News on the Cyprus talks

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
10/07/2009 20:26

http://northcyprus.biz/north_cyprus_FeedRedir.asp?FID=8955



Just an update,

Paul.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
10/07/2009 20:35

http://haber.turk.net/haber_detay.asp?ID=2300065&Cat=ENG

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
10/07/2009 20:45

http://northcyprus.biz/north_cyprus_FeedRedir.asp?FID=8946

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 19:45

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=123&sdetail=9186&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



But they wont make any concessions,

Paul.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 19:55

Dodge,



"Therefore, he said, “we will continue the negotiations with determination, flexibility and consistency on the principles set for a Cyprus solution”.



Flexibility and Consistency ? must be talking about baking bread

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
11/07/2009 21:47

well done paul for pulling out theses reports but I don't think it amounts to anything new really



what has always seemed peculiar to me is how the two presidential teams are negociating

on the hoof as it were, secretly it is true but from the public statements of those around them

from exactly the same opposing and contradictory positions we've had in cyprus since the 1950's



there have been peace deals where outside forces stepped in to bang heads together,

and there have been peace deals where journalists knew the "basics" were agreed beforehand

but this...(shakes head in dismay)



perhaps mark could confirm that there will nonetheless be an "agreement" within say twenty years,

what happens to the security guarantee as turkey really does seem cold-shouldered out of the eu,

and how much the average retired expat would be oblidged to pay, to go on living in his bungalow

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 14:55

Cheers Andre,

Seems that not alot of people are interested with developments though,

Paul.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 21:47

October 2009 seems to be the month that is being banded about for news of a big development regarding the talks.That seems to be the word on the street anyway,

Paul.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 21:51

Whats the word bat and ball.........anything positive ?

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 21:53

dodger



'The big development in October' Does that mean the Turks have realised the errors of their past and are going to take the whole Island? And about time too!



Richard

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 21:54

Hi Tats,

As usual mate its all as clear as mud.Just keep hearing from various sources that something will be announced in October.But that is all i can tell you at the moment,

Paul.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 22:17

http://northcyprus.biz/north_cyprus_FeedRedir.asp?FID=8957



They (gcs) just want everything and seem to get it as well,

Paul.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 12:04

http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/tax_transfer.html

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 12:25

Hi Paul



re msg 12



Turkey signed a deal in Ankara ( "Ankara Accord") and agreed to open its ports, airports and airspace to ALL EU members



TR's EU accession progress isn't being slowed by the "rump" RoC.. TR is managing that all by itself ! :(



The decision to suspend some "chapters" is an EU decision NOT the "rump" RoCs



Hope you understand, now !

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 13:41

Paul



Ankara Agreement had nothing to do with Cyprus It was signed before Cyprus was in the EU and the Cyprus of then was a different creature as to now .The protocol of 2005 which was integral to Turkey joining the EU was an addition to that agreement and was specifically to take account of enlargement since '64.



Before signing the protocol, Turkey said it in no way meant recognition of South Cyprus.



EU and not the ROC holding up the Turkeys accession, is is half correct . its a good partnership.

EU power brokers do not want Turkey in the EU . ROC /Greece see Turkeys accession as a lever to get control of the whole of Cyprus and open up the Turkish ports to the ROC tanker fleet.

The Greek and ROC veto will be an excuse to keep Turkey out without offending her.(trade etc).W.Europe will say "hey we really wanted you in but those nasty Greeks and GC's stopped us ,the rules you know". If that doesnt work another surrogate will be found to replace Cyprus, Armenia ?,

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 14:19

Just had an idea.Why dont the gcs and tcs both agree to open there respective air spaces and lift port embargoes.Jobs a good un,

Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 16:36

Dear Girne_29



The Ankara Accord was signed by TR AFTER the RoC had acceded to the EU ( May 1st 2004 )



So, your explanation doesn't make any sense.. TR signed knowing it would have to include the RoC - no point to try to move the goal posts...YES, they wanted the EU to end "TR isolation" - but it was TCs / TR who tightened the noose around TCs neck with the "declaration of inddependence" of "TRNC"..





http://www.andrewduffmep.org.uk/news/000167/duff_considers_turkeys_signature_of_ankara_accord_an_important_step_towards_cyprus_settlement.html





Paul



As TCs said YES to Annan in 2004 it would not seem *so* unreasonable.. but there would have to be a solution re property and how any new state would operate.



