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Did your lawyer tell you ?

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glencoe


Joined: 01/02/2008
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 09:04

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Message 1 of 29 in Discussion

Just want to know how many people were NOT told by their solicitor that they could NOT buy a property till they had a permission to purchase

no names please just yes or no



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 09:40

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Message 2 of 29 in Discussion

No...nor did he tell us about....Stamp Duty.......Property transfer tax...we had to pay VAT.



He didnt tell us the law was unenforceable in THE TRNC.........in fact we never saw him..



.We were charged an INITIAL 1000 by the Estate Agent that reccommended him,..HE drafted the agreement we signed, which we are now told is not worth the payment that it is written on.



NOT MUCH OF A PROFESSIONAL WAY TO CONDUCT HIS CLIENTS BUSINESS?



Now lets be fair.......He DID charge us 250( to his London account) for filing our contract



with the land Registry (just over the road from his office) after my wife and I had queued 2



days earlier, to pay our own Stamp Duty.



Familiar Story? ITS JUST A STORY OF EVERY DAY LIFE FOR BUYERS IN THE TRNC



NOW The HPBG have issued guidelines for property buyers in the TRNC. Advice to all



property buyers. FOLLOW THEM TO THE WORD!!!!



STOP PRESS.......just when you thought it was all over KIBTEK to charge Brits 3x the locals, deposit for an Electricity meter. 540YTL. Now thats what I call TAKING THE P---.



(Sorry last bit was off topic!! You can understand the frustration though, surely!



wynyardman



(Glencoe..We just luv ya!!!!! Just a YES or NO.......All the best........John)



McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 12:20

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Message 3 of 29 in Discussion

Yes,



Ours told us, and that the PTP was lengthy process.



They told us about Stamp Duty, we paid it within 3 weeks of signing the contract.



They also told us about all the other taxes that will be payable.



Can't complain about them not telling us, but to be fair, we did our research and knew all about these charges way before we entered their office.



MC



breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 13:35

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Message 4 of 29 in Discussion

Hi Glencoe,

Yes she told us everything. She obviously didn't know about the time limit on registering contracts in 2005 but I don't think she needs to charge 350 to do it for us.On a useful point she got power of Attorney back in 2005 which was a good move.

BB



paul90


Joined: 07/11/2007
Posts: 350

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 13:43

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Message 5 of 29 in Discussion

Hi Breezyboy

I probably have the same advocate as you.

Told us everything in advance.

Showed us a video about purchasing in TRNC.

Excellent website about taxes etc.

Remember, it wasn't required to register contracts with the Land Registry in 2005 - this new law was introduced in 2008.



larry f


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 116

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 13:50

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Message 6 of 29 in Discussion

Yes ours us told us about all the tax's , he didn't tell us that we'd get a reduction in the stamp duty if paid within 21 days, but we are now availing of the amnesty so that's worked out o.k.

We did have second thoughts when we came home, with just the reservation fee paid, we emailed him about our concerns, He wrote back a lengthy email basically saying what a good investment it was, and that the title was safe, He also gave us the option of selling our contract if we still wanted out but we decided to proceed.



Theresa



simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 13:57

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Message 7 of 29 in Discussion

yes , told us everything



glencoe


Joined: 01/02/2008
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 14:15

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Message 8 of 29 in Discussion

iT SEEMS THAT SO FAR 'ALMOST EVERYONE' WAS TOLD THAT THEY COULD NOT BUY AND YET THEY ALL WENT AGAINST THEIR LAWYERS ADVICE AND BOUGHT ANYWAY WITHOUT THE PERMISSION TO PURCHASE !!

TRULY AMAZING,

EITHER THAT OR EVERYONE SO FAR HAS NOT READ THE QUESTION CORRECTLY, BECAUSE I DONT THINK THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN MANY SALES OF PROPERTY IF EVERY ONE OF YOU HAD WAITED TWO TO FOUR YEARS TILL YOU GOT PERMISSION TO PURCHASE



orangekazzie



Joined: 31/07/2007
Posts: 1091

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 14:21

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Message 9 of 29 in Discussion

Yes told us everything, even told us that we were only allowed to buy a maximum of 1 donnum per couple (same surname, does not apply to partners with different surnames) and if we wanted to buy any additional land to put it into the names of our children!



Geoff1131


Joined: 12/07/2007
Posts: 276

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 15:50

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Message 10 of 29 in Discussion

Hi Glen, Yes I agree with you, it seems people have not read the question properly. My Advocate told me of all the taxes and when they would be due, and told me about needing permission to purchase before the deeds could be trasfered into my name, but at no point was I informed that I needed the permission before I could start the buying process, if I had been told I would have waited to obtian permission before going ahead.

I did raise the point with my Advocate that what would happen if I should be refused permission to puchase and she just said in that unlikley case she would apply to put the property into my sons name. But she never gave me a reason to think that permissions are ever refused.

