The real state of the housing market

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 14:52

Over the last few months i spoken to a fair few folk who are trying to sell up, plus there are 4 people on our site trying to sell too.....



All have had little of no interest since the Orams ruling a few months ago...



Does that mean the re-sale market here is no doomed ??





Interested to hear people's thoughts....

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 14:59

I met 2 couples who had purchased when I was over last week.



No, the market is not doomed. I think you have to put it into perspective and realise that your properties are not worth what you think they are worth. If you put a realistic price on it then you've got a chance. If you got all utilities connected and your deeds, then you are halfway there. Put it on with a few agents - try advertising it in the UK. Moreover try advertising it in Russia, they are the ones buying all the properties at the moment along with the Iranians (so I'm told)

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 15:07

NO 1 - one coupld i talked to had reduced there place from £300k to £200k and still no interest......

cyprusjoker


Joined: 29/08/2009
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 15:09

Well theres your answear NMMMN, The orams case has clearly affected the housing market here, for god's sake, any fool can see that..

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 15:11

Nick - it may still not be worth that. They really need to get the price competitive. Compare it to as many other properties that are similar and check that the valuation is right. If it is then just put it on with every Agent in the TRNC - they are only going to have to pay one fee at the end of the day.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 15:22

Like us maybe folk just want to dip there toe into the water and go for the cheaper end of the market , less to lose if all goes pear shaped so to speak , spending £200K TO £300K I personally think is risky , and a long time before you made any money if you wanted to re sell .

On a positive note apartments are selling steady on our complex , but we have the added bonus of deeds .

minertor



Joined: 14/02/2009
Posts: 1238

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 15:26

Negnik, You put "does that mean the resale market is no doomed"

Obviously you missed a letter off the "no"

Was it a T or a W?



Tony

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 15:45

It is not just the Oram's case that is affecting the market. The lying cheating builders and advocates are destroying the TRNC. I have been getting emails for 3 years telling me that my contract was registered - told this morning it is not.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 15:58

Around us in Malatya, 3 houses have been sold in the last month: 2 to Russians and 1 to a local Brit. The Russians apparently paid the full amount. This seems to beat the trend, but it could just be that the price and location were just right for the buyer.

Mal

Middle Easter


Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 146

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 16:32

Msg 8 - spot on, well said!



The Orams issue is a big issue, but lack of local trust is equally as bad. It is a cultural thing which is rampant across parts of Southern Europe & Middle East where the 'screw someone today, forget about the next day' is commonplace: It even comes down to overpricing for drinks in a bar.



Everyone (you would think) would know that if you pee someone off today, they won't come back again, but so many people here just don't get it.



Apologies to the good people about there, as there are some examples of very professional behaviour too!

Bikerboy



Joined: 10/09/2009
Posts: 111

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 16:33

NN you do seem so negative! i have bought a house here and although i got a big reduction in the price nearly 75k i am not worried. Many people i know have bought and are buying at the moment here in Northern Cyprus.



Maybe if you have 4 houses on the same street all not selling you are asking too much ? Where abouts are you ?

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 17:18

Depends entirely on:

1) Price

2) Type of deeds. Other than pre-1974 Turkish Deeds forget it!

Geoff

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 17:20

Geoff, message 12, I'm sorry I have to disagree with your 2). The two couples who purchased last week purchased 'exchange land' properties.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 17:49

"The two couples who purchased last week purchased 'exchange land' properties."



Then more fool them. Who were their advisors?

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 17:50

No it's not doomed, far from it. House purchase always has been a long term investment, and the short term speculators often lose out. Typically the negative equity situation when buyers cannot support higher mortgage rates.Taking the larger picture, the landmass here is very limited and at some point in the not too distant future demand will far outstrip supply. The Orams case? not sure, too early to panic yet. More of interest to the serious investor should be the Plan A Plan B status, and that will probably far outweigh any Orams impact. There will be plenty of buyers outside of the EEC once Plan B comes operational. Have you ever wondered why there is so much building going on here in the North by outside investors? They saw the true writing on the wall a long time ago, and that is for a goodly return on their sheckles when the TRNC becomes recognised by the "outside world". When is that? sometime shortly after November 2009! Sit tight all you doomsayers.

