A solution far from close!!!

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 14:08

hi guys

have read in turkish newspapers that this weekend just gone, academics and journalists from north cyprus and turkey were invited over to the south first time in x amount of years to a breifing and q&a on the procedings of the negotiations this took place at the presidential palace this was unthinkable in previous years under the previous president who did not acknowlege any north cypriot or turkish journalist not alone invite them to the palace

first of all mr talat and his team of negotiators spoke to the crowd saying that the talks in the technical committees and working groups formed by the two sides were moving quite smoothly and that the issues on which they could not reach consensus would be left to the presidents to deal with



then the south cypriot leader spoke emphasizing the brotherhood of the two peoples on the island and expressing his conviction that a just solution is not only desirable but possible and the general impression among the crowd that things may indeed be moving in the right direction grew stronger

but this all changed when the president had his q&a session he said that the talks were not moving at all, because of the two sides opposing philosophies

he said that the greeks was offering a solution based on the reorganization of the existing Republic of Cyprus on the principles of a bi-zonal and bi-communal federation with political equality of the two sides. The Turkish side, on the other hand, was insisting on "virgin birth," i.e., the creation of a new common state. The Greek side was in favor of a deal negotiated between two sides, while the Turkish side wanted international arbitration. The Greek side wanted an end to the treaty that puts the constitution of the Republic of Cyprus under joint guarantee by Turkey, Greece and Britain, while the Turkish side wanted its continuation. The Greek side was strongly opposed to the implementation of the EU's direct trade regulation with Turkish Cyprus because this would be tantamount to recognizing the existing Turkish Cypriot state

these comments to the journalists have now put a dampner on the whole thing that there will not be a solution to the situation any time soon and this is the mood shared now among journalists and most poeple in north cyprus and turkey including myself what do you guys think to this???

warm regards

ukturk

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 14:34

Not looking good Erkan, not if they can't even agree a starting point. I don't think it would be wise to negotiate without international arbitration, certainly for the overall process and secondly, for the TC's.

jock1



Joined: 06/01/2008
Posts: 3786

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 14:43

Hi erkan was reading about it this morning, it was a bit soul destroying when it got a bit tit for, ie you did this well you done that. however we live and learn.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 14:51

exactly mark how can you have negotiations without international arbitration this has happened in all situations all over the world so what makes cyprus and the south special, so basically they will say we are offering this take it or leave it and you will be left on the dog pile

and if they were trully wanting a solution why havent as a good will gesture lifted one or some of the embargos they have placed on the north or why has not the president of the south come accross to the north like talat did to visit his so called friend which they have known each other for years!!!!! makes you think do it!!!!

regards

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 15:51

Hi Erkan, the GC's intention to work it out alone might be well intentioned, but even so, with all that has gone on, I don't think it would be wise to do so. To give the GC's the benefit of the doubt, it might be too their credit that they want to cut out Greece from the negotiations. Of course, this might be a political ploy to force the TC's to cut Turkey out of the negotiations. It's not a comforting sign that the GC's still do not allow Talat to be visition by foreign envoys etc



It's a very complex situation, with no easy solution.



I pulled this from another web site Erkan. What do you think? Do you think Turkey is pulling the strings as much as this piece suggests.



http://www.toplumpostasi.net/index.php/ ... or_-_Sport

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 15:55

http://www.toplumpostasi.net/index.php/cat/13/col/85/art/1662/PageName/Spor_-_Sport

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 16:34

hi

this guy is a idiot, then you wonder why there is anamosity between the youth of north cyprus and the turks from the mainland, by the sound of this blokes piece he is pro greek (yes you do get some mate) you can tell that when he says quote '' one has to recognize that Turkey is not just an occupier in northern Cyprus'' and he want unification, what he does say has some truth that turkey does provide money with exact figures in the form of grants and annual monies but they dont dictate to north cyprus how to spend it and of course these monies do pay government officials wages, we have to remember turkey being a guarantor for north cyprus they have every right to intervine to help north cyprus either it be by security,monies in the form of aid, loans and grants if they did not how would cyprus been able to stand on their own two feet up to now without internationally being reconised and yes turkey is our motherland cos at the end of the day we all stem from old turkey we did not just appear and be turkish cypriots, on his remarks about turkey dictating too, we as normal people will never know the extent on how far they do dictate to the cypriot government so how does he know being a journo!!!!

regards

ukturk

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 16:46

I missed that piece about him saying Turkey is an ''occupier, Erkan. He also said that their are hundreds of thousands of Turkish settlers which is not true. You are absolutely right Erkan. There is no way the TC's could have survived without Turkey. This guy definately wants to allign with the GC's. I didn't realise that there was alot of anymosity beween TC and Turkish youth?

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 17:03

hi mark

there is ill tell you why firstly the cypriot youth who are uneducated from the village who dont know their history just see north cyprus has a lot of turks and i have to be honest a lot of rich spoilt turkish youth mainland turks come over to the uni's and they clash with the cypriot youth which is wrong but hey thats youth for you

thats one thing that pisses me off when i talk to young cypriots and they say they dont like turks from the mainland i say to them if it was not for the turkish army and president edcevit (turkish prime minister at the time) we as turkish cypriots would be talking greek or even worse or fathers and grand fathers would be dead in my eyes it dont make any diffrence where you come from cyprus, turkey or any other turkic country we are all TURKS!!!!! we have to fight this stigma cos the powers that be want us to be divided so they can rule us with ease (e.u, u.n, u.s, u.k etc etc)

sorry to go on militant with my words but i feel very strong about this especially about the pro greek turk (if he is a turk and not a kurd) comments

warm regards mate

erkan

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 17:58

I guess the youth are always splliting in to different groups, and they end up sparring.

