A puzzling difference in attitudes between TC and GC sympathisers

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 12:23

Hi all, Ian from Oz here.

Been reading many of the posts (and posters) on this fascinating forum for a few months now, as I've bought a villa in Esentepe and am understandably interested in everything Cyprus.

My wife and I toured all over the south on three occasions before taking the plunge and going north into "a third world country", "filled with Turkish dogs", where we would "have to dodge all the Turkish troop convoys constantly on exercises" and "find little trace of civilisation or civilised people". I promise you these are all verbatim quotes from many of the people we met and talked to in Larnaca, Limassol and Paphos. There were more.

We've been looking for a place to call home for some time, as we could no longer afford to live in Oz; we looked in China, Africa, Canada and America, Oman and Norway. Someone told us to try Cyprus, so we did. cont. below...

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 12:29

But the south was as developed as a lot of the European riviera and seemed about as expensive, and we'd always been looking for a place that was unpolluted, quiet, not easy to get to, attractive, with a lot of local history and culture and a relaxed and easy-going lifestyle.

So we went north and found exactly that. Additionally, the prices were far less than in the south. The decision was not difficult, especially when we discovered a beautiful villa in a quiet estate in Esentepe, with stunning sea views and air laden with the scent of the numerous pine trees in the area. The bonus was the presence of a number of British ex-pats who only wanted to help us with good advice, and of a village full of wonderfully friendly Turkish Cypriots who made us feel very welcome.

Sorry to be so long-winded about this, but I wanted to explain my position so there would be no doubt as to my "leanings".

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 12:30

I've come to know many of the posters and where they stand on the great debate, and have read a number of books and articles, including the mandatory "Genocide Files" and "The Cyprus Conspiracy". I'm also following the Orams' case with interest.

But here's the bit that puzzles me: I've visited that other forum and glanced at some of the posts by people like Miltiades, and for the life of me simply can't understand why there is so much venom and obvious hatred coming from their keyboards. The language and expressions some of them use ("another thieving c***) are so vitriolic that they demonstrate far more about their own characters than any of those they aim at.

I guess they are all of the GC persuasion, but are any of them actually British? Or are they Greek Cypriots who have lived in Britain? Or Greek Cypriots who have never left Cyprus? Whatever, it's easy to dismiss people who write from such an obviously polluted position.

One of the posters I've read a bit is "6ms", who is deci

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 12:30

One of the posters I've read a bit is "6ms", who is decidedly not neutral, as someone claimed recently. Every one of the numerous points he makes is GC sympathetic, and when on occasion he concedes GC culpability on a point, he follows it up immediately with a claim of TC culpability of a more serious nature. Neutral he isn't. But, and it's a big but, rational and reasonable he is, and I enjoy reading his many sallies in his own inimitable style of spelling and expression. Passion debated in this manner, in my opinion, is a really good thing.

Thanks all.

Ian.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 13:24

Dear Ian



I bet you KNEW *I'd* respond.. ;)



I have no little time for ignorant people who refer to any ethnicity of grouping in a derogatory fashion.. I'm certainly amused by your conclusions . May be I SHOULD be "worried".



In short .. I'm a bit of an "agent provocateur" - sure I like to "tease"..



Many GCs think I'm a "Turk lover", as I go to the "occupied area" and fly via Ercan / Tymbou to Turkey to holiday / do biz !



Don't forget I come from a nation that couldn't agree it's true identity, either.



I DO feel strongly about the ethnic cleansing of the many because of the actions of the few and calling it "justice".



YES, the northern part has many desolate beautiful places - esp beaches.. but they are still "unspoilt" for a very sad reason.



Hope you don't mind if I don't change ;)

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 13:38

Ian,



The difference in attitude between the TC and the GC is like chalk and cheese. The GC view is "turn the clock back, I want another go - trust me, I'm a European now" whereas the TC view seems to be " water under the bridge, lets move on from here but I wouldn't trust you further than I could throw you".



One is quite calm about it, the other can be quite rabid. I'll let you decide which is which.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 13:50

Good Post Vaughan.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 14:43

Dear "TRNC" V re msg 6



>>GC view is "turn the clock back, I want another go - trust me, I'm a European now<<







>>TC view seems to be " water under the bridge, lets move on from here but I wouldn't trust you further than I could throw you". <<



Hmm - it would even be be "funny" if it didn't omit most of the pain..





Most GCs didn't deserve to be made homeless - to lose everything - sometimes twice.. I think they might be excused for wanting to turn back time..



Most TCs ended up living in the more beautiful part of Cyprus - although many more STILL left, post the "freedom" inferred by the Turks..



If I had the choice of Episkopi or Kyrenia .. I'd rather keep things as they were..



We won't even discuss the fact that it was TCs that voted YES to change the status quo in Apr 2004 ..



Sorry, Vaughan... you weren't actually be serious ?! ;0

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 14:43

or beING serious, even...

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 14:52

Hello Ian and welcome to the Forum. I too have a place in Esentepe. You are right about the GC community and what they say about the TRNC. I too used to go to the RoC regularly and for a time I actually was naive enough to believe some of their propaganda. However, I travelled to the TRNC and educated myself. To my surprise,it was nothing like what had previously been described to me. As a result,I did my homework and bought myself a beautiful villa in a gorgeous part of the world.

It would be great to meet up some time,and we can debate the relative merits of our cricket teams over a beer or three! Regards,Iain

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 15:25

Hey Iain (is that a Celtic "Ian"?),



Thank you. That would be most enjoyable if we could manage to salvage a win from one of the remaining tests...or even if we couldn't.

My wife Emmy and I will be there for a month from around Aug 30th, and we've already been indoctrinated into the delights of the Tumba on a Friday night.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 15:34

Hi mmmmmmmm,



I have never been more serious.

