Will this be the next GC blow to the TRNC?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 19:25

Knowing that the South is never slow to take advantage of EU laws & procedures to disadvantage the TRNC & anyone who has anything to do with it, will they now use their criminal law, to dangerous effect?



If they charge a UK citizen with their criminal offence of buying land in the North, could they then have that person extradited from the UK (or any EU country) to stand trial in ROC? Would the mere threat of that be another death blow to the TRNC economy?



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6038038/Hundreds-of-Britons-will-be-extradited-for-minor-crimes-under-new-rules.html



Please don't shoot the messenger. I just point out what the NC government must know about already.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 19:37

Hector ..nice piece of scaremongering that.At this moment in time they could not do that until at least the final outcome of the Orams case...

BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 19:44

They can do this already but only if you purchased/sold/rented property since they changed their law sometime in 2006.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 19:46

BillBarnacle.....I suspect that if they COULD do it,then they already would have !



Having said that , we haven't heard from Clarets for a while on here !

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 19:55

Due to the political sensitivity surrounding the GC land debacle, and depending on the outcome of the Orams' case, only then will we have some idea of whether the British courts will grant extradition orders for British people who have bought 'Ech' property. However, if they do, and a precedent is established, even by the sample extradition of one person, one shudders to think of the consequences. Looking from a political standpoint, I think that the enactment of such legislation in the case of Cyprus would be very unwise, considering that Brussells needs to be nurturing good relations with Turkey, certainly not undermining them any further.



And, of course, TRNC would be perfectly within its rights to do likewise to RoC - 'What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander!'

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 20:01

Coachie

As I said, don't shoot the messenger, 'nice piece of scaremongering that.' Have you actually read the Daily Telegraph article and digested the ramifications? You may not have done but I bet others have. This has nothing to do with the outcome of the Orams case, that's a civil claim and they purchased before the criminal law came into being.



This new procedure now brings into play minor offences from next year. Am I to take it that we don't believe that the GC's won't take advantage of it?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 20:03

"From April, however, once Britain officially joins the system, officials estimate that between 1,050 and 1,700 people a year will be extradited, many for lesser offences, such as minor drugs crimes, drunkenness, driving offences and petty theft.



Mr Grieve said: “The European Arrest Warrant was introduced to fast-tack extradition of terrorist suspects, but has expanded well beyond that. “It allows British citizens to be whisked away to face trial for things that are not criminal in this country, on limited evidence, and in countries with lower standards of justice than in Britain.



“If the Government is signing up to plans to increase the use of the warrant, it will only magnify the risk of British citizens falling victim of miscarriages of justice.”



Can anyone see what I can see as to what the GC's will do with this? I'm afraid, very afraid.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 20:29

Hector: As I wrote: 'TRNC would be perfectly within its rights to do likewise to RoC...'



For instance, the Brits that bought my house in Paphos also had bought an apartment in Moutallos, in a recently GC built *block on, indisputably, Turkish Cypriot land.



*That block doesn't even conform to their own shoddy GC building regulations!

gates


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 20:32

it took them long enough to get a majour criminal back who did the same here as he did in england and now he is trying to sue the goverment hector are you sure , one you would be talking about is a drug dealer or a person wanted by any uk duristdiction . shall we all quiver re this news or have a great big laugh as next thing is all the people that voted in labour will get a free years property tax cose if he gets in again you wont be able to pay your local tax

Dusterbruce


Joined: 03/08/2007
Posts: 1125

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 20:35

So if the GC do start taking EU citizens to court for buying/renting property or land in the North does this mean that arrest warrants could be served if a 'guilty' person lands at Larnaca/Paphos or even crosses the border to go shopping?

If the GC's do start taking this action will you all continue to support their economy by shopping in the south or flying there?

LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 20:47

Why dont people want this EU arrest warrant. If you've ever voted tory,labour or lib dem then you are getting what you voted for as all 3 of these parties advocate our continued subsidiarity to the EU in Brussels

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 21:22

How about forgetting the politics for a moment (difficult I know) and concentrating on what this will mean to EU citizens who fall foul of the criminal law in the south bearing in mind that according to Mr Grieve, Shadow Justice Secretary, it doesn't have to be a criminal offence elsewhere i.e. in the UK?



