Advice needed at the deposit stage

adam7157


Joined: 07/05/2007
Posts: 5

Message Posted:
08/05/2007 21:37

Hi there i have been to see a reptuable estate agent today based in the uk in my local area.I looked at properties which where listed as Bahcli and Esentepe mainly 2 bed apartments but with no name of actual sites yet.I have seen the land which the plots are to be built on via photos which is just greenary at the min so the apartments are basically computer genararted at the min.I have been told that the properties would be ready in about 14 months with 3 months grace and then the buyer receives £250 for every month the build goes over.I was told that they are very close by to the newly built golf course and country club.A £1000 deposit is what is neede to secure the property and then there are various payment plans which can be taken out with the final payment being made at the end of the build.It also mention that it is just 15 mins from the old harbour of Kyrenia. It is also stated in the info that the land title of the properties they are selling our TMD which they have stated is safe.



I am very interested in the property and would like to know if there is anything else i should be asking the estate agent.Also if there are any recomendations of a decent and trusting independent lawyer who is not connected to any developers or estate agents.Thanks in advice any help will be much apprieciated

P.S Thanks for all your lovely help in my last post.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
08/05/2007 22:11

First do not under any circumstances do anything without looking at these sites first. Photos etc can be touched up so easily. People have had sent photos of houses in the build stages that were not the house being purchased and when buyers have come to look at their properties they find no house!!!!!!!! Ask yourself, would you buy a home or land in England without checking it first.



Anything around that area will be lucky to have water and mains electric in the foreseeable future. So if estate agents say there is no problem - worry and ask for project authorities!!



Do not understand TMD for land title. Whatever it is get to see the documentation again before laying money down.



As for the £250 penalty clause. Sorry but that remains a standing joke here amongst residents. Pay outs are as rare as hens teeth and under current legislation not enforceable.



As for lawyers, only thing I would suggest is while you are over here checking before putting down deposit try finding one in Lefkosa.



Probably not want you want but is my opinion from some experience of buying here and living here for 18 months I will say again do not put down any money before visiting here.



David

Notsoboredhw


Joined: 15/03/2007
Posts: 1254

Message Posted:
08/05/2007 22:48

Yes I agree with David - do not put any money down until you have seen the site/land. Come out for a few days and inspect the site you are interested in. Esentepe and Bahceli are an up and coming area with lots happening - there's the new golf course which we are very close to. There's a new marina (closer to Bacheli.



We have bought in Esentepe - and as far as I am aware from owners who have already completed on our site - we DO HAVE WATER AND WE DO HAVE ELECTRICITY!!! I understand though that throughout the whole of North Cyprus they do have electricity power cuts now and again.

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
08/05/2007 23:02

Yes agree with most of what's already been said. You MUST come out and view before committing yourself. Near to the Golf course, or the Marina could be as much as 10 miles or more away!!! Same for Esentepe, if they say located at Esentepe that could mean a few miles away from Esentepe village itself. You need to see the site for yourself first. I know of one small apartment site that is virtually facing the new road on the way to Esentepe, which you wouldn't know unless you actually came over to see it!! Of course, if your idea of tranquility is sunbathing by the communal pool whilst watching the traffic go racing by then it could well suit!!! But not for me!!



Don't be put off, as there are some lovely places, but visit first and do your homework and you'll stand a good chance of getting what you want.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/05/2007 23:57

Definately do not pay a deposit until you visit and find a place that meets your requirements. I know of one 'hard nosed' company which markets themselves in Bachieli and Esentepe and I know for sure you will not get your deposit back should you change your mind.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/05/2007 00:09

ps I got my fingers burnt.

I can recommend speaking to a Turkish Cypriot who was born and educated as a dentist in the UK, and now lives back in the TRNC. He has bought several properties on the island and has made it his business to know more about who the good and bad players are in the property business.

He can be contacted at peter@northerncyprusproperties.co.uk

adam7157


Joined: 07/05/2007
Posts: 5

Message Posted:
09/05/2007 00:39

Cheers for all the replies really helpfull.Millzer is that site you also mentioned does it back on to the river and is it quite close to the golf course because on the plans it metions a main road to the apartments to the far side of the complex.Oh and on the plans it metions Atelier-M CYPRUS and Obelisk Homes ltd has anyone heard of these companies cheers Adam.

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
10/05/2007 19:17

Hi all,



Regarding TMD-Thasis title land this is considered to be risky as it is land that was GIVEN to turkish settlers and turkish military soldiers during the islands divide/war as a way of payment and thankyou for helping the turk cypriots during the war!!

It is considered legally and morally to be wrong and risky to purchase in peoples eyes!

If you purchase this kind of land or property on the land this will cause you alot of issues if the island re-unites or settlements between north and south are one day decided!



Alot of things have changed in NC recently regarding title deeds and TRNC are now saying that all deeds are classified as TRNC FREEHOLD and they all now hold the same status-but quite a few people are still saying that it is debatable

and may be the first land to be handed over if a settlement is reached!



Didnt mean to scare you off or sound glum about the TMD situation Im just telling it as best as I know!



Ive bought property in tatlisu- and it is on TRNC freehold exchange (Esdenger)

land which is what most developments are being built on at the moment!

The safest title deeds are pre-74 deeds-which are 100% safe as they are internationally recognised deeds-whereas any other TRNC deeds are only recognised in NC!



