MK11


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 07:36

CyprusChill, there have certianly been fewer people killed.



Good thing or bad thing.



You decide.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 09:23

Perspective Alert



1/ Cypriots of Greek ethnicity felt particularly aggrieved by Britain reneging on an offer of independence - other Colonies had "bumped off" HM forces personnel to get independence - do we harbour grudges against them? NO.. many folk who served - and even lost friends live in Cyprus and are friends with GCs. Do we still feel the same way to Irish folk who tacitly or actively supported the cause to rid the British presence on the island of Ireland?!!



2/ David ( his site) would be the first to admit a "bias" to TCs



3/ Don't get confused between EOKA and EOKA B - many Cypriots who wanted independence fought against the Greek Junta inspired coup ( encouraged by the CIA)



Cont

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 09:28

RE msg 9, 6xm > Don't get confused between EOKA and EOKA B <



=> Did they mark their bullets - before they shot Britsish men, women and children (preferably) in the back?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 09:33

cont from 9



YES, there was a sizeable number of GCs who wanted ethnic Turks off the island - especially AFTER the Brits put them in positions of responsibility - when GCs voluntarily (or with coercion) refused to cooperate with the British.



That's why the Orthodox Church started lending money to GCs to buy out TCs a premium price - the distrust ( Divide and Rule) had been nurtured by US - the British - in order to keep the bases at all costs..



re msg 8/9



1974 - TR "intervention"



..and HOW many folk were killed / maimed in a short period of two months... ? Do you think GCs would have massacred men of serving age at Tochni if it wasn't in retaliation for their relations killed by TR troops..



YUP.. a little perspective, please - the dark deeds were NOT just a GC "thing".. Certain TC weren't above "bumping off" Turks/ TCs to create anger within the TC community.



I'm not suggesting making Cypriots live together - I AM suggesting letting them try to SHARE the island

gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
Posts: 1591

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 09:34

Britsish....you really are asking for trouble Dutchie.



MM,is there actually any proof the CIA were egging on EOKA or is this just your personal opinion?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 09:40

Dear DC, re msg 10



...and do you still "hate" all South Mollocans ( sp) because they fought for independence and killed Dutch folk at home to promote their cause



Can you forgive the South Africans for "taking back" their territory from the Boers and the British?



Oooh, and don't trust those Germans...





Come on Hans, I thought you were a history expert... I wasn't aware EOKA-B were fighting the Brits..should we "hate" the Turks for engaging SBA troops in skirmishes (in August 74) as they approached the SBA?

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 09:48

M's - "Certain TC weren't above "bumping off" Turks/ TCs to create anger within the TC community.

"



Isn't that just what the Akritas plan was mooting? (and don't deny it because that's just what the plan was all about- wind up the TC's until they react and then retaliate with force)

JohnBey


Joined: 05/04/2009
Posts: 46

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 09:53

Dear mmmmmm,



{I'm not suggesting making Cypriots live together - I AM suggesting letting them try to SHARE the island}



We are sharing the island, We are on the north side and they are on the south side, great. Unfortunately the GCs want all the island, it is not going to happen.

Aslan


Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 757

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 10:02

Sorry I can't remember 1955 - 1959, I think I was in liquidform while the British, TMT and Turkish troops were in uniform, but I would like to thank them for giving me the freedom to walk the streets of Cyprus without being shot in the back by the enemy.



NO SURRENDER

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 10:33

Re 14



Jetski



YES.. so can we agree that there was lots of skulduggery going on - by all sides ?



re msg 15



JohnBey re 16





>>GCs want all the island, it is not going to happen.<<



Couldn't agree more . but neither is "TRNC" ever going to be recognised as a "state" .. The BEST soln for TCs is real autonomy as part of a bi-zonal federated state within the EU - with TR in the club, too !



re 12 Gooligan



More precisely egging on the Greek Junta - whilst egging on the Turks - agreeing with how much territory they would be allowed to take



Do a seach in google for CIA involvement in Cyprus and try to find a book "The Cyprus Conspiracy" by Brendan O'Malley and Ian Craig... James Callaghan had privately admitted that Britain had sent the task force. "It was the most frightening moment of my career," he said. "We nearly went to war with Turkey. But the Americans stopped us."



No absolute Proof- just lots of data -when put together.. CY's US Ambassador - death suspi

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 10:41

re 17 cont



A link for Gooligan



http://grhomeboy.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/cia-document-confirms-kissingers-involvement-in-selling-cyprus-for-30-silver-pieces/



As you know the US has had a "special relationship" with TR and has used N.Cyprus bases



This link below is "interesting" - if you can ignore the authors ethnicity



http://www.btinternet.com/~argyros.argyrou/cyprus/Takism6.htm

billyboy1


Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 590

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 10:42

Am reading the cyprus conspiracy at the moment, i keep having to put it down, cause it makes me angry, but then 10 minutes later i have to pick it up again......



War is war, people die on both sides, whether soldiers or the innocent...all bloody politics.....and propoganda

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 11:54

I wouldn't class ilovekiris as a useful idiot, more of just an idiot.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 11:55

Damn these TC’s, how inconsiderate of them, they should have lined up to be shot instead of fighting for survival.



Troodo.

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 12:44

EOKA didn't fight for independence they fought for ENOSIS (union) with Greece. There were many prior attempts to negotiate a compromise independence for Cyprus but the GC leadership held out for Enosis.



The eventual independence of Cyprus was a compromise step following the terrorist campaign and for many was only seen as a stepping stone to the eventual aim of Enosis anyway.



In this sense Cyprus was a different situation to other colonial liberation struggles which had the aim of achieving independence.



The situation was complicated by the substantial TC minority population which was in the main content to remain under British rule but if this was not possible many preferred some form of union/ Taksim with Turkey.



In some ways the strong sense of Cypriot identity seems to have been formed after 1974 when the GC & TC populations no longer identified so strongly with Greece and Turkey.





Aussie

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 13:09

Dear Aussie

re msg 22



>>There were many prior attempts to negotiate a compromise independence for Cyprus but the GC leadership held out for Enosis.

<<



Surely this is an "interesting" attempt at re-writing of CY historical facts... ?!



Can you expand on these prior attempts with dates and the "deal" involved?, please. Happy to concede and admit I'm wrong.





>>EOKA didn't fight for independence they fought for ENOSIS (union) with Greece<<



You aren't correct here, either.. some wanted independence .. some wanted Enosis -without caring / thinking of the consequences for themselves, TCs, etc



This Wiki article ( which *I* think is quite straight ) is worth reading - it shows the different GC/ Greek perspectives..



Mark

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 14:56

Mark Quoting form Nicos A. Rolandis former ROC foreign minister etc (Cyprus Mail Sunday, January 11, 2009)

"In an article of mine of January 30, 2008 I referred to 15 opportunities for a solution which were presented to us since 1948 (Consultative Assembly). We rejected them all. Not all of them were good. However they were all better than what Christofias negotiates with Talat today"



Two such proposals i Understand were the 1956 Lord Radcliffe Constititional Proposals and the McMillan Plan of 1958.



Some details are on this site http://cyprus-conflict.org/



Unfortunately I no longer have the copies of the Cyprus Dialogue and books I read on this subject so can't run through the 15 opportunities quoted and how many were pre 1960.



Aussie

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 15:04

Also later



How teachers flunked history test Sunday, (Cyprus Mail January 25, 2009) By Makarios Droushiotis





Quotes



"In reality, Makarios did not believe in independence. He sought to abolish the Republic of Cyprus before an independent state could take root, which would have made union with Greece infeasible. Thus the repudiation of the 1959 agreements, that is, the breakup of the Republic of Cyprus, was being mulled even before the independent state had been declared.



According to a Greek secret service memo, on May 26, 1960 Makarios gathered together the section leaders and sought to reestablish EOKA with a view to repudiating the agreements before independence could be declared. The Greek secret service, incidentally, had a presence on the island before independence, as did the Turkish secret service. In the end, fearing the consequences, Makarios shied away from repudiating the agreements, although this goal always remained at the back of his mind."

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 15:20

AHA, SORRY, Aussie,



I meant offers re independence from the UK !!

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 21:16

shame the turks interviened and the greeks couldn't rid the island of all the cypriot turks on the island because dear mmmmmm is about to convince me that the greeks were actually attacked and they were the ones who were about to be made extinct. thats probably also why they are now in the e.u. a "don't worry" present,.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 22:38

6m;



"bumped off"



call it what it is



murder.



And yes I do have a certain disdain for those who shoot soldiers/police/civilians in the back or blow them to bits by remote control.



Ethnicity doesn`t matter, neither does religion.



Damn them and all who support them to hell.

ilovekibris


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
26/06/2009 22:53

newscoop: "And yes I do have a certain disdain for those who shoot soldiers/police/civilians in the back or blow them to bits by remote control2



Like TMT, for instance? Just as murderous and cowardly as EOKA, by all accounts.

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
27/06/2009 02:58

The years 1955-1959 still appear wishy washy to some and to a few a weadle way out in protection of politics and excuse.



I asked my Dad again this afternoon about this time in history. He still retorts that the Turkish Cypriots were treated like the scum of the earth by the lazy Greeks.



Very insecure times, never knowing when or who would get the bullet in the back next.



I would still ask of modern day issue, how so much focus and attention is drawn to the likes of the Orams case ; when mass murder over a four year period drew not one conclusion through the courts.



