How many more of our Brave Soldiers will DIE

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 08:06

Firstly my sincere condolences to the loved ones and families of our brave heroes.



How many more need to die in this pointless and futile war, what are our troops doing out there and what can they achieve other than to return home in a box to a hero's welcome.



I pray one day that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown are indicted for war crimes, they are no better than Karadic.

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 08:17

Maybe you are overstating your case just a tad.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/27/un-prosecutors-open-case-karadzic

http://www.gendercide.org/case_srebrenica.html

http://www.srebrenica-report.com/politics.htm

Rogerdoger


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 102

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 08:24

Dee,



Soldiers, for hundreds of years, all over the world have been sent to fight wars by their political masters, it all ways has been and all will be, even if it right or wrong in the publics eyes, the troops do not have the option to either accept or decline the order, as they have singned the oath to fight for queen and country.



I was in the army for 22 years, went where and whe I was told, and to answer any questions, yes I have been to war zones and conflicts, and seen friends killed, my son has just joined the Army and I am proud of him, and would never dream of stopping him.



I understand and respect your opinions, it's called freedom of speach.



RD

Rogerdoger


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 102

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 08:39

It's the Military, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the Press.



It's the Military, not the poet who has given us the freedom of speech.

It's the Military, not the politicians that ensures our right to Life, Liberty , and the pursuit of Happiness.



It's the Military, that salutes the flag, that serves beneath it, who's coffins are draped by it.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 08:40

Roger how very truex

smithy


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 5301

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 08:50

Tony Blair dont even mention that idiots name

and Roger how true

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 09:01

JohnW I don't think I have overstated my case at but you are entitled to your opinion.



Iraq, how many have died and for what..we went to war based on the lies of Tony Blair and the Labour Government, and now we are in Afghanistan ..an unwinnalbe war.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 09:07

msg 1



"How many more need to die in this pointless and futile war?"

Are you suggesting that there have been wars that had a point and were not futile? Please enlighten us as to which one/s and how they differed from the current Afghanistan campaign.

minertor



Joined: 14/02/2009
Posts: 1238

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 09:09

Unfortunately RD, what you say, whilst being true, doesn't make it right. Bombs and bullets don't discriminate between military and civilian. We all know how many of "ours" have made the supreme sacrifice but nobody ever mentions "theirs". How many innocents have perished "over there" to keep us safe "over here". If that's plan A then I think it's time we tried plan B, plan A doesn't seem to be working. Fanatics in UK are still trying to blow us up. Is that despite or because we're over there?

I pray to a God I don't believe in, just in case, that it's sorted before next March. My grandson is due to go then and he seems to be looking forward to it. I actually advised him to join up, straight from school as a boy soldier. They'll teach you a better trade than civvy Street, and pay better, said I. Never thought that someday someone would want to kill him, just for being "there"

Tony

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 09:15

The war may be unwinable but that does not mean it does not need fighting. In 1940 the war against the Germans was unwinable but Britain had to fight it. It seems the plan is that a deal will be done. Sadly, the right deal will only be done when the Taliban realise that they can't win either and come to terms which will include giving up the terrorists.



http://www.slate.com/id/2202046/

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 09:22

JohnW that will never happen, they will never give up and we will withdraw eventually. Public opinion is not with this war, even some of our brave soldiers wonder why they are there.

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 09:30

Dee



The Afganistan problem has many aspects. Far too many to go into on this bulletin board.



Here is an interesting place to see what the soldiers think:

http://www.british-army-military.com/Forums/viewforum/f=3.html



Of course there is the issue of the women of Afganistan. Presumably you don't want to leave them to their fate?



http://www.islamfortoday.com/afghanistanwomen1.htm



Then there is the strategic issue of who get to control the uranium deposits in Helmund where we are fighting. Shall we hand them over to the terrorists?

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 09:41

JohnW I agree, too many to go into on this forum. I stand by my original statement .

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 09:45

Well it has a point even if you can't see it. I think you need to do a bit more research and give it bit more thought.