Good luck with the search

Take care D

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/05/2007 21:18

Really good advice from Davidoff re tmd title deeds. I too was told to steer clear of these deeds as they are the ones deemed the most unsafe. Sadly lots of builders and estate agents and the legal profession are now putting them under the heading of TRNC title deeds and many people are dismissing the risk element because of this. All deeds except pre 74 (and you have to be careful they are genuine as you pay slightly more) carry a certain amount of risk and you have to bear in mind that there is a possibility of having to pay some compensation. Also Adam properties advetised in England can sometimes be more expensive than when purchased over here. It's a buyers market - come and inspect it.

helot



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 102

Message Posted:
11/05/2007 15:41

Hi

I have just recieved a call from peter@northerncyprusproperties.co.uk ,I had emailed him after seeing his name mentioned and he was great,I am relocating to North Cyprus later this year and like yourself I am not sure who to trust but Peter tells it like it is whereas some will only tell you what you want to hear,don't get me wrong it hasn't put me off neither was that Peters Intentions but his advise is very very good and I hope to meet up with him when I travel accross,It may be worth your while to speak or emial him as it has made me feel a lot more positive.

gongle


Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 13

Message Posted:
11/05/2007 21:46

here is a bit of info on TMD land



Tahsis (TMD)

More commonly known as TMD land, Tahsis land was owned pre 1974 by a Greek Cypriot. Post 1974 the title deeds were issued by the TRNC government to a turkish mainland settler as opposed to a Turkish Cypriot refugee. Some of the most beautiful areas of Northern Cyprus are often TMD land.

Under the Annan plan, TMD land owners are greatly protected. The current owner cannot lose the land to the pre 1974 Greek Cypriot owner if the land has been ‘substantially improved’ since 1974. TMD land does not benefit from the comparative land value protection. However construction of a property is considered as a ‘substantially improvement’ so purchasing property on TMD land is protected under the Annan plan just as those purchasing exchange land.



Only those wishing to purchase just land should take the difference between the two title deed types into consideration.



RE: compensation. the TRNC government is now paying compensation to GCs who want to give up their claim on the land through a property commission which really consigns all the arguements on the different type of lands to the bin.



ECHR APPEARS TO RECOGNIZE TRNC PROPERTY COMMISSION



In a key decision on Greek Cypriot property claims yesterday, the European Union Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg appeared to recognize a newly founded property resolution commission in Northern Cyprus. The ECHR ruled in the case of Myra Xenides-Arestis that Turkey had violated the “protection of property” and “right to respect for the applicant’s home” of the European Convention on Human Rights, but did not order immediate compensation for Turkey. Legal experts interpreted the ECHR’s not ruling for immediate compensation from Turkey, and asking for a remedy in three months’ time, as a move towards recognizing the newly founded independent property resolution commission in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC). The Turkish Foreign Ministry said yesterday in a statement that the court’s decision had demonstrated that the Turkish Cypriot property arrangements, carried out under a new law, were well justified. /The New Anatolian/

..........................................................................



Take as an example the fact that Northern Cyprus now has its own property commission which is fully backed by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR). Previously Greek Cypriot’s who formerly owned property in the North brought cases against the Northern administration to the ECHR – but now that the North has its own property commission it is now dealing with all cases about land disputes with full international backing. Not many people know this fact because the Turkish Cypriots are far less vociferous when it comes to their successes than the Greek Cypriots are when it comes to their complaints.



The property commission is currently awarding compensation to Greek Cypriots who have brought cases to it, it has not returned land or property and the compensation to be paid comes from the commission with the aid of Turkey…so the negative propaganda is now totally without teeth or substance. Fortunately, slowly but very surely more and more people are beginning to realise this which is why property prices are going up in the North in direct line with increasing demand.





taken from various websites

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/05/2007 16:40

In the Myra Xenides-Arestis case payment was NOT for loss of ownership as the court held that she still legally owns the property. The high court also confirmed that the Oram's were tresspasses on the land of Mr Apostolides and that he, certainly not them was the legal owner.Also the ECHR recently pointed out that the TRNC Property Commission has up to now only handed back unoccupied properties/land and given financial compensation to those who have desired it. They are monitoring the situation and like many people are waiting for a ruling on GC owned but "illegally occupied" property and land in which the owner wants it back. I think it is only as cut and dry as gongle makes out, if the island never unites and Turkey does not join the EU. But if this does happen it'll be a different ball game. However I still think buying in the TRNC is a good investment, because if the above does happen property prices would rise and if compensation needs to be paid profits would be significant even after paying any compensation.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
14/05/2007 22:27

Adam



Try New Villas International, building villas and apartments only build on pre74 turkish title , excellent quality, professional management, highly recommended, plus security. Provides peace of mind, worth a look .

Regards and good luck.

p

annie


Joined: 30/05/2007
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
30/05/2007 19:39

Hi I have recently returned from a viewing trip. We loved the place but we are very very glad we did not put down a holding deposit of a £1000 to secure before we went (We were very tempted and like you did not want to miss out but common sense got the better of us thank goodness). We looked at nearly all the major players as well as smaller developements in the area you are interested in. A lot did not come any where near what we expected from pictures. Some better a lot were worse. You must go out and see for your self. As for the rest I will leave to the people in the know those in the forum who live there and know what they are talking about. **With that in mind if anyone can help me I have posted a few questions today under the heading retirement**

newbie



Joined: 03/06/2007
Posts: 3

Message Posted:
03/06/2007 22:18

hi Adam,



we have just returned from looking at the area where you are mentioning. We paid £1000 dep. to estate agents in liverpool, were given a brochure with photos and also ground plan (obelisk homes etc). We drove out ourselves to esenteppe and bahcelli and found it impossible to locate where they were. We rang the estate agents and they told to us to look for a field with '8 skeleton villas' in. Did not know if these villas were the actual villas or what. No signs up or anything. We have since viewed some Turtle bay properties and have decided to cut our losses and go with Turtle bay. Hope this is helpful to you. But if you haven't already made arrangements to go out there, do! It is a lovely place and I can't wait to have my home there.