Would make an interesting book not to say a dramatic movie, this period in Cyprus History.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
27/06/2009 11:44

ilk;



Did I mention any particular grouping?



Call them what you will IRA, PKK, EOKA, ETA, RED BRIGADE, BADER MEINHOF, it doesn`t matter.



Murder is what it says on the label, whoever is doing it and whatever the "cause."



And as for Genocide which seems these days to be particularly prevelant in Africa and Orthodox eastern European countries. Simply indefensible.



To some at any rate.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/06/2009 14:07

Dear Yunus re 27





it is indeed a shame the Greeks AND Turks played games with the Cypriot people... ( nicely stirred up by the British )



I mean left to their own devices we have had ( examples) Greeks removed from Asia minor, and Turks from Crete and Rhodes. We've seen Pograms in Istanbul - and now you would have us believe that Humanitarianism is one sided.. PLE-EASE don't try to re-write history... You could try and "move on" .. drop the blame game, try to trust and hopefully the children of Cyprus will see nothing was a black and white as you try to make it.



YES, I want to see TCs enjoying all the rights of GC within the EU.. so get a RoC passport ( if you haven't already ) - it doesn't mean you have to recognise the govt - and make sure you embarrass the RoC and EU to ensure equality...



A smart move would be to - renouce the 1983 declaration of "independence" - and allow the EU to circumvent the barriers the declaration erected..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/06/2009 14:22

Newscoop



re 28



Who on here supports violence as a means to an end ? I have seen you post supporting the TR "peace movement" which resulted in more Cypriots killed / maimed in two months than at any time in the recent history..of Cyprus



Glad to hear you find Genocide abhorrent- so please tell us how you feel about the elimination of Ethnic Greek speakers from Asia minor in the early part of last century...I think it was just as bad as Turks being forced to leave the islands such as Crete or Rhodes..



Tell us about this "genocide" in Eastern Europe - as I recall the Nazi tried to exterminate Jews, Gypsies and Slavs - they were mainly *killed* in Eastern Europe... Where Nazis Orthodox?



May be you meant the Balkans?.. Lest you forget, Paddy Ashdown told us that the Croats had a discussion ( right in front of him ) with Serbs about how they would carve up Bosnia.. on a napkin.. Were Croats Orthodox?



I really worry about your ability to rationalise.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/06/2009 14:29

Dear CyprusChilli



You COULD ask UK forces personnel who served in Cyprus at the time... you know the same guys who risked death and now live quite happily in Cyprus - many firm friends with GCs.



you could ask them about some of things they saw TC Policeman do to extract info for HM forces.



Then you might reflect about how it might have been if our UK leaders hadn't been so keen to keep Cyprus- when other less important colonies were gaining independence - that it seemed a good idea to allow the minority ethnic group to police the majority at a time of civil disobedience - and simply polarised matters.



YES - it was a Political decision... to dismiss it as irrelevant is plain silly .. it shaped the future relations of GCs and TCs and mutual mistrust.

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
27/06/2009 15:38

Dear 6xm,

I had a brother serving in Cyprus at this time and he tells a very different story to yours. Since you're only 50 you have no personal experience as he had, serving in HM forces (the KRRC).

EOKA were responsible for cowardly murders of British troops trying to keep the peace. Those EOKA members killed doing this are now called "martyrs" in the south and have a monument to their "martyrdom" with a "remembrance" day.

EOKA were a terrorist organisation who committed the worst crimes of torture and killing of both British and Turkish Cypriot civilians. How you can defend them defies belief. I really worry about your ability to recognise truth.

And by the way, ilovekibris, the TMT was formed in direct response to the atrocities of EOKA and ENOSIS. What did you want the TC's to do ? Just lie there and take it ?

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
27/06/2009 16:48

Roll on Geejay.



Troodo.

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
27/06/2009 17:31

dear geejay

thank you so much for your input, im sure mmmmmm is a lovely person but he, he is not one sided but can not step out of the circle and look in. he seems to have missed what went on in the back ground and listens to the politicians or only one side, for their views of any said event.

it is not rude not to know, but not trying to learn ! , this is when disasters happen.

i think trnc has learned, turkey has learned. never again should this political game, which involves humans loosing their lives, here or any where in the world be allowed.

p.s be ready for your very political reply from dear mmmmmm. or maybe now he will take a little more care when writing what he thinks to be fact.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/06/2009 17:36

Dear Gejay



re 35



No-one is saying EOKA didn't murder UK forces personnel - or even GCs who were "collaborators" .. they were a terrorist organisation to the British and doubt, even, to many GCs. I'm not defending them or TMT or the IRA , the UVF......



With all due respect to your brother, are you suggesting my long time neighbour in Limas(s)ol is fibbing...?



re TMT - I wasn't aware ENOSIS was an "atrocity"...



TMT were responsible for bombing and killing innocent folk - even a Turk - to incite hatred within the TC population... it threw out Armenians from North Nicosia in '63 - what did THEY do?



Neither organisation could be proud of some of the acts carried out to achieve their aims..



For how long will you use this as a reason to hold back progress for Cyprus? ..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/06/2009 17:38

Dear Yunus



it is sad you will not / cannot appreciate I see both sides viewpoints and understand respect their respective beefs / fears than you better than you.



Others - with English as a first language have no excuse...

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
27/06/2009 18:01

Sorry to go a little off thread but is Limassol the same as Lima(s)sol what do the ( ) mean ?

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
27/06/2009 18:14

Bejasus Marky what are you on?



Message 28 does not mention any particular bunch of murderers



It also condemns those who commit these crimes regardless of their ethnicity or religion



The Liffey water must be particularly strong where you are



And how about Ronan O`Gara? WHAT WAS HE THINKING OF IN JOBURG THIS AFTERNOON?

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
04/07/2009 03:34

One side or the other.



You may wish to understand it and learn.

Dont slate it or defend it.

History is already written and outcomes are dependant on learning and progress for a future.



Besides when were all gone nature and the landscape will decide.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/07/2009 10:42

re Turtle



msg 40



Wherever I know the TR and GR place name I try to use both.. Limas(s)ol .... minus the second S in the TR way... ;)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/07/2009 10:50

Dear Newscoop,



re msg 41







Sadly I had not been imbibing. !



I suggest you re-read your msg 28/31- perhaps you can address the Q's arising from your posts in those msgs....?

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
04/07/2009 18:15

"We nearly went to war with Turkey.



wont be the first time



sure would like to know if mmmmmmmm would have been one of the brown shirts in uk if he was he had been around in that era methinks he would.

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
04/07/2009 18:21

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackshirts

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
04/07/2009 18:43

Msh 43, thanks I understand now.

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
04/07/2009 23:15

When did the war end.......seems like you lot on here never give it a rest...For god sake,take today for what it is...

No war going on,people living in homes,on land.in half an island...its called the TRNC....you have sunshine and food,and to top all that can spend your pensions...having a good old time....give over,the war is over with,and a long,long,long,time ago...rest up and just wait and see the out come of future talks....as whatever you might think,feel or say.wont make any odds what so ever...



Spider,X Post after post,after postings of the same old.same old..

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
04/07/2009 23:59

Spider ..they have alot more arguing to do yet.The conflict finished in 1974. WW2 finished in 1945 and you still see see that on TVin 2009,so to my reckoning that leaves another 35 years...Go to it peoples..

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
05/07/2009 00:52

Yep good one coachie....its the same old...as always...OMG...look whats going on now with the cruise liner largest in the world.and cant even dock here....has it ever,???? Thank god i had a great day.





Spider,X

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
05/07/2009 06:33

CyprusChill - all being well and one of these days. The mountains and sea will decide.



You and i. Who are we.

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
05/07/2009 06:47

and the recent upgrade of the power generation sets ..



and how to continue positive needs and requirements without intervention.

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
10/07/2009 04:21

Afghanistan.



A reason and hope for the future.





http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2004/oef.casualties/

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
10/07/2009 04:42

All being well the Terrorist Organisation in Afghanistan get removed similar to the Cyprus Eoka.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/07/2009 11:16

Dear Spider



The "WarS" ended in August 74 - there were two short ones.. a Civil war between GCs and then the Turks achieved the impossible by uniting them in minutes ..



The reason it still goes on is because the Turks ethnically cleansed the north of GCs ( apart from enclaves in Karpas(a) ) and behaved worse than the GCs to minorities.



Then they started importing Turks from the mainland - as TCs continued to leave - and announced the GCs who fled had "exchanged" their houses and allowed them to be sold for private gain to folk who then "justify" it as a long time ago..



Thankfully there is the ECHR who have judged that TR is responsible to provide a remedy for the displaced Cypriots.. and allowed Cypriots to be able to move freely about the island.



OK, that's over simplistic - but THAT's ( generally ) how the outside world sees it..



Military might v Legal upperhand might be a way to describe where we are...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/07/2009 11:19

Dear CC, re msg 55



All being well the Terrorist Organisation in Afghanistan get removed similar to the Cyprus Eoka.