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 09:55

Some light reading:



http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2009/06/11/interview/

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,954514,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2009/OPINION/10/28/mccain.afghan.war/index.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/10/31/agonizing_over_afghanistan_98958.html

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Europe/upload/hl_1136.pdf

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 09:58

Thanks but it won't change my opinion

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 10:06

Wow! Your a quick reader. LOL

LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 20:27

Agree with u dee. Im ex military myself and have to agree this is a politicians war and it is foolish of us to be there at all. All this nonsense about combatting terrorism is just another excuse for the government to excert more control over us. As for the taliban they are fighting for there country just we did for ours under Churchills leadership.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
09/11/2009 20:32

What good is pontificating about the dead?



If Brown won't take our lads out of Afghanistan.......we should get Brown out of No10.



A UK taxpayer,



wyn

adagirl


Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 371

Message Posted:
10/11/2009 09:31

I don't think the army is there for the people of Afghanistan, not to deter the terror threat to the Uk. Someone makes a LOT of money out of supplying the army with guns and equipment, with regards getting the army out, does the army usually back out when they aren't winning? I know the US did with Vietnam, but the face of war has changed from two opposing armies fighting head on, so to speak, to a hit and run approach, which will carry on for years because there really arent any decisive battles so to speak.



Also, I can't think of any example in the past (please tell me if I missed one) where the mere british public dictate where and with whom the army will engage?

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
10/11/2009 10:08

Adagirl



Good post! Nice to know that there are people who engage their brains before their fingers so to speak



In Afghanistan - after 8 years what have we achieved?



1. We have made big stones smaller by our air bombardment.



2. We have lost hundreds of soldiers with many more wounded or incapacitated.



3. We have killed many thousands of civillians.



4. We have institutionalised the corruption.



5. We have created more heroin for the drug dealers.



6. We have spent billions of tax payers money which we can ill-afford in directly or indirectly supporting the arms dealers and the killing industry.



7. We forgot that 15 of the 19 hijackers came from Suadi Arabia, that the plan was hatched in Hamburg and the training took place in pilot schools in the USA



8. We have created a generation of orphaned children who will be open to extremist ideology.



9. We have hood winked our public by claiming we are creating a democracy!



10. We have forgotten history

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
10/11/2009 19:59

Too many have died already! Enough should be enough!

ozankoymum


Joined: 10/01/2009
Posts: 359

Message Posted:
10/11/2009 21:19

I agree totally with that, We have just lost our Neighbour at Home James 'Jimmy' Major, 18 years young, sent to train Afgahn forces.. who are mostly heroin addicted corrupt militia.. they have been 'training' these militia for god knows how long... Why on earth do we only give our troups 'basic training' before sending them to a war zone.. but provide these men with ongoing training????



In the eighties USA funded 60,000 foriegn missionaries to JOIN the Taliban to fight the russians,



In the nineties, the Taliban took control of Kabul and imposed Islamic Law and BANNED the growing of poppies!!!



Yes they used to amputation and public torture as a form of punishment but maybe..just maybe that is what is needed to combat lawlessness, drug trafficing and corruption in a country like that... all the things that we are again trying to help instill in Afgahnistan.



Its not about trying to bring about a democratic Afgahnistan, in my opinion its about Poppies and oil.

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
10/11/2009 21:29

Ozankoymum:



Couldn't agree with you more



Oil pipelines, Drugs- and Pakistan's nuclear capacity



We funded the Taliban to beat the Russians! In the 19th Century we tried to impose order to control the spice route - we lost! The Russians lost!



We send young kids to die for something that is unlike to happen - a democratic, free and uncorrupt Afghanistan!



Just like we have created a "free and democratic Iraq" Don't make me laugh!

adagirl


Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 371

Message Posted:
10/11/2009 21:42

ok so any boy joining the wonderful effing british army join up for what? a nice uniform? 3 square meals a day? good pay? a good pension? they KNOW that they might have to fight and die!!! A fireman that says ok I am alright but I wont go into a burning building cos I might get burnt? For Gods sake!!!They are career soldiers they go where thy are sent!! They knew that when they joined! İts sad when they die but if they dont like it then LEAVE. As a mother I would be distraught if my son were in the Afghan or Iraq so called "war" but you choose to joın they are not, so far called up, they CHOOSE to be in the army. Then dont cry when they see the horror of war, you take the kings shilling...........................