Geoff



larry f


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 116

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 16:00

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Message 11 of 29 in Discussion

Hi Geoff,

That is exactly what happened in our case too. I was just in the process of writing practically word for word what you have just said. My solicitor also said that if in the unlikely case we were refused, that there were ways around it , and we could apply in one of our children's names. I see your solicitor is female, mine is male so they are obviously not the same.



Theresa



breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 16:03

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Message 12 of 29 in Discussion

Hi Greg,

I think that the problem in permission to purchase was put in a mild acceptable way. Like we are in a virtual third world country so it will take forever but there is nothing to worry about. I actually have ptp granted after only 2 years. BUT they are now saying another 18 months to parcelise the 8 properties from one and there is no short route to expedite our deeds.



paul90


Joined: 07/11/2007
Posts: 350

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 16:05

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Message 13 of 29 in Discussion

This is what my advocate told me - and is published on their company web site:



We will then make the application to the Council of Ministers for your permission to purchase. Whilst processing your purchase permit application, the Council of Ministers will take searches from the land registry, the military and the immigration authorities and provided that these are positive, the permission will be granted. The permission process can take a long time to complete; the current estimation is around two years. However, this will not prevent you from moving into the property or leasing the property or possibly even selling the property as standard practice, we always try to negotiate with the vendor the insertion of a clause into the contract allowing you to sell the property before taking title to the property. We can also provide advice on other ways to secure your interest until you receive the title deeds, for example by registering a charge over the property. You should note that the Government of the TRNC has made statements to the effect that all purchasers should obtain permission to purchase from the Council of Ministers before purchasing the property. There is a small risk that the permission to purchase could be refused. Therefore, to protect purchasers, the Government advises that permission to purchase should be obtained before any monies are paid by the purchaser. However, due to the length of time permissions are taking to be processed, purchasers find that following this advice is not practical. It is virtually impossible to find a vendor who is willing to wait for a purchaser to obtain purchase permission before concluding the sale. Purchasers who proceed on this basis must therefore accept that there is a risk attached to purchasing without obtaining permission from the Council of Ministers first and there is a small possibility that the permission to purchase could be refused. You can reduce this risk by ensuring that the property you wish to purchase is not in close proximity to any military bases and you should be aware that you will need to prove to the Council of Ministers that you have no previous criminal convictions. In the event that your application for permission is refused, you can nominate any other person to take title to the property on your behalf and hold the property on trust for you. We can assist you with the drafting of the necessary trust deeds. If you wish, we can also try to negotiate with the vendor to insert a term into the Contract stating that in the event that the purchase permit is refused, the vendor will refund the purchase price to you.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 18:09

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Message 14 of 29 in Discussion

I was told that pdp was just a formality and that only buyers purchasing homes near to the army camps or those who had a criminal record were ever refused. I was assurred that these were the only circumstances for refusal. mid build I then began to read alarming reports, some from HBPG, some in Cyprus Newspapers that Pre 74 Turkish Title deeds were being refused ptp.

Obviously alarmed and so contacted advocate who continued to reasure that these must have been near army bases or refusal due to criminal records. HBPG have raised this issue again and solicitor now saying don't worry they will offer pre 74 title deed purchasers 99 year leases instead if you don't get permission. Would not be happy with that situation at all. So just waiting for more info from HBPG. Stupid system.... permission to purchase should be the first thing one does and should take a matter of weeks. Everyone would know where they stand then.



orangekazzie



Joined: 31/07/2007
Posts: 1091

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 18:34

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Message 15 of 29 in Discussion

As mentioned earlier, we were told everything.

We bought our land first, paying a small deposit which had a clause whereby if permission wasn't granted we would have our deposit returned together with interest. Our permission to buy to come through within took 9 months. We also had to buy a right of way as the road shown on the Index Map wasn't considered to be safe. After all of this was finalised we instructed an architect and builder.

Karen



RTgirl



Joined: 13/03/2007
Posts: 73

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 19:42

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Message 16 of 29 in Discussion

Nope, not told to have permission before purchasing but was advised that it would be just a formality, providing I wasn't a criminal My house is not near anything military so it shouldn't be a problem - here's hoping! I do have a clause in the contract that I can sell before my deeds come through and a refusal of PTP would be acceptable although, so far, nobody sees that as being a problem.



glencoe


Joined: 01/02/2008
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
25/03/2008 23:53

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Message 17 of 29 in Discussion

Great people many thanks

I was merely pointing out that like most things here, there is a great deal of ambiguity and people tend in general to read into things what they want to read and take things for granted till something goes wrong - then squeal like stuck pigs, my question was simple and Karen and Wynyardman were the only ones who seemed to read it right

I would wager that for everyone who was specifically told about the need to gain permission to purchase 'First' fifty were not told

Breezyboy I recall a person having given a lawyer power of attorney in 1998 over a piece of land and he lost the lot !