I'll remind you that one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter..Ireland ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/07/2009 12:05

Dear Rip



>>greek cypriots encouraged the turkish cypriots to remain in the south and offered them protection<<



As you well know, they DID.. Mr Denktash INSISTED that there be a population swap.. or else.. he sought TAKSIM, remember.. if it had been up to him the island north/south would have been hermetically sealed.. ( thank God for the SBA)



>>Oh you forget to mention your greek cypriot friends importing Pontians by the plane load<<



As you are "New" to the forum I'll excuse your "ignorance".. Do you know the history of the Pontian Greeks and WHY Greece and Cyprus offered them residency.. ? Clue - break up of soviet Union - oppression of minorities .. Helmut Kohl invited plane loads of ethnic Germans "home", too !



As you should know, the numbers involved were at least 10 times less than TURK mainlanders and sadly, a bit like many TCs, the locals wish many Pontians didn't come ...



Nothing "cockeyed" .. just factual - you should try it..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/07/2009 12:19

re 45



I missed this "pearler"..



>>sure would like to know if mmmmmmmm would have been one of the brown shirts in uk if he was he had been around in that era methinks he would.<<



Could you try to stick to factual points? Great to note that some of my "fans" have now had me down as a "pc leftie loonie" and now a fascist ..



When you have got together and "agreed" please let me know which "label" you prefer ;)

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
10/07/2009 17:10

-historian of the cyprus conflict keith kyle notes " there is no doubt that the main victims of the numerous incidents

that took place during the next few months were turks"

"-if turkey comes in to save turkish cypriots, turkey will find no turkish cypriots to save"

the statement of archbishop makarios. august 1964

-in total, 133 greeks and 193 turks are known to have been killed in 1963 and 1964.

-209 turks and 41 greeks reported missing. ( only 1 fifth of the island was turkish )

-30,000 turks lived as refugees from 1963 until 1974

-daily mail august 1974 " the world knows and is well aware of those who commited such crimes yet it chooses to ignore

the truth"

-15 july 1974, the greek military junta of 1967-1974 backed a greek cypriot coup d'etat in cyprus. president makarios was

replaced with nikos sampson ( aka the murderer ) the former eoka fighter.

-rauf denktas " this is like appointing adolf hitler as the president of israel"

continued

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
10/07/2009 17:13

-15 july 1974, mainland greek troops join the greek national guard on the island

-turkey's intervention was necessary to protect it's people, the greek coup failed after 3 days

-turkey used its right to interviene under article 5, 1960 treaty of guarantee.

-greek newspaper, eleftherotipia 26.02.81 quoting nicos sampson "if turkey had not intervened, i would have proclaimed

enosis but i would have annihilated the turks in cyprus as well"

-casualties and losses of 1974;

497 turks killed,788 tc's killed, 1269 wounded, 992 missing.

88 greeks, 353 gc's killed, 1327 wounded, over 1000 missing.



a few facts and figures

please see the link for more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jUNRVMOKCw

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/07/2009 17:53

Oh, Yunus,



Firstl,y I take issue with some of your "statistics" what are the sources for them - for example I have had the please to met a TC lady involved in the project to find the "missing"



The figures are now c. 1000 in TOTAL ... nearly HALF your figure



As for the casualty figures for 74



What is the breakdown of TCs/ GCs killed BEFORE and AFTER the invasion "peace movement" - remember GCs were fighting each other in the coup.



If TR and GR hadn't been sending arms to either side and interfering - letting the UN do its job - as mandated by TR / GR..

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 00:31

you have disapointed me dear mmmmmm, you can do better than that, think about it tonight and post tomorrow, why are you rushing. and look at the people you have chosen to defend. look at what they think...

DavidCarter


Joined: 11/07/2009
Posts: 20

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 07:38

Allow me to introduce myself: I edit the Cyprus section of the "Britain's Small Wars" site on the web.



http://www.britains-smallwars.com



Apart from publishing eye-witness accounts about the 1955-59 Cyprus Emergency, the site lists those who died - British, Greek and Turk. The facts and figures we publish are verified and proven. In the case of the British service deaths, there were more than 375 between 1 April 1955 and 24 December 1959. Of these 104 were killed directly by EOKA.



There's been mention in this debate about two books - The Genocide Files by Harry Scott Gibbons and The Cyprus Conspiracy by Brendan O'Malley and Ian Craig. When reading these volumes, it's worth remembering their publication was made possible by financial subsidies from the administrations of the two sides in the Cyprus divide. In these circumstances, they cannot be considered 'objective'.



Regards to all

David (Carter)

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 08:14

David Carter the one and same Mathew Clarke?



Richard

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 11:27

David

Welcome to the Cyprus44 board.

I hope you will be able to add to the political debates and in doing so helping some of those that need treatment with their 'tunnel vision'.

AJ

gottheyips


Joined: 28/12/2007
Posts: 444

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 12:22

Dear mmmmmm



ref message 57,



I'll remind you that one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.. Ireland ?



That statement you have quoted is widely used when people are discussing political,geographical,religious and ethnical divisions.

It is in my opinion too casual a statement considering the enormity and seriousness that death and injury is brought to bear on innocent babies, the old, men, women and children.

I am from Northern Ireland and have very strong opinions with reference to our divided island, but I would not under any circumstances allow myself to be drawn into a situation were anything goes for the cause.



For those that have SHAME ON YOU , whether it is EOKA, IRA, TMT, UVF, these are murdering minority individuals that have carried out atrocities , WELL NOT IN MY NAME !!!



Well I got that of my chest, time to chill game of golf a pint of EFES. even a KEO, Guiness, Saki, Bourbon, whatever LIVE AND LET LIVE .

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 12:53

Lostgeezer/Pike. I see you are logged on now.



4th attempt to ask you to answer the question below. Yo seem to always be shoving figures down peoples throats, so have the backbone to answer the simple question.



Lostgeezer, IF a real peace settlement ever came to the table.....What percentage of a Shared Cypriot government would the TC's been entitled Too ? In your opinion? await your figure.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 13:02

I see your sister in hate cypwhinge is also looking in.......Will put he same question to her!







Cypwine, IF a real peace settlement ever came to the table.....What percentage of a Shared Cypriot government would the TC's been entitled Too ? In your opinion? await your figure.

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 17:31

dear david



re msg 66



good comments, totally agree with what you have said. the main problem i'm having with dear mmmmmm is that he makes you believe he was there at the time, he is not unbiast, he says he is or maybe even thinks he is ! i have no need to express my personal views of this matter on this forum as i have my own truths but everywhere i look is dear mmmmmm. dear mmmmmm keeps going on about his one sided views just like a machine. he has the right to his opinion and he has the right to voice his opinion. if you keep repeating something over and over and over, people who do not know any better soon start to believe what you are saying.

e.g T-mobile wireless say "thanks for making us number one" adverts everywhere, on buses, t.v, underground e.t.c. bought their wireless router (didn't think to check), didn't even work in my area in london!

i am polite enough to listen to and respect your views what ever they are but every day, constantly, this is a different matter.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 18:33

It is very interesting to read the differing views and debate pertaining to the past historical events and attrocities that clearly took place in the past.



The current de-facto situation is very different and my view is that the current and forthcomming period is pivitol to the Islands future.



It is cklear that the two regions of the Island are very deifferent and diverged increasingly in the past decade.

The Greek influence upon the south has diminished whilsy the Turkish influence upon the North remains strong and omnipresent.

The Military strength upon the Island is clearly Turkish and their clear strength has for many years maintained the peace. The British presence is mearly self supporting and more interested in issues further East. The UN have little influencial role with only token presence.



What does the future hold?

I see no terrorist organisation emerging as the Island bathes in peace. I see no military conflict because generally there is a stale mate situation..

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 18:41

cont..... regarding terretorial issues.



The route that is clearly emerging is the political solution. Of course ther is some civil litigation pedantics and money will change hands in lieu of compensation etc.



The real issue that will emerge and indeed provide true solution is the formation of two recognised and culturally independant regions devoid of hostility and back bitting memories of what has past.



The future and prosperity of the Island will soon be decided. The Island remains in a state of peace. The opportunity exhists to maintain this peace and to secure prosperity for all its inhabitants.



The political forces and the international community must grap this opportunity with both hands and drive negotiations forward.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 19:03

Waz, what very sensible post and one that should be understood by all



The two sides have created and developed their own identity and cultures and yes they are totally different in their daily lives and outlooks



Yes the land is an issue but sort this out and let the two sides live in peace as two seperate states

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 03:30

Prior history then 1955-59, 1974 and today for the future.



Resilient afrontage to the middle east corridor.

Cyprus ideal island standing and the borders that interest Turkey and the western world .



Although it would like to -

The EU cannot afford at this present time to defend and assist Turkey's borders.

Recognition that Turkey is very much an assist in its own right is known nd respected.

Iran remains in the middle, Afghanistan a challenge with Pakistan assistance, with potential links towards China.



The rear corridor remains healthy Egypt, now Libya and Algeria.



Free trade routes without too many hard pressess and assurances are still in 'my view', being hard fought for.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 08:02

Cyprus chill



Free trade routes are being hard fought for. I would agree that this is a secondary aspiration. However this fight is proving very unsussesful for the TRNC.



Turkey is indeed the gateway to the East. Northern African alliances make way to that continent.

Turkish influence and geopolitical position has become very important indeed in recent years.

Turkey definately calls the military shots on Cyprus.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
16/08/2009 15:38

re 69



I TOO am from N.I. and the term "one mans's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" applies TOTALLY..



