ROC dosn,t forsee settlement this year

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 12:35

Reuters , just published article. Stefano Stefanou senior government spokesman, feels there is little chance of a settlement within the TRNC timetable i.e this year as they are poles apart on issues like resettlement, power sharing and territorial adjustments. Not going to happen is it ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 12:46

Keep faith..



and I do wish Politicians entrusted with being involved in these talks would SHUT UP..

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 12:53

Why doesnt the TRNC just accept everything the ROC wants ,army out, settlers home ,no matter how detrimental.The talks at least would be completed and an agreement on the table for all to vote on.



Have the vote ,under UN control,the result then having to be accepted as in any democratic vote ,by all parties,UN, TRNC ,ROC, and EU. and accept the new reality. Yes and accept the above and become part of the ROC. NO and become indepedant or part of Turkey.



Time to move on.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 13:17

Dear Girne_29



I am sure your response was mostly tongue in cheek, but in the unlikely case it wasn't ..



1/ any vote will NOT be making an autonomous TC region of CY part of the "RoC".. TCs would have real autonomy - they don't have that now...



2/ TR can't afford to annex CY -even if it and TCs really wanted that..

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 13:53

wasnt being tongue in cheek.

Am not getting into discussion about what the TRNC will end up as.In reality I dont know if Turkey will or will not take over TRNC, Will it cost more than now?what about the oil/gas rights? .

You are more involved than me so are able to say what will or wont happen with a certainty I cant muster.



This cant carry on for another 5 years. The EU is getting fed up ,UN is getting fed up ,Oil and Gas is waiting to be exploited. Water problems need to be addressed.



What I am suggesting is that the UN tells both sides,

" By 12/09, you will have an agreement ready.On issues like turkish army guarantee ,land, and Turkish settlers ,if agreement cant be reached ,we will arbitrate and that will be what is inserted into agreement.

That will go to the vote in TRNC and ROC All parties will accept the result.

There will be no further attempts."



Failure to comply will mean we wash our hands of you. Other problems exist and enough time has ben spent on you.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 14:37

Dear Girne_29



Effectively, as far as the ECHR TR already effectively runs "TRNC".. I believe you know that.



It has carried on for at least 46 years, but the fact that the "rump" RoC is in the EU and TR has applied will bring things to a head .



Both sides will have to compromise..



The UN / EU ( esp the latter ) can't wash their hands of it, but they can and will have to ultimately start playing "hard ball"..



Neither TR, the "rump" RoC, nor TCs are going to be "happy".. a compromise HAS to happen.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 14:40

"both sides will have to compromise" come on Mark what will the gcs compromise on in your opinion,

Paul.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 21:40

In true EU fashion if the said vote did not go the way the EU want then the TC,s would be patted on the head and asked ....sorry told to rethink and come back and vote again and again til they get the vote the wish.



Just look at the Irish

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/07/2009 21:50

Pilgrim. You are so right - it's not going to happen!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
16/07/2009 09:36

re msg 7 Paul



>>what will the gcs compromise on in your opinion, <<



1/ their state ( RoC)



2/ territory



3/ right to reside where they like - abrogation of EU right - included in that they would have to accept they can't return to their homes / land



4/ title might become leasehold - from freehold

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
16/07/2009 21:11

mark message 2:



"keep faith"



but why would anyone need "faith"?



surely those like yourself who have indicated again and again and again

that this year's cyprus talks can yet result in some sort of agreement in the forseeable future

don't need "faith":

better a reading of the facts, which would have suggested some real momentum for a deal,

an agreed compromise between the sides

as a notable "first" in the modern history of cyprus with all its radical implications such as

demilitirisation of the island, one single citizenship, integration of cyprus' peoples and economy

...and turkey itself into the eu



just like "75% in the bag" (suzanne) or "90% sure there will be an agreement by june" (sic) (private pike)

I believe you have followed in letting the cat out of the bag...now even you are forced to rely on blind "faith"

because the tide of probability is turning very sharply against your agenda as these days of 2009 lengthen

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
17/07/2009 10:31

re 11 Andre_514



You seem to be overly verbose on the subject of the talks - specifically, somewhat negative re the possibility of "success"..



Now if I was a poster like you, I might be asking myself why;)

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
17/07/2009 10:54

Lets face reality.....Turkey will not conceed NC untill it is promised FULL membership to the EU, this is not going to happen as Germany and France, both do not want Turkey, as a Muslim state, to have a say in the EU, herein lies the problem.