The NC universities must be good if mainland Turks are being sent to them. How have they become so good, against all odds mate?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 20:50

Hi Ercan



You know from earlier postings that we wish your leaders well in their negotiations.

Early days yet, Early days!



wynyardman

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 22:45

hi erkan and all the others,



however hard I try I cannot see much in the way of goodwill

coming from the other side, they see themselves as the only "victims"

on the island in their own tunnel-vision way

it seems bonkers to me but they wait for the tc side to show them "goodwill"



as they have repeatedly stated their idea of an amicable deal

is a return to the 1960 constitution

in our view this was unworkable since it allowed one side to undermine it

and the other side to take defensive measures invoving the protection force



as I said earlier if they rejected the annan plan which would have given them something tangible, was internationally supported and was part of a process which their leaders appeared to support

until they were certain of admission to the eu,

it would be provident right now for the tc leadership to quietly investigate

a bail-out strategy I would call a "charm offensive"



unless president talat seriously plans to trot down the aircraft steps

and flap a piece of paper about munich-style (which I'm sure he never will!!!)

I would most earnestly suggest:



firstly by all means proceed with the technical committees

on condition that a full public discussion and consultation will take place among both communities before either authorities take any final decision



secondly for the tc's have a backup strategy in place should the talks "fail"

consisting of a package of measures to make life easier for the greek

cypriots, not just border crossings which are happening anyway but a raft of things that they would appreciate, provided they are not made of wood

I'm sure you guys have tons of ideas on this...

and while not kow-towing to the international community in any way

use this charm offensive to demonstrate that trnc has an equal claim to be thought sensitive and caring as the greek cypriot side



thirdly if these talks fail, make it very clear that all elements of the rejected annan plan are void including the return of guzelyurt, vouni and any new

compensation scheme but the trnc does remain accessible to a regular programme to improve inter-communal relations wherever possible



andre

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 23:20

Hi Guys,

Could someone tell me why there have been attempts to ban the justice and development party.Is it because they favour the military stance.Were they recently voted in with a big majority,

Regards,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 23:31

In all negotiating strategies both sides keep something up their sleeves.



There will come a point when both sides have exhausted their positions. that the mediators

step in with suggestions based on any common ground that has been found, throw in a few sweeteners, and Bobs your uncle.



Do not prejudge.

Do not pressurise

Do not take negative positions.

Try to bury as much emnity as you can.



Then "give peace a chance."

I remain optomistic, and wish every success to the negotiators.



wynyardman

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
12/05/2008 23:54

Hi John,

I really do admire your optimism,but as i am sure you realise this is a bit more complicated then a 2% pay rise for the white collar workers,and bad feelings on both sides are running deep to the core.Every day i seem to change my views on what will be the outcome as it is such a complicated issue.Today my view is that the talks will reach stalemate the eu will back down and the power will shift to the military.But as the saying goes tomorrow is another day,

Regards,

Paul.

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
13/05/2008 00:14

Hi Guys



Just had a BBQ and a couple of beers and me thinks at this time of night what does it really matter... there is nothing we can do about it so why do we get our knickers in a twist? I have said it before and I say it again lets enjoy what we have in Cyprus for what it is and not what it might or could be, lets face it its not too bad the way it is and if we were that worried then why did we all buy property here in the first place? Quite frankly if it takes another 34 years to sort out then so what....time for the drambuie!!!



See you later



Jim.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/05/2008 00:26

Jim,

Hope you also had haggis as well,

Regards,

Paul.

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
13/05/2008 00:29

Paul



I can always rely on you to make me spill my precious nightcap!!!!!!!!!!!!



Unfortunately the haggis ran down the burrow before i could pull the trigger.



Jim

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/05/2008 00:35

On a serious note mate.No matter what time of day it is the Cyprus issue does mean a great deal (massive understatement) to a lot of people,

enjoy the drambuie,

Paul.

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
13/05/2008 00:39

Paul



I appreciate that Paul... Just doesn't seem important to me tonight, something to do with the drambuie i suspect



See you later



jim.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/05/2008 00:43

Sleep well Jim and take it easy with the drambuie,



Paul.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
13/05/2008 01:04

must admit wakyjim has a very valid point



but it does seem disingenuous for otherwise intelligent people

to come out with all this amity stuff

by all means peace and love, in theory

but how on earth can you not keep foremost in your mind that



the tc's had a very rough time at the hands of the gc's,

(which of you guys were forced into "safe zones" in your own country?)

the gc's have one hell of a grudge over land issues

(although the most cynical would say they "brought it on themselves")



this is the middle east not the flippin' village carnival committee

in my jaundiced view both sides are **********g like crazy

partly to show their restive populations they are trying to help them

and partly to demonstrate to the outside world how reasonable they are



yes by all means give peace a chance

and I really don't want to seem patronising but

exactly whose peace are you referring to?

yes there are terrible fears and hatreds that would be nice to bury

but unfortunately they also exist as much in the present

do you think the other side would really act any better "next time"

or do you think it is a case of six of one, half a dozen of the other!?



andre