There are guys in govt. that had very close - if not direct influence on violent methods to try to achieve their aims..



I'm sure - like me - you had to think VERY hard about whether to think the unthinkable and wipe the slate clean...

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
16/08/2009 22:09

6m....You see 'both sides' of the argument - don't make me laugh! People ought to read your posts on other sites where you have to be less circumspect about what you 'really think' of the TRNC, the TC and of course the British and other foreigners who have bought here!



Try this one: http://www.realrussia.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=2074&start=1



You do not see both sides of any argument you are simply two faced about what you really think!



As I have said in other posts your main purpose on C44 is 3 fold:



1. To show off how much you know (or believe you know - because much of what you claim as 'fact' is nothing more than your tainted opinion dressed as 'fact')



2. To belittle others as this gives you a feeling of 'superiority' (who cares)



3. And to support the GC cause to their property rights - without due balance in the mistaken belief that the history of the GC / TC dispute stems from 1974



You wouldn't know balance if it hit you between the eyes!

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
16/08/2009 22:20

Moover321, I too have the same opinion as yourself, just reading MMMMMMMMMMMMMMs threads they are very patronising to say the least.

Sitting on the fence with a slight twist to it I think, best to not read his posts any more, as I for one find them like reading about a snake that slithers here, and then there. Sorry mmmmmmmmmmmm but saw through you right from the start.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 00:14

Ohohouuuoo,I can see another heated discussion starting again!!!!!

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 01:13

The picture attached to his posts(m) is a bit clearer better definition .

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 22:49

Has anyone one read Martin Packards book anyone got any views ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 11:33

re msg 79



Moover321



I have revisited this link you posted from the realrussia site and can't see ANYTHING remotely to back up your contentions... and note that when asked for specifics in other threads you "disappear" off the thread in question..



Your "fixation" with my bias is very flattering;)



re msg 80 dizzycows



>>Sitting on the fence with a slight twist to it I think, best to not read his posts any more, as I for one find them like reading about a snake that slithers here, and then there. Sorry mmmmmmmmmmmm but saw through you right from the start. <<



Oh YES, you have me "sussed"..........



re 82 Wanderer - if you are after the clearest version of the photo...;)



http://www.flickr.com/photos/veta_mark/2576934299/in/set-72157601443289783/



re 81



Yorgozlu



>>Ohohouuuoo,I can see another heated discussion starting again!!!!! ;) <<



Sorry, I don't think one can debate with closed minds.. on "silly" subjective opinions... How back to the subject of th

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 12:08

re 86



"better : Sorry, I don't think one can debate with closed minds.. on "silly" subjective opinions... Now back to the subject of the thread, please ...?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 15:19

I am always ready mmmmmmm

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 19:02

6m....can always guarantee that you have to get the 'last word'! The important thing is that indirectly you do admit that much of your diatribe is exactlt that - subjective, self-opinionated and as dizzy has said not worth the read!



I am glad you feel flattered that I am 'fixated' on your bias - the truth is rather quite simple - we cannot allow someone with your bias to go unchallenged and since you claim your thread on realrussia is not contentious why not state what you have written there here?



I think most people barring a couple of your cohorts have seen through your 'balanced' approach!



As I have said you wouldn't know balance if it hit you between the eyes! You are too anal rententive to know when you are making a fool of yourself - but be that as it may - when you finally manage to get your head out from that part of your anatomy perhaps, just perhaps you will admit that others are as entitled to express their views as much as you are without your bellitting them!

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 19:29

Of course a leaopard does not change its spots! So I will continue to challenge you, as is my right, on your so called 'facts' when it is nothing but your pro-GC dogma shrouded in twisted language portraying to be balanced!



Oh! and as for closed minds you should try taking a hard look in the mirror! You are the epitome (to use a greek word) of what is not only a closed mind but one devoid of any sense of justice!



Now that is my opinion and as for not being 'on message with respect to the thread' - do you believe you always follow the 'rules' you wish to impose on others? I doubt if you could even begin to comprehend that!



Good luck...hope the mirror doesn't crack..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 22:13

re 89/90



Nice "speech", but not one thing to back up any of your contentions..



1/ I asked YOU to find something "biased" in my post on RealRussia and .....zip..



2/ WHERE do I say most of my posts are "subjective".. I DID say often as Devil's Advocate..



3/ The only reason I'll be "cracking any mirrors" would be if my head swells to much ..thanks AGAIN, for all the attention .. ;)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 22:45

re 91 >>would be if my head swells toO much<<

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 10:04

So dear mmmmmm

When one does not like another's opinions(prehaps "facts")...they become "silly"subjective opinions...or do they??????.......



Shows how "open minded"you are..



not that you'd qualify for any discussions/debating on Cyprus issues...



face the facts.....they are greeks....we are turks...they are there...we are here....end of...if you know what I mean!?



Hope you have a nice day in your native country.

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 11:31

Well said Moover321. I couldn't have put your response to 6xm any better myself.



Like the Greek Cypriots, 6xm is in denial regarding the causes of the present Cyprus situation !. Although in their case they are at least showing a willingness to adjust their views in the school text books.



Incidentally I for one hold it against any so called freedom fighter organisation that cowardly killed British citizens, service personnel or civilians. The IRA, EOKA, EOKA B, TMT, Mau Mau, Taliban etc. They are all terrorists who employed terror tactics. Its easy to tell the difference. Terrorists hide amongst non-combatants and deliberately kill innocent civilians.



re 38, 6xm's, I don't know about your neighbour or how truthful he may be, but I certainly believe my brother over him !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 11:47

Dear Yorgozlu,



re msg 93 re "Subjectivity" - I was referring to Moover321's unfounded and as yet without one specific example "accusation"..





If you, or anyone else wishes to join in - all I ask is for you to provide SPECIFIC examples to debate..



Simply stating I'm not qualified to debate - based on my origins / present location (?) ..is that some sort of "disqualification" ? ;)



re 94 Geejay



>>Like the Greek Cypriots, 6xm is in denial regarding the causes of the present Cyprus situation !<<



SPECIFIC example to "prove" your "case".. ?? You'll be looking a long time..



>>Incidentally I for one hold it against any so called freedom fighter organisation that cowardly killed British citizens, service personnel or civilians.<<

That was an argument used by Loyalists in Northern Ireland for a long time..and one ANYONE can understand, but it is NOT seeing things from both sides.. it won't move things forward.I'm sure your Brother and my neighbour are both telling the t

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 11:48

cont from 95



I'm sure your Brother and my neighbour are both telling the truth... can you see that? Can you accept that atrocities were committed by all "parties"?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 13:03

Dear mmmmmm

re msg 95

I am fully aware,whom you were refering to...



my comments to you were "general"...



"specific examples"....... not needed.....my own experiences enough as facts...



"debating them".....I dont think so...."with someone that was there to see it??".......errrrrrr,possible!



"based on your origins!!"...you dont qualify..(let alone being "disqualified")









Little example;

when your child is noughty to another(not yours),and you know your child needs punishing!!!!!



You punish your child at home.(fact/opinion.....you decide)





As for third party.....................eeeerrrrrrrmmmmmmm.................????





have a good day at home.Where? that is none of my concern!(and thats a fact)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 15:41

Dear Yorgozlu



re msg 97



Well then .. where to start .. >>specific examples not necessary<< KOP OUT ..



Debating the FUTURE .. I DO have an "interest".. ..and WILL return ;)



Debating the PAST ... I have lived there - during relative "peace" brought about by a surreal OTT military presence and ethnic cleansings .. I was around during the "This Country is Ours " protests, the opening of the crossing points, the Annan fiasco.. , the "rump" RoC joining the EU.



Funny thing is, Yorgozlu.. the more some people "protest" about "bias" the more I question THEIR ability to want to see a permanent settlement - I wonder, if they are "all right jack"... and that any change in the current, surreal status quo might be what they wish to avoid...

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 16:18

35 years of peace.



what are you still going on about mmmmmm ? everybody agrees with you. you're absolutely right.



i'm now going swimming



yorgozlu don't waste this lovely day talking to a brick wall, he knows the facts better than you and i . he's only doing his job

a lovely blue sky, mountain and sea views, no pollution, chilled out people, a nice day indeed

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 17:40

Dear Yunus



>>he's only doing his job<<



When I "work" .. I get paid... Are you SO "desperate" you would have readers believe I earn money from posting here ?!...



You can do better - I hope you enjoy your swim... THAT does make me envious.. ;)

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 18:20

yes lost geeza i've read it. politicians are the scum of the earth. i've said this from the begining.



but this is not an excuse for women, children or unarmed villagers to be shot in the streets, in front of their homes or in bath tubs. obviously, smart and honorable people would have refrained from such actions. they did not refrain hence the suffering.

why now do the t.c's still shut up about all the losses of their loved ones and the long term infringments to their human rights which still continue to the present date.



why is all the noise about some greedy g.c who wants his land back after all these years. is it a cover up ?



im just a pool cleaner, what do i know. ask mmmmmm , he knows all the facts. also ask him about honourable people. ask him about greek cypriot women and children who were shot dead during the troubles.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 20:28

Dear Yunus



re msg 102



>>im just a pool cleaner, what do i know. ask mmmmmm , he knows all the facts.<< I seem to remember apologising for this remark - even though "provoked" - ironically - as being referred to a "thick as a plank" by you..