TR was MAD to sign this deal and expect GCs to give up their "trump card"

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 18:05

Dear MMMM





"The Ankara Accord was signed by TR AFTER the RoC had acceded to the EU ( May 1st 2004 ) "



I am not wrong.



The Ankara ACCORD was signed in 1921 between turkey and france.



The Ankara AGREEMENT was signed between Turkey and EU sept 1963(yes, been talking about Turkeys joining since then!).The advantage to Turkey was that its citizens had more favourable rights of employment in EEC countries,



The Ankara PROTOCOL was signed in 2005, and was an add on to the Agreement In The Protocol Turkey agreed to extend the agreement to include the 10 countries that had since joined.



Turkey stated at the time that they still did not formally recognise ROC as being included as it was not the same Cyprus as existed when Turkey signed the original agreement ,ie split.By recognising the ROC they would be in the awkward position of accepting the Greek Cypriot ROC as being the only Government of the TRNC.



Have heard Turkey and EU in conversations, but never ROC mentione

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 18:56

Dear Girne_29



re msg 18



YES, there was an Accord in 1921 - but if you go and check, you see the 2005 agreement, which TR signed, is called the "Ankara Accord"



Why are you splitting hairs? ..



The Ankara Accord we are referring to was simply a customs agreement and YES it included the 10 nations that HAD joined... that INCLUDED the RoC..



WHY sign an agreement - which is part of joining a club, if you aren't going to abide by it ?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 21:34

Talking about agreements, what happened to the agreement of lifting sanctions in delivering a yes vote to Annan.



Seems agreements are very selective

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 21:44

Would you like lots of sugar with your tea?



Just walked down the main shopping street in Girne. A big project is underway to improve the walkway. It looks like it is going to be very nice.



Who is paying for it? The EU

Are they shy about advertising this fact? Clearly not

Can we expect many more sweetners before the TC' S are asked to vote in the referendum?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 22:04

Hi ilovecyprus,



Is this where the Savoy Hotel is? They had just started it on my last visit. Is it going to be a pedestrian precinct? Nice to see some progress and I also observed a new shopping mall near the Colony Hotel. Payback I think, rather than sweetner!



Hope for the new bypass yet.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 22:07

Hi Mark,

Lots more sweeteners to come before the referendum matey still dont think they will wash though do you,

Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2009 01:51

Dear Turtle



re 20



>>Talking about agreements, what happened to the agreement of lifting sanctions in delivering a yes vote to Annan. <<



This is an oft mis-quoted "promise" .. The EU have had probs getting aid to TCs as the "rump" RoC wanted a say in how it was handed out.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
14/07/2009 02:01

6m;



so what about the promises re lifting the embargoes, direct flights etc from the UK, UN, EC.



The TC;S did their bit in 04 so why are they still in limbo?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2009 02:10

Dear Newscoop



re msg 25



Yes, TCs would have had these things IF the GCs had voted yes, too..



They could only have had those things with a YES/ YES vote ... The EU want to "reward" TCs but the UN Security Council Resolutions of 1983 - re the legal invalidity of "TRNC" - cause a legal roadblock.. now if the TCs got "smart" and renounced the declaration - I'll bet you a political solution would be found much more quickly - as the GCs would lose a "trump card".

yorkie58


Joined: 16/09/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
14/07/2009 08:03

Monday, July 13, 2009

ISTANBUL - Hürriyet Daily News with wires

Turkey wants peace negotiations aimed at reunifying Cyprus to conclude soon and a referendum by the end of 2009, President Abdullah Gul said Monday.



"Our sincere wish is that the leaders would reach a lasting settlement in their talks, and as part of this settlement, a referendum would be held by the end of this year," Gul was quoted by the state-run Anatolian Agency as saying at a joint conference with Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat in Ankara.



Gul said Turkey had always supported talks between Talat and his Greek Cypriot counterpart Demetris Christofias, adding that a Cyprus settlement should see that a Turkish-Greek balance was preserved in the eastern Mediterranean.



"Our ultimate goal is to reach a lasting settlement on the island and to devise a separate area of cooperation in the European Union with Turkey, Greece and the entire island," Gul added.



Talat said there was progress in certain areas

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 13:04

msge 22 and 23



Hi Bradus and Paul



Hope you are both well



I had good fun yesterday. My TC neighbour took me on a tour. We ended up picking melons. The owners gave us 50 melons to take away. How can ı eat so many. By the end of the week I will look like a melon. Thankfully my other neighbours also like the taste



A conversation I had the other day alerted me to the fact that a deal may already be cut. It seems clear to me that the present Turkish government want to join Europe (unless they are good actors). The job then is to convince the electorate to vote yes in the referendum. If Turkey is going to water down its guarantorship then the TC's have to be convinced that Europe is protective. The Kyenia project might be the start of a EU spin initiative.



