Is it all the fault of the British?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 08:43

"Is it all the fault of the British?" now on http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com

Mal

Corbo



Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 09:36

Well.. might as well blame us as we seem responsible for most things..so we are told. We are like the Romans after the end of their Empire. It may take a thousand years before we are looked at in a good light by history, by much of the world. If humans survive that long, which is doubtful.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 09:57

I think it's quite impressive that we apparently still have such an impact 50 years after leaving the Cypriots to try and do better.

Mal

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 10:09

No, how can it be! The British left some years back and the new generations which have grown up over the last 35-40 years have to take responsibility!



It's easy to blame foreign influence - but the truth is that for the last 4 decades the TC's have had control over their destiny! Though it is easy to generalise as there are good people in the TRNC, by and large there are many who see foreigners as a cash machine! Be it the lawyers, government officials, builders, construction companies and yes, even the little shop on the corner the idea that the foreigners will 'pay' no matter what has been the guiding principle! You can get things 'done' if you have the 'right' connections and of course line the pocket of someone important!



Equally, those who come to the TRNC come with open eyes. The notion of what has been going on here has been in the public domain for a good number of years. They ignore the basic rule of 'caveat emptor' and are seduced by the sunshine and blue skies ..cont'd

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 10:16

Moover321 - exactly!

Mal

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 10:17

Con'd..



...which eventually turn dull and grey by all the problems which they find themselves in!



The irony, is that if the system was 'fairer, transparent and just' there would likely be more foreign investment coming here and there would essentially be a biiger pie for all to have a larger slice of the profits without scamming people.



The TC mentality seems to be one of 'live for today' and 'get what you can' be it by fair or foul means!



That is the sad part. In life it is the attitude and not aptitude which gives you altitude.



The short-termist approach of the TC's by which I mean all in government, business etc. is short-changing the generations to come.



The basic tenet of this part of the island being difficult if not impossible for foreigners is making its mark. I don't say the South is any better...I simply say that the North could and should have done a lot better as their need for doing this was greater!



I hear daily of foreigners leaving the TRNC..con'd

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 10:28

...some for health reasons but many because the TRNC 'rules and governance' has driven them to despair. But equally, there are more foreigners coming so the wheel keeps turning!



It may sound like a 'big' task to clean up their act. However, it actually isn't. It simply requires the 'will' be it political or moral.



Therein lies the problem. There simply isn't the political will and as for moral will, I will let you make up your own minds!



To keep blaming the past for the current attitude of the TC is really just a joke.



If the culture is innately corrupt - it can only change if there is a need to change. As long as foreigners keep coming and lining the pockets of the corrupt the culture is unlikely to change.



There is an old joke I hear often in the TRNC - how do you make £1 million Pounds here? Start with £3 Million!



There is an honest ring to the punchline that many foreigners here may well identify with!

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 10:38

Please do not misunderstand me....there are good TC's here as there are good people everywhere in the world. However, those who are in positions of power, influence and in business are allowing many of their colleagues to bend the rules and the legal system is too inept and practically toothless to stop any of this going on!



The next question is will this ever change?



If there was a need to change then there would be the politcial and moral will - as in many of the new members of the EU! I am not saying those countries still don't have problems especially Bulgaria and Romania. However, they have come a long way since their opening gambit to join the EU.



At the moment there seems to be no practical reason to change. Even, if as I have argues the long term benefit of change will be immense and that there will more likely be bigger and better investments coming here if the change was made - it seems that human nature is to savour what is here and now!



Unfortunately too...contd

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 10:45

... too many TC have 'made' money by doing actual very little and that way of life can become all too comfortable!



In the medium to long run there will be a 'need' for the TRNC and the TC to change their attitudes. The money they have 'made' off the gullable foreigners will not last forever and as the Internet spreads the notion of the problems of setting up here as well as the much higher cost of living then it used to be here...then likely change will come about!



It is simply a question of the 'pain' being great enough i.e. fewer foreigners coming here that will engender the desire to change!



I regret that it is unlikely to happen anytime soon!



So, if you are a foreigner coming here to live, retire, work - just remember 'Caveat Emptor'.



If you keep insisting on things being done correctly maybe, just maybe you will also set a precedence that foreigners are no longer willing to pay for the corruption that has mushroomed here!



We live in hope - but also in fear!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 10:46

as ever a great and accurate posting moover321



Just to add, I wonder if the TC's have been playing the victim for too long, so their internal dialogue becomes 'your life looks great, but mine doesnt. I have been given an unfair lot, therefore I am justified in taking advantage of you'



What I would say is that the TC's do have a point. Thye have ben caught in the crossfire for far too long, but they need to take responsability for if they did they could create such a fantastic place to live for themselves.