It may be unpalatable to even think about but I think it should be discussed. If I'm wrong, then please tell me, I hope I am.

Joe Soap


Joined: 17/10/2008
Posts: 170

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 21:35

I would like clarification on this please.



If a British citizen, who owns property on exchange land in the North, visits the South then can he be arrested and charged with say "Stealing" if he visits the UKand may be deported to the South?



What happens if he travels direct from the north to the south? Will he be arrested and charged with stealing?



Do you think this might deter shopping trips to the south, and perhaps travel to/from Larnica airport?.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 23:07

Hector ..I read the whole article and the way I see it is is only applicable to EU countries.OK ROC is EU but TRNC is not, so how do they impose a ruling in the south to apply in the North.The article does not even give any precendent on this particular item but it does with regards to minor infringements ,drink,driving,fighting etc.I dont think your situation in TRNC would even be considered...

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 23:29

what a load of bolox , you lot are losing the plot if you think you are going to get arrested because you own a plot in the trnc by the gc authoroties when you cross over the green line .



get real for gods sake

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 23:33

Coachie

The south, through Mr Apostilides in the Orams civil case, have made a huge point re the dangers of a non TRNC domiciled EU citizen buying 'exchange land' in the north. That being sued in the South and the judgement being enforced in that persons home EU country. In the Orams case they must pay the ordered compensation or face the bailiffs in the UK. Much publicity and grinding of teeth amongst those affected. Final outcome still awaited and debated.



Now, from next April the south could charge a non TRNC domiciled EU citizen i.e. British, who has bought a property on 'exchange' land since the law was passed in 2006. Find them guilty (in their absence?) and issue a European arrest warrant. They could then ask that the person be arrested under the warrant i.e. in the UK and ask for their extradition to the RoC.

You could reasonably think that this is far fetched. They only need to do it for one person and you can imagine the bad publicity that would be created. Roc 2 TRNC 0

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 23:38

im a celebrity get me out of here. Jesus all this and poor Jez the mind boggles

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 23:48

can i have some of what hector is drinking please?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 23:52

andy-f

Of course you can. It's a new one, a bit of a bitter taste called 'reality'

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
17/08/2009 23:53

hector . . up yours nob ed!

Arthur


Joined: 04/11/2008
Posts: 687

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 00:15

Andy- have you considered a career in the diplomatic corps??

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 00:25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_tVxvnEJko



Hector,

Time to get yourself home my son and have a lie down,

Paul.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 00:45

And this is a great big old Hector saying 'goodnight'

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 09:51

Hector ,

Good answer hope you slept well,

Paul.

Cyprusraider


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 10:31

Wake up Hector!! and tell us more. I'm afraid you are right. Although Oram's was a Civil Case this legislation will no doubt lead to some "disturbance of the peace." The GC's will try it out at some stage in the future, but probably, with a criminal case or two. Then...................... Clearly ANY ACTION in the North can be deemed to be an Illegal action by GC's, since this is an Illegal country. Don't forget that "Entry through an illegal port" is a stance that the GC's have reserved the right to use. ( May 2004)..Gunther Van Heuygen warned them at the time Never to use this ploy with EU Citizens but that was a long time ago and where is Gunther now?? Problems problems problems. AND it's HOT HOT HOT. Good luck crossing the border next year. I think IKEA and Carrefour will do a roaring trade in March 2010.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 10:38

I don't see how this can work:



Is a UK (EU) citizen to be extradited on the strength of a warrant issued by a second country on spec?

If there is a trial how does the UK citizen attend court in this second country on what may result in a dismissal? Will they be entitled to costs, including loss of earnings and travel costs?

Is the UK taxpayer expected to fund extradition to these countries? In the case of a dismissal, who funds the return flight?

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 10:52

The RoC will have to build a huge, new gaol to accommodate everybody - no doubt that will be EU funded!

spondoolics


Joined: 13/06/2009
Posts: 73

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 12:53

As Mr Winner says "Dont panic, its only a consideration". Consider this. It not only includes ex-pats, Italian, Germans, British, Russians and uncle tom cobble and all. TRNC is now considered for legal reasons part of the RoC therefore in the EU. Now, this also includes all Turks, Turkish Cypriots who have bought and now live here after 2006 (this law is not retrospective). I think hell will freeze over before any of the fore mentioned would be extradited by a Turkish, TRNC or Russian Government. Rest easy and enjoy TRNC. I read an awful lot of scaremongering and backstabbing on this forum and most of it should be used on the appropriate part of the anatomy. I will build a villa, and enjoy.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 13:21

In the EU, indeed - but without any of the fringe 'benefits' that RoC enjoy.

essexgirl


Joined: 01/04/2009
Posts: 87

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 13:43

Hector

You say 'Now, from next April the south could charge a non TRNC domiciled EU citizen i.e. British, who has bought a property on 'exchange' land since the law was passed in 2006.'