TonyE

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 17:51

I spoke to my agent who told me he sold two properties last week, one in Famagusta and the other in Kyrenia. I dont know if they were pre 74 or Esdeger, I forgot to ask

niftyduo


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 230

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 17:54

The Orams case aside, sales in NC would have been down as a result of the economic downturn in Europe and the UK. House sales are certainly slow in thye UK so it is really hard to make a judgement on the efect of the Orams. As pointed out, the Russians are buying.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 17:54

ps for those who are brave enough, there may never be a better time to purchase in NC

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 18:08

geoff message 12:



you are right of course but...



since former greek cypriot occupants claim their group owned 92% of all property in cyprus prior,

I always wonder just how many pre-july 1974 roc properties were genuinely owned by cypriot turks

or is it just the estate agent, and the land registry (trnc title) saying so?



another point is that two to three hundred grand represents a degree of committment,

and as pipie suggests, there's lots of cheap and very cheerful flats on the market instead

even if not tt-tested as it were



also, many beach and hillside developments are sited on parcelised former scrubland

and whether anybody ever comes a knockin' is unlikely and already price-discounted



for buyers, I'd say the credit crunch, fallen british home values and general "wind down"

of the whole place in the sun stampede are at least as big a factor as the orams

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 18:19

Msg: 19 "for buyers, I'd say the credit crunch, fallen british home values and general "wind down"



of the whole place in the sun stampede are at least as big a factor as the orams"



Completely agree with this statement, UK properties have been moving very slowly, if at all, for at least the past year. This being a global recession, it must be the same everywhere. Property is like stocks and shares, to make any money one has to sell at the right time.

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 18:30

Count your blessings!



2 weeks ago in Puerto-Banus Spain, looked around 2 Luxury Golf Villa resales, originally bought about 4 yrs ago at £1.1 & £1.2m, now open to offers around £450/500k!



Investment properties in places like Dubai & Bulgaria fallen by 70%+ in 3 yrs!



A business colleague has just taken a 3 bed appt in Aphrodite Hills nr Paphos as part of a business deal.



He was told it was valued at £275k,.. the reality is more like £150k. Not a happy bunny!





It makes N Cyprus seem pretty good!



Rob

ian444


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 71

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 19:02

In terms of the Uk the Orams factor is paramount. A firm I have dealings with in London, sold property in Turkey and NC, they have dropped the NC side of their business . Following the Orams case the were legally advised that they had to inform any potential purchaser from the EU region that any EU assets could be at risk if a claim was made on the NC property by a previous Greek Cypriot owner. As one partner told me , you are basically telling a buyer that if he purchases an apartment in NC he could lose not only the apartment but also his house in the EU.



Which though very unlikely to occur is the cold stark reality of the NC property market.



I wonder if the Estate agents / builders / lawyers in Kyrenia are giving out the same warnings

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2918

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 19:58

Some input frrom someone who would buy if they could.



Allthough the Oram's case may have some effect in the end I don't think it is paramount in my decision whether to buy in NC.

The global financial crises as everyone likes to call it has far more effect.

I can only speak for myself but in my case, If I had the ready cash to purchase a property I would be doing a lot more than just browsing web sites as I am now.

As I said , I don't have the ready cash as yet and I could not sell my Dubai property for 30% of its value last year even if I wanted to.

My wifes apartment in Russia would be a similar valuation and finally my UK property is the only property I could probably utilise and remortgage but that is not a chance I am willing to take, not to mention it is in someone elses name so I'm not sure if I could anyway.

That leaves me with a mortgage in NC and the only ones I have seen that are viable are agents own that mean only for their property and seem to be overpriced.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 21:22

One thing that all posts on this thread seem to have overlooked is:



People of retiring age, who are reasonably financially secure, possibly with reasonable pensions, realise that

their 'time-clock is ticking - ominously!', and 'So what if our UK property is worth X% less than before the 'global financial crisis', which doesn't affect us too seriously - especially at our time of life.'



So, it is logical to assume that people in this category are unlikely to shelve their plans for 'my retirement villa/apartment in the sun'.



Since so many, in Spain, NC, or wherever, have signed up and bought in almost total naivety, this factor, alone, is bound to ensure that the demand for 'my retirement villa/apartment in the sun' will never diminish.



Many such people will continue to 'take the plunge' in Northern Cyprus, with the philosophy that: 'Heck, if we can have 5-10+ years of the 'good life' before we have to return home (UK/EU) for medical treatment, or some GC sues us - OK!'

