Cyprus issue

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/05/2007 12:35

I have been thinking about buying in Northern cyprus, however I have been looking at some of the forum sites that some of the Greek Cypriots subsribe too. This GC's are angry and seem very committed to getting their properties back. In my experience such determination often prevails. What are other peoples thoughts on this?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/05/2007 13:19

ps

My moral or justification for buying (which of course is not my reason for buying) is that I am bringing wealth to a poor society which can help them to further flourish

ttoli


Joined: 24/03/2007
Posts: 1172

Message Posted:
09/05/2007 16:30

Lets not forget too, that many TC's were displaced and were forced to leave land and businesses in the south, the vast majority of those forums are along the lines of;either you agree with our version of events or you are anti-hellenic.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
09/05/2007 20:09

I do agree with much of what ttoli has said. Many Greeks bury their head in the sand and would have all believe that the bad Turks simply invaded and took most of the island in 1974. They find it hard to admit or take responsibility for the part they played pre 74 and the military coup they engineered. However if you decide to buy in North Cyprus you need to be fully aware of the implications. People may be asked to pay compensation at a later date and some people are even putting away a few thousand incase that time comes. Some of the more honest estate agents warned us that it was a possibility and from what is read no one actually knows the outcome particularly if Turkey joins EU in next decade. One thing is evident from some of the greek cypriot forums is that they don't want compensation they just want their land and many state they have made no agreement to exchange and they do still hold their title deeds. It is a very complicated issue.

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
10/05/2007 19:32

I agree guys- the main instigator of pre 74 choose not to accept what they started? Yet pass the blame onto others?



Whatever happen to love, peace and harmony??



Well with all us brits buying property, investing money and holidaying in NC now- the future looks a little brighter for everyone?

Hope so!!



See ya D

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
10/05/2007 21:15

Most of the comments you see from the GC's on those forums are from the hard liners, and let's face it you get those sorts of people in all walks of life.



I do still believe that one day the issue will be resolved, but don't believe for one second that all the GC's, AND TC's for that matter, are going to walk back into their homes and land. Too much water has gone under the bridge to reverse what has been done, and the only way forward for most will be compensation. I don't even believe the the occupiers of this land will have to pay either as this will come from a UN type central fund.



Look at it this way, if it was simply a matter of the Turkish army leaving and everyone moving back why would the united nations have gone through five versions of the 'Annan plan' which involved a bi-zonal bi-communal federation of the two sides, with the only land to be handed back being 'undeveloped' land, with compo for the rest. I know that the GC's voted against the AP, but the AP still gives you an idea of how the rest of the world views what a solution should consist of.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/05/2007 21:28

I don't think that owners will be asked to pay compensation or be evicted from their properties, but lets face it no one can be 100% sure. The EU stated that they would not be part of any property compensation packet to EU citizens who purchased property in TC as they had been warned of the consequences and the risk involved yet did so willingly. Also the ECHR recently pointed out that the TRNC Property Commission has up to now only handed back unoccupied properties. I am waitng for a ruling on GC owned but "illegally occupied property and land"

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
10/05/2007 23:35

Hi all,

I studied the NC property market , investment and political situation for about 6 months before I purchased-to understand the situation a bit better!

As we all know there are certain risks involved at the end of the day-Who knows what will happen...???



The property market in NC has gone crazy the last year for many reasons mainly because of all the EU and UN funding thats being pumped into it and the new property commision , funding and laws that have changed- supported by turkey!

The TRNC government states that any property or land that was previously owned by GCs that has been significantly improved or built on since 1974 cannot be given back to its former owner and that the GC will get monetary compensation instead!

At the end of the day it works both ways as if GCs all start clainming their land and propertyies back then surely TCs will have the right to do the same- it should work vica-versa!



See ya D

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/05/2007 01:18

I think you are right Millzer, I thnk the forums are run by hard liners. most GC's are too well established in the south and have supporting social communities which means they are unlikley to want to return home and start all over again.

Here in England I could never perceive of going back to an area that I left 10 years ago. Why should I, I have set up a new life for myself where I am now. Of course I was able to move because I had free choice. I think what the hard line GC's are angry about is that they didn't have choice. What they are really looking for is vengence in order to feel better and to give them back that feeling of control.



Can the TRNC government be trusted on it's word that property cannot be taken back if it has been improved? I wonder if they would give us signed declarations to that effect? Never thought about asking. Perhaps I should.



It seems to me that keeping ones property depends on the intention and continued occupation by Turkey. If Turkey pulled out then there would not be a TRNC government. The Gc's government would take over and would have absolutely no qualms about evicting Brits. Hey, I wonder then if we would have a Human rights case as being displaced people Guess not if we have been warned about investing in the TRNC

Of course this is unlikley to happen as Turkey is pumping money in to NC. I am not sure why Turkey is so keen to hold on to NC and maintain such a costly and large army prescence. Any ideas Why? Surely the Cyprus issue weakens their case for EU membership?

ttoli


Joined: 24/03/2007
Posts: 1172

Message Posted:
11/05/2007 16:54

i posted a question on a Greek forum about the return of lands in the north but added that seeing as the vast majority had been allocated new land in the South(similar to Esdeger),would they give up their compensation land?, an overwhelming number said No and that they were entitled to both.



i have found that most of the hardliners live in the US and Australia and dont like to be reminded of the fate of those lands indiginous peoples.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/05/2007 17:13

Thanks ttoti

I thought that they might be motivated to want their land back in the North, if their lost land was more desirable (picturesque) than their new land in the south. Sounds like they are motivated by pure greed. Wanting both sets of land - talk about 'wanting your cake and eating it too'

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
11/05/2007 18:15

Hi guys,

I think your right thats what it boils down to at the end of the day and people are becoming increasingly aware of the fact that they want to eat the whole cake! And give nothing in return!