Of course, my theory holds no water if there have been many highly visible and prominant EU projects (for people to see) over the last couple of years. Perhaps someone can answer that.

mixie


Joined: 16/05/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 13:39

ilovecyprus,



Does anyone ever mix you up with ilovekibris? Just a passing thought. Of course ilovekibris doesn't have a photo up on the site.



What you have said is very interesting. But I think that the Turkish Cypriot stance has perhaps hardened and well history tells a story, they all gaily voted yes last time looking for agreement and settlement and the South did not reciprocate.

I would imagine that anyone will have to do a real spin job on it now particularly if the propsals favour the South. What benefit would it have to them particularly if heaps of concessions are made to the South?

I am fascinated by the talks from a social psychology point of view. I get the sense that Talat has not done a bad job at all.

I feel that the EU membership of the South is acting a bit like a stick for them. I think it has been made clear that the EU want this situation worked out and who was the dissenter last time....the South.

I watch with baited breath

M

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 13:56

The problem is, much as I hate to sound like mmmmmm, that the Ankara Protocol is a legal obligation, whereas the EU promise to ease the TC plight was only that, a political promise. Legal obligations can't be broken, promises can.

However, in real politik give and take it is not unreasonable to compare the two.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 19:03

msge 29



yes Mixie, I have been confused with ILK. It's been annoying.



Yes ı agree the TC stance has hardened and yes, it seems that Talat has done a good job. He seems to have coped with the pressure and expectation

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 20:48

Hi ILC,



Melons are really good for quenching the thirst when its hot so in my opinion you can't have enough of them.



Good to hear you are mixing and making friends with the locals, hope this is improving your language skills. Difficult to get an accurate take on the political situation and the future of Cyprus. I read that much my viewpoint changes from week to week. I'm obviously gullible!



Would love to see a settlement but my gut feeling is that it is highly unlikely as neither side will compromise and the EU are not motivated enough to intervene positively.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 23:36

Mark,

I always had you down as a melon anyway,lol.I think that Mehmet Talat deserves a big pat on the back for carrying on with the talks and deserves a medal for his determination to the cause.The guy is stuck between a rock and a hard place.As for a settlement my views have changed from a definite no to i havent got a clue,

Paul.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 23:49

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=123&sdetail=9213&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



Update on the talks,

Paul.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 23:57

http://northcyprus.biz/north_cyprus_FeedRedir.asp?FID=8968



Its all going on guys,

Paul.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
16/07/2009

http://northcyprus.biz/north_cyprus_FeedRedir.asp?FID=8969



Come here theres more,

Paul.

sporty


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 685

Message Posted:
16/07/2009 02:30

i always think that,no news is good news, the 2 sides are seeming to be far more verbal about the talks with the press etc now, than they were a few months ago,only my opinion,but the more i read,the less likely they will reach an agreement.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
16/07/2009 10:00

The problem is that the gcs keep stating that under no circumstances will they make any concessions,which doesnt really make for a fair playing field for negotiations,

Paul.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
17/07/2009 10:01

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=123&sdetail=9226&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



More drivvle or is it.

dobbo



Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
17/07/2009 10:29

Seconds away round 37 !

President Mehmet Ali Talat of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and Greek Cypriot leader Demetris Christofias will meet for the 37th round of ongoing talks. (10:00 a.m. today)

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
17/07/2009 12:22

Where Talat will be tied and gagged and beaten senseless with a blunt instrument,

Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
17/07/2009 13:59

re 39



AGAIN, I do wish the "spokespersons" would SHUT UP.. these comments don't "help"..



I think the UN want to be sure that the Cypriots can be seen to negotiate without "outside" pressure.. for sure, there would be a claim of "foreign pressure", otherwise..

loslobos


Joined: 02/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
17/07/2009 23:17

Roger that, Dodger

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 01:06

re msg 30



stop it vaughan you sound like mmmmmm.



so if the e.u promise something and you do not sign an agreement stating the oral contract, don't trust them because they are a bunch of lying scum. thank you vaughan, exactly my point !