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 23:01

the questions and variety of responses so far

illustrate that whatever the opportunities and uncertainties involved,

as in all questions of property and investment

in north cyprus, exactly as everywhere else in the world...

it is left for the, hopefully, well-informed individual to weigh up the pros and cons

and determine their needs and whether north cyprus can offer what they seek



I am impressed by the quality of debate on this thread,

but feel that pat answers may not be terribly useful in this context



as regards the vexed question of south cyprus' strategy

it is crystal clear that those authorities, in their political and practical encouragement

of "certain individuals" are acting on the implicit assumption that unification of the island,

even into two separate "autonomous zones" is quite unimaginable in any forseeable future



...not that it would particularly bother me either way

AlexF065


Joined: 07/09/2009
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 23:09

As a person looking



I would only want to buy pre 74 deeds due to the oram's case in truth

The lack of major funding is also a great problem as 30% of the price and a 6 yr mortgage is quite expencive

The problems over health issues are also somthing I need to look at very deeply as i do have some health problems

I have looked into Spain but it is very very built up and not really for me although my health does seem to improve while is the southern costa blanca area.

I figure I have around 10-12 yrs left working at the present time although that does not bring me to retirement age I would be 10 yrs off

I have a small pension and would have i suspect long term disability payments but are these payments from the DHSS allowed in TRNC? or only within another EU country as i do know folk who are crippled within a week of comming back to the UK with their arthritis but are almost normal while on the costa blanca.

people who ever they are need to find out as much as possible and visit

batterboy58



Joined: 20/04/2008
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 23:29

There is a simple solution to the question posed by this thread.

IT'S A BUYERS MARKET

This is true whether you are selling in UK, TRNC or USA

The asking price should reflect this or it will not sell.

If we wanted to sell our apartment (which we don't) we would probably lose around £10k on what we paid 2 years ago and throw in our £15k worth of furniture to boot.



As someone mentioned previously the ones doing the buying at the moment are the Russians and Iranians who are not going to be affected by any EU ruling or be intimidated by any Stavros who comes calling.

Smity



Joined: 14/09/2009
Posts: 826

Message Posted:
21/09/2009 23:43

Q 27 your are spot on maqte good on Ya

This is a beautiful island we came here for a holiday last August by the Ocyober October of that year we had seen and bought a place and yes we got a bloody bargin, but the sellers were more than happy with the deal , and no they were not leaving a sinking ship, but we also made sure every thing was cosha. Worth the extra few bob.



I have a friend who lives in Co Durham and his second house he wants to sell to buy out here, it has been reduced it by £50K and still no takers.



To be fair we did get the extra funding we needed before the Credit Crunch but at a good reate of interest from a UK bank.



Any one looking to buy go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
22/09/2009 00:02

Mother in law left tidy sum looking to invest in beach front 2 bed 2bath apartment or villa . front row properties only.

elevated considered.

regards

p

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
22/09/2009 00:06

Paul



Tahiti!



Richard

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
22/09/2009 00:11

Definently not Goa!

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
22/09/2009 00:20

Look at the Cook Islands, Rarotonga.



Richard

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
22/09/2009 07:02

Too right, Richard - my pick: Aitutaki Island - off the end of Stanley & Palmer Islands!

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
22/09/2009 15:09

Re Msg #19. You can easily have a search done to verify pre-74 deeds are genuine. But, as you rightly point out, there are not many such properties around. The selling price may be the give away! They usually fetch up to 2x the price of exchange deed etc properties.

We searched for 5 years before we found our place in Famagusta City (Walled City) on pre-74 deeds.

Finally, you will have trouble selling any property you wouldn't wish to buy yourself, deeds/price,

Geoff

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
22/09/2009 16:38

Look at how buyers are treated in terms of the laws in North Cyprus, some very poor build quality, lack of infrastructure and then add that to the politcal situation in Cyprus. There are loads of bargains about in many, many countries around Europe many of which do not have the same problems that the TRNC has.