Going back to the article. There just seems to be so many negative property issues. It is really frustrating. I cant believe his wall has fallen down. I have heard of salt contaminated cement being used which I understand causes problems. aaaaaggghhhhhhh



And to defend the British, we laid the foundations for the modern world that most of us enjoy. We implemented some pretty foul processes but we eventually matured (still an ongoing process of maturity, of course)

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 11:08

One other disturbing aspect of the article, which I didn't expand on, came from talking to a Turk in Antalya. He was livid that his taxes were paying for TCs who treated him like sh*t when he visited Girne. He was quite a successful businessman in Turkey but in Cyprus he felt as if he was a piece of "Turk dirt." I explained that one of the reasons the French hate the Brits was because of WW2 and that maybe the Turkish not leaving Cyprus after the 1974 intervention/occupation had something to do with it. I left quickly after that as he looked like he might burst a blood vessel.

Mal

viper


Joined: 14/07/2008
Posts: 119

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 11:16

moover321



A very good posting.... you are spot on.





viper

Corbo



Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 13:13

Moover321..much of what you have said is true in the UK..the phrase Rip off Britain came about for a good reason..

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 14:01

Moover321 & ilovecyprus

You have both made very relevent and important points. Moover321, you really have summed up what is wrong with the attitude and culture that is doing so much damage to North Cyprus and Turkey.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 14:14

Moover 321

Great post ,were you ever a journalist?. You should send it to Cyprus Today.

You have combined what many of us have said in the past.Glad to see the 'clappy handies' brigade are losing ground and realism is gaining.

The article http://www.londragazete.com/yazar.asp?yaziID=5222 proves its not just a bunch of whinging non TC Brits bent on destroying the construction industry, that refuse to wear the rose tints.





As for the Brits being responsible, as has been said,how many years does it take for those countries to take responsibility for their own actions.



Look at the countries that were in the British Empire at various times and compare them with Spanish, Portuguese.USA, Dutch.empires.

Canada,America, Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia/Singapore,India,Hongkong,we didnt do too bad in what we left ,did we? Also compare African countries that were part of the Empire with those that were not.





We cannot be responsible for corrupt leaders and systems 50 yrs on.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 14:44

in msg 15 girne29 said, "Moover 321, great post, were you ever a journalist?"

North Cyprus Free Press says, do you want to be a journalist?

Mal

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 16:02

Moover 321 - thank you for such an interesting, well-written piece.



Message 16 - you beat me to it, Mal. I was about to say, in response to "were you ever a journalist?", "if you weren't, you should have been."

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 20:15

Thanks to everyone for your kind words.



No, I am not a journalist - I am a lawyer and a management consultant for my sins

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 21:05

What a load of Crap!! Lets just blame it on anyone.

Each generation blames the one before but this is taking that saying to extremes.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 21:13

"What a load of Crap!! Lets just blame it on anyone."

What intelligent & incisive argument.



Another article





http://www.londragazete.com/haber_detay.asp?haberID=5260

littlejohn


Joined: 09/03/2009
Posts: 316

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 02:34

Management!? consultant !? Hmmm The last management consultants I knew were instrumental in closing down a global engineering company with their wacky theories and their time wasting "team building" exercises. More insult than consult!!!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 07:54

Hope you don't mind, Mover123, but I've published your opinions on http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com

Mal

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 08:03

LittleJohn - Not all Management Consultants are the same Just remember when a company hires a particular MC company they do so with their own agenda in mind! I tend to work for smaller companies, start-ups and charities and I do so freelance and I have never worked for an organisation that had job cuts in mind as a part of their brief



Mal - that's fine.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 10:55

What intelligent & incisive argument



Hector



Sir Walter Raleigh brought tabacco to England - should we blame him for every death caused by lung Cancer and every death caused by heart disease though smoking.



He also brought potatoes to England - Should we blame him for the Obesity which now exixts. Or do we blame the French for inventing chips.



What about each person's personal responsilbility for what they do - THAT IS MY ARGUMENT.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
03/11/2009 11:21

This is disconcerting. Looks like Turkey is turning the screw. 63, 000 TC's rely on a state handout



http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=48619&cat_id=1

smithy


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 5301

Message Posted:
03/11/2009 11:23

What a great piece of work, thanks for sharing it with us

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
03/11/2009 16:01

What did the Romans ever do for us ?

RickF64


Joined: 07/01/2009
Posts: 173

Message Posted:
03/11/2009 16:08

Msj 27, What, apart from the roads, laws, sanitation etc...........sound familiar?

AlexF065


Joined: 07/09/2009
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
03/11/2009 18:18

Moover 321

great post and absolutely right

Why change more and more nationalities are still coming over and purchasing properties But i would caution the TC's this DO NOT RIP off the RUSSIANS

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
03/11/2009 18:45

Absolutely, AlexF065 - the TC's should, before they start their scams on the Russkis, read: 'Russian Revenge' by Irova Bolokoff!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 10:58

Geejay - We got a wall, didn't we - it kept the Scots away for a while, know it is nice to ramble over. Also the wall provides us with a great road - dead straight, up and down - good drive, especailly on a nice day (if there are not to many lorries on it)