Afghanistan: another sad record

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 22:32

1326 Allied soldiers have now died in "Operation Enduring Freedom" (Afghanistan). The UK now lost 204 military men. More sad figures here: http://icasualties.org/oef/

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 23:24

Could someone please tell me (honestly) what British troops are doing in Afghanistan? 'Protecting (who) from the Taliban?' I admit to being a complete ignoramous regarding politics. I read the paper/listen to the news almost every day and I hear of yet another young serviceman/woman being killed in Afghanistan.



As I said, I'm not 'au fait' with this, but, can someone please provide, simply, an answer as to why 'we' are there and when, if ever, 'we' have any hope of getting out?



With thanks.

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
19/08/2009 23:45

hoagy - thank you for that, but, as you say, a very tall order, although indeed, as you also point out, more honourable that the oil-grabbing in Iraq!



The thing is, I (and a lot of better-educated than I, I'm sure) cannot see any sign of light at the end of the tunnel? Am I wrong - I sincerely hope so. It seems to me a bit like painting the Forth (spelling?) bridge. You sort out one bit and then the other bit needs sorting out! I get very distressed when watching the news about the young lads/lasses being killed and, for what, I struggle to understand.



Again, many thanks and will read the link now.



Jeannie



PS Just as a point of interest, what to do you rate NATO's chances of ridding the country of Taliban insurgents?

J

rdsteve


Joined: 01/03/2009
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 08:02

Am i correct in thinking the Russian were in Afganistan doing the same thing a few years ago but they lost so many men that they pulled out?. Why do we follow the Americans into every war. Lets get our boys home, so many young lives lost. It is like sending lemings over the cliff. All this is about is the opium fields. Why dont we just spray the field to kill the poppies, and yes innosent lives will be lost with sparying but is that not whats happening to our young soldiers.

PLEASE Gordon Brown do the decent thing and bring our troops home



Steve

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 14:58

I believe this is the 3rd time we have 'been' in Afghanistan in recent history.



During the Russian Invasion the West, US & UK included, funded and armed the Taliban and have also funded and armed Bin Laden and Al'queda.



The Russians eventually pulled out after 10 yrs or so at massive cost.



Our Governments never seem to learn.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 17:45

Will the election there today change anything. GB should bring back our troops

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 19:09

hoagy



Because it will be another Vietnam.



Yet another failed Imperialist War based on loose and unfounded political assumptions.

CJtill


Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 21:38

We should have learnt our lesson by now.

The first Afgan War in 1842 resulted in 16,500 Brits and their allies evacuating Kabul and retreating back into then India ( now Pakistan) with only one survivor (and he was only left alive to tell the tale).

This is the WORST place in the world to try and fight the locals, get out now and save British lives.

Michael

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
20/08/2009 23:20

Hoagy the same as CJs . Lives are being losy for what. A war we wont win. Close or burn the poppy fiels is that why they are there. How many more young men and women from all nationalities will loose thier lives for what xx We can never change the mentality of these people who trat women and thier own so badly xxxx I also think its more to do with Pakistian than we know xxx

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 04:50

One of the last links to achieve an open pathway between the western world and china.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 07:58

Recently Aljazeera reported that there have never been such bumper heroin poppy crops as there are now!



Why can't these politicians just come clean and admit that such a war serves only to boost the massive arms and ordnance industry, and test new weaponary - that's the name of the game: 'Dirty Politics'.

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 11:00

As one who has written and speak extensively on the region here are a few personal thoughts that may either clarify or confuse us all even more:



1. 9/11 justifiably elecited a response from the US and its allies; but no Afghan or Pakistani were directly involved in the barbarity except that AlQaeda, the masterminds behind 9/11, had its MAIN base on Afghan soil and the Talibans warmly hosted them. The Talibans had tacitly enjoyed, upto the day of 9/11 US support including that of Pakistan which, at least some security elements within that country, continues that support even after the Talibans had been topelled. Why?



2. Regional politics: Pakistan sees its western border through the lenses of the India specific threat to its security. Talibans are mainly Pashtun, as are Pakistan's population in the North (i.e. NFWP ), and sees them as a buffer against India expansionism and adventurism from the west especially as most Pakistani troops are tied up in the East of the country. .....

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 11:12

..2 Basically Pakistani support for the Pashtun's (read Talibans) in Afghanistan translated security on the cheap on the western borders (this has backfired and is complicated matters for the Pakistani and is a further issue).



3. UK has, as always obligingly, followed the US where other fools fear to tread. One may argue that it was morally correct to do so in the intial stages of the operation when AQ were partially decimated and Talibans toppled but to continue to sustain that operation ("in order to free the world from terrorism threats") was reckless of Blair because UK has now become part of, or rather sucked into the bigger picture of US imperialism and forgetting that the days of British imprialism were buried in 1960's. What is the bigger picture?



3. The international evovling strategic balance. Bring in the emergence of China as a future world power, reassertion of Russian power and"relevance of central asia as a future 'Gulf region". Like the cold war, wherein UK and .

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 11:21

..3 US found it self on the opposing side, we have now another struggle emerging. Afghanistan finds itsel at the crossroads of that struggle with Pakistan too but one that is torn between two international lovers (US & China) and security interests at the regional levels.



3a. US wishes, with India support (as reflected in US-India Defence agreements over the past 7 years) wishes to build up a regional defence bullwark against china (+Russia) and as envisaged in the US National Security Strategy 2002, 2006 and also not disowned as yet by the Obama. Afghanistan has come to be at the center of this "Big Game" in western Asia" and UK as a reluctant (from the public perspective) poodle of the US in this game.



4. Pakistan 'Duplicity'. Pakistan an ally of both China and US finds itself in a difficult position. It must thrawt India ambitions in the West but that also conflicts with US interests in the same region ....



Your thoughts

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
21/08/2009 12:22

living in a free society is what we all take for granted no war no dictators isnt life wonderful.



jeannie i have seen a women executed on a football pitch with an ak round fired into her head .



her crime to have had an affair.



another beaten so severly for not covering her face



afgans are decent people taliban are not its as simple as that