TC's didn't deserve to be the victims of a pogrom and lose everything either. The fact they ended up with the better bit of the island is good luck and a coincidence of geography. Turkey intervened in the North as it was the closest bit of Cy to TR.

The GC's thought they could get away with murder (literaly) and are now furious with themselves and everyone else that they f*cked-up.

The TC view is the past is the past and lets have a better future.

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 15:56

Hi 6ms,

Yes, I thought you might, and nice to hear from you. I agree with the sentiment in your third line, although it would read better if you removed the extra "no"...

Your third-last line clearly refers to the Greek and Greek Cypriot attacks on the Turkish Cypriots prior to 1974, and you're not alone in feeling strongly about that.

But about those beautiful places, esp. beaches - I believe the word you want is "deserted" rather than "desolate", as they are anything but that! And there'd be another bunch of people who'd consider the reason they were still unspoilt as anything but sad...

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 16:22

hi rottolover,

miltiades is one of the nices people i have met on cyprus forums in general.

a real gent, and a true cypriot. i'm sure you can't have read many of his postings because he is moderate in his views.

how do you think people feel when they have been banish from returning to their own land by war and have been refugees?

feelings run high, but don't take all you read as so serious!



its a shame he has been banned from here because he is a very knowledgable guy regarding cyprus.

but here, you are only allowed the turkish extreamist view or no view atall. this is not a balanced forum.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 16:39

fire starter:



Read msg 6 by "TRNCVaughan"



Will help you get better picture of how TC s feel



If not,let me know when you are local (my profile is open)

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 16:39

Some people like to play the devil's advocate - and some people just use that as a ploy to cover their obvious dislike of the TRNC or to 'hide their pro GC bias except where there is a buck to be made or a short retreat from the "luxury" of the RoC!



Some talk about the daylight 'robbery' of the GC land by the TC in the north conveniently forgetting the history of oppression of the TC's both under the British rule and subsequent Greek 'rule'! How many TC lost their homes in the late 1950's and early 1960's because like the rule of aparteid in South Africa the TC were second class citizens in their own country and 'loaded Greeks' took land off these TC for a pittance simply because the TC were essentially forced to live in TC areas and were denied or delayed equal rights in government and the economy in general!



Those who take a 'disguised' pro GC view should ask themselves why they draw the line in 1974 and ignore the history of the island?



Balance is important - so is honesty

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 16:55

moover,

i am not saying that the tc's have not suffered, what i am saying is that to get to know cyprus you need to hear all sides. not just the one sided views of people on this forum.

as for people i have met i don't judge them on nationality.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 17:01

yorg,

i know how the tc's feel, i live with them. i don't live in the new villa estate, i live with the tc's.

so i guess i don't need you to tell me much atall.

my friends fought for this country!

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 17:02

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



Do you ever take a stance on anything or just sit on the fence?



Richard

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 17:29

Fire Starter!



I agree with you! I have lived on both sides and studied a fair bit of the history! May be it is a British trait to have an inclination to back the 'underdog'! What is irritable is that some people 'exclusively' refer to the problem as one where the TC have 'stolen' the GC land! It is at best a very simplistic view of the history of the island and of course assumes that that history started only in 1974!



To be honest, I cannot see any solution to the 'land and property' issue that will be seen as 'fair' by both sides! It is almost impossible to have an 'equitable solution' - it will be a politcal solution!



As far as the politcal situation is concerned I would bet on a 'two state solution' seems like it is quite fashionable these days (Palestine) - may be under a joint Federal government.



Turkey's value to the West has grown exponentially over the last decade and it is likely that the solution to the Cyprus issue will come only with their agreement!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 17:37

Dear Richard



re msg 19



>>Do you ever take a stance on anything or just sit on the fence<<



no chance of blisters on my ar*e, mate .. not getting it kicked might be a different thing ;)

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 17:38

Fire Starter - I too do not judge anyone by their nationality, creed or colour!



All sides have suffered and all sides have contributed to the current situation be it a tragedy or otherwise but the real chance of settlement was lost when the GC voted against the Annan plan and the EU accepted RoC accession without a resolution of the same! We are where we are - and the fact still remains that history should be looked at holistically and not just from one point in time!



There is in my humble opinion a clear difference in the attitudes between TC and GC! TC seem to take life in their stride and even after having voted for the Annan plan - and the failure of the GC to accept the same - life still goes on here in the TRNC! My experience of the GC is one of great animosity and hatred towards to TC side - I don't mean all GC, as some 25% did vote for the Annan Plan - but the vast majority still think of the TC as a lesser Cypriot!

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 17:42

The land issue is very simple to resolve. Given that in 1974 the population was approximately 30/70% in favour of the Greeks and Turkey only took 30% of the Island (never finished off the job) and in latter years GC South land was worth 4 times as much as land in the North, the Greeks take all Southern owned TC land and all TRNC is TC land. The Greeks have already taken a lot of TC land without compensation, Larnaca airport! So in real financial terms the Greeks are well ahead of the game.



Richard

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 17:43

Dear "TRNC" V

re msg 12



>>I have never been more serious<<



TC's didn't deserve to be the victims of a pogrom and lose everything either. [ no argument there ] When did two wrong ever make a right ?



>>The fact they ended up with the better bit of the island is good luck and a coincidence of geography. Turkey intervened in the North as it was the closest bit of Cy to TR. <<



But the fact remains that they you claim they ( TCs) didn't want to finish things - "I'm alright now, jack ?!" - when in Apr 2004 - they DID..