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
17/07/2009 14:46

dear stewart

turkey will not conceed northern cyprus full stop. the divide and conquer crew are trying to tell everyone that a turkish cypriot is not a turk. please, do not think for one moment that turkey will leave its people or land on this island for any other cause.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
17/07/2009 20:43

Dear Yunus,



re msg 14



One of us must have a very short memory



"This Country is Ours".. 2003 ringing any bells ?..



Of course the Army "mustn't go.."



TR military "needs to protect Turkey's soft underbelly " ))))) .. That one always makes me laugh... Did the



May be the General in Q think that GCs were going to invade Turkey ...



May be the 40 new Russian tanks float ?! ;)



Come on.. we ALL know the plan is to Turkify Cyprus - whether the TCs wanted it or not..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
17/07/2009 21:27

Sorry... I wish to amend IS in the last sentence to WAS...

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
17/07/2009 21:53

mmmmmm msg 12,



you put "success" in inverted commas:

because it all depends what one is hoping for and why doesn't it?

for cyprus that also means a signed agreement survives in practice



nobody needs to "keep faith" like when you let the cat out of the bag in msg 2,

but trust, realism, compromise, security, safeguards and tolerance instead:

then we're motoring to an agreement!

and just how many of these do you detect at present? not too many? any at all?



then I think I understand why you now feel we may need a dose of "faith" instead,

exactly as you have suggested

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
17/07/2009 21:59

Dear Andre_514



>>you put "success" in inverted commas: because it all depends what one is hoping for and why doesn't it? <<



"Faith" in the politicians and those who realise this "status quo" can't go on.. success in resolving it via a referendum - getting a YES /YES.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
17/07/2009 22:39

I agree with you mark, the staus quo will not continue:



north cyprus is becoming more of a turkish province with every year that passes



but would you adam and eve it, certain expats on "44" say bring it on!

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 01:00

re msg 15



"One of us must have a very short memory"



no, one of us does not know about turkish, pride, honour and culture unfortunately.



i think at the moment dear mmmmmm, turkey is just waiting to see if anybody at all is man enough or honourable enough to keep just one of their promises made to the tc's. this makes me laugh all the time but the turks and tc's aren't laughing dear mmmmmm !

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 10:19

Border I have to confess I saw a Mosque in Larnaca..just the one...sadly it had graffiti scribbled all over it..does that warrant an apology from me...YES I GUESS IT DOES

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 10:54

Dear Yunus



re msg 20



Interesting you "pass over" the "This Country is OURS" movement.....



Are you saying they forgot *their* Turkish pride, honour and culture?" ..



How could those "ungrateful" people behave so "badly" to the Nation that was /is trying to swallow their "nation".. the one TR "created"...



" NOT Understanding TR pride..(!) "

Yunus, my Dear.. I have visited TR many times - I am WELL aware of the pride Turks take in their nation - but national pride also makes me VERY uncomfortable.. where I'm born and my parents ethnicity shaped my views - I wonder if that is correct?



I simply don't agree that a GC is Greek, any more than a TC is a Turk - They may feel Greek / Turkish - but they are Cypriots... as you know, many TCs only spoke Greek back before 74 and TCs had distinct dialects. Indeed post 74 the TR speaking kids mocked these TC kids terribly.



Why did so many TCs continue to leave the island after they had been "saved"?



Please deal with my speci

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 11:05

continued from 22



Please deal with my specific points / questions ; )





Dee re msg 21



Why did you spray Dee was 'ere on the Mosque ? ;) .. apology accepted .. Hopefully you might find the other 100 Mosques...



Seriously shocked that you would see such graffiti and I am sure the municipal authorities / TC Property Custodian would repair the damage done - as it looks "bad"...

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 11:14

massage 22 mark



again I have to agree:



using an "adam and eve" reference again as I did in message 19

we agree that adam and eve were not created to be either greek-cypriot, or cyriot-turk



and even assuming humans were not created but just sort of happened,

then like the weight watchers ad which says "my appetite was in my head not my tummy"

the question of ethnicity is really in your brain not your genes



to get round this problem, man created majority rule,

which accordingly became a nightmare for one of cyprus' ethnic populations



so why blame them and their supporters if they say : "never again"?

and why on earth compare them all to caring sharing ireland if they don't care and won't share?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 11:19

Dear Andre_514



re msg 24



As you read and agreed with much in msg 24 ( Thanks) who ARE "they" ?!