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 12:08

Has anything been agreed yet re the talks or is it just the usual smoke scree with nothing concrete being signed.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 12:15

http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=105223



Hot off the press

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 14:08

Dear Yunus



re msg 30



Do get back to "TRNC"V or even me.. when you've got your facts correct.. The EU ain't the "problem".. the insane "declaration of independence" and the ensuing UN resolutions ARE..



I KNOW TCs said YES to Annan and effectively said that's OK with us... but what would you have the EU do ? ...



The EU has managed to get proportionally more aid to TCs than GCs..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 14:10

Dear Newlad



there are SO many factual misreporting in this report from The Azers it is akin to a fairy tale.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 20:39

Mark,

Are you sitting comfortably,then i will begin.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 20:59

mark,



ah but do you think the tc's would still say "yes" to 2004 annan given the situation now?

it's not good enough to simply reiterate the reasons why you or I may think they should



as for the south,

clearly christofias painted himself into a corner early on saying the rejected plan is dead,

and while you comment that the present situation cannot continue...

I'd assume you think the trnc would be absorbed into turkey, implode in disarray like the old ussr

or even that in some form of reunification celebration that I cannot imagine however hard I try,

we will all get invited to a big fat greek/turkish cypriot wedding



if you get a date for this let me know, I'll fast the day before like the cats in the catfood ads

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 00:33

re msg 47

dear mmmmmm



it is a shame that you do not understand turkish cypriot's dear mmmmmm as it is not e.u hand outs they desire but their freedom. shame you campaigned for annan but do not see the facts of the turkish cypriot problem. why are they treated as if they have comitted a crime against humanity? why are there double standards dear mmmmmm. was it the t.c's who were comitting genocide ? fortunately the greed of the darkside spoiled a deal that even you thought was great for them. shame

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 00:57

yunus makes a good point:

north cyprus would do better making its own way in the world when the isolations are lifted

contrary to some people's ideas they prefer freedom to charity



just as in contrast to some expats fanciful theories about compo deals

the gcs actually want their formerly occupied lands handed to them, (not a cheque or rubber-stamped paper)

they won't ever get that of course but now we are in a wholly different ball-park...

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 16:07

if your land has not been built on, you have the right to claim it back or take payment for it.



if your land has been built on you can only apply for payment instead.



as the trnc government has given way for you to purchase, they are now responsible to deal with the original land owner and agree payment



this will be the conclusion.



if you take a risk, you need to live with the results ! ( 1974 )



fair or not ! genuine answers.



nobody who has rightfully paid for their property in the trnc according to the trnc law will loose out. anybody who tells it different is only trying to prove that the trnc does not exist and that there is no law here.

we are here and life goes on whether others like it or not.



and yes the system has its problems on a personal level more so than anywhere else may be, and unfortunately you can get caught up in between your builder and solicitor. do take extreme care until the laws have been smoothed out and a court case does not last 5 years.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 21:52

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/cyprus/TJ666OB20IQ8BI6JG



Think they mean business.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 22:57

Alternatives , interesting.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 11:22

Dear Yunus



re msg 51



I do believe we may be near a "meeting of minds"..



"Freedom" - can you tell me how a TC isn't free to travel on his / her RoC passport - enjoying all the rights of any EU citizen - they don't have to pay taxes in the state that issues their passport, but they have the right to live and work freely all over Cyprus.. does a GC have that right ?





"Embargoes"



"Direct Flights"... "TRNC" has way more flights to TR than it would if flights went straight to the tourist destinations - the locals would lose out ..if they went !



"Trade" - ways can be found.. and have been.. you'll see how "differences" are forgotten when it comes to the "dollar" - why/ how do you think *I* could get DOPI TV so easily in the south ?





Yup - no-one campaigning for GCs to vote yes to Annan would be suggesting TCs committed a crime against humanity.. but they could see that TCs have a way to remove any "yolk" they placed on they own shoulders - the declaration of "ind

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 15:45

we'll let the forum members decide dear mmmmmm

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
21/07/2009 03:58

As the minister mentioned ..

Enough is Enough and this was demonstrated and acted upon in 1974.

The future will also be acted upon and also decided by Turkey.

Should this be not the EU route, then so be it.

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
21/07/2009 05:39

Hi 6ms,



Is yolk on the shoulder anything like egg on the face?



Or did you mean yoke?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/04/2010 21:08

The good old days eh nothing changes does it.Apart from Dodger wears glasses and calls himself Newlad.Does that constitute coming out of the closet,

Paul.