>>The GC's thought they could get away with murder (literaly) and are now furious with themselves and everyone else that they f*cked-up. <<



ER, no.. some GCs, TCs, Greeks and Turks thought they could get away with murder and ethnic cleansing - backed by the US - and were played off against each other, nicely - and the Soviets never got a sniff - but the US lost it's "secret" bases, any way

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 17:46

moover,

i have to disagree as i have friends on both sides and i don't believe that the gc's see the tc's as lesser cypriots.

they are all cypriots is the bottom line.

most gc's i speak with have issues with turkey not the trnc or tc's.

i think a lot of it is based on education, those more educated don't have such extreme views as those less educated.

again age plays a big part, as most older cypriots want an end to this stupidity and to get on with their lives.

my gc friends visit me, in our tc village and are always made most welcome.

there is only a problem when people create one.

its time to move on, racism in any shape or form is not acceptable from anyone in this day and age.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 17:56

Dear Moover321



re msg 22



>>My experience of the GC is one of great animosity and hatred towards to TC side <<



..and they talk about some "GC propaganda m/c ?!" ;)



As someone who spent a lot of time having doors nearly closed in my face by GCs - and clearly didn't do a very good job hoping to explain why they should vote YES - I think you are making a VERY generalised, simplistic and completely wrong assessment .



GCs voted no to Annan, in the main, because



1/ They did not trust TURKEY - not because they didn't trust TCs - TR had already not paid up in ECHR cases for loss of use - an oft quoted reason to prove lack of cred - which I couldn't counter.



2/ They weren't going to take possession of their houses / land - despite ECHR cases that confirmed they still owned them - if they were the owner in July 74 - they still were.



3/ They elected a "hard man" ( Liealotopoulos ) -who fibbed that he could get a better deal .

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 18:00

Dear R/lover

re msg 13



>> I believe the word you want is "deserted" rather than "desolate", as they are anything but that! And there'd be another bunch of people who'd consider the reason they were still unspoilt as anything but sad..<<



My BAD.. you are correct - I MEANT Deserted.. I believe you took my sentence, " but they are still "unspoilt" for a very sad reason. " out of context - sad as in the history leading to this surreality - the quietness , lack of tourists..

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 18:02

Yes, as usual mmmmmm you have the inside tract on every GC! I said, if you care to read in 'my experience' I guess we should all bow down to your 'experience' and infinite knowledge on all things! perhaps, just for once you can say well, that is an opinion based on your experience and yes, there are some GC who feel this way - rather then try and give us your opinion dressed up as 'fact'!

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 18:09

Fire Starter - you can disagee all you want! I can only relate MY EXPERIENCE and of course your friends though many, I am sure cannot be a representative sample of any real scientific value!



I totally agree, there should be no room for any kind of racisim, but equally, there should be HONESTY on all sides and one persons experience be it mine or yours cannot be a FACT!



I know of many GC who have said things to me about TC which I took great objection to at the time and in such colourful language that it could not be possibly repeated here!



Let's agree to disagree as the GC you know are like you and me - fair mined and balanced and many of those I have interacted with were anything but fair and balanced. Neither can be regarded as fact - can it?

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 18:13

mmmmmm : Question for you - Did the history of this island and property ownership only start in 1974 as you seem to imply in almost all of your postings regarding property issues in the TRNC and RoC?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
31/07/2009 19:51

re 28 / 31

moover321



Happy to concede that your experience is yours.



re property - I feel that an aggrieved TC can take his case to the RoC and if he doesn't get satisfaction - he / she should go to the ECHR - you must have missed that



Mind you that should apply to GCs, Armenians, etc. who lost their places in the sixties.. but WHO would they sue ?

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 06:34

mmmmmm - Glad to know that you can be humble!



As far as the property situation is concerned you simply do not get it, do you? I am not talking about the property situation post 1974, but the de facto discrimination which was exercised against the TC by the British and the GC in the 1950's and 1960's! Seems that you believe the property issues of the island history only started in 1974! A somewhat myopic view in my considered opinion!



And finally, no I did not miss the fact that TC can take their case to the ECHR but you miss one point in your comment you need to exhaust local remedies first and as the recognised court internationally is the RoC do you believe a TC is likely to get a fair hearing?



Sure the Armenians et al should also be included in the 1950' / 1960's issues but you make the exact point - the fact that there is no effective remedy means that justice will be denied!



By the way it was the GC and the British who perpetrated the discrimination against the TC!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 08:28

Dear Moover321



As I can do "humble", will you do "paying attention" ?!



IF you did that, you'd realise I did mean the period post independence up to July 74..



>>Seems that you believe the property issues of the island history only started in 1974! A somewhat myopic view in my considered opinion! <<



I'm happy to accept your apology any time ..





>>no I did not miss the fact that TC can take their case to the ECHR but you miss one point in your comment you need to exhaust local remedies first and as the recognised court internationally is the RoC do you believe a TC is likely to get a fair hearing? <<



AGAIN, you must have missed that I have often said a TC should contest the six month "residency" in rump RoC rule pre stating a claim for restitution - and then go to the ECHR..



Might I ask you.. did the right exist for TCs to claim restitution as a result of ECHR pressure ? .. You know it didn't.. Can we say this for GCs?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 08:35

cont -



>>Sure the Armenians et al should also be included in the 1950' / 1960's issues but you make the exact point - the fact that there is no effective remedy means that justice will be denied! <<



Well, as the RoC still exists there is a mechanism for forcibly displaced TCs to sue.. not exactly "fair" is it?



