Is the Vicar Right or Wrong?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 09:59

A Church of England vicar has apologised for his rant about the rise of secular funerals characterised by "ear-splitting" songs and "bad poetry".The Rev Ed Tomlinson, said he was fed up with officiating at cremations where Frank Sinatra is played as the bodies of people with no hope of resurrection are "popped in the oven".



He said he felt "like a lemon" as mourners rejected traditional hymns and prayers in favour of a "poem from Nan" or a "saccharine message from a pop star".The 35-year-old vicar of St Barnabas' Church in Tunbridge Wells made the comments in a post on his blog entitled "death of death".

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 09:59

He wrote: "In the last few years it has become painfully obvious that many families I have conducted funerals for have absolutely no desire for any Christian content whatsoever."I have then stood at the crem like a lemon, wondering why on earth I am present at the funeral of somebody led in by the tunes of Tina Turner (Simply the Best) ...and sent into the furnace with I Did It My Way blaring out across the speakers!"Father Tomlinson added: "Once upon a time the beautiful Requiem Mass would have been the norm and not the exception in my parish.

"Once upon a time even funerals at the crem would have been sincerely Christian in character. But that was another England, a time when Christianity was worshipped on these shores."

What do you think: Does Fr Tomlinson have a point?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 10:00

What about The Rolling Stones song - It's all over now. Would that be innapropriate?

cyprusjoker


Joined: 29/08/2009
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 10:03

What about Bruce springsten, Im on fire..

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 10:19

Burn baby Burn......Disco inferno!





What a miserable old Devil Dodger.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 10:48

Hiya Bill I personally would like to see a good christian ceremony. Now though religion is not followed through in the home. However if its the wish to go to my way or simply the best it has to be respected. I can see the vicars point of view.

flossie44


Joined: 05/03/2009
Posts: 223

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 10:54

If a Christian funeral is chosen you would think that it would be politic to have a christian ceremony nincluding hymns. If the deceased and family are not believers why not have a humanist funeral? Dignified, without religion. There are also non- christian burial grounds. Simples



flossie

cyprusjoker


Joined: 29/08/2009
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 10:59

Every song is basically a hymm, god loves all music..

Smity



Joined: 14/09/2009
Posts: 826

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 11:00

Bat out of hell for me please

smithy


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 5301

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 11:17

I would prefer I did it My Way by old Blue eyes Sinatra

Not ready for the off yet )

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 11:22

RE msg 1, NoDoyen: Vicars, priests and what have you are basically and thus from the start wrong. They are echoing false fairy tales, made up by fanatics in the past.

P.S. Vicar Fr Tomlinson (Church of England) should start his own church "Traditional Hymns and Prayers". As the dictator of his own church he'll have 100% power and make more money that way. And that's what it's all about.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 11:23

Hans, what's the situation in Holland - do they also allow you to have music other than Hymns?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 11:41

RE msg 12, No1Doyen: (...) the situation in Holland - do they also allow you to have music other than Hymns? (...)

=> It's not an issue in Holland. If it's the deceased person's last wish - just do it. After all he/she won't bother you again.

scoobydoo


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 2434

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 14:06

Well, I am with Flossie on this.



I have had the 'unfortunate' experience of attending 2 funerals this year, both of which were Humanist ceremonies.



I have personally found these great if you want to shy away from the traditional church funerals. You can choose your own music, songs, speeches etc and the people standing up and speaking are relatives and/or friends who have things they want to say that are personal and more heartfelt than any stranger could say.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 14:54

Why are there 'No Smoking' signs in Crematoriums?



Richard

boglefan



Joined: 07/06/2009
Posts: 511

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 15:04

Thanks for that one Brinsley. Gave me a laugh.

Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
Posts: 1924

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 17:06

I agree with the Rev and I agree with you all - except for the comment that all music is of God! Very debateable.

But as a funeral is not a 'sacrament' within the church (marriage is), anyone can conduct a funeral in a crematorium, or at a graveside, but if you are in a church, then expect to have a Christian service - after all the chufrch has its message, and it is NOT 'Burn baby burn'. Why not a touch of the hymn 'Lord I'm coming home', or is that strictly for people who drive at 200 miles an hour!?

People these days have their own ideas of life (some right, some wrong, and not agreed by all!)but it does seem an insult to any faith to use a Priest and then bring in the secular.

Knowing Tunbridge Wells, I am surprised that it has lost its 'way' as there are so many churches inthe area - it has changed since I was there - but then so has the world. But people should still be considerate when asking a Priest to conduct a service in which they do not believe themselves.

tinker


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 156

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 17:30

Always look on the bright side of life

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 18:18

I believe that most UK Crematoriums are Council owned and run, similarly Registry offices.



They are therefore supposed to be Secular and Licenced but not Consecrated buildings, thus allowing any form of Service to take place.



I attended a Cremation service years ago where a Cross was covered over to enable a Humanist service.



Surely that's how it should be.



Freedom of choice.



Rob

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 20:30

RE msg 19, ROBnJo: (...) Freedom of choice. (...)

=> What more can one say? Aplaudable post, an excellent post!

=> But boys and girls (msg 15 & 19): one crematorium - two crematoriumS? (my caps - DC)... Oh, yeah?

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 20:37

I went to a funeral last week of a girl I used toteach. She died on her 23rd birthday of cystic fibrosis. Her coffin disappeared from view to Abba's I have a dream'



I have a dream, a song to sing

To help me cope with anything

If you see the wonder of a fairy tale

You can take the future even if you fail

I believe in angels

Something good in everything I see

I believe in angels

When I know the time is right for me

Ill cross the stream - I have a dream



I thought it was very poignant.

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 20:44

Hans message 20 - indeed. I, too, spotted this (but didn't like to say anything)



Crematoria - surely???



Regards.



J

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 20:55

RE msg 22, Jeannie: (...) Crematoria - surely??? (...)

=> Yes, ma'am.

=> Best regards, DC (hans Doeleman).

minertor



Joined: 14/02/2009
Posts: 1238

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 21:00

Only hymn for me, "I've gotta get outta this place"

I think by Eric Burden of The animals



Tony



ps That's if I go, I'm trying to opt out of the scheme, and the older I get, the harder I try.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 21:30

RE msg 24, minertor: (...) Only hymn for me, "I've gotta get outta this place" (...)

=> Have a nice one way trip - what's keeping you?

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
22/10/2009 11:06

Hans



We're both right!:



Definition

crematorium noun

/ˌkrem.əˈtɔː.ri.əm//-ˈtɔːr.i-/ n [C] (plural crematoriums or crematoria) (US also crematory)





You missed the other one though. Registry Office, or Register Office,....



Again, both right:



registry office noun

n [C] (also register office) mainly UK a place where births, deaths and marriages are officially recorded and where you can get officially married, without a religious ceremony





Rob

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
22/10/2009 17:19

its not for any of us so say what music or poems people request for there funerals



it wont be to everyones taste but i think like the abba post it would have been very moving





im having kiss me the way you did last night by the carpenters when i go



missus is having relight my fire expect the cremo couldnt get hot enough for her lol

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
22/10/2009 19:02

I've just re-read the vicars words in msg 1.



",...as the bodies of people with no hope of resurrection,......."





Is he saying they are going to Hell anyway????





That's not very 'Christian'.