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
10/11/2009 21:46

Would just like to say that I watched, this evening on the news, the bodies of the young soldiers being brought home and the hearses going through the streets of Wootton Bassett. It was heartbreaking. And for what? I don't consider myself a stupid person, but I cannot be alone, surely, in wondering why?



It brought tears to not only to my eyes - even the BBC reporter was absolutely choked.



Very moving and so, so, sad and pointless.



J

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
10/11/2009 22:13

Adagirl:



Yes, they are professional soldiers and they know what they have signed up for!



That isn't the point.



The point is that we have got involved in two pointless wars because our governments have consistently and persistently lied! To send even professional soldiers to go and die for a lie is not just sad it is immoral!



When the dust settles history will show if Afghanistan has become what our leaders have claimed it will be one day! By that time these politicians will not only be past their sell by date they will be pushing up the daisies and will they give a damn for the sacrifices made by young men and women for their lies?



I doubt it!



Yes, soldiers can leave. So can politicians. The problem is that for a decision made at 16 or 18 to be a soldier and defend Britain doesn't mean they should be sacrificed in vein for some ulterior material motive - oil

adagirl


Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 371

Message Posted:
10/11/2009 22:31

Not pointless to the men that get rich supplying guns and stuff!! They must be delighted...............

adagirl


Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 371

Message Posted:
10/11/2009 22:54

The boys that join up are PAID to do so!!! They accept that they will be sent ANYWHERE to kill and be killed!! Any mother in any country will hate the men that kills her son? And if that man that kills her son (and is PAID to kill) comes from a country thousands of miles away and for what??? TEll the woman in afghanistan WHY a british soldier killed her son?? Explain it to HER then come and tell me, because ı DONT GET İT !!!! The british PAY them to kill, the boys in afghanistan do it for love of country and religion not money or glory and that is why you will NEVER win the "war"

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
10/11/2009 23:21

Adagirl and they fat cats who get the ministry of defence contracts. Look at Haiiiburton in Iraq Dick Cheney one one tender went in for that job. Security defence catering all down to his company sand millions of dollars inviced and not accounted for. I read a sad story oday about a young soldier taking commmand to grenaide a hose where the suspected snipers. Before throwing them in the found women and children and old people there so they retreated. Only to die 2 months later. Yes man children there will be orphaned but so will british Italian Amercian kids if this goes on. In this day and age with the technology how the hell they can track Bin Laden down. Leave them to thier dope thier trades and get them all out. How much does the government pay them to be there xx Also a lot of our boys live in horrendous conditions and so ill equiped

adagirl


Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 371

Message Posted:
10/11/2009 23:55

yes Lilli but dont forget they are not call ed up, they are volunteers, They WANT to be in the army!! they Want to be in the thick of things!!! I wouldnt want my son in the army - but if he joined up ? HIS choice? And dont cry if its too tough????????

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 00:20

ada the are not volunters they are trained and proud to serve thier country. Not one mother would want it but would suppport thier chosen career. I respect and admire or young men and women who join up knowing what could be.I ave 2 neices and one nephew currently in Afgastian and all served in Iraq. My conversations with my sisters is very worrying xx

Jarra



Joined: 07/08/2007
Posts: 61

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 00:20

I am not in a position to have an opinion over the rights and wrongs of the war in Afghanistan as I have not served there or have the inside knowledge that not only our government has, but many other countries who perceive it the right thing to do.

I most certainly could not get into a Political argument on the subect the day, 6 British Soldiers were repatriated back to the UK.

What I am going to say to Ozankoymum is that I met many of your town folk from Grimsby who were present today in Wootton Bassett and as young as Jimmy was they were very proud of him and looked upon him as a Hero.