>>By the way it was the GC and the British who perpetrated the discrimination against the TC!<<



Hmm, Can you offer examples to back this contention? There is no doubt the British played upon "differences" that existed - to polarise - when it looked like they might lose the bases to a prolonged and even violent independence claim which *could* have led to the Soviets gaining a foothold in Cyprus.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 12:32

TRNCV msg 12 ....well put ! A very accurate description of the outcomes. So glad we didn't end up with Limassol and Ayia Napa

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 12:37

FS Msg 25....I have been to both sides of the island on many occasions. I prefer the TRNC as it is relatively unspoilt and the people are far less bigoted. The GC's never fail to miss an opportunity to dig up the past and somehow transport it to the present.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 13:06

Plectrum...............and your point is ?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 15:30

msg25 firestarter, is that why you called us all scum on the souths forum ??????????? you,ve got more faces than the town clock ,and you are a gc sympathiser ,

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 15:58

rowlo:

I'm glad ,I'm not the only one being aware of this.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 16:47

keep watching yorgozlu, lots of us are aware , long live kktc.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 17:01

Plectrum msg42



Sad thing is

Still not enough for GCs

Arthur


Joined: 04/11/2008
Posts: 687

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 17:07

I don't understand msg 14- the GC viewpoint has been and still is being put by various people. I have viewed some of the GC sympathetic sites andto say that they're strident would be an understatement [somewhere to the right of Ghengis Khan and Adolf Hitler].



As for our Antipodean friend Rottolover, this whinging Pom would be delighted to have a few beers, we're over from mid September, I'll e-mail you off line when I'm back at work Monday

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 17:11

Arthur



You forgot Mussolini, Pol Pot and me!



Richard

Arthur


Joined: 04/11/2008
Posts: 687

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 19:02

You're right Richard, and I also forgot Generals Franco, Pinochet and Galtieri.



Personally, I'd have linked you more with Silvio Berlusconi [in a way, a bit of a compliment!!]

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 19:27

Arthur



You must have a circular dining table at home with a few 'sirs' looking after your daily needs!



Richard

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 21:33

mmmmmm: You can play with words as much as you like to prove you have a valid argument - I regret I beg to differ! You have your view point which I can respect but cannot agree with!



I believe from your various postings your colours are truly tied to the GC mast!



I doubt if this is only my opinion - it seems a fair number of others who have read your rants and at times what appear to be rational arguments but when examined it is clear that you sincerely believe that the GC got a bad deal with the Turkish invasion and subsequent partition!



I simply disagree with that contention!



As for the British partisanship towards the GC - I suggest you simply read the history! A leopard cannot change its spots and all and sundry are aware of how the British played off one aginst the other throughout the Empire - and Cyprus was no exception!



What happend here in Cyprus is a tragedy - for both GC and TC - Period!



That's my last word on this subject!

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
01/08/2009 23:56

Following msg 48.



I must agree with Moover. mmmmm is clearly sometimes confusing as to his line of support.

It wouls appear that he has friends on both sides. Supports both sides and is best friends to everyone North and South of the border.

The mere thought of this God given attribute begs belief considering the clear animosity ,depending on whoose wicket he is batting on that particular day, that is relayed in some of his posts.

These, essentially, political debates cannot afford anyone to take the hippyish I love everyone stance.





It is my view that Mark often confuses even himself as to where his symathy and support lies. The result of this is his often tiresome ranting over small failures of insignificant historical, political or legal fact, thus avoiding the real issues of resolution, settlement and progress.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 00:55

Worth a read





http://www.brtk.cc/index.php/lang/en/cat/2/news/52903

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 01:46

Plectrum Msg 42........how sad....you think it all boils down to money! You have the mind of a mouse.......knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers....Tennyson. If you are going to start your education,he would be a good literary starting point.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 05:31

Iain, he has the mind of a "Pike".... bless the miss guided fool.



Here in North London the views of most GC's are that the TC's are filth and thieves. TC,s just want to be left alone in their safe haven.



No remorse from GC,s for their actions that caused Turkey to seperate the Island......If they were more sincere and could be trusted then a united Island may be a possibility......IF.

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 05:47

Thank you to all who have posted on this topic in an attempt to explain the difference between the polarised attitudes of the two divide camps. It seems they are destined to remain divided.

Clearly, the language and intent posted on other forums by people like firestarter and miltiades show a very strong level of hatred for those of us who are sympathetic to the TC cause, and it seems especially for those of us who have purchased properties in TRNC. As I said, it paints them in the lowest of lights rather than any of their targets.

Moover et al are certainly correct about Cyprus being a tragedy. But from all that I've now read (including "The Cyprus Conspiracy", 6ms), there WAS a clear campaign of eradication of TCs by GCs and mainland Greeks, orchestrated by Makarios and weapons-funded by the G.O.church, which would have succeeded had it not been for the eventual Turkish invasion. And history shows to the victor goes the spoils. Has a victor ever given back property to a vanquished?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 10:21

re 48 Moover321



>>I believe from your various postings your colours are truly tied to the GC mast! <<



How convenient.. However, if you wish prove that erroneous conclusion you will have to do better than a couple of unsubstantiated references and then:



>>That's my last word on this subject!<<



Was the question:



>>Might I ask you.. did the right exist for TCs to claim restitution as a result of ECHR pressure ? .. << too awkward for you to answer ?



>>GC got a bad deal with the Turkish invasion and subsequent partition! <<

Most *Cypriots* did and Armenians, Maronites and even UK subjects. I suppose the ECHR is biased. too ? It wasn't so "great" for TCs, too, as they continued to leave post July 74 and there is a degree of resentment of Turkification and knowing TCs STILL don't control their destiny.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 10:25

(cont) from 54



>>As for the British partisanship towards the GC - I suggest you simply read the history! A leopard cannot change its spots and all and sundry are aware of how the British played off one aginst the other throughout the Empire - and Cyprus was no exception! <<



You seem now to be changing your original content - British bias to the GCs... You won't find me is disagreement re "Divide and Rule" - but ( and thanks I do read History books and from lots of perspectives) I don't perceive any overall bias to either ethnicity..