Is this typical Cypriot behaviour.. harbouring a "grudge"..? :P



IF you had read about Packard, why then do you gloss over the FACt that the US/ UK stirred things up between Cypriots for their own ends ? Are you "HAPPY" to continue to continue to be "duped".. to "conform" ? !



The "Babes in the Bathtub incident" - interesting you should bring that up.. I, for one, would like to see this case examined by a Truth and Reconciliation committee - ask Sener Levent - Afika 28/2/07 Points of View - page one..



If you are going to bring up those terrible atrocities - lets be certain.. BOTH sides committed them and BOTH sides even killed their "own" to foster hatred..

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 23:13

Come on mods its about time this Losthoagygeezer was sent on holiday .....again

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 01:50

dear mmmmmm



may be you could apply to the Truth and Reconciliation committee on behalf of yourself and sener levent . give the committee your email address as so they can forward you the results. not that you'll believe the results !

ask them to also check the bodies of the victims the gc's say are of fellow gc's killed by the tc's. the findings may surprise you and lost geeza. also ask sener levent and the others at the afrika paper,- who would have saved them from extinction if turkey had not interviened ? a disgrace to their families is an understatement.



even better if you have any contacts at afrika we can all get together for a chat. i've tried and been ignored a few times.





lost geeza



have you only just realised... LET'S BE CERTAIN OF ONE THING, PLEASE, MMMMMM IS ALWAYS RIGHT.

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 08:17

6m...Honestly! You are more mentally retarded then even I had thought! You cannot even read what I have written so what hope is there that you may actually answer it? Good luck with your swelling head - I guess when it is filled with waste products it is bound to swell and not from any attention from me and others here - but simply because that is what happens to waste products in the heat of Cyprus!



You really think you have the monopoly on the so called 'facts' when you espouse nothing but opinion and conjecture dressed up as facts! Unlike you, most of the other readers and contributors here can read what you have written - and make up their own minds as to whether you quote fact or opinion - and as you cannot distinguish the difference between fact and opinion - it is impossible to be 'the devil's advocate - isn't it?



Go on...don't hold back...admit it to yourself - you are a "Mr Know it All who actually knows sweet FA"



Good luck with the mirror!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 11:46

Hi Yunus

re 108



Once again I see nothing of SUBSTANCE to counter the doubts raised by a TC journo - casting doubt on this TERRIBLE atrocity...

Aren't you behaving the way YOU might expect a GC to react to Tony Angastiniotis' "Voice of Blood"? ... viz.. denial... questioning the cred of the person who just MIGHT have a point ?... Funny thing is I haven't found other folk complain that Mr Levent was hard to make contact with.. do you need my help ?...



I am quite aware of the work done by Cypriots of both Ethnicities to find out the truth about remains that are found.. Sadly, they will confirm that neither "side" can hold their heads high.. You might like to see if you can talk with them ?!



>>LET'S BE CERTAIN OF ONE THING, PLEASE, MMMMMM IS ALWAYS RIGHT<< .. So please show me that I'm wrong here..



re Moover321re 109



If you dispute something I say, you've now had plenty of time to come back to me with something other than "knocking" me ;)

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 12:52

dear mmmmmm



"Once again I see nothing of SUBSTANCE to counter the doubts raised"



things never change do they the same old lines which mean nothing mmmmmm



i only wish to communicate with the afrika paper to find out where they get their facts from dear mmmmmm. i would be up for a simple chat. Tony Angastiniotis' needs to fear for his safety and future.

do you see the difference mmmmmm ? i don't think so.



a very shallow tactic dear mmmmmm, may be you've been on the dark side a little too long

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 13:54

6m! You are wrong when you call your opinion(s) as fact(s).



You are wrong that the people who have bought here are 'buggers'.



You are wrong in assuming that only the South of Cyprus is 'Cyprus Proper'



You are wrong in chosing 1974 as your start date for dealing with the legalities of the property issue



You are wrong about how the ECHR operates



You are wrong abbout so many things there wouldn't be enough space here to write them all - let alone get your self-praising replies - I guess you don't do modesty down there in Limassol -



So as I have said, you are here for 3 reasons:



1. To show off how much you know (or believe you know)



2. To belittle others as this gives you a feeling of 'superiority' (who cares)



3. And to support the GC cause to their property rights - without due balance in the mistaken belief that the history of the GC / TC dispute stems from 1974.



So why don't you just stay in the 'proper Cyprus' and let the TRNC be! You can't - can you

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 13:54

Dear Yunus,



re msg 111



they might be the same "old line", and it is a shame I have to repeat them.. :(



>>i only wish to communicate with the afrika paper to find out where they get their facts from dear mmmmmm. i would be up for a simple chat. Tony Angastiniotis' needs to fear for his safety and future. <<



I suggest you read, this then..



http://tinyurl.com/nvvq4w



As you must WELL know, Mr Levent has had BIG problems with the "authorities" and had his former publication closed down and he was imprisoned...



Ooops, Yunus ...



I hope you will join with me and condemn anyone who seeks to silence any TC / GC who questions the commonly held version of recent "history"..

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 13:59

6m! You are wrong when you call your opinion(s) as fact(s).

You are wrong that the people who have bought here are 'buggers'.

You are wrong in assuming that only the South of Cyprus is 'Cyprus Proper'

You are wrong in chosing 1974 as your start date for dealing with the legalities of the property issue

You are wrong about how the ECHR operates

You are wrong abbout so many things there wouldn't be enough space here to write them all - let alone get your self-praising replies - I guess you don't do modesty down there in Limassol -



So as I have said, you are here for 3 reasons:



1. To show off how much you know (or believe you know)



2. To belittle others as this gives you a feeling of 'superiority' (who cares)



3. And to support the GC cause to their property rights - without due balance in the mistaken belief that the history of the GC / TC dispute stems from 1974.



So why don't you just stay in the 'proper Cyprus' and let the TRNC be! You can't - can you?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 14:16

Dear Moover321



re 114



As I suggested, I see you have spent more time reading up on me, than finding sunstantiated counters to my posts..



Could I suggest you post all the links to the threads where you claim I refers to "buggers", " Cyprus proper". .. It's just that I have a feeling that you have been overly selective in not posting the whole context ;)



This will be the third time I have responded that I believe property dispute issues should go back to 1963 - so WHY do you persist in repeating a "fib"..?



IF I am wrong about how the ECHR operates, can you explain WHAT I said that was wrong?



I'm on here because there are two sides to most historical "facts" and I GENUINELY wish to see a resolution to the CY problem.



Could you make a first and back up some of your suggestions? ;)

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 14:36

"resolution...?""freedom......?".""peace....?"





We have had all 3 since 1974. thank you very much







and long it may stay like that

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 15:22

Dear Yorgozlu re msg 166



Your "we" is not representative of most Cypriot - let alone HR norms..



You must be aware that even TR knows ( and has known-even if it took ECHR rulings - some brought by TCs ) that the current situation is untenable.

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 17:28

dear mmmmmm



you have never had any problems in voicing your opinion have you ?



again " would mr levent have been around today if turkey had not interviened ?"



i'm sure Tony Angastiniotis' explained that he would not have, to mr levent during the interview at the Afrika Newspaper



sampson definitely did not recon mr levent would have been around today



mr levent's main problem is that the tr are still here, and he has the right to his opinion.



he trusts that the tc's and gc's can put it all behind them. i respect his views but do not agree with them



kind regards

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 17:56

6m! You must be the only person who can twist in the wind and insist that you have not moved! I gave the link to the realrussia site and said people should read for themselves. You insist I should quote - and when I do - I have taken it out of context! I even suggested that you write exactly what you have written there here...but somehow you just manage to miss what others have said for the convenience of your argument!



You would give hypocrites a good name!



Quite frankly for someone who 'claims' to have the facts - you seem bent on using your so called 'facts' to fit your version of the 'truth'! As for there being two sides to the argument I believe if you really understood the Cyprus problem you would know that there are several sides to the argument!



As for 1974 - you can read your own posts! When challenged you resort to 1963, but the bulk of your arguments stem from 1974! You cannot even be consistent in your own mind let alone here! Pray tell me why 1963 and not 1955...

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 18:07

Cont'd..



Tell me how can a TC living in the TRNC access ECHR? Since you have all the information - no doubt you will try and google it....just explain to me how? I am sure you will find that Jutice is a two edged sword and that despite all your protestations of access to ECHR - the logistics means that the TC will always be denied justice de facto! So the GC has the 'law' on his or her side - but often you will find resorting to the law to solve a political problem is at best futile! The TRNC may not be recognised by any state outside of Turkey and yet it has existed for the last 35+ years. You ignore the facts on the ground! - there are 260,000+ TC who do not want to be 'ruled' by the GC majority and 40,000 Turkish troops which confirms that fact!



Please don't faltter yourself in believing I was 'readin g up on you'! I merely came across your post by accident - and as you are so proud to boast on all the forums your post stand out like a sore thumb! Not much reading up on you!

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 18:15

Cont'd...



Finally, I have no doubt you believe what you say that you want to see a solution to the Cyprus problem - however, just harping on the GC side for 80% of your posts doesn't exactly engender any belief that you have a balance or fair perspective of the facts!



What you have, and are of course entitled to, is an OPINION, just like me and many others on all sides of the debate! Your opinion does NOT entitle you to belittle people or ram down people's throat your version of history!



