Oh Dear.. an important player in any CY settlement has 'gone'

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/10/2009 08:30

Mr Karamanlis - who was personally close to Mr Erdogan - the TR President- has been booted out of power in GR.. :(



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8289674.stm

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
05/10/2009 09:24

Another nail in the coffin for Turkey's EU entry bid.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
05/10/2009 09:35

'Every dog has its day', and George Papandreou had his and failed to stem the corruption - how he plans to 'fix' this problem, which has been and obviously is endemic, seems ludicrous!



If Bruxelles is foolish enough to chuck another 3 billion Euros Greece's way, knowing it will be simply 'frittered away' with nothing to show for it, then the main EU cash contributers should 'freeze' any further remittances until Bruxelles can show where this money is to be actually spent.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/10/2009 09:40

IF we could try and keep the thread on topic.. viz the implications for the previous Greek Govts' support of a GC YES to Annan and wishing to see progressiveness and flexibility from the RoC govt..

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
05/10/2009 11:38

Now that RoC is a member of EU, they have even less reason to be influenced towards unification by Greece.



'Progressiveness' and 'flexibility' have never been in the Cypriots' dictionary, North or South, as far as they have demonstrated.



Does this (useless!) observation steer this thread 'back on topic'?

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
05/10/2009 13:02

6m, How important was he to a settlement ?. I would suggest not much, I never heard of his opinions expressed during these current talks !

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
06/10/2009 02:00

Message 4

' for the previous Greek Govts' support of a GC YES to Annan and wishing to see progressiveness and flexibility from the RoC govt..'



I have obviously missed something there then.

AlexF065


Joined: 07/09/2009
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
06/10/2009 02:11

I do not know all the Characters involved but from reading around my observations are this



I really do think that the split suites both the GC and the TC sides they are quite happy to be separate but the EU in its wisdom want to bring about some settlement which nobody really wants to delay the Turkish membership of the EU baring in mind that Turkey is NOT a wealthy country and the EU has admitted as few poor bail out needed countries of late including Greece

Germany is not as wealthy as she was since the east joined back to the west

France is suffering from the power of her unions

Spain and Portugal are also suffering as the common ag policies start to bite their small holding type of farms

GB is absolutely pot less from all the immigrants that come over to get the dole and the MP epences that need to be paid

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
06/10/2009 08:57

Alex,

You are on my "essential reading" list, always informative and balanced. I agree with your analysis above.



Greece have alwyas realized that friendship with Turkey is in their interest but they are restricted by Cyprus. Turkey has a similar problem with Armenia and Azerbaijan.



Anyway, judging by past experience, Papadopoulos seems to be nearer to Turkey than Karamanlis, so no loss on that count.

ismet

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
06/10/2009 11:31

re msg 9 ?



>>Papadopoulos seems to be nearer to Turkey than Karamanlis, so no loss on that count. <<



We must be taking different news feeds.. !

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/10/2009 11:39

Alex message 8, great post, which I totally agree with.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
06/10/2009 12:51

AlexFO65: Unless they're cryogenically preserving him, Papadopolous is 'pushing up the daisies', only to be replaced by an equally obnoxious 'red in the bed'!

AlexF065


Joined: 07/09/2009
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
06/10/2009 14:27

Tenakoutou

I am not aware that i mentioned any politician by name I was speaking in general terms about the need or percived need for a settlrment of the "Cyprus situation"



And stateing from my interpritations of all I have managed to read on the situation it seems both sets of Cypriots TC and GC are happy to be separated its outside influences "Do Gooders" that think otherwise

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
06/10/2009 15:19

re msg 8 I'm sorry, but I TOTALLY disagree when MOST of AlexF065 reasoning.. SOME of the points are true but have b'all to do with TR's EU accession application



The point about 'GB' ( I'm sure you meant UK) being poor - because of immigrants flooding in is UTTER twaddle. Is Cyrus poorer because of retired expats ?! Many of the recent immigrants to the UK are bringing wealth to the UK economy, and if there are so many, wouldn't they be pushing up house prices ?!