Could you please site examples?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 10:36

Waz / Warren



re msg 49



>>It is my view that Mark often confuses even himself as to where his symathy and support lies. The result of this is his often tiresome ranting over small failures of insignificant historical, political or legal fact, thus avoiding the real issues of resolution, settlement and progress.<<



Oh Warren,



You would do better to address your own "problem" with an inability to see that the current "surreal" situation is unsustainable for TCs AND GCs. It is clear that recent ECHR findings "surprised" you.







When the ECHR ruled that TR had a chance at a providing a local remedy, I wonder what you said , then ?



When it starts ruling re some inadequencies re the rights of TCs to have to be "resident" in the "rump" RoC - what WILL you say?



Now either the ECHR is biased or ...

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 10:56

Hey 6ms,

In the past in WA, over many years, I tried on a number of occasions to agitate for all the social, football and political commentators who had regular gigs on radio or TV to declare their particular leanings (read "bias"), and to the credit of some, they did, immediately achieving far more credibility.

When Moover believed "your colours are truly tied to the GC mast", you replied it was an "erroneous conclusion".

So, as I'm wont to do in such circumstances, I ask you to be straight up and declare your own personal position, just with whom it is you are in sympathy, and why.

Many of the rest of us on this board have. I believe it engenders more honesty in ensuing debate.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 13:14

mmmmm

Thank you for your comments.

I am not at all suprised at the ECHR findings. It is just a shame that this Court fails to acknowledge the disadvantage rendered upon the TRNC by its unjust actions. The civil litigation route that the ROC has chosen to inflict further exclusion upon the TRNC is hardly conjusive to a settlement.



I think that you are very much undersetimating the number of certainly TC that have a desire to move back to historical memories in the South. People have in the vast moved on and wild continue to do so. This is certainly very sustainable. The situation is by no means surreal. You should visit the TRNC and see for yourself the vibrant young, cosmopolitan and commited community.

The TRNC is far too well established, supported and protected for the ECHR or the ROC to topple.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 13:38

rowlo,

if you earwig on other peoples conversations and don't know the people they are talking to, you could just get the wrong end of the stick.

but if the scum cap fits, wear it.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 13:42

Dear Rottolover re 57



About every three months, or so, I find a poster who asks me this question - as if it is the first time :(



Could you TRY and find the answer, and WHY - It's on here somewhere - and more than once - and if not I will try and look it up myself... I hardly think it warrants a "sticky" - but the number of times it gets asked *I* do... !



Also, it always seems to get asked at weekends ! ...



>>Many of the rest of us on this board have. I believe it engenders more honesty in ensuing debate.<<



WHEN you find the answer to this opt asked Q - I hope you might also be as "direct" and respond appropriately !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 13:51

Dear Warren re msg 58



>>I am not at all suprised at the ECHR findings.<<



Sighs - HOW MANY times... Please do check what you say, as even I don't "enjoy" demonstrating your increasing propensity to inaccuracy.. HINT .. a recent ruling by the IPC...



>>TRNC is far too well established, supported and protected for the ECHR or the ROC to topple.<<



Hmm, like the ECHR can "topple" something it doesn't even recognise?...



Warren - the ECHR realise there are TCs elected to run a "vessel" of Turkey's creation - it even recognised the decisions of it's "judiciary system" when GCs claimed they suffered HR breaches re Green Line protests.





Very few folk on here don't want to see TCs have REAL autonomy - they DO want that to be internationally recognised... you are beginning to sound a mite like some sort of hysterical propaganda machine..

Aysesdaddy



Joined: 21/03/2009
Posts: 392

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 14:53

My Father went to the South on holiday and was amazed at the amount of propaganda that was aimed at the tourists, especially on the organised coach tours. On one of these he actually told the courier to shut up, because, having been to the North as well, he knew different. While attitudes remain like this, a solution to the problem seems a long way away. I think things will only change when new generations grow up without the baggage of the past.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 14:56

do the tourists actually want to hear it anyway?

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 16:22

Compare the South siding Cyprus Forum with the North siding Cyprus 44.one can deduce that the tone is reflected by the audience. A GC or sympathiser on Cyprus 44 wants to hug a Turk,that same GC or sypathiser on Cyprus Forum wants to shoot a turk.

Thats just the way it is,and not much use figuring out why.

I might be abit unfair, the reason why Cyprus 44 might be more of a debating forum as opposed to a hating forum,could be down to insulting language not being allowed.

Do all these GC mothers not know their boys and girls use sweary wordies.



There are several on this site who appear to offer reasonable debate ,but turn into enraged bigots on the other site.

Maybe they could offer an explanation.What is the true you ,and what will be the true you if ROC and TRNC come together.

Is it a case of ,TC audience ,trust us we love you,so join us.

For a GC audience, We will try and hide our true feelings till we get control

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 16:58

Dear sixms, re message 60...



"About every three months, or so, I find a poster who asks me this question - as if it is the first time :( "



It's the first time for me, mate, and I'm buggered if I can be bothered searching through all the postings on this board for something you may have written 3 months ago...You could simply have been a little more courteous and repeated it in half the space you used for all that condescending blather.



Don't bother yourself. I merely hoped you'd be prepared to be straight up. Seems you can't.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 19:00

mmmmm.

No.... no propoganda machine. simple realisation of the true situation.

Perhaps the TRNC does not exhist at all. I'm sure the ECHR will be able to tell us the answer to that.



Your reference to guess work and clues makes you sound like some sort of quiz show host.



Your reference to other posters simply indicate your insecurity in what you portray.