Does this suggest that anyone who purchased a property prior to the changing of the Law in 2006 is exempt from potential legal action, and which date are we talking about ...., the date the original contract with the builder was signed, or the date that the new Kojan was registered, (in the case of those lucky enough to have a Kojan?!!)

Also I thought possession or use of said property was also an offence, in which case it doesn't matter when you bought the property, if you are still using it, there could be consequences to follow?

Please clarify if you know the answers, and thanks in anticipation.

Susie

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 14:32

Apostolides has sued the Orams for 'trespass' - presumably RoC consider that also applies to any occupiers of what they claim is RoC property in TRNC.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 14:41

Well said spondoolics re-mess 28,

Paul.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 18:38

Susie



Good questions and I don't know the answer I'm afraid. I had hoped that apart from being called rude names and a scare mongerer etc., that someone out of the almost 800 people who have read this post, would tell me I wrong and give an intelligent reason why. Sadly not.



I have only pointed out the article in the Daily Telegraph (perhaps I should stop reading this obviously subversive rag) and what I think could be the ramifications. I again say, please don't shoot the messenger.



I still think that this EU law will open up a can of worms similar to that caused by the Orams case. You only need one EU citizen to be extradited to the RoC re a criminal case involving exchange land for the proverbial to hit the fan.



I await for someone to explain that I have got completely the wrong end of the stick and I can breath a sigh of relief.

Codger


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 153

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 18:56

This is what I believe having read other articles on the subject but of course I stand to be corrected.



The set of circumstances passed as criminal law by the ROC if applied in the UK and I believe most other EU countries would fall under civil law and not Criminal law.



Therefore a UK court would quite possibly refuse to extradite someone for what in the UK is a civil matter.



The Roc have had many years in which to apply this law and could quite easily have done so, but have chosen not to, possibly because they know it would not get very far in most other EU countries.



Any comment ?

Codger

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 19:20

ha ha ha



that,s so funny ,when will they learn ,the gc,s keep playing these silly games ,however one day it will jump up and bite them in arse.



the sooner they come to terms with the way things are the sooner we can both move on.



whatever they try ,the turkish army ,the turkish mainlanders the ex pats and whoever else they want gone ,WILL NOT HAPPEN.



further more ,if they push too hard so hard that turkey get ,s left with very limited options ,the situation as it stands for the roc will get even worse,and we will be back too square one.

sometimes you have to go backwards to move forwards ,something that tc,s now are beginning to look at as an option.



musin



long live the kktc

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
18/08/2009 22:00

hector,



I don't think you are a scaremonger but neither do I think a "criminal law" threat

will make that much difference on the ground

the other side must always be mindful not to totally alienate opinion in the uk



as suggested above, eyebrows are already being raised about the trivial nature

of some of the euro-warrants being issued but this does not mean that the roc system

will process many of these stitch-ups, tho' they could mount one case just for show



an aspect of all this which your good selves always gloss over, is whatever tricks

are used against an isolated brit it will never recover the province for them:

that is not within the gift of any uk retiree trembling in their new-build bungalow,

but decided by the turkish military, and they are busy protecting their own people



...and whenever I've gone waffling on about peace processes, (I must be mad!)

it has angered turkish cypriot members who lost family members before liberation



I'll get me coat

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 01:19

Those who mock this very serious point by saying how can they charge us all or they need to build bigger prisions in the ROC are really missing the point here.



ROC only needs to make an example of a few to make full ramifications felt.



The GCs turned down the Anan plan and still got EU membership

They won the EU ruling regarding the Ormas case

and very recently the TRNC also lost the Direct flights appeal



its not looking very good is it?



and mean while we just sit in limbo on a hope and prayer?