I blame a lot of their ancestors or some elderly folk still around who got caught up in the mess.. with a great deal of "help" from Greece, Turkey Britain and latterly the US..

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
18/07/2009 12:46

Border you sussed me out..queen of the graffiti ..I will continue looking on my travels to the 'dark side' and will report back.



I hope the authorities do clean up the graffiti, one of the slogans was in blue and white and it looked like the EOKA logo..so sad.



I just hope I don't have to make 100 apologies, I will wear out the necessary letters on my keyboard

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 00:40

I wonder how useable the notion of "blame" is in the cyprus situation...



as you yourself have said there were dark deeds done by all sides,

but it seems fanciful that after so many bitter years both sides will feel motivated

to participate in a "truth and reconcilliation" project or even a war crimes process

due to the impossibility of finding any outfit to organise it so that it would be free of perceived bias

or simply become a new platform for each side slagging off the other



another contradiction about accountability is that whatever the turkish side

did or did not do in the 1974 peace operation etc

it is a matter of personal belief rather than fact

that the cypriot turks "would" have been forced off the island or even murdered wholesale by eoka "b"

...the more recent break-up of yugoslavia resulted in hundreds of thousands of cases exactly like that



far better to begin building trust via mutual recognition, but you tell us that is against international law

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 00:42

message 27 above is directed to mark

loslobos


Joined: 02/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 00:57

No, it ain't.. good !!

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 14:59

their are no ungratefull people in the trnc from where i'm standing. you probably would like there to be but your knowledge is based on propaganda to divide. this is where you get confused about the culture and honour. this is not ireland and you were not born here.

nobody shaped my views dear mmmmmm, i was born in england my parents in paphos and istanbul, their parents in thesaloniki ( greece ) and asia. unlike yourself i learned of culture and honour whilst living in many different countries. and not government propaganda according to what may suit them on that particular day. please tell me of your knowledge about " this country is ours ". or let me tell you what you're about to say;



- the t.c's hate the turks

- their was no genocide

- the t.c's and g.c's were living very happily together when turkey interviened

- turkey is to blame and none of this would have happened if they had not invaded (quote mmmmmm)

etc etc.



sorry to burst the bubble continued

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
19/07/2009 15:19

my grandmother speaks better greek than she does turkish, and she does have many lovely greek friends who she still talks to today.

and whilst studying in turkey for 5 years, my friends thought that my cypriot accent was absolutely superb. they used to try to copy my accent in their daily lives as they thought it was cool. this is what i lived, not what you were told or think you may be able to get away with. to much propaganda and not enough human contact of the right sort. would love to meet in person for a long chat over a drink when you are next over. please understand that everybodies thoughts to themselves. live and let live. respect the next persons views.

it is very simple to twist the truth as lost geeza had a post about turkeys problems with the kurds but not he nor anybody else mentioned the fact that 40,000 kurds were given shelter, food and medical treatment when the irak war broke out. a balanced opinion, as most members do have, is great, not a political propaganda one

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 00:46

Dear Yunus



re msg 31



in response to my msg 22/3



Did you remember.. "please deal with my specific Q's ?"



1/ AGAIN.. why did all these "grateful" TCs continue to leave Cyprus post Aug 74 ? ..



2 / AGAIN in response to >>turkey will not conceed northern cyprus full stop<< I asked, "One of us must have a very short memory ..."This Country is Ours".. 2003 ringing any bells ?.. "



What response do I get ?! You ask ME what I know about the organization.. and you moan about "politicians".. ANSWER THE QUESTION, please.... ! Do that and I'll happily tell you about my experience of "This country is Ours" (- i..e NOT Turkey's ...!)



Yunus, do try quitting the "divisive propanganda line"... I am very much in favour of GCs and TCs working , living together..



I'm sorry, but how does being born / having a parent born in a country "negate" my "input" having lived there - and experiencing BOTH sides ? ;) ... getting a bit "desperate", aren't we...?



cont... ( tomorrow )

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 10:46

cont



More questions for you !



4 / >>turkey is to blame and none of this would have happened if they had not invaded (quote mmmmmm) <<



Could you please try and find this "quote" ? Extremist GC rightwingers, GR Junta, VERY much responsible, too..Only an idiot would suggest it was all TR's "fault"... I hadn't got you down as one.. please don't disappoint..

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
20/07/2009 16:10

dear mmmmmm



your answers are all there, we are not in primary school anymore. i have answered your questions in many posts over and over. from now on if you give mickey mouse you get bugs bunny.