I am very happy to debate with you Mark but your style and structure make for very school boy like antics.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 23:37

Girne 29, How true it is.



I have looked on the south site several times. Some real twisted and bitter people on it...some come on this site to cause bother and see how long they can last till they are thrown off. They then use some choice language on the south forum of how they have been mis treated by the moderators!!



Funny how brits can turn on each other.....the ones that live in the north and are being two faced to their TC neighbours. Also the lonely ones that are banned and keep coming back under different names.



Nothing will change.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
02/08/2009 23:50

If you had met either of these.......Nice one pike....good to see you are sticking up for your chums. I'm sure someone somewhere would say you are a nice person. (fingers down the throat)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 00:16

Dear RL



re msg 65



>>I'm buggered if I can be bothered searching through all the postings on this board for something you may have written 3 months ago<<



Well, it can't be too important, then..



>>You could simply have been a little more courteous and repeated it in half the space you used for all that condescending blather. <<



No - I was NOT being discourteous, and suggest you are a little too quick to assume..



In short - and I even think I said this in the last few days..



Pro TC side as a youth, ambivalent until I came to CY for biz reasons, can see both sides, AND understand that Cypriots in general were "used" - esp by the US, and played off against each other by the UK.



Don't think TR should have stayed, nor imported mainlanders - esp. as one of the reasons was to DELIBERATELY alter the population balance and this even upset many TCs into leaving.



Finally, allowing the selling - for private gain - of disputed land - MADNESS

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 00:27

Dear Waz / Warren , re msg 66



Sadly, you didn't ACTUALLY respond to any of my points - just through in "emotion"..



Let's try again..



you say TCs have "moved on" - well that's fine.. but they "moved on" -in property, mostly, still legally - as deemed by the outside world (apart from TR ) - owned by someone else.



Sure following forced etnic cleansing TCs and GCs started living in each others property, but more GCs were made completely homeless.



The Gc admin says that it hasn't allowed a TC property / land to be sold for private gain...



You say "move on"



How "convenient ", I say.



You are "shocked" when T's IPC pays up BIG money to a GC who has demonstrated their HR were abused - by not having access to their property, restores some ownership and pays BIG compo for the loss of the land.



Let's be honest, here.. if the "rump" RoC were "smart" - they would be encouraging GCs to file cases and I'll bet a settlement would be closer..

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 00:29

See below from Eric seans, Plectrum, Pikey and all the other names he has used on this forum wrote on the cyprus-forum. Seems the word of the month from Miltedes for decent people is "Plonkers" I like the "come and go" bit from Pikey.....more like " I near enough live on the 44 forum" thousands of posting's on this site in different names....how sad....What a PLONKER!i



Milti,



I think a big attraction for many of them is they can be openly racist in a racist enclave while patting their pet natives/stolen goods suppliers on the head. They need someone to hate other than themselves or their cheapjack neighbours from hell. They are fundimentally immoral, dishonest and/or ignorant. There are a few exceptions to the rule mind you, but they tend to be hard to find. mmmmm's trying reverse psychology I reckon by being polite to the morons. I just come and go on there.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 00:37

Plectrum .

"Rottolover said: "Clearly, the language and intent posted on other forums by people like firestarter and miltiades show a very strong level of hatred for those of us who are sympathetic to the TC cause."







"If you had ever met either of these people you would hopefully realise how mistaken you are. "





Mistaken about what .If you call me a turkish or brit scum bag on the internet how would I realise I was mistaken about what you said when I meet you. By mistaken do you mean someone else makes the comments but uses other peoples names.That is impossible as you have to log in.



They should be honest and use that language all the time.

On another point ,you mention the greeks wanting their houses back and that is why they insult and swear so much. If thats the case why do some on your site use the same wordsabout Turks as well .Its much more than 1974, I think some want the Turks to be equal in ROC like the blacks were equal in USA, or Catholics were in N.I.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 01:21

mmmmmmm

Both GC and TC have moved on from the dark days of the 60,s. Yes there have been adjustments, some painfull, in territory and property issues. The fact is however, peace prevails. In my view this is guaranteed by the Turkish army. Ther are,still unfortunately some, particularly GC who would happily return to armed conflict.



Ok .you want to tit for tat compare who has been the goodies and the badies. This is certainly not going to resolve the problems. The GC have no patent upon suffering, hardship or sufference of ethnic violence.



I have no issue at all twith Turkey paying out money for compensation if it buys peace and another GC is happy with his lot. At least that particular person can then move on with his life and let his Northern neighbour do likewise.



Any settlement based upon this form of buy off is fine by me. It is the political mongers that want more. They cannot and will not accept the TRNC. They remain bitter and sad. I am sorry for these people.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 02:44

Dear Waz,



re 75



You STILL don't get it, and I will keep on responding to your emotional responses with FACT.



>> In my view this [peace ] is guaranteed by the Turkish army. Ther are,still unfortunately some, particularly GC who would happily return to armed conflict. <<



Warren, if the UN thought there was going to be a war, they'd hardly be reducing numbers. IF you REALLY knew what you were talking about you'd know that many's a TC realise that TR WANT to keep an army and a degree of control over the island.. and TC welfare isn't the priority.. This has been posted on here by a "most helpful member" who is a TC..



>>ok .you want to tit for tat compare who has been the goodies and the badies. This is certainly not going to resolve the problems.<<



Suggest you look at the flow of this thread, and your contributions as to who is "guilty" of this..



" re "TRNC" non-acceptance by sad people.. "Bitter"?? WHO?!... ECHR, UN, EU.. ??? OMG..

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 05:20

Dear sixems,



Certainly it's not as important to me as it clearly is to you.