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
26/03/2008

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Message 18 of 29 in Discussion

Point well raised glenco. I have often wondered what would happen if people united and told their TrNC lawyers and builders, we wish to follow the law and therefore will be applying for ptp before starting process. Just reserve the property until it comes through.



McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
26/03/2008 09:08

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Message 19 of 29 in Discussion

Sue,



I agree with both you and Glencoe, but I think if everyone was to follow this procedure, the whole system would gring to a halt, until the Government regulate the process properly and get their act together and get rid of all backlogs.



Then it would work, but I don't see any evidence of that happening.



MC



paul90


Joined: 07/11/2007
Posts: 350

Message Posted:
26/03/2008 10:16

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Message 20 of 29 in Discussion

Am I right in assuming that if there is reunification - a single Cyprus state - then PTP would not be a legal requirement because being in the EU means that we would all be EU citizens with freedom of movement etc.??



orangekazzie



Joined: 31/07/2007
Posts: 1091

Message Posted:
26/03/2008 10:24

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Message 21 of 29 in Discussion

Hi Paul90

Not sure about that because unless the system has changed in the South then they still had to apply for permissions the same as the North. They just used to come through a lot quicker but they still had similar problems with builders splitting the title. In the South though you weren't allowed to sell your property until you were in possession of the title deeds, whereas in the North people tend to sell regardless.

Karen



larry f


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 116

Message Posted:
26/03/2008 13:19

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Message 22 of 29 in Discussion

Hi all,



Does anyone think, that now because you can register your contract soon after signing, instead of at the complection of the property as before, that the PTP might come through faster?



Larry



AbbyG


Joined: 26/11/2007
Posts: 113

Message Posted:
26/03/2008 14:10

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Message 23 of 29 in Discussion

orangekazzie:

You were very lucky to find a vendor prepared to accept a 'deposit only' on the land you bought, and wait for the remaining balance to be paid after PTP came through - in your case only 9 months!!! I imagine there would be very few, if any, who would be prepared to wait the 2 years it is currently taking, otherwise I'd be more inclined to go ahead with my purchase.

_________________________________________________________________



Also, regarding solicitors saying that in the unlikely event that there are problems with PTP then they can simply apply in someone else's name. If the police check comes back OK (and you would know that because you apply for it yourself, and according to my solicitor PTP paperwork CANNOT be processed until the police report is obtained) then any other reason for being refused will still stand, surely, so what would be the point in applying in someone else's name when the outcome will be the same??? I don't get that at all.



glencoe


Joined: 01/02/2008
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
26/03/2008 15:43

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Message 24 of 29 in Discussion

Well said AbbyG

another trick to get one to sign on the dotted line I presume, who in their right mind would even think of applying for something as major as house purchase 'in someone elses name', just another mockery



PS I know more than one person in Esentepe who have been waiting over 3 years for their PTP and still no sign !!



joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
26/03/2008 18:45

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Message 25 of 29 in Discussion

I spoke to a couple last week who have waited over 4 years for their PTP and they have been refused. They know it is not to do with the police check and have been told it was the military who turned them down. All their neighbours have been given permission and everyone else who lives nearby. So what on earth is going on? They also said that every time they tried to chase the decision they were given different excuses.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
26/03/2008 20:56

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Message 26 of 29 in Discussion

Don't suppose you know if was pre 74 Turkish Title deed do you?



Jarra



Joined: 07/08/2007
Posts: 61

Message Posted:
26/03/2008 22:50

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Message 27 of 29 in Discussion

Not only did our Solicitor explain the procedure to us so did our builder and if we were going to build again I would review with hindsight if we would do anything different. I am fortunate to have many friends who helped us achieve the result we obtained and I would do exactly the same again except for one thing that is to avoid the mister 10% characters. The problem though is identifying them.



AbbyG


Joined: 26/11/2007
Posts: 113

Message Posted:
27/03/2008 14:00

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Message 28 of 29 in Discussion

All of these irregularities by the TRNC government make me reluctant to purchase in NC even though I really want to!! I wonder if any government officials actually read these forums and realise what a terrible disservice they are doing to their own economy by scaring away potential buyers, or perhaps the sad truth is, they don't care! I would be absolutely delighted to buy a place if I was 100% sure that my property would be 'mine' once purchased, rather than the prolonged agony of waiting to see if the PTP comes through THEN a further wait to see if you'll ever actually get your hands on your title deeds. I think the only way the government will change the procedural inconsistencies is if we Brits stop buying in NC until they do ................



SamDil


Joined: 06/01/2008
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/03/2008 03:36

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Message 29 of 29 in Discussion

No.



We certainly were not told this, although we were told that we would need PTP, but this was never refused unless you had a criminal record or it was near army territory.

Nothing ever said about obtaining PTP before buying.



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