The Cyprus Issue - Things seem to be happening!

TinLondon


Joined: 20/07/2009
Posts: 171

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 00:57

Not sure if this has already posted but thought it was an interesting read - no doubt this will raise some questions.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8353712.stm

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 01:07

"Cyprus was split in a Turkish invasion in 1974 which was triggered by a brief Greek-inspired coup"



well at least they got it partly right, for the reason for Turkey's intervention.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 02:00

tony,



as the report makes clear

britain's offer to hand over nearly half the sba's has been renewed:

this as a wedding present for an agreement between the sides



there are two reasons why the offer is less generous than it seems



firstly although the roc understandably wants cyprus free of foreign troops

I'm sure that it is not britain that springs to mind in the first instance!

while britain could in the event experience pressure for all base land to go,

since cyprus an eu state is not a member of nato



secondly the renewed offer, made in good faith I am sure,

is at a time when the tide of expert opinion has turned decisively

against any forseeable prospect of an agreed deal for unification



am I being unjustifiably negative?



nope! thought in the north now admits the chance of union with turkey,

while christofias just promises tighter sanctions



hand over sba territory as part of a cyprus deal?



an appealing concept, but quite unrealistic I'm afraid

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 09:44

Probably just another way for the Government to get rid of yet more run down and financially unsupportable assets without it costing them anything and it makes them look good to the general public.



It would not be Akrotiri (25 sq miles of USA funded soil) nor Episkopi (communications issues and of course Happy Valley) so that leaves it a little open for you to guess.



I know, lets just dump Dhekalia now that the cold war has ended and we no longer need it - after all we can still go there for fish and chips even if it is no longer British soil. A quick drive around the fast decaying and boarded up base will show you what I mean! Must cost a bit to keep it running so give it back and look good.

billyboy1


Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 590

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 10:39

I dont get it...



45 square miles of land from british, what difference is that gonna make to the talks



zilch as far as i am concerned......

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 10:45

As normal, none! Too little and too late for UK to take any interest in Cyprus and the TC's. Shame they did not take any interest between 1960 and 1974, it would not be in the same state as it is now.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 13:02

Dear Waddo, re 6



if only the UK, has taken less interest in the Bases - then CY might have been independent and GCs / TCs would not have been DELIBERATED polarised by a deliberate policy of 'divide and rule' - to keep the demands for independence at bay..



Cyprus is strategic for the UK and Turkey and THAT's what has shaped things..





Dear Andre_514 re 3



As ever, you ain't too clued up on on what GCs want.. overall they DO want the British bases gone, ( all foreign troops ) ...offering a lot of the SBA land is a 'sweetener' - and was offered with Annan.. but it was no-where near enough for GCs - as we all know.. it won't be enough, now..



Property / land .. freedom of movement - THOSE are the keys for GCs

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 13:20

Hi mmmmmmm,



I have my own views on SBA's and I think any offer of giving away any of it would be like throwing a glove to a wolf.



You quite rightly say "Property / land .. freedom of movement - THOSE are the keys for GCs " They are key issues but, unfortunately, the are also key to TC's and I fear will be the issues that will cause the whole thing to deadlock.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 15:20

Dear 'TRNC'



re msg 8



As long as TR is member of the council of Europe and subject to ECHR rulings ( and payouts) I am FAR more optimistic of a solution ...



There can't be deadlock.. it was the ECHR rulings that have



1/ Opened the gates



2/ got TR to payout



3/ brought about the IPC

brightlights



Joined: 09/11/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 16:43

Marky, ECHR rulings are not binding, and no EC country has to or is forced to implement them, remember that the UK does not have to enshrine the rulings if they conflict with the nationalistic needs of the member country.

This is a fact overlooked by enthusiastic people who are pro any solution that moves the clock back towards 1974....

I think that the way things are going we are going to see the micro state of the TRNC recognised much like Taiwan is, and hopefully all claims from the south will be "disclaimed" and the North gets to lead a normal life free from the Xenophobic attitude of the South. Only stupid people would press for the removal of (now) 3rd generation settlers as part of any agreement and yet this is still being demanded, and for once the old maxim of "possession" is 9/10 of the law will prevail, rightly or wrongly.