I asked you to be straight up and declare your leaning, and the best you could come up with was "Pro TC side as a youth, ambivalent until I came to CY for biz reasons, can see both sides", which is a particularly anaemic way of claiming that you're neutral. What nonsense. You are now firmly ensconced in the ranks of all commentators who claim neutrality but are plainly sitting on one side of the coin.



Do you have family or friends who are Greek or GC, or Greek or GC sympathisers?

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 05:21

With regard to your message 76, I find it hard to accept that you actually believe what you write! Your circumlocutory style of argument is rambling, evasive and poorly expressed. Your obfuscation would do a politician proud. You claimed that "if the UN thought there was going to be a war, they'd hardly be reducing numbers"! That's as incredible as it is hilarious! The UN hasn't thought there was going to be a war for 35 years, PRECISELY because of the presence of the Turkish troops. Of course they're reducing numbers. If they thought there was going to be a war, why would they increase them? To sit around and watch, as per normal?

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 05:22

You also claim that "TR WANT to keep an army and a degree of control over the island.. and TC welfare isn't the priority". Of course the TR wants to keep an army there, for the same reason it's been there for 35 years...to keep the peace! Which has been 100% successful! But a "degree of control over the island"?? I think you mean over the NORTHERN part of the island, surely? And if TC welfare comes behind the priority of Turkish security in the Med, so what? TC welfare is still a priority for TCs, as it is for all who now live in peace in the TR.

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 05:23

You don't respond with "FACT" mate, you respond with your own brand of emotional opinion. And your last line typifies the poor quality of your expression..."bitter" is a feeling which can only be experienced by, believe it or not, people. Not vague, amorphous bodies such as the ECHR, UN or EU. OMG!! And the people in question here are clearly those GCs who won't let go.

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 05:43

mmmmmm!



Your arguments would be laughable if they were not concerning such a serious and sad subject!



The ONLY fact in any of your points is that you dress up your own bias opinion as fact!



And in case you will retort that in my last posting I said this was my last word on the subject - I just want you to know that this posting is about your posting opinion as fact and nothing more!



Perhaps you would do well to actually understand how the ECHR actually operates before making so called statements of fact which ae nothing but conjecture and piffle!

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 05:57

mmmmmm!



It seems that the only person who knows everything about anything and yet actually nothing that is remotely connected to fact is you!



Do yourself a favour - first do some research, second separate fact from opinion and third accept that as informed as you claim to be you do not have a monopoly on the truth about Cyprus and its history let alone a grasp of the realities that exist on the ground!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 10:07

Dear RL



re msg 77



I'm not sorry you aren't "happy " with my answer, and as to the question re GC/ Greek friends - of course - but you forgot TR and TC friends, too ;)



As to relatives - NO .. but AGAIN.. I got asked and answered this last week, by RobNJo, too ..



I think it is *hilarious* that you even ask..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 10:48

Dear Moover321



re 82



>>Do yourself a favour - first do some research, second separate fact from opinion and third accept that as informed as you claim to be you do not have a monopoly on the truth about Cyprus and its history let alone a grasp of the realities that exist on the ground!<<



1/ I did and do



2/ I'll try, but I believe I do - I think it is more about my conclusion you have a "problem " with... The "funny" thing is they aren't so different from the ECHR ones. So do you think they are biased?



3/ Sorry, not about to stop pointing out bias / inaccuracies / to make you "happy" ..



RL 78-80



UN - if only the Greeks and Turks had allowed them to do the job they agreed to mandate to 'em.. you "conveniently" forget that..



TR " Peace" - as ever you forget that this "peace" cost live BIG time in a concentrated period..



FACT / emotion: ..use of "bitter" Ah, I see you really DON'T pay attention - suggest you have a chat with Waz/ Warren !

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 14:21

Sixems, I "conveniently" forget nothing. The UN, as always, simply watched while Cyprus burned, and did nothing to stop the slaughter of the TCs over more than a decade. The "Peace" you refer to, just the last 35 years, cost lives big time in a concentrated period, most of them GC lives in a matter of weeks. That's the kind of thing that happens when war breaks out. "As ever you forget..."? You really are very presumptuous, and very wrong.



The way you throw words out with little thought of construction or clarity does your arguments little service. But they are beginning to demonstrate familiar themes to me, best summarised by words like 'ego', arrogance' and 'condescension'.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 14:31

Plectrum,Msg 67, masters degree then PhD..you do yourself a disservice,my poorly educated friend. I have two degrees and countless postgraduate diplomas in subjects that really require some degree of cerebration...you will probably need to look that one up. Everyone knows that REAL doctors are MB. ChB and not the 10 minute/week of work that most masters and PhD theses are over 12 months. To get into medical school alone is beyond anything a mere masters degree has to offer...... I should know....I am a tutor at Manchester and we are very selective about the quality of degree and whether it is first class or not!

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 14:58

6m's ! Try as hard as you want but you know as do the rest of us reading your comments that you are unashamedly pro GC and whils paying lip service to the TC perspective by announcing you have TC friends your OPINIONS are exactly that OPINIONS - NOT FACT!



You simply do not get it and I doubt if you ever will - history is and always has been one of perspective and your perspective is to see the TRNC through the GC lens of history! Is it any wonder you have a distorted view of what has happened on this island when you simply choose your starting point as 1974!



Good luck in the GC south! Something tells me that no matter what anyone says here, you will not accept the reality on the ground! I would guess by year end you will be eating a lot of humble pie!

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 15:06

6m's!



So you did some research and still came up with 2=2 =5



Go back to school.



Research is not reading some GC propaganda



Separating fact from opinion means actually knowing the difference!



Do you actually understand the term 'realities on the ground'?

Try to google it - it may help! Realities on the ground mean for example, inter alia, 30,000 Turkish troops in the TRNC; Turkish strategic importance to the USA and EU!