What you should refrain from doing is thinking you have a monopoly on the facts and that you are always right! Quite patently, opinions by definition can neither be right nor wrong - just opinions! However, when you dress up your opinion as fact - that in my opinion is WRONG! Period!



If you truly want a solution you would not label those who have bought in the TRNC as "buggers" nor distinguish GC as 'Proper' Cyprus! The last time I looked at the atlas there was just ONE Cyprus!



Enjoy

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 19:48

Hi Yunus,



re msg 118 - Mr Levent.. I can't speak for him as to whether he'd still be around if TR hadn't come - you'll have to ask him - but I can remind you that he has serious doubts about some atrocities and their true culprits.. YOU glossed over THAT one.. having brought it up !



>>he trusts that the tc's and gc's can put it all behind them. i respect his views but do not agree with them <<



I'm with him on the former and hope one day you'll see all isn't black and white re blame..



Regards to you, too

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 19:55

Moover321, re msg 119 -



1/ Real Russia link - I asked you to explain where there was anything contentious / biased - and you didn't revert - so I'm reminding you..



2/ >>I believe if you really understood the Cyprus problem you would know that there are several sides to the argument! << ) funny, that I'm sure I've used almost the same expression word for word... but which one of us means it .. ?



3/ Why '63 not 55? - because the Brits stopped ruling in '60 and the TCs had a say in govt ( 60-63) and had accepted the "rule"of govt ministries up until that point ..



4/ A TC or a Turkish citizen can use the ECHR if local remedies are exhausted.. Dr An did this to get TR to open the gates in April 2003 and as you'll know TCs can take the RoC to task, too. May I ask what GCs could do about their properties until the ECHR stepped in ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 20:06

cont



5/ >>260,000+ TC who do not want to be 'ruled' by the GC, and 40K troops ..<< Well aware TCs wanted *autonomy* - ( and why not) voting for it - "trusting" GCs and the EU in Apr - oh and ther'd have been only 950 TR troops..



6/ I'm not difficult to "trace" .. I don't hide my profile/ email or photo blog links - and often post links in threads - so I know you're no "Sherlock"..



7/ >>harping on about GC side 80 % of the time << Correct me if I'm wrong but seems to me that this thread is asking us to remember GC atrocities ..



8/ My "version" of history.. you mean one that questions the role of all players in Cyprus?!



9/ "Opinions" - yes.. but even most of my detractors know I back 'em up and rarely resort to pettiness ( even if provoked - sorry AGAIN, Yunus!)



10/ >>.. you would not label those who have bought in the TRNC as "buggers...<<



like I asked - Please post the link to that so as readers can judge .. in CONTEXT.. !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 20:29

btw - There are probably max 100K REAL TCs living in the 2north" so who are the rest ?!



Don't take my word for it .. my sources are TCs..

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 04:04

I have met people from Pyla and Yenierenkoy.

Pure gorgeous people.

Full of eyes ears sense and mindful consideration.

Greek and Turkish sensibility about an awesome island.



People who chose to protect each other and still advocate peace.



In the harmony of such a great island, Cyprus.

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 04:10

why don't mr sener and the rest of the journalists at afrika make a documentary just like Tony Angastiniotis' dear mmmmmm.



this way everybody can learn the truth about what the greek cyp's suffered.



maybe everybody is worried that many more g.c hidden truths will come to surface.



why do i bother him hoagy i really do not know.



he does need help though

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 06:42

6m! Like I said:



1. The realrussia thread has been posted here before you belatedly asked - you are obviously to anal retentive to have noticed it!



2. Access to the ECHR for property issues required the TC to have exhausted local remedies - as this means going through the courts on the GC side - not easily accessible to TC and the logistics are not easy! GC on the otherhand have ready access and can get GC courts to rule in accordance with their 'political' desire and not legal imperative! The issue of the Green Line is governed by the Green Line Regulation Protocol 10, which GC signed in 2003. I did not say that the TC had no access to the ECHR - I said the logistics of 'exhausting local remedies' was effectively a denial of justice!



3. You live in a surreal world! read your post - you say there are 'two sides to the Cyprus problem'! Funny how you like to take credit for something you never said!



4. Exactly, 1963, 1974.... all arbitrary line and dates! Got it yet?



Cont

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 06:53

Cont'd



5. There are only a maximum of 100K real TC living in the TRNC! What is your TC source for this so called 'fact'? Sounds like a local kebab shop in Limassol and the 'sauce' was tomato - spread all over your arguments? Do me a favour if you really believe there are only 100K REAL TC in the north 1. Give me your source; 2. Define a REAL TC; 3. Do try and read the UN stats - you might be enlightened - ooopppsss I forgot - you are never wrong...ha...ha



6. Lte's face it you really think a lot of yourself - first you accuse me of 'researching you' and then you claim that you are easy to find? Which is it? Or is this your normal state that you can't or don't remember what you have said from post to post?



7. Yes, this thread is about GC attrocoties but you often use any argument to promote GC propaganda and someone should point that out! It goes to character - May you will understand that - but then again may be not - your ego will be in the way!



Cont'd

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 07:01

Cont'd..



8. Your version of history....is not balanced or accurate let alone history! It is simply your opinion dressed in what you describe as facts! It is seen largely through the eyes of the GC side of the argument and anyone who has read your post here will know that to be true - even if you are in self denial!



9. You like to belittle others when they find flaws in your presentation and substance - if drawing attention to your bias and anti TC stance is petty - well, then I am happy to be petty!



10. Opinions - well, finally you admit that your postings are just what I have described - opinions! Nothing more and nothing less! By definition opinions cannot be right or wrong yet in thread after thread that is exactly what you say of other people's opinions!



So one rule for you and another for the rest! My, oh my, you really are full of yourself - aren't you!



The day you stop belittling others and see the flaws in your own posts - hell is likely to freeze over!

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 07:17

Cont'd..



11. Only 950 Turkish soldiers on the island? Really - did you go around and count them yourself? According to official figues and those quoted by Timesonline et al - there are about 35,000 Turkish soldiers! So much for your facts!



Finally I would guess that being a GC propagandist - your defintion of a REAL TC is what? Someone who was alive in 1974 and born on the island? So anyone acquiring citizenship is excluded? The population of the TRNC is 265,000 - most of whom are TC - period!



This is NOT a numbers game - it is a political game! The more false information you provide from your TC Sources (sauces ) the bigger a fool you become!



Debate yes, propaganda no!



Enjoy

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 07:22

I stand by contention that your purpose here is 3 fold:



1. To show off how much you know (or believe you know)



2. To belittle others as this gives you a feeling of 'superiority' (who cares)



3. And to support the GC cause to their property rights - without due balance in the mistaken belief that the history of the GC / TC dispute stems from 1974 and now changed to 1963!



Touching a raw nerve? I bet...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 11:58

Dear Yunus re 129 Good morning !



>>why don't mr sener and the rest of the journalists at afrika make a documentary just like Tony Angastiniotis' dear mmmmmm. this way everybody can learn the truth about what the greek cyp's suffered. <<



When you make contact with him [Mr Levent] - you didn't get back to me about contacting him, btw - You might ask him to tell you more about how TCs could have been living under a misapprehension about some atrocities attributed to GCs or you could ask around yourself ?! As you know most TC / TC folk who come fwd to speak of their regrets/ doubts are not received well, either.



Yes, it would be good for all the hidden facts to emerge... all the guilty parties.. and not just Cypriot ones.. Normally, this happens when a period of real peace.. not one backed by military might comes about..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 12:12

Dear Moover321,



No "raw nerves" touched - STILL not reading previous responses..



1/ RR thread - and I asked you to point out by quoting in context - how the things I posted where "offensive".. I know WHY who can't won't tell us.. so do you..



2/ ECHR route for Cypriots:

a) until Loizidou what were the options for GCs ?!!

b) a TC could appear to the RoC Guardian / Trustee of TC properties - albeit - having to over come a ridiculous "residency" criteria - which you may note a UK based TC managed to "get around"..



So - how many GCs have been able to retake possession of their properties in the 2north" that were occupied?



How many TCs have done the same?



For sure neither path is EASY - but one has existed without third-party intervention and prior to a *TC* taking TR to the ECHR - and winning in March 2003 - they would have had problems crossing over ANY WAY !! ....

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 12:43

Re 5/ "Real" TCs



Those born of parentage entitled to Cypriot citizenship - Annan allowed for 40K Turkish settlers to remain. My data has been posted on here. previously - was complied by TCs living in the north and questioned the "official" data supplied by "TRNC" and not one poster responded to query it.. *I* don't think that was because of disinterest..



Right now I don't have time to search back, but here's an example.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/3309899.stm



GC propaganda.. ?! Where Have I posted any "propaganda"? ..



If I have posted anything you dispute why don't you counter it.. you are almost unique in this thread in attacking ME, personally, but have posted NOTHING to add to any debate !



re msg 133



950 TR Troops - DURH - that was the proposal for the max. number of TR troops to remain in Annan V .. see what I mean about not paying attention?!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 12:49

cont



Property Rights



I support ALL Cypriots rights to be able to live/ work where they like in Cyprus - EVENTUALLY - if that is what TCs want .. for now I think the GCs should accept regional autonomy for TCs - and abrogations to their rights to be able to move freely within the EU.