It was exactly the same for the other 5 fallen british soldiers their family and friends were also present along with many military,members of the public standing shoulder to shoulder.

Further along the 53 mile journey from Lyneham to Oxford there were thousands of people showing further spontanious acts of respects.

My sincere thoughts are with those families who have lost loved ones.

ozankoymum


Joined: 10/01/2009
Posts: 359

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 06:44

Jarra, you may have met my mum then.. she was there with Jimmys family, also Mathew Telford was in the year above me at my school.. Grimsby has really pulled together to show its respects.



Jimmy was a very sweet natured boy with a pure heart, he signed up to make a difference.



I used to believe our country would become great once more if we had a national service that young men had to join after leaving school if they were not going into further eduction or apprenticeships, to clear our streets of doleys, druggies, and the lazy layabout generation.



But now, I would never want my son to join because wars are never about humanitarian missions now (and probably never have been really) We as a nation are brainwashed by the media into believing we are fighting for a better world...



We have to wake up and realise that we are hanging onto the coat tails of USA because we would rather be with them than against them!!



I believe they are the real evil dictatorship.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 07:11

Minetor,

I have 2 nieces who served in Afghanistan and they had a great time. If your grandson has to go I am sure we will all wish him well and pray for his safe return. As with all who have to serve in the forces all over the world.

Went to the British Cemetery in Girne yesterday for the first time and they have done us proud with the memorial to the soldiers who were killed here in the 'Cyprus conflict'

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 08:28

well today is\rememberance day. At 11.11 lets all offer a prayer for the brave men and women in any conflict and to the fallen xx

adagirl


Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 371

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 08:51

Hear Hear Lilli.



But isn't it sad that the war to end all wars DIDN'T?

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 09:16

Adagirl & Ozankoymum:



You both make some very good points!



Adagirl - the soldiers have volunteered and got paid for the work. Those they have killed in Afghanistan and elsewhere also have a right to life! So your point is well made. However, the decision to go to war on a lie is what is wrong about the situation whether in Afghanistan or Iraq! That is where the sadness comes apart from the sympathy which we all have for families and friends of those who have lost their lives be they UK troops or Afghan / Iraqi civilians! But you are right - you don't have to join the army!



Ozankoymum: Yes, we are being manipulated by the press and media and the fact remains that wars are mainly fought for economic and not humanitarian reasons including the lining of the pockets of the merchants of war be it Halliburton, Blackwater, British Aerospace or Dick Cheney



We also live on the past glory by holding the coat tails of the USA! Wars = Profits in general terms!



Hope not hatred

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 09:45

Moover321



On which lie is the war in Afghanistan predicated?

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 09:52

JohnW:



The lie(s)?



1. The bombing of the World Trade Centre was planned in Afghanistan!



Evidence suggest the plan was hatched in Hamburg; the training was in USA air schools; 15 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia NOT Afghanistan!



2. That we are fighting for democracy in Afghanistan - fact is the USA wanted and wants a pipeline from the north to pass through Afghanistan - by passing Russia!



3. That this war is winnable.



More?

ozankoymum


Joined: 10/01/2009
Posts: 359

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 11:36

If this war was a fight on terror, this could be won by intelligence lead missions, in and out, job done.



Has anybody wondered 'what the Taliban want'? and why its not in USA interests to allow it. All they want is the foreign occupation to bugger off.. They wouldnt be terrorising the USA if the USA were not trying take over the country.



USA consume 22,000,000 barrels of oil a day, no other country even touches that demand, it is followed by china at 8,000,000!!!! this so called 'War on Terror' will move from one oil rich country to the next. Iran next.



Even the Pope condones a 'One World Government' to 're-distribute' global wealth. That is the purpose of all of this.

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 11:48

Ozankoymum:



Look at the geography - Iran is surrounded by the USA - In Iraq, Kuwait & the Persian Gulf, Afghanistan. They also had bases in the former Soviet republics of Uzbekistan to the north!



And where is all the easily accessible, cheap oil?



Iran next? What do you think?

ozankoymum


Joined: 10/01/2009
Posts: 359

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 12:15

Apparently that was the plan from the off.