Hard to believe you actually thrill yourself with your obvious arrogance or should that be ignorance?



Who knows....and who cares!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 15:23

Dear RL



re 85

>>The UN, as always, simply watched while Cyprus burned, and did nothing to stop the slaughter of the TCs over more than a decade.<<



The UN also struggled to stop clandestine shipment of arms fro both ethnicities and saw gross infringements by Greece and TR - again you conventiently forget.



>>The way you throw words out with little thought of construction or clarity does your arguments little service. But they are beginning to demonstrate familiar themes to me, best summarised by words like 'ego', arrogance' and 'condescension'.<<



Sadly, in your case, due to the points you avoid, the latter could well be levelled at me in relation to some of your recent posts..

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 16:19

Seems like RL has worked you out 6m's just like the rest of us have!

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 16:40

Is it me,....



or is m&m's getting even more incoherent in his replies??







None of them seem to make any sense.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 16:59

Rob it's not you!



I tried a while ago to get mmmmmm's to take a break from the cyprus issues....he is far to entrenched in it now. I think he is not a bad chap and I worry for him.

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 17:11

No Rob, you're spot on. That last response of sixems to the quote directly above it is a classic example of what I was referring to.



I have a feeling he probably meant to say "by me" rather than "at me", but I couldn't swear to it. His constructions are becoming progressively more disjointed.



I agree, Tiggy, he needs a break...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 17:16

Dear RL , RobnJo and Tiggy



It is VERY nice of you to suggest I need a break - When I take one it will be go sailing on the turquoise coast of Turkey and then Cyprus ;)



Sadly that won't be just yet, Visas permitting - so "forgive me" - unless you are suggesting an "enforced break"...

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 21:53

mmmmmm msg 76.

Thank you for your comments.

Fortunately there is only a small minority of little significance that would support a return to armed conflict. I have not suggested that there would be and indeed I do not think there will be.

You have clearly mistaken my post which is indeed very clear. I really think that you post so much it becomes second nature for you to disagree...regardless.

The Turkish Army remain in control. The TRNC and TCs need protection from the ROC.

It is a fact that the "legitimate" government of the whole Island is totally GC. It is a fact that the military force upon the Island is the Turkish Army..supporting the Turkish right to provide gaurantee to TCs.

One power balances out the other. The result....A frustrated state of peace.

dustyrhodes


Joined: 26/06/2009
Posts: 19

Message Posted:
03/08/2009 22:49

Peace & reconciliation are concepts alien to the vast majority of people in the South-I would like to think that there are reasonable people out there, but I personally, honestly haven't met anyone there who is prepared to adopt a conciliatory stance. I've had my fill of GC's telling me how much they hate Turks-not Turkish Cypriots, Turks. How they wouldn't eat any food prepared by them, trust them etc etc-then you ask, have you met a Turk? No. How do you unpick the rabid biotry of the last 50 years, the macho posing & preaching from the pulpit? Never has a culture country needed to get over it and move on as badly as Greece.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
04/08/2009 00:19

Plectrum Msg 42........how sad....you think it all boils down to money! You have the mind of a mouse.......knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers....Tennyson. If you are going to start your education,he would be a good literary starting point.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/08/2009 11:51

re 95 Waz.. HI !!



As usual, you just don't respond to Specifics..



1/ Nothing re: >> "TRNC" non-acceptance by sad people.. "Bitter"?? WHO?!... ECHR, UN, EU.. ??? OMG.. <<



2/ Nothing re specific quotes by TCs re Turkey's REAL motivation not having anything to do with TC welfare..

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
05/08/2009 12:01

Plectrum....get over yourself...you pseudoeducated person....Masters indeed !

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
05/08/2009 12:13

Question, If you have a Masters in Child Psychology, does that mean you are on the same wave length as a 10 year old ??

Secondly, who stated you were qualified for that position, an 11 year old ???



I once turned down an offer of some company from a psychologist in a bar and she then analysed me for 30 minutes to tell me why I had not been interested in her advances. I will give her some credit though we agreed at the end of the analyses that it would never have worked, I doubt if her final analysis was the same as mine however I had not changed from the start of the whole experience, I still could tell but now had it confirmed that she was a pain in the ass !!



Now all you Psycho's "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war" Trembling Javelin or something like that !!!

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
05/08/2009 14:11

Paul...it could mean that you just didn't fancy her !

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
05/08/2009 14:23

proger1 Msg 96



Last part of your second paragraph, that's exactly what she was probably looking for!



Richard

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
05/08/2009 15:20

Iain, I think you might be on to something. All I remember is seeing her through the bottom of a pint glass and then pretending to be german so she would not talk to me, that of course was the start of the analysis.

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
05/08/2009 15:21

Richard, do you mean the confirmation or the pain in the ass part ??

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
13/08/2009 16:08

Someone earlier said that the GCs dont dislike the TCs only the Turks.

If that were true why did they kill so many TCs prior to 74?

Simple question so has anyone got a simple answer?



On a more basic level I like TRNC as it is, not in the EEC. So Nick, realise you got found out and you lost. Put up and shut up and let anyone living on any land north of the border get on with enjoying what is now theirs.... not yours anymore Nick!

My house not far from the Welsh border probably belonged to some indiginous Celt but he hasnt been back and asked for it!



Hope this gives the usual sanctimoious bastards a bit more to moan about.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
13/08/2009 16:15

There is nothing better than saying it how it is breezyboy.Unfortunatly "the truth"will hurt again.



But I have a tatoo that reads "f**k'em"on my thumb!

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
14/08/2009 11:24

Thanks Yorgozlu

No takers on the simple answer yet then!