Right now it IS possible for a TC to move back to the "rump" RoC.. not as easy as it should be - but nigh on IMPOSSIBLE for a GC to do the same - and that only came about through TR being taken to Court..



I suppose THAT is "propaganda", too ?!!



So, to repeat - no "raw nerves", touched.. I'm just waiting for you to give up on the *attempt* to "discredit" and to try to offer SALIENT points to debate...

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 16:04

re msg 31

" You might ask him to tell you more about how TCs could have been living under a misapprehension about some atrocities attributed to GCs or you could ask around yourself ?! As you know"



-stop- as i know what? good psychology but this is all you have



"surely you must know that" no i don't







the afrika paper doesn't want to respond to me.

i do not know about tc's who speak of regrets. what do you mean ? can i meet one ?

dear mmmmmm, after all this time on this site, can you point to one tc that has ever agreed with what you say



you said: Yes, it would be good for all the hidden facts to emerge... all the guilty parties.. and not just Cypriot ones.. Normally, this happens when a period of real peace.. not one backed by military might comes about



yes it would be great for you to see the light, real peace happens with people who actually exist dear mmmmmm. thanks to turkey we exist and we have real peace.



facts against lies. try harder, much harder.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 16:26

re msg 136 Yunus



Thanks for your response.. it IS a shame that you wish to discuss and complain you can't make contact with Sener Levent - yet dismiss his opinions/ research out of hand - in spite of the fact I have demonstrated that he is a TC who speaks out against the "turkification" of the island, questions the handing out of "citizenship" to Turks, the perpetrators of some atrocities and acts by the TR military..



So - I see you DO behave like a GC who wishes to dismiss Tony Angastiniotis...



If "Afrika" don't respond to you, why don't you take up an offer of someone who can help ?!



>>i do not know about tc's who speak of regrets. what do you mean ? can i meet one ?<<



I'm sure if you pm me I can put you in contact with a collection of GCs and TCs - with a WIDE range of opinions - some of whom would speak of regret - and even tell you they only recognise the RoC as their govt !!! :o



(cont)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 16:36

cont



>>after all this time on this site, can you point to one tc that has ever agreed with what you say<<



On which point? Please be specific? I'm not sure of the relevance of the Q - as I know I'm in a minority here and "tolerated" - just .. I'm not to bothered about that..;)



REAL peace is when the island isn't top heavy with Military hardware and man-power .. which should have gone by now, and WOULD have gone by now- if only the GCs had had a wiser leader.



As you know, the majority of those voting in the "north" voted to "trust" and end their isolation - I know it will be hard to convince TCs to "trust" again .. but I remain optimistic.



Your "status quo" is untenable..



Please be specific as to a FACT of mine that is a fib.. I'm happy to wait until after the findings of a Truth / Reconciliation Board...

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 16:40

my email is yasin0606@hotmail.co.uk



awaiting the names of any tc's you can put my way.



again you have pointed out that the afrika papers problem is with the tr still being on the island.

thank you mmmmmm



Tony Angastiniotis' problem is with the murder of innocent people including children and babies.



kind regards

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 16:52

Dear Yunus



I will pm you shortly - will you acknowledge on the board that there are TCs who :



1/ recognise the RoC



2/ object to the numbers of Turks settling and feel outnumbered



3/ Afrika.. NO.. I pointed out -for the THIRD time - that Mr Levent believes that certain atrocities were committed by Turks / TCs to exacerbate ill-feeling.



>>Tony Angastiniotis' problem is with the murder of innocent people including children and babies.

<< as is Mr Levent's if you only care you acknowledge what is has written.



"Funny" how you agree with the GC but not a TC..

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 17:06

6m! You are absolutely right about being wrong! Who is now getting off the 'thread'? LOL:D



I do not attack you personally as I do not know you!



I only know what you write.



I also sense that anyone, and I mean anyone who stops you in your tracks is then hounded by misquotes or out of context statements!



Just accept it - your perspective is deeply coloured by your bias towards the GC - at least then we can start from a point of honesty!



All this 'I am a devil's advocate' etc., is pure howash and you know it!



If you are so keen to disprove my impression of your posts take a hard copy of this thread and thenre-read what I have said and what you have said - maybe, just maybe you might see yourself as others do!



I will not be holding my breadth!



You are self-centred, pro-GC and claim to have the trade "mark" of being always right! Sad when someone points out to you that all you have is a lot of opinions dressed up as facts!



Need I say more?

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 17:11

give me proof m



why does levent not show proof to his findings.



you said



1/ recognise the RoC







2/ object to the numbers of Turks settling and feel outnumbered







3/ Afrika.. NO.. I pointed out -for the THIRD time - that Mr Levent believes that certain atrocities were committed by Turks / TCs to exacerbate ill-feeling.





what about the tc's who



1 - say they were not about to be wiped out



2- they were not left without food, water and medication for over 10 years



3- they were not being shot on the streets and in their houses



4- sampson was not going to ethnicly clens the island



5- everything would have been fine if turkey had not intervened



6- do i need to continue



your remarks and the afrika papers remarks are only about tr still being on the island dear mmmmmm



Tony Angastiniotis is an honourable man. do not cut him short and compare his work to the tr hating afrika paper



try harder, much much much harder

BigBen


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 150

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 17:12

ilovekibris

I agree with you The EOKA was/is a terrorist organisation, that killed military personel (mostly from the back or remote control divaises) and inocent civilians including woman and kids.



As to TMT I do not agree with you. Firstly they did attack anybody, they were a dedicated civilian organisation that swore to difend civiliand from EOKA attacks. They were a defending organisation.

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 17:15

Lostgezzer! Thanks for your post!



The debate is not about Cyprus as such, I agree there has been much blood and strife between the Turks and the Greeks 100's of years!



My response to 6m is simple! He always seems to dress up his opinion as fact and then ram it down other people's throat! He believes that he has a monopoly on the 'facts' and that it is his way or no way!



I simply want him to acknowledge:



1. He dresses up his opinion as 'fact'



2. He should be honest enough to admit his bias is towards the GC side



3. His purpose on this thread is to show off how much he knows and to that extent belittle anyone, and I mean anyone who dares to disagree with him!



I am just not sure who died and made him God!



Let's just take the issue of dates. In post after post he refers to 1974 - mainly because it was a Turkish invasion and with so called GC losses - when challenged - it goes to 1963? My argument is why be selective? It is NOT a date issue - it is POLITICAL!

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 17:18

Cont'd...



In the bigger picture I doubt if anyone here or elsewhere gives a 'toss' what I or 6m or for that matter anyone here thinks!



I just don't have patience with people who pretend to be 'fair and balanced' when they are anything but...



If 6m just took a step back and looked at his postings he will see his bias but he is so full of himself that he cannot even bring himself to do that!



I am just glad he lives on that side of the island lol

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 17:18

look at all your posts m



after all your comments you are now only trying to prove that very few tc's





1/ recognise the RoC















2/ object to the numbers of Turks settling and feel outnumbered





i think you've just been knocked out



an honourable man would stay down



kind regards



yunus 1 - mmmmmm 0 game over via knock out

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 17:21

Yunus!



Yes, an honourable man would stay down - but aren't you asking a little too much from 6m?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 17:42

Dear Yunus re msg 142



NAUGHTY.. Why would you twist what I said.. !?



QUOTE ( refering to links to places where TCs of the "sort" Yunus doubts exist : " I will pm you shortly - will you acknowledge on the board that there are TCs who :

1/ recognise the RoC

2/ object to the numbers of Turks settling and feel outnumbered "



Kindly withdraw your fib ) ...



3/ re Mr Levent and his stances that TCs/ Turks committed atrocities to antagonise ill feeling / polarity ..

Please don't try to change the subject.. answer the question.. or is it too awkward?!



AGAIN .. WHY is it you trust / respect a GC that points out the failings of his "tribe" but not vice-versa ...?



re msg 143 >>As to TMT I do not agree with you. Firstly they did attack anybody, they were a dedicated civilian organisation that swore to difend civiliand from EOKA attacks. They were a defending organisation.<<



Hmm.. and WHO threw a bomb at the Turkish Ministry of Information in Nicosia? Sorry BB, but your

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 17:50

(cont) info is not correct.





Moovers321



>>I do not attack you personally as I do not know you! << very droll..



>>You are self-centred, pro-GC and claim to have the trade "mark" of being always right! Sad when someone points out to you that all you have is a lot of opinions dressed up as facts! <<



..and you just keep repeating your opinion and ignore your own advice.. it is YOU that needs to check what you write..



I KEEP asking you to substantiate your contentions and I'm STILL waiting... You've posted one link and I have said THREE times I can't see anything "biased" ... YOU forgot to mention my beef with the "rump" RoC not granting wifey the correct residency in that thread on that board - or mentioning the "north" had the best beaches and was prettier - would that have ruined your "bias" theory ? ;)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 18:02

re msg 143 BB



Did you know that TMT were JUST as Bad at killing / maiming their own ? They bumped off left of centre TCs who were pro-rapproachment - ordered TCs not to support GC businesses and not all TCs left their homes to live in ghettos willingly.



My info from TC sources , naturally.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 21:18

"The most dangerous enemy is the one within".............



"Greeks started cleansing within on 15/07/1974"..............do you remember that?(killing their own.)