If you believe what the conspiracy theorists believe, the Twin Towers were allowed to go ahead, worst still, orchestrated, just so the public at large would back this BULLS**T war on terror.



I was one of them, when I sat there that day and watched those planes hit, I shouted for retaliation, to protect the world from this evil Al Qieda and Taliban...



Now after and asking many more questions I believe complete corruption and manipulation of the public has occurred on the most murderous scale.



Even after Jimmy, Mathew and the other soldiers were shot, apparently the taliban accepted responsibility (so the news told us) All for the purpose of us to continue our hatred and support this war despite our men being murdered. How do we know the Taliban accepted responsibilty.. they havent showed proof of that, they are continuing to feed us.



I have now stopped watching the news because it is all manipulated crap.

NoveltyBubble


Joined: 11/11/2009
Posts: 46

Message Posted:
12/11/2009 12:31

I don't know who is right or wrong in the decision process of actually going to war but I do feel that once OUR BOYS are out there fighting for their country the last thing they want to hear is people back home arguing about them being there for the wrong reasons, etc, etc.



Our boys need us all to stop quibbling amongst ourselves and get behind them 100% and give them all the support that they need and deserve.



It makes me so proud to see the bravery of all our young lions in battle.



Keep up the good work boys.



Rule Britannia, Britannia rule the waves!



NB x

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
12/11/2009 13:34

The truth about our boys.....





http://blogs.news.sky.com/frontlineblog/Post:5da879bf-7710-479b-bb1f-fffa3b160bfb

NoveltyBubble


Joined: 11/11/2009
Posts: 46

Message Posted:
12/11/2009 13:39

Great article.



They are even bigger hero's than I first thought!



Well done lads.



NB x

LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
12/11/2009 13:45

The reason we are there along with other EU controlled nations is because America has ordered it so. Iran will probably be next, but they have powerful allies in Russia and China so America needs to bolster its strength so Has ordered that an EU president and foreign minister be created asp. We will then be ordered to send more troops to Afghanistan in the hope of crushing any more resistance before an initial strike against Iran, probably initiated by Israel . Iran will hit back and then america will have its reason to start a huge military move against them.

racoonchic



Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3223

Message Posted:
12/11/2009 17:57

let these countries deal with their own sh.t its only about the money people dying for a country that dosnt care britain isnt british any more they are cowards sending the stupid to line thier pockets

decanddyl


Joined: 17/01/2009
Posts: 792

Message Posted:
12/11/2009 20:20

racoonchic,



could you expedite your last comment "they are cowards sending the stupid to line their pockets" - who are you calling "stupid"?

kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
12/11/2009 20:55

racoonchic - as the father of a guy serving in Afghanistan, I echo that question?

If you mean my son and his fellow-soldiers, it is clear from your posts that my son has twice your IQ.

ozankoymum


Joined: 10/01/2009
Posts: 359

Message Posted:
13/11/2009 07:15

I understand the reasons for joining the armed forces and I highly commend these brave brave men.



If they were deployed to keep our street safe and to make the world a better place, they would be fighting for a cause worth fighting for.



I dont and never will support a war that can never be won, despite how proud I am of these individuals.



Your right, Britain is not British anymore, its not Great anymore, I love my country but even I recognise that it has gone down the plughole, we have no naural resources to trade, We even sold the North Sea as I understand it, with a privatised public sector and a welfare state, a nation of jobless, immigrants and single parent families raising the next generation of jobless, single parent families.



Anyone who believes Britain is still Great either owns a duck pond or are burrying their head in the sand.