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 01:31

i think we will all get our coats . Turkey bails them ot as thay need the MILATRY pressence. The ROC applis to EU for all and sund=ndry this lot takes whats on offer whilst they have thier freehold properties gifted to them at the end of this war whilst the other side only freehold.THEY ARE BITTER AS YOU EXPECT BUT COME ON new generation lets all move on

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 02:21

hoagy message 37:



"...depending on peace talks..." what's that all about then?



sorry but you you are out of touch with real events my friend



he's just another sad victim of the talk-up-the-talks brigade



and meanwhile, there is peace at the moment, anyway

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 09:52

There might be 'peace' at the moment....but what about freedom?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 09:55

And a level playing field,

Paul.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 09:56

It is very clear that the ROC continue to capitalise upon their EU status and the legal protection and weaponry that EU legislation provides.

To date the ROC have somewhat failed in their aspiration to cause the demise of the TRNC. Turkey is indeed a formidible opponent. Civil litigation is yet another route that the ROC exploit in order to disadvantage the TRNC,its inhabitants and investors.

It is indeed the case that any ROC court could seek extradition of Europeans to stand trial for breach of even trivial ROC laws. I believe that the ROC will indeed pursue these avenues in order to attain their goals against anything TRNC.

Nothing is likely to happen prior to the Orams judgment. Of course the ROC run the risk of losing valuable cross border trade as people decline the opportunity to go south to shop.

What can the TRNC do. Well my view has changed. Ditch the talks. Strengthen links with Turkey and the East and dig in for the long haul to recognition, freedom and equallity.

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 10:43

Surely this question initially depends on the current unity talks. The whole issue of property rights will be addressed during these meetings. Both sides want an agreed settlement. Both sides would benefit from an agreement.

The government in the south will come under a lot pressure from the EC and cannot be seen to fail again to agree a unity plan. If they cannot reach agreement then this will not affect those resident here. You cannot be extradited from an unrecognised "country" since it requires the agreement of that "country" !.

For UK residents, lets hope that the property rights issue is addressed to give full protection from legal action. Of course the GC's have to know you own a property before they can take action.

This is also a case of "Occam's Razor". It can work both ways, since TC owned land in the South has also been appropriated. Will they risk legal action over this ?

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 10:55

The TRNC needs to worry about whether Turkey might ditch THEM!



Don't 80% work for the government?



Don't most TC's want Turkish settlers out?



In light of these recent pay increase demands and strike action threats, will Turkey eventually decide TRNC has been subsidised enough?



TRNC is the 'thorn in the side' of Turkey's EU membership aspirations?



Whatever, the generals will decide.....

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 14:17

gareth said in message 44:



"both sides want an agreed settlement"



this is possible, they have held more than twenty meetings over the last year

their minimum requirements based on various press reports and ministerial statements,

seem to be as follows for the "gc" and "tc" sides respectively:



a single cyprus state

foreign troops off the island

gc claimants take posession of all northern properties occupied prior to july 1974

new restrictions on the number of turkish settlers

one man, one vote and and no new state



the turkish army security guarantee made permanent and recognised

no handing over of trnc territories north of the green line

complete autonomy and continuing freedom for the cypriot turks

the end of all restrictions on direct trade and free flight access



if you really believe what you wrote in message 44

please explain how such contradictory and mutually exclusive requirements

could be accommodated in an agreement between the roc and turkish cyprus

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 15:27

reproman mentioned "freedom" in message 41

newlad referred to "a level playing field" in message 42



I think this is exctly what north cyprus needs at the moment:

freedom from the fear of domination ever again in the future,

with a level playing field for trnc exports, travel and flight access



and whom do they think will willingly bestow these gifts,

given the lessons of history?