"kings killed their wifes for not obeying"



"my father shot a soldier for not obeying"(during the war)















Than again,NEXT does a clearance twice a year for fresh start with new stock.....................











But,like my wife says..............I am a very hard person to understand.





my way of putting that...............is....................I KNOW WHAT I KNOW!





for everyoneelse..................?bla bla bla

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
22/08/2009 00:11

Dear Yorozlu



the GCs were killing their own in the fifties and TCs in the sixties - if not the fifties..



You seem to be VERY selective in what you want know ...

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
22/08/2009 06:03

6m! Probably the only person who cares about your opinions is yourself. Keep them were the sun doesn't shine! Like I said 80% of your posts are pro GC - that is bias! But you are either to full of yourself to see it - or you simply do not understand! Either way - I will keep repeating that you espouse opinion and conjectuter dressed as facts! Period!



You just don't get it - do you? Most of the people on this forum know you are pro GC and in many cases anti-TC and most certainly anti-Turk!



The only person who values your argument is yourself - I am merely ensuring new people coming here will read this and know you for what you are! Enjoy

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
22/08/2009 07:27

dear admins;



not that you need to explain why???????????



but it would have been nice to be able to see,""x" thread has been deleted for "x" reason!!!!!!!!!!!



so that others would at least know that,I had done something wrong.ie.being abusive...etc

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
23/08/2009 03:09

1955-59



History will always prevail.



http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/ROH.htm



Should you visit such places as Pyla, the Prince of Wales bar perhaps; the unbiased local conversation is refreshing.

Recognition of exchange lands being final for the times of pain and suffering.

The shotgun pointed towards the sky, should tampering be tempted.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/08/2009 17:56

Dear Moover321



>>probably the only person who cares about your opinions is yourself. Keep them were the sun doesn't shine<<



As long as I'm entitled to post my PoV, I fail to see why I should accede to your "request"..



>>Most of the people on this forum know you are pro GC and in many cases anti-TC and most certainly anti-Turk! <<



I must be "careful on my next hols to TR via "TRNC".. someone might believe you ;)



I am merely responding hoping a "newbie" will see anything substantive from you to back up ANYTHING you say .. ;)

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
31/08/2009 22:45

6m....as I have said...your reputation preceeds you! Whether it is a 'newbie' or a vetran reading your posts - it still smacks of your pro GC agenda!



You don't need to be careful here in the TRNC - it is generally a safer pamce to be than in the South!



Of course you are entitled to your personal opinion - as long as you make it clear it is exactly that - opinion and not opinion dressed up as fact! It is that aspect I said you cold put where the sun doesn't shine - but as per usual you always seem to 'twist' things to fit your world view!



I don't seek to persuade anyone of my views whether substantive or otherwise! But at least I can differentiate between fact and opinion - which you simply fail to do!



Good luck with your 'facticious' opinions - anyone with a modicum of sense will see that you are and always have been pro GC and of course full of yourself!



Enjoy

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/09/2009 09:54

Dear Moover321



I *always* enjoy your posts



Please quantify *your* latest "fact" >>You don't need to be careful here in the TRNC - it is generally a safer pamce to be than in the South! <<



STILL waiting to see any "facts" re bias...

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
01/09/2009 10:15

When you have got together and "agreed" please let me know which "label" you prefer ;)



if the cap fits wear it



mmmm your finger for typing must be worn to the bone give it a rest now.



i cant believe with all you apparent knowledge that you are just a meager sat tv installer.



think you would do well in the un but of course you would not know which chair to sit on

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/09/2009 10:39

Good morning CYairsoft!



>>i cant believe with all you apparent knowledge that you are just a meager sat tv installer. <<



You remind me of a prosecutor brief telling me "I repaired dishwashing machines" during a Crown Court proceedings.. he seemed to think THAT would "rile" me..



Your accuracy as to what I "do" is as entertaining, as your disjointed contributions..



"Funny" you should mention the UN... I think they are / were the best hope for CY.

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
01/09/2009 18:38

morning mmmmmm at least i can always get a reply from you





for me the un seem to shift weight toward the south rather then a level playing field

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/09/2009 12:07

Good morning "CY airsoft"



>>morning mmmmmm at least i can always get a reply from you <<



Especially as long as you post inaccurate , ill-researched "facts"...concerning my profession ;) .. or the UN..



>>for me the un seem to shift weight toward the south rather then a level playing field<<



..based on what criteria for your conclusion, please ?

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
02/09/2009 13:22

6m... Glad your pro GC stance is still shining bright! If you need evidence just read your own post and imagine it was written by someone else - you know as you say - play the devil's advocate - as you claim to do...and lo and behold your pro GC position will be clear for you to see! Failing that - ask if you dare - if people on this site think you are pro GC or not? You'll get the answer that may, just may, convince you that your head is so far up the proverbial region of what the Greeks allegedly enjoy the most that you really can't smell the coffee )



Glad you enjoy my posts - quite frankly I am sure most people here are already aware of your GC sympathies...but I'll keep going just for those - what did you call them...ah yes, 'newbies'...lol



Enjoy

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
02/09/2009 13:30

6m - I was expressing my opinion - not a fact Of course you easily get confused between opinion and fact as you obviously don't know the difference given your posts on this site ) lol;)



And in my opinion - see - I made it clear so even you can get your brain cell around it - the TRNC is far safer than the GC South!



So you have nothing to fear coming here save your ignorance about the TRNC and its people lol;)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/09/2009 13:46

Dear Moover321



re msg 162 good of you to NOW inform us that >>it ["TRNC"] is generally a safer place to be than in the South! << is now just an opinion..



I detect a VERY distinct trend in your posts.. opinionated and baseless in fact..



Please carry on with your "crusade" to "prove" "bias" ...

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
03/09/2009 01:04

I agree with Moover321, the TRNC is safer than the pittyfull Greek cypriot administrated area.

You need to use your BRAIN to realise why.....

Greek Cypriots come to the TRNC with no fear. They use our casinos, come shopping and sight seeing without their vehicles being damaged in ANY WAY at all.

(Dont get me wrong, i support GC using our casinos, as they are just handing their money over to us like the true two faced idiots that they are).



Turkish Cypriot's however, cannot feel so safe, due to their cars being broken into and vandalised.

Also, when Turkish Cypriot youngsters go to places like Aya Napa for an honest, calm night of fun, they walk around with the fear of being approached by a Group of Greek cypriot pig headed yobs, and you cannot deny this because i have seen this for myself when in Aya Napa with TC cousins that live in the TRNC.



Why do Turkish Cypriot's have to take their number plates off of their cars when in certain areas, so avoid being attacked?



ANSWER

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
03/09/2009 01:04

answer this one IF YOU CAN!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/09/2009 02:51

I can't..



You'd have to ask TCs who live in Paphos, Lima(s)sol, Pyla ( Pile)



You'd have to ask the TCs who come shopping



As to gambling GCs in "your" casinos .. in Ireland it was increasing commerce that paved the way to realising to peace ;)



You'd have to ask all the TCs who come to work in the "rump" RoC..



you'd have to ask the parents of TC kids who send their kids to school in the "south"..



Sadly, there are "village idiots" to be found everywhere.. I didn't think you were one of them...

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
03/09/2009 14:44

mmmmmm.....Here's a fact about the North being safer than the South.



Whilst taking a visitor to Larnaca Airport I was "tailgated" by a south registered car whilst overtaking another. This car I was overtaking speed-ed up at the same time so as to not let me pass. This continued for some minutes with both Greek Cypriot registered cars increasing and decreasing their speed continuously. My English passenger friend was not only scared stiff, she has vowed not to enter through the south in future.



These kind of incidents do not happen in the TRNC! Don't tell me that these were "just village idiots". They were nasty, horrible people who could have been the death of me, my wife and our friend.You do yourself no favours by allying yourself with this kind of scum.

Many Greek Cypriots are in denial regarding events in 1963 and 1974. They will not give up their distorted version of events and their current actions still reflect that.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/09/2009 17:40

Dear Geejay re msg 167



OF COURSE they were "village idiots!"... They probably saw the reg number and decided *you* live on their land ?!



The worst behaviour *I* ever experienced was a UK citizen in "TRNC".....



Oh and one TC youth saw my "rump" RoC reg'd car in slow moving traffic in N.Nicosia and was clearly mouthy and gesticulating... we smiled and waved back and his mates laughed at HIM..



I refer you to the TCs who regularly cross and LIVE in the "rump" RoC..



The " DAFT" thing is *I* always felt that I was "safer" in the "south" even though no-one ever really worried me.



I know TCs feel relieved when they cross northwards... it's all about experiences and what you are used to.

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
03/09/2009 19:08

mmmmm,



I dont need to ask those "Turkish Cypriots" because my family already tell me their views on it....



Do you think they actually LIKE working for a Greek Cypriot?

They have no option to work for them......they can't find other jobs!......There's me thinking you had a brain to figure something like that out.



And those TC's who live in Baf/Pile also chose to live there because of WORK! Do you really think that if job oppurtunities weren't so low in the TRNC that there would be TC's in the South?

Why would they WANT to work for somebody who doesnt respect them, give them a day off on their religious festivals etc? Because they have NO CHOICE!



Dont bother trying to play the "ASK TURKISH CYPRIOTS" card, because i have no need to! 50% of my family in the TRNC anyway......