The reality of Britain is its in a HUGE MESS and set to get worse.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
13/11/2009 08:45

I too add my deepest condolences to the families of our brave heroes who have given their lives in the ultimate sacrifice. We have these brave men fighting our corner, but I must add the true reasons for it, are not immediately apparent. The opposition( the Taliban ) do not appear to represent anyone but themselves( like the IRA) and don't actually fight in a way you would expect a real soldier to fight. Their cowardly tactics are designed to wreak terror and subjugate people who live within their own Borders. They wish to impose Sharia law( medieval edicts from a primitive time/ culture) and force all women to be treated as no better than animals. All of those things I despise with venomous fortitude. I do wonder if it is worth even the life of one brave young man, though, to try to prevent that.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
13/11/2009 09:40

Clarets I agree with your comments. However its the milatary who try to ensure our right to live, not the poloticians. The Milatary Salute the flag,work under the flag and all to often thier coffins are draped with the flag. I salute all the brave men and women in thier pursuits xx

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
13/11/2009 10:06

Hi John W



msg 45.



This chimes exactly with what my son has told me, after he did a 3 month stint in Musa Qala with 3 Para as an RAF forward air controller. He was frightened to death most of the time and they were attacked every day at least once, sometimes up to 4 or 5 times a day. Often low on ammo, rations and water they managed to hold out but unfortunately lost several of their number with many more wounded. My son was personally responsible for the demise of 2 Taliban fighters, both of which were British Pakistanis. From his point of view and that of his friends, this intense fighting activity is what they joined up for.

This was over a year ago and he can't wait to go back which he will do in 2010.

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
13/11/2009 11:22

If you want to blame politicians in my view those most to blaim were those that armed and funded Osama Bin Laden and the Mujahideen fight against the Russian backed Government in the early 1980's. Every Government since then has been worse and thousands have died and the population suffered immensely and overall the security position of Afghanistan and the world is worse now than then. The Taliban have also spread into Pakistan.



Whilst I in no way like Communist regimes at least women were educated and the population was far less repressed than under the Taliban.



Aussie

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
13/11/2009 11:47

Aussie.....most of the "British Pakistanis" that TRNC refers to weren't actually born in the 80's....... so to blame a regime then for what is happening now is rather myopic. It is sad that our "own" brave men are actually fighting people from "our country",who represent a terror regime in in another country,in order to subjugate its populus. Begs various questions .....doesn't it!

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
13/11/2009 12:02

Clarets



I don't blame past leaders entirely for todays British militants or seek to undermine the efforts of the troops today.



The policies of the past in focusing on communism exclusively as the enemy helped create the environment where extreme Islam prospered in Afghanistan and elsewhere. This was also a factor in the governments the West supported in the past in the middle east and was a contributer to the Iranian revolution (and whilst a separate phenomena also to Saddam Hussein's rise to power in Iraq).



Aussie

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
13/11/2009 13:23

Hi Aussie....I feel that there are areas when your views are a little simplistic,but on the whole.....I wouldnt argue about some past regimes,contributing to our "problems" today.

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
14/11/2009 15:02

Carton de Wiart said:



"Governments may think and say as they like, but force cannot be eliminated, and it is the only real and unanswerable power. We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose"



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Carton_de_Wiart



Now there is a man our soldiers in Afghanistan would love.



Take the time to read his biography. Astonishing that he had time for it all or lived that long.

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
15/11/2009 17:00

is'nt there a sleeping gas one can use where no one gets hurt and where there is an attack on the soldiers they fire the sleeping gas walk over and hand cuff the culbrats and take them in and let the world go on !!!

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
15/11/2009 22:53

Anotgher young soldier shot dead in Afghanistan.

Sid447


Joined: 15/05/2009
Posts: 141

Message Posted:
16/11/2009 17:33

Soldiers,



Aren't in Afghanistan to fight a war, they are there to keep the peace. They are the real peace-keepers of the world.

They are there to do a job and that is exactly what they'll do. There's nothing wrong with young guys going through hardship, it makes them a whole lot better as a person. More of the UK male population should have the same experience.

The problem with the Brit Mil anywhere is that they are always under-equipped to do the job thanks to the govt.



No doubt if and when Afghanistan is handed over to self-government rule there is some agenda the UK, US & other governments have to get trade and contract deals going with the country. That's life, what's new.



If we aren't tough on terrorism (and those with experience know just how difficult anti-terrorist operations are) it will spread like a plague.



(Recently returned individual from AFG)