This smacks of the usual blame 'someone' when the country is in recession - and it's not even remotely informed... the UK is 'potless' for a combination of reasons - mass, illegal immigration NOT being one of them...



There is no doubt that certain aspects of CY society ( both sides of the 'divide' ) would NOT benefit from a solution - but that / they can't be allowed to bugger it up for the majority.

AlexF065


Joined: 07/09/2009
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
06/10/2009 15:42

MMMMMMMMMMMMM



I was not attempting to blame anyone

I cannot see why you are so "SOLUTIONIST"

and who is the "MAJORITY" that have had things buggered up for them?? property speculators???



House Prices in the UK you silly man how can you push house prices up any further when young couples are leaving university education in a minimum of £20K in debt?

And also All FTB's are now expected to have a 25% deposit please start and speak some sense only all i ever see from you is gibberish which is half thought out

Please put the old grey matter into gear before trying to attack what i have said GB( UK you like ) is pot less due to many things the vast majority of which i would not have had space to place on this forum you can go back to just before the second world war at least

Also i did not mention illegal immigration I was talking about all the past legal people

Frankly I cannot see why TRNC needs to join the south but do believe the isolation needs to end

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
06/10/2009 16:16

Sorry, Alex - it was msg 9 I was aiming at!

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
06/10/2009 17:08

alex



msg8 ,i find myself agreeing with everything you write .



mmmmmm



for someone who nit picks about really trivial matters ,such as ...GB and UK you really do write

so much nonsense ,sorry but do you actually know anything about britain ,s economy.



a question for you if you choose to answer ,if and i m only saying if both the tc,s and gc,s voted

and said ,yes we want to stay apart tc,s in the north and gc,s in the south ,how do you then stand,

would you welcome the conclusion .



musin



long live the kktc

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
07/10/2009 10:19

Dear AlexF065 re msg 15

>>I was not attempting to blame anyone <<

Ok, you were 'reasoning' things through..without the 'reason' bit..



>>"SOLUTIONIST" << Yep! The current status quo does the vast maj. of Cypriots no 'favours'



>> "MAJORITY" << explained above.



>> House Prices in UK << Supply and demand ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8292156.stm



>>Immigrants<< *legal* immigrants to the UK cannot go 'on the dole'.. it says on their permit *NO RECOURSE TO PUBLIC FUNDS*..You might be referring to Asylum seekers ?!



>>TRNC [doesn't] needs to join the south but do believe the isolation needs to end<< THAT would mean some sort of "solution", right ?!



Frankly, I don't understand why you have 'supporters' as the conclusions you arrive at are derived from dodgy data.. and THAT is 'silly'...



[double post] please delete the first one - spooling mistooks]

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
07/10/2009 10:24

Dear Musin M



>>for someone who nit picks about really trivial matters ,such as ...GB and UK you really do write

so much nonsense <<



Well, you just counted yourself out as a historical / political 'expert' with that 'gem'.... This 'trivial' matter has cost thousands of lives :( ... HINT - look at the first page of British passport..



>>sorry but do you actually know anything about britain ,s economy. <<



Demonstrably more that AlexF065 and his analysis - I'd worry about 'agreeing' with him ;)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
07/10/2009 10:42

Sorry Musin M



re msg 17 [part 2]



>>a question for you if you choose to answer ,if and i m only saying if both the tc,s and gc,s voted



and said ,yes we want to stay apart tc,s in the north and gc,s in the south ,how do you then stand,



would you welcome the conclusion . <<



WHY wouldn't I answer..?! OF COURSE - if both sides vote NO to any referendum, the people have spoken.



But then I have a Q for you? What would you suggest happens about outstanding UN Security council resolutions on the non validity of 'TRNC'?



I see a problem.. IF you say to GCs - "if both sides say NO - the 'north' will get what they 'want' " - they can rightly say they are voting with a 'gun' to the head..



another Cy conundrum ..