Every country has had and overcome wars at some point in life, but you pick yourselves up and get on with life as best as possible!

They are bitter now that so many like ourselves are discovering NC and they know and are scared that this is effecting their economy in SC in more ways than they care to acknowledge!



Oh well the past is the past and it looks like NC are only interested in looking to the future!

Good on them!





Take care

See ya D



P.S- Ive seen and read alot of these debates and the people get really NASTY!

Clearly they need anger management classes....!

cypriot


Joined: 17/04/2007
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
11/05/2007 20:19

Hi all

As a Turkish Cypriot I thank all of you to supporting and investing in TRNC

My opinion on this issue is never ever going to be an agrement betwen Turks and Greeks Cypriot and Turkish army going to remain as a peacekeper.

Do not worry about your villas nobody can take them away from you or ask you to pay compo. because your not the only one investing on GC lands . So many TC `s also buying villas,apt and lands etc... I`am bulding 25 flats to rent in famagusta on greekdeeds land and not worying a single bit at all. Even if Turkey been excepted to EU which is i belive they not going to Turkish army still stay strong at the island and I don`t belive any GC wants to come and live in any TRNC city or villages next to a TC neighbour. They are to scare to live in TRNC anymore and don`t listen to what they said about coming to TRNC to live couse it`s all lie.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/05/2007 10:38

Thanks Cypriot, that is reassuring to hear your confidence.

Good luck with the building of your flats. My agent who is negotiating my purchase lives in Famagusta. If you want someone to market the properties on your behalf contact me directly and I will be happy pass on his details.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/05/2007 11:40

ps Cypriot, you could be right about Turkey not getting in to Europe. I honestly thought they would, but read in the 'Economist' last week that the Turkish military is itching to take on the Kurds in Northern Iraq. This would put them in direct fire with US troops. Not sure if this will help their EU cause

cypriot


Joined: 17/04/2007
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
12/05/2007 13:50

Hi ilovecyprus

thanks for your offer it`s very kind of you but my family lives in cyprus and they goingto manage to leting the flats mainly to the students in famagusta. If anyone interesting to let 2 bed flats short or long term please contact me

PS. they goingto be ready in sep 2007

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
14/05/2007 02:36

Hi Folks

Living in Karpas/ Famagusta area and noticing the millions being invested in infracture and mega hotels/resorts (take a look at Bafra) its obvious the Turkish goverment and entrapeneurs, hotel chains etc consider their investments pretty secure, perhaps i'm nieve, but their commitment certainly gives me some comfort. These people are 'big players' and don't make such decisions lightly, they consider government law and policy and are often privey to future plans, such that they make 'informed decisions'.

I'm sure the greek land and property claims where foremost in those considerations, but it's evident all around they do not consider them suffiently worrying or likely to hamper their plans for the development of the TRNC.

Obviously nothing is ever certain, but I feel the 5/10 year future is bright for investors in the TRNC.

good luck to you all.



regards

p

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/05/2007 11:43

Hi Pilgrim



I heard about a big project being funded in that area (Bafra/Bogaz). I believe Turkey are ploughing in 293 million. I also heard that it was all being built on pre 74 Turkish Title land. Am I wrong on this?

cypriot


Joined: 17/04/2007
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
14/05/2007 15:48

Hi all

This issue is getting deeper everytime I read. Sorry ilovecyprus but you are wrong.lands abe not pre74 Turkish title. They are all Tahsis title from the gov. to the investors and big hotel chains and the investment is about £750m. If you go to karpaz penisula have a look around the hotels at Bafra. 4 or 5 hotel complex they all 5 star hotels and biggest names in Turkey hotel chains. And thats not the only investment in Karpaz. After you past Erenkoy town through the monestry you`ll see a huge building site on your left side of the road and its about 4 km long. This is israeli/ British consorsium building Karpaz marina.Yes thats right!!! maybe the biggest British investment in TRNC and i heard that going to be the biggest marina around med. Have look at that if you drive to the Karpaz.

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
14/05/2007 16:07

Hi all,



Cypriot- is this a different marina then? Or is it port cyprium marina your talking about?



If it not port cyp marina then do you have more details or any webb sites I can look at for info?? Whats the new marina called and what facilities will it have? Whens completion due? That would be great-Thankyou



See ya D

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/05/2007 16:50

Thanks Cypriot

I know the Kensington developments (being marketed bt Savilles) are being built on pre 74 but wasn't sure about the hotels. This is interesting stuff.

I saw some drawings of the hotels when I was over. It does look pretty exciting

cypriot


Joined: 17/04/2007
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
14/05/2007 17:19

Hi davidoff

This is a different one it`s call PORT BARBAROS $83m USD project started 08/2006 and has 532 yatch capacity and Karpaz bay resort hotels has 1900-2200 bed capacity holiday resort. They said going to be compled early 2009 When I got more info I`ll post here



thanks... cypriot

cypriot


Joined: 17/04/2007
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
14/05/2007 17:36

hi all

more news about Port Barbaros. Cypriot bussinesman Asil Nadir and bussineswoman Sidika Atalay got this 450 donum land from the TRNC gov. in 1998 and sold it to Loyal and Royal Israeli/British consorsium to do this marina.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
14/05/2007 20:50

Hi Folks

All sounds positive to me, thanks for the further info.



Just one more sinpet, I've heard the Orams appeal is being held in London mid june. A positive result could help bring the greek side to the bargaining table as this would be a 'prescedent' and hopefully be end to legal process in UK courts.

There will be media coverage if Cherrie Blair is involded and if it goes as predicted it would certainly help spark confidence in the TRNC property market for UK buyers again.

Watch with interest!

regards

p