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 15:58

northern cyprus is part of turkey thus can not be abandoned



if you have bought a property and registered it under your name, you have a contract with the trnc government hence turkey.



any political issues regarding your property will soon involve the eu, gc, tc, turkey governments only.



time will show that you have legally bought your property in the trnc and the political surroundings will only involve the governments.



if you wish to stress yourselves out until this becomes reality , fine



the whole point which is trying to be made is that the trnc is not a government thus any paper work or documentation is void. but the trnc does exist and here we are.



so somebody who has bought land in the trnc which was owned by a gc a long time ago will be extradited, flown around to attend court cases, lose his property in another country. amasing. the land in the trnc belongs to the trnc.

this is not the purchasers fight. this may be a civil matter but no way criminal.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 22:11

well said yasin



this thread began with one of the more popular scare stories

then the usual self-styled moralists began creeping out of the woodwork

with their self-righteous siren-song of deals and talks and wind-ups



let's be clear about three things:



nobody can ever predict exactly what will happen in the future,

either in the world at large or on this small island, so why worry or even pretend to?



north cyprus is actually someone else's country

it is not a piece of england plus sunshine and foreign food, expats are only guests here

it has its problems and so does everywhere else too... but you can love it or leave it



I am 100% sure the locals appreciate the contribution expats make to the trnc

whether they always show it or not

they face a devious and unscrupulous enemy who does not merit our support



so appreciate this beautiful and unique if sometimes chaotic place...

...and for goodness' sake stop whining!



forward with kktc, long live turkish cyprus!

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 23:00

msg 45



someone wrote that the trnc needs to worry that turkey may ditch us,another person who knows



nothing about the cyprus situation.



we have taken everything they can throw at us and more ,so i say ,just like most tc,s bring it on ,



no one cares anymore.



musin



long live the kktc

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 00:09

hoagy msg 51, remember the nights of the slaughters , then ask yous self the same question , northern cyprus is all turkish ? and always will be , you my friend are another greek , with no baxxs

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 00:28

ps hoagy long live KKTC xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

yunus



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 327

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 00:39

hoagy, i am a native Turkish Cypriot. so now you've heard it

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 01:23

Yunus makes an excellent point

"if you have bought a property and registered it under your name, you have a contract with the trnc government hence turkey. "



Anyone who tries to pretend the TRNC doesnt exsist needs to open their eyes.

WE EXIST and we are HERE TO STAY!

I purchased a property Legally within the law of the Gov of TRNC recognised and supported by TURKEY.



Hence if ANY LEGAL claim is made against me outside of TRNC, regarding any legally supported property pruchase, (signed and stamped and tax paid to a TURKEY supported TRNC GOV) it will be dealt with by the TRNC and ergo Turkey.



Flights are not allowed to TRNC, so they come via TURKEY

Trade is not allowed to/from TRNC, so they are done via TURKEY

The same will happen when it comes to any and all ISSUES REGARDING INTERNATIONAL LAW.



Repro

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 01:40

Musin,

Sorry to have to disagree with you cuz, BUT i think people DO CARE.

And i think people care more now then ever before.

More and more of my family and friends have decided to sell up completely and head back home - Home to North Cyprus.

Its good that people care and the more that people care, the quicker things can begin to change.



I really am glad, in a perverse sort of way, that cases like the ORAMS is going on right now.

The sooner we get to the end of this, the sooner we all know where we stand.

I hope the GC's bring on the worst they can throw at us, get all their dirty tricks out the way.

Criminal cases, Civil cases the lot, and really push Turkey into a corner to act.

We need more BIG CASES like the Orams to really bring the situation to the forefront of the international stage.

So we can see an end one way or another.

The 'Talks' have show time and time again that no solution can be found.



Repro

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 11:19

The Greeks voted in Makarios (The Gun Toting Bishop) by a large majority. Makarios soon formulated the Akritas plan - specifically designed to *annihilate (read 'mass murder in cold blood') the Turkish Cypriot population. The euphemism 'ethnically cleanse' had not been coined then - I wish it never had - just another example of sickening 'political correctness'.



*TheConcise Oxford Dictionary reads: Blot out of existence.



By voting in Makarios, then, the GC's effctively sanctioned his evil actions - resulting in all the TC massacres.



Why the Hell can't these ignoramuses in UK and EU (Brussells) get it into their thick, obstinate heads that the GC's deserve to forfeit their lands in Northern Cyprus precisely because of the actions carried out on the orders of their revered leader, Makarios. That, in my opinion, is what the EHCR should be ruling on.



That the EU have maintained the embargo, despite their 'sincere' promise to lift it on the proviso that TC's voted 'Yes' to

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 11:43

contd/. the Annan Plan is outrageously shameful - sickeningly so.



Perhaps Turkey should tell Brussells that it will make TRNC a state of Turkey - just to force the embargo to be lifted and give the TRNC economy a fair chance. However, and I can't blame them, most TC's wouldn't accept such action, and the EU wouldn't recognise it.