TonyE

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 17:17

A very clever and good looking offer from the uk thats not going any where, but looks good as a press release.

winslow


Joined: 09/04/2009
Posts: 332

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 17:39

Will they pay or won't they..

http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/tcpr/2009/09-11-10.tcpr.html

barnaclebill


Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 303

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 18:31

msg 7 "As ever, you ain't too clued up on on what GCs want.. overall they DO want the British bases gone",

mmmmmm

Try asking the GC that work for the british as did their fathers before them if they want an end to the bases.Has it ever crossed your mind as to how much money goes into the ROC economy purely from these areas.The cost of this and the spinn off is growing as more troops are deployed to and from Afghanistan.With tourism,credit crunch ,lack of buyers in the housing sector down i am sure the ROC will be glad of every little EURO that comes there way. If you are ever down that way Akrotiri for instance go to the main gate and count the number of GC contractors that go in /out of there.It will have the same effect that the closure of the mines did on communities in the UK. IMHO the closure of the bases would cause great concern to the normal working man.Even cutbacks on the base has the Unions up in arms.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 20:22

msge 13



Good point, Michael Stephen in the Cyprus question highlights that the UK bases generate 60 million pounds per year for the ROC economy. With the present climate in Cyprus, falling house prices and declining tourist numbers this is probably quite welcome income. At the same time Britain would do well to reduce its costs in Cyprus.

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
11/11/2009 20:44

Was this type of offer made before in 2003 and turned down.If so why was it knocked back previously,

Grey

dougskud



Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 356

Message Posted:
12/11/2009 15:33

Having been coming to North Cyprus for over twenty years and now having our own Villa in Ozankoy I have become familiar with the history of the problems between the Turkish and Greek Cypriots.



What I don't understand is why there is an acceptance that Britain continues to own legal rights to some 45 sq. miles of land on the island of Cyprus.



Was it by way of an invasion or an intervention?



Doug.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
12/11/2009 15:40

Info here Doug - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Base_Areas



Cooper

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
12/11/2009 15:42

In simple terms the whole of Cyprus was a colony, prior to independance, i.e. it belonged to the UK.

As part of the deal to grant independance the SBA's were created and set aside as land which would remain as belonging to the UK and would not form any part of the RoC.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
12/11/2009 15:58

Actually, Turkey only leased Cyprus to Britain, a bit like Hong Cong. The British sneaked it away at the first opportunity. No sign of them gtving anything back to the Turks.

taraspring


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 571

Message Posted:
07/12/2009 02:27

Doesnt the UK still owe rent on Cyprus, but can't pay because there is no landlord ie (the Ottoman Empire)?

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
07/12/2009 09:59

In answer to #20. No, the UK gave Cyprus independance and part of the deal was they retain the SBA rent-free. The GCs, with a dodgy economy, now want to turn the clock back to patch up their public finances. Hey GCs, watch my lips, F-off, on your bike!

Geoff

Famagusta

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
07/12/2009 10:15

Troodo,



msg 19.



Hong Kong Island was never leased from China, as were the New Territories for 99 years, it belonged to the UK. Britain returned the NT because it knew the lease would not be renewed and abandoned HK as it knew the Chinese would take it otherwise.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
07/12/2009 11:39

as with many statements political, things may not be "exactly" as they appear



it has always seemed obvious to me that by understandably complaining about the sba's

which as geoff reminds us nonetheless have a firm legal basis for being there

the gc government is also taking a swipe at turkey's parallel presence on the island



again it appears from remarks by the two leaders as well as carefully-worded press releases

from downer of the un that given enough momentum a cyprus agreement is "almost" deliverable,

despite the real objectives of the two communities being as contradictory as ever they were



finally turkey's long-running accession talks with the eu even now peter on

despite a near-veto by the leading lights of the european union on turkish membership,

...now we learn soon to be "reinforced" by euro-tiddler, the republic of (south) cyprus

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
07/12/2009 14:14

Re Msg # 22: I was in Hong Kong when Mrs T signed the whole lot over to the Chinese. My boss Mr Brian Pemberton (of Cable and Wireless) was stood next to her. When she announced (I was watching it on TV in the office) that Hong Kong Island and Kowloon was also to be included he nearly passed out in shock. Later he asked her why she had given away more than she had to she replied that her advice was that otherwise they would cut the water supplies to the Colony. This was later proved to be rubbish. In any case they could have built a de-salination plant if needs be (needs never was to be). I used to admire Mrs T, until then!

Geoff

Famagusta

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
07/12/2009 22:58

message 24



surely the argument at the time was that if kowloon and the new territories'

lease was expiring anyway, little victoria island would not really be viable on its own?



the uk government meanwhile signalled to china it had totally lost interest

by denying hk passport holders the theoretical right to settle in britain,

whereas portugal felt quite able to offer full citizenship to its people on macau



finally, whatever the rights and wrongs of the hong kong debacle,

it isn't very clever to antagonise a powerful and close neighbour,

as the poor old greek cypriots found to their great cost back in 1974