AlexF065


Joined: 07/09/2009
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
08/10/2009 05:03

Dear MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM



Spooling mistokes are a sad part of my life I do use a spell check but sometimes it does not pick it up

you see i suffer from dyslexia

so i appologise for my spooling mistookes

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/10/2009 08:35

Dear AlexF065



re msg 21



I was referring to MY spelling mistakes in an earlier version of msg 18. ! !



So, having cleared that up, can we concentrate on the subject matter, please ?

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
08/10/2009 14:38

message 20.. 6 m's. ...... 'But then I have a Q for you? What would you suggest happens about outstanding UN Security council resolutions on the non validity of 'TRNC'?'

They're not cast in concrete. They produce new resolutions. Or ignore them as others do (Israel, Iran etc.)



6 m's....'I see a problem.. IF you say to GC's - "if both sides say NO - the 'north' will get what they 'want' " - they can rightly say they are voting with a 'gun' to the head.'

So what ?...last time the TC's were lied to and misled to by the GC government and media and voted Yes.... Worse than a 'gun' to the head.



6 m's 'another Cy conundrum'

No conundrum. Bring on Plan 'B' We'll trade with Islamic and impartial Sectarian countries. Time is running out for the Government of the South ! They're the one's delaying a settlement and being obstructive as the UN and EC now know.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/10/2009 23:03

Dear Geejay

re msg 23



I don't know if you noticed but TR has been ignoring 'em [ UN resolutions ] for 26 years - and paying through the nose, accordingly.



One can't 'produce new resolutions'.. the 'old ones' have to be overturned.. Can you see China ( or even Russia) doing that if the 'rump' RoC 'object' ?



>>So what ?...last time the TC's were lied to and misled to by the GC government and media and voted Yes.... Worse than a 'gun' to the head. <<



Hmm.. please explain to us how the President of CY lied to TCs re Annan ? ... He lied to GCs.. for sure.. TR would have been quite happy if the deal went through... or were they bargaining on a GC no ?!..



"Plan B' is already in operation and failing miserably.. TR cannot afford to prop up "TRNC" at the current level.



Actually, for years it has been TR that has been intransigent - say 74 - 99 - that was due to the ECHR judgements .. TR doesn't help it's case, by signing an EU agreement POST EU accession and reneging :(

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 06:50

Morning Border,





The point about 'GB' ( I'm sure you meant UK) being poor - because of immigrants flooding in is UTTER twaddle. Is Cyrus poorer because of retired expats ?! Many of the recent immigrants to the UK are bringing wealth to the UK economy, and if there are so many, wouldn't they be pushing up house prices ?!







This smacks of the usual blame 'someone' when the country is in recession - and it's not even remotely informed... the UK is 'potless' for a combination of reasons - mass, illegal immigration NOT being one of them...





On this point you are completely and utterly wrong!! most of the immigrants from the Eastern Bloc bring nothing but their families and bleed the system..all expats who come here bring their savings with them!!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 09:34

Dear Dee



re msg 25



>>you are completely and utterly wrong!! most of the immigrants from the Eastern Bloc bring nothing but their families and bleed the system..all expats who come here bring their savings with them!!<<



Dee - during the 'boom' times there was plenty of work to go around and not too many complained about ( say ) Polish builders.. more commented about their hard work



Now we have a recession and we hear that LEGAL immigrant workers are taking UK jobs .. We are in Europe.. One can come to Cyprus and start a biz tomorrow- where EU regs apply.. it is a FREE market..



One doesn't bring one's family until one has stability.. do you see thousands of Eastern Europeans families on the streets... is there the spare social housing capacity to 'absorb' them ?! ... NO



Dee, it is a myth that social housing is easy to get, and another myth that non UK citizens get priority.



The truth is that migrants often work long hours, for less pay, and do the jobs we don't lik

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 18:00

Dee Cyprus

I agree (for once ! ) with mmmmmm.

You havent a clue about legal immigrants from Eastern Europe.

For the last 4 years I have had a considerable experience of such people who work for me on temping jobs. They work very hard indeed and are dependable, always on time and dont moan incessently.They contribute a lot to UK society including taxes.

Through my wife who is Ukrainian I personally know at least 100 people in NW England from Russian speaking nations. Not a single one claims any benefits but work hard and also contribute to the tax system thereby helping with the payouts to the lazy part of the indigenous population.



You may of course be confusing eastern europeans with those from Somalia etc who currently account for a large part of the problems faced by the Met.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 18:10

Should also add that even if someone from UK marries a non EU partner - there is NO recourse to public funds.



It REALLY is about time that there was some one in Politics willing to pick up the 'hot potato' of immigration myths. Too many citizens are venting their spleens re folk who they PLAINLY know b' all about.. :(

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 18:13

Could we NOW get back to the subject of the thread - anmely the demise of Mr Karamanlis



I'd particularly like to hear from Ismet and how he feels that Papandreou is going to be 'better' for the talks..



I guess he might mean with his previous attitude - the talks are doomed ?!

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 19:58

6m's: Papandreaou maybe be 'captain of his ship' now, but why should he be remotely interested in footling little Cyprus when his time will be fully occupied catering to Dimitra's every little whim?

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 20:20

Tenakoutou

Probably right. Does anyone really care outside the ROC

I doubt very much if anyone in Greece is in the least bit interested on what Papadreaou might or might not do about Cyprus. They will however be interested in his views on cost of living, ,unemployment ,EU enlargement, plans to get out of recession, relationship and trade agreements with Turkey.

Sorry ROC but you aint the centre of the universe as far as even the Greeks are concerned.

spudlov


Joined: 15/02/2008
Posts: 100

Message Posted:
10/10/2009 03:29

Breezyboy, message 27

I work in the construction industry and I also know a lot of eastern european workers. I agree with you, they are hard working and diligent but they are taking the bread from off my families table. I served a five year apprenticeship in the seventies and I have worked hard to earn a decent rate of pay for my efforts. These eastern europeans come in and work for less than the going rate that I have worked all my life to gain. It's twice as much as they would earn at home but half as much as I am used to. Most of the Polish guys I know are here to save up and go home to buy themselves a house or two. How does that help our economy? You say not a one claims any benefits. I know a lot of Russian speaking people too,as my wife is Russian, and if they've got kids here with them, they are claiming for them. I'm going into my fifth week of unemployment now, never been unemployed in my life.Jobs all taken by cheap foreign labour.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/10/2009 10:15

Dear Spudlov



re 32



I AM sorry you are unemployed.. I hope it will be a short-term hiccup..



As you said, the workers from Eastern Europe - legally allowed to live and work in the UK have undercut the rates that UK construction workers were getting - but they still - in the main - do a good job.



No-one was really moaning while there was plenty of work around... Now we have a recession and everybody is looking at price. Clothes / Cars etc., get made were it is cheapest - this is life. Economic cycles are also a fact of life, and UK builders used to go to Germany to get well paid jobs in the 70's ( Auf Auf Wiedersehen Pet ?) .. Don't you think Germans resented Brits going there and working for less?



'Russian' folk claiming benefits..



http://www.ncadc.org.uk/resources/publicfunds.html



This makes it QUITE clear..



Now if they are NOT subject immigration controls - granted indefinite leave to remain - they CAN claim some benefits..but to get this they would prob have a

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/10/2009 10:16

[cont] UK citizen as a spouse / partner or be a carer/guardian of UK citizen kids..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/10/2009 11:16

*ugger we are getting off thread - AGAIN..



Back to it re 30/31



I think you'll find that the new GR govt will be more keen to back up the "rump" RoC govts case.. t'old one WANTED GCs to vote YES to Annan..



Ironically, that is 'good news' for those of you who wish keep TCs isolated in the current surreal status quo.