Strangely enough yesterday I got an email from an estate agent that we had one of our properties up for sale with. He asked how much it was now etc etc. Wouldnt have minded so much but we sold that property over 2 years ago

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
22/09/2009 17:14

I suppose after "topic" like this you'll wonder why,no one is buying your houses!!!!!!

bachelibelly


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
22/09/2009 18:20

As someone who up to press purchased a property with a certain wow factor ,finished ,with all the sevices , the last thing on my mind was " how much will its resale value be in x ammount of years and how much will i lose , the investment potential as the rental value was not a factor .The main consideration was a place we could afford to give us 5,10 15 yrs of quality of life ,starting as a holiday home and hopefully more permanent later on.Anything more thought provoking than that was deemed an unnecessary worry, could we afford to do the same in Spain,Portuagul etc. ,well no and regarding losing money and investment the financial institutions in the YUK have been taking care of that for us all quite nicely ,thanks .Although to be fair i bailed out of the YUK economy 2 years ago ,foresight or just luck i guess....

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
22/09/2009 18:27

Salahi



There are loads of bargains about all over the place, it is not unique to Cyprus. Unfortunately for many, many of the other problems do seem to be more prevolent in Cyprus than anywhere else

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
22/09/2009 21:48

Stubs;

You will fing that,most people on this thread are also trying to sell their properties at the same time.My comments was towards those.



One minute their complaining about how bad it is to live in TRNC,next,their house is up for sale,and after that comes the comments above.



Good advertising.........................NOT

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
22/09/2009 22:12

stubs message 38:



this reply seems just a tad tendacious if I may say so



while it is perfectly true that the disputed character of north cyprus property ownership

has had a thorough airing at least in the hallowed annals of the cyprus 44 forum,

some pretty grim revelations surfaced in the last year regarding 100,000 republic of "cyprus"

secret mortgages, known locally as "developer loans"



friends in south africa expect daily expect to be "done over" at their place in the sun,

while another lost her life savings when her spanish developer went "bankrupt",

and a russian pal starts spitting venom at the slightest mention of property in bulgaria



this writer was shown a mousehole in a backstreet on the island of gozo,

part of the state of malta, with a price tag of 120,000 stg for very little...



lack of space prevents me from enlarging on french beauracracy,

crap north european rain or thugs outside your posh jamaican cantonment



problems more prevalent? I wonder!

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
23/09/2009 12:59

Tenakoutou, message 24. very true, when I saw people of near/retirement age, my friends in the UK either having health problems or dying off, it occurred to me that waiting until 65 was not a clever thing to do, so I "retired" early at 61 in order to have as many years of "quality time" as possible with my partner. The housing market ? well the drop in value when I sold cost me the long awaited Harley, but I still wear the T Shirt.

I think those people that are "old adventurers" realise that the Orams issues etc are not really of great significance when you take the plunge; neither is the fact that I might not be able to sell my house here for what I paid for it last year really relevant. Those who do not have the courage to fully make the break with the UK house are the jittery ones, not us who have already done it and have no regrets.

It would be interesting to see exactly what percentage of the "doom merchants" on this forum actually own & live here full time.

TonyE

AlexF065


Joined: 07/09/2009
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
23/09/2009 13:08

Tony E

You do have a point, I am quite worried about things now as i have said even though I have friends who are moving out to NC in November

when i last spoke to them they were still having problems getting the electrics connected but are going to be staying in an apartment until their villa is sorted out.

They feel things will get sorted much faster when they have my friends husband to deal with face to face I do hope they are correct as my friend is not very well and stress does not help her condition

But it is the problems folk have had with builders and advocates that i find the most scary and will now wait to see how my friends get on when they are resident that will make my mind up about whether to come over for a month to look around or not bother to be 100% honest.

maybe a rent to buy scheme would work?

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
23/09/2009 19:05

I think the best advice heard on this forum is for would be immigrants to take a fairly long rental on a place, and use the year to work out what, where and how they really would like to live in retirement.

Here,face to face does get results, much better than emails, viz I walk in and get an appointment for the next day, I can email for months, but the foot-in-the-door merchant always wins!

Unless you buy a resale with deeds (exchange or otherwise is irrelevant), and power/water,then you have to expect the worst case of generator,delayed takeup,poss legal action.I bought offplan, don't it's hi-risk. My place is so big and remote that when Plan B comes operational I may sell up and rent somewhere as a base and spend 3 months each year traveling the world in a motorhome; & in 10 years time when I no longer need the workshop and the acreage move to an apartment within walking/ bussing distance of a town centre and there live out my days. neither was in the original plan though.

Tonye