The current economic crisis in TRNC will, if it gets any worse, surely will inevitably cause total economic collapse, unless Turkey continues to bail the government out. Perhaps striking TC government workers should realise that, by their actions, they are effectively 'biting the hand that feeds them'. The rest of the world are 'belt tightening', not making salary increase demands. Just 'hanging on to their jobs' is the desperate hope of ordinary people in the 'real world' - TC government workers need to face reality - the reality being that we are all being forced to 'share a smaller slice of a smaller cake' - like it, or lump it!

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 14:53

Tenakoutou and hoagy

Well put!



If having purchased a property in NC and I 'have a contract with the TRNC government hence Turkey' why am I being refused PTP? How does that help the political and financial well being of the TRNC and it's people?

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 15:11

Perhaps that's what 'reproman's' estate agent told him and he believes he is untouchable - as most UK buyers of former GC owned property hope they will be.



If the Brtitish court rules in favour of the EU court decision and the Oram's are forced to sell up in UK to compensate Mr. Apostolides, there will be much grinding and gnashing of teeth for EU citizens owning 'Ech' property, as well as property or immovable assets in their homelands.



The ECHR should rule that GC's must forfeit their NC properties because they wanted 'Enosis', and they voted in Makarios. Unfortunately, in such a situation, the minority of GC's who were anti 'EOKA B', and anti Makarios, must accept that they should also suffer the loss of their properties - that's called 'Democracy'.

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 15:35

IF ! The orams are forced to pay anything.

IF ! Turkey doesn't step in sort it out if the case goes against them.

IF it happens.



Hoagy, I'm not here to prove anything, the sooner we see the final outcome of these cases the sooner we all know where we stand.



I purchased my property through the legal gov of MY country. IF this turns out to be a crime then that gov would be held accountable. and before you say TRNC is not recognised, they are by Turkey.

As I said earlier, we are now in very crucial times. Talks have continually failed. Maybe it will this court case for us all to see where we stand and how far turkey is prepared to go.



Repro

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 15:48

Sorry on iPhone and tricky to post/type!



Just for one min can you imagine what would happen if the orams lost their house in the uk due to them buying properyt backed by the Turkey supported TRNC gov?

It's not just the English that will be affected, Germans French etc and don't forget the thousands of British Turkish Cypriots that have built homes back in Cyprus but are also uk citizens. the very people turkey came to save in 1974.



Yes, it's very unfortunate for those involved in the first few cases whilst the restvof us sit back and await the outcome, maybe one day we might have a statue of the orams in lapta! Lol



repro

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 09:25

Reproman: I reckon the GC's know that TC's have every right, certainly from a moral standpoint, of occupying, using or buying their former lands and properties, because they know, full well, that it was they who drove out the TC's. If not in North Cyprus, where the Hell do the GC's expect the TC's to live? They certainly don't want TC's living in the South, if they can possibly avoid it.



Therefore, it's more likely that, if the GC's want to make themselves any more unpopular and, next April, do exploit the recently signed extradition order agreement, that the Brits and other foreigners will be the first to be targeted.



In view of all this current and potential trouble, Brussells should suspend RoC's EU membership - no if's or but's.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 15:14

"In view of all this current and potential trouble, Brussells should suspend RoC's EU membership - no if's or but's."



Oh yes, now that would bring the tears on.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 19:41

reproman



i think you misunderstood me when i say (who cares anyway) ,i mean who cares what the gc,s



throw at us ,lets face it after 35 years of it ,it,s hardly a shock anymore is it .



we are both in agreement as for london tc,s moving back ,in the last ten years 25% of my family have



relocated back home and not one has returned ,unlike 20 years ago.



maybe GB is not what it was.



musin



long live the kktc

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 20:37

Msg 60---- yes lets have a statue to the Orams with them standing proud alone while seeing off the seething masses of Gcs with the inscription "they shall not pass".



Puts me in mind of the Zulus, saying that the Greeks dont have any backbone run for the hills at the first sign of trouble "dont like it up em" as Corporal Jones used to say.



Makes you proud to be British !

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 22:57

Or the inscription could say 'Proud but skint'



Or perhaps the statue of them standing